It really depends. If they did it in a dignified manner and said that as soon as things got better they'd contact you, then yes.
But if it was done in a undignified way (i.e. pushed you out the door that very second, made you feel awkward or like a criminal, were unsympathetic to the hard times ahead) then definitely NEVER.
I did it as a temp job within a month of being let go. That was hard but I survived. So, I would say yes. Especially, if I had a good relationship with them.
Sure - why not. I've lost my job a couple of times over the years. In both cases the firms were well managed and their problems weren't really of their making - the economy just cratered. They treated me with respect and helped alll they could - which wasn't all that much since they probably kept me on the job too long anyway - in both cases I went for quite a few weeks without much to do. I liked the partners and the managers in the firms just fine and I could tell it hurt them at a personal level to put me on the street. But hey - this is the field I chose and shit like this can happen to any of us. It's not personal - they're just doing what they have to do.
I have - it's fine. I try to keep a pretty good relationship with former employers - especially places that were up-front about their financial situation when I was laid off. Just try to remember what the place was like when you worked there - chances are they haven't changed much.
I've never lost my job, but I have many friends and professional acquaintances who have suffered this misfortune. With one notable exception, all seem to miss being at their former firms and would go back if offered a chance to return. The "notable exception" is something of a jackass who refused to accept that the firm had no choice in the matter - he seems to feel the firm owed him a job for life, come hell or high water.
So what happened if they lay your off, your collegues all feel that you shouldn't be one of them. And yet the people your collegues feel that deserved to be laid off, and they don't?
Lay-off lists are an unscientific process and are politically-motivated to a degree. After "weed out" of people considered to be of questionable value or fit (as assessed by persons doing lay-off list), criteria for making list can vary from "no longer pursuing market sector" wholesale cuts to "cut everyone w/three years or less tenure in profession or firm" staff ranking. Expensive people are vulnerable. "Eager to help" hardworking staff members, who never grandstand for attention and take on unglamourous assignments are often safe for a long time during a lay-off period.
But lay-off choices can seem arbritrary.
If your former firm is willing to rehire you, then clearly they value you. Be frank with yourself about circumstances of your lay-off; was it dire financial situation-related hard choice, or was a senior person disgruntled with you and therefore identified you for lay-off list? For a politically-related lay-off unrelated to relative quality and contribution level of your work, or your relative "fit" to company culture, usually you already know who disliked you. If that senior person(s) still there, and possibly overruled in decision to rehire you, then you need to decide whether you can rehabilitate your relationship(s). You may decide that person will always block you.
If lay-off was purely economic, even if other "weaker" staff wasn't laid off but you were, then don't obsess about it. Feel open to returning to firm when their economic circumstances change.
There is relatively little employment security left in any profession, other than religious orders.
: I remember a downturn that took place in the early years of my own career. I was an intern in a large firm that was forced to lay-off about 20% of its staff. Those of us down in the trenches who survived simply were stunned at who was let go and who remained. We simply could not fathom how those decisions were made.
As my career progressed and I was able to follow the careers of many of those in both groups, I gradually began to understand more about the decision process. To a very high degree, those who were let go during that downturn went on to have lackluster careers, often not staying at any one firm for very long. Those who remained -- even if they moved elsewhere after a few years -- tended to have reasonably successful, if not spectacular, careers.
When one is young and relatively inexperienced, it can be difficult to fully understand the full breadth of skills and characteristics that a firm must assess in order to make reasoned HR decisions. Often, the rank and file in a firm simply don't understand how well - or how poorly - others in the firm perform -- much of their real performance may not be visible to, or understood by, peers.
While the current downturn is so severe that some really strong professionals are losing their jobs, I would advise caution in thinking badly about some of those who did not lose their jobs -- those who remain often make contributions that may not be obvious (or meaningful) to more junior members of a design firm.
I don't care what reason they had in their mind at that time, I can live with the fact that I'm among the whole team of people that get laid off. But if they laid me off before the people who deserve to get laid off, then I have a problem with that. I think it's an insult to me personally that they think those people are more "deserved" to stay than me.
Now they are kind of "regretful" and want me back because they get a new project. To me that's very insincere and they contact me simply for the fact that they can't find a guy like me in a short run....It's kind of like you get dumped by your beloved one because he/she decides to go with another person. Then at the end he/she gets dumped by the new person, and ask you to go back with him/her.
I think you're in a position where you could negotiate a better contract. they have no idea that you haven't found something already.
you're a known entity - someone they don't have to train. They don't want to have to spend time and money looking for someone new - so why not add this into your new salary figure? Figure out what your boss's time costs (time spent interviewing), how much it costs for them to post an ad - factor in overhead costs for training, and then use that number as a bargaining chip.
diesellam, I think that may be what BlueGoose was trying to say -- you may not be entirely well equipped to know "who deserves to get laid off" -- you're hurt and angry because you lost your job -- yet, some firms give seniority a very heavy weighting when making layoff decisions, or make some odd reflection on language and communication skills -- these sort of factors aren't always something one can, or is willing to, accept when on the receiving end of a layoff.
if you are that hurt and resentful, it probably would not be a good idea to return, even if you could negotiate a better deal (which I doubt you can do in this economy.)
When my firm had to lay people off, the decision was basically "Who's working on the projects that have gone belly up, who's working on the belly up projects that have the best chance of restarting and who's working on the projects that are still going strong." If you were in the first group of the three, you were in trouble. It would have been difficult to let someone go who's working on a thriving project only to move someone else over, restart, get them up to speed, etc. no matter who they were.
It would have been difficult to let someone go who's working on a thriving project only to move someone else over, restart, get them up to speed, etc. no matter who they were.
I totally disagree with this *IF* you are laying off top staff that are unfortunate enough to have lost projects while those that sustained projects are only mediocre staff.
A firm needs to plan ahead for when the economy recovers and needs to keep their best and most productive staff. I can see how it'd take some adjustment to transition a large project to a different PA or PM mid-project, but better to trim the weak employees than loose the best.
The thing is that I don't mind to get laid off because everybody knows we all are in a tough situation. It seems like everybody has a chance to get laid off no matter who you are.
But if you are telling me you lay me off in front of the people who are mediocare at best (not just how I feel, but your colleagues as well, then I have a problem with that.
I always believe you keep the talented people, who are super efficient, and productive when it comes to making the project successful. And trim/purge the weak ones out (survival of the fittest)
But instead, they keep the mediocare ones because of some political reasons. Then I have a problem with that.
Like other people said it before, the lay off decisions are executive decision made by deep thought and numerous meetings. And at the end, you still decide to lay off the productive ones instead of the mediocare ones, that's just not right.
Now they are being regretful of making that mistake and asked me back simply for that fact they just got a new job. That's just so insincere to me. So what happens when I finish this new job for them, laying me off again??
The decision is: No, I won't work for them again. I think self-dignity is priceless. If that is challenged by somebody who's simply ignorant and inconsiderate. Then I think that bottom line has been crossed.
The thing is that I don't mind to get laid off because everybody knows we all are in a tough situation. It seems like everybody has a chance to get laid off no matter who you are.
But if you are telling me you lay me off in front of the people who are mediocare at best (not just how I feel, but your colleagues as well, then I have a problem with that.
I always believe you keep the talented people, who are super efficient, responsible, and productive when it comes to making the project successful. And trim/purge the weak ones out (survival of the fittest)
But instead, they keep the mediocare ones because of nothing other than some political reasons. Then I have a problem with that.
Like other people said it before, the lay off decisions are executive decision made by deep thought and numerous meetings. And at the end, you still decide to lay off the productive ones instead of the mediocare ones, that's just not right.
Now they are being regretful of making that mistake and asked me back simply for that fact they just got a new job. That's just so insincere to me. So what happens when I finish this new job for them, laying me off again??
The decision is: No, I won't work for them again. I think self-dignity is priceless. If that is challenged by somebody who's simply ignorant and inconsiderate. Then I think that bottom line has been crossed.
diesellam - that's probably the right decision for you, but don't let this situation eat you up - move on with your life and find a place where you can be happy and respect the people who run the firm.
Apr 15, 09 6:38 pm ·
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Your former employer
Would you guys ever work with your former employer again that laid you off to begin with?
It really depends. If they did it in a dignified manner and said that as soon as things got better they'd contact you, then yes.
But if it was done in a undignified way (i.e. pushed you out the door that very second, made you feel awkward or like a criminal, were unsympathetic to the hard times ahead) then definitely NEVER.
In a heartbeat.
I don't hold my former employer responsible for the fact that clients went belly up and projects were cancelled.
I have before. It wasn't a problem.
This is REALLY awkward if you were self-employed.
Definitely...I could (& have) bike to work so if they offer, and they had steady work, I'm there...Like citizen, I don't blame them for client issues
I did it as a temp job within a month of being let go. That was hard but I survived. So, I would say yes. Especially, if I had a good relationship with them.
Sure - why not. I've lost my job a couple of times over the years. In both cases the firms were well managed and their problems weren't really of their making - the economy just cratered. They treated me with respect and helped alll they could - which wasn't all that much since they probably kept me on the job too long anyway - in both cases I went for quite a few weeks without much to do. I liked the partners and the managers in the firms just fine and I could tell it hurt them at a personal level to put me on the street. But hey - this is the field I chose and shit like this can happen to any of us. It's not personal - they're just doing what they have to do.
I have - it's fine. I try to keep a pretty good relationship with former employers - especially places that were up-front about their financial situation when I was laid off. Just try to remember what the place was like when you worked there - chances are they haven't changed much.
I've never lost my job, but I have many friends and professional acquaintances who have suffered this misfortune. With one notable exception, all seem to miss being at their former firms and would go back if offered a chance to return. The "notable exception" is something of a jackass who refused to accept that the firm had no choice in the matter - he seems to feel the firm owed him a job for life, come hell or high water.
A lot of interesting responses....
So what happened if they lay your off, your collegues all feel that you shouldn't be one of them. And yet the people your collegues feel that deserved to be laid off, and they don't?
Im in that boat Diesellam ...and when I think about it ..I dont think I would go back
Lay-off lists are an unscientific process and are politically-motivated to a degree. After "weed out" of people considered to be of questionable value or fit (as assessed by persons doing lay-off list), criteria for making list can vary from "no longer pursuing market sector" wholesale cuts to "cut everyone w/three years or less tenure in profession or firm" staff ranking. Expensive people are vulnerable. "Eager to help" hardworking staff members, who never grandstand for attention and take on unglamourous assignments are often safe for a long time during a lay-off period.
But lay-off choices can seem arbritrary.
If your former firm is willing to rehire you, then clearly they value you. Be frank with yourself about circumstances of your lay-off; was it dire financial situation-related hard choice, or was a senior person disgruntled with you and therefore identified you for lay-off list? For a politically-related lay-off unrelated to relative quality and contribution level of your work, or your relative "fit" to company culture, usually you already know who disliked you. If that senior person(s) still there, and possibly overruled in decision to rehire you, then you need to decide whether you can rehabilitate your relationship(s). You may decide that person will always block you.
If lay-off was purely economic, even if other "weaker" staff wasn't laid off but you were, then don't obsess about it. Feel open to returning to firm when their economic circumstances change.
There is relatively little employment security left in any profession, other than religious orders.
: I remember a downturn that took place in the early years of my own career. I was an intern in a large firm that was forced to lay-off about 20% of its staff. Those of us down in the trenches who survived simply were stunned at who was let go and who remained. We simply could not fathom how those decisions were made.
As my career progressed and I was able to follow the careers of many of those in both groups, I gradually began to understand more about the decision process. To a very high degree, those who were let go during that downturn went on to have lackluster careers, often not staying at any one firm for very long. Those who remained -- even if they moved elsewhere after a few years -- tended to have reasonably successful, if not spectacular, careers.
When one is young and relatively inexperienced, it can be difficult to fully understand the full breadth of skills and characteristics that a firm must assess in order to make reasoned HR decisions. Often, the rank and file in a firm simply don't understand how well - or how poorly - others in the firm perform -- much of their real performance may not be visible to, or understood by, peers.
While the current downturn is so severe that some really strong professionals are losing their jobs, I would advise caution in thinking badly about some of those who did not lose their jobs -- those who remain often make contributions that may not be obvious (or meaningful) to more junior members of a design firm.
bluegoose - that mostly only applies to large firms. with smaller firms it gets more complicated.
I don't care what reason they had in their mind at that time, I can live with the fact that I'm among the whole team of people that get laid off. But if they laid me off before the people who deserve to get laid off, then I have a problem with that. I think it's an insult to me personally that they think those people are more "deserved" to stay than me.
Now they are kind of "regretful" and want me back because they get a new project. To me that's very insincere and they contact me simply for the fact that they can't find a guy like me in a short run....It's kind of like you get dumped by your beloved one because he/she decides to go with another person. Then at the end he/she gets dumped by the new person, and ask you to go back with him/her.
I think you're in a position where you could negotiate a better contract. they have no idea that you haven't found something already.
you're a known entity - someone they don't have to train. They don't want to have to spend time and money looking for someone new - so why not add this into your new salary figure? Figure out what your boss's time costs (time spent interviewing), how much it costs for them to post an ad - factor in overhead costs for training, and then use that number as a bargaining chip.
geesh - it's a business...
-- hmmm, an interesting concept.
diesellam, I think that may be what BlueGoose was trying to say -- you may not be entirely well equipped to know "who deserves to get laid off" -- you're hurt and angry because you lost your job -- yet, some firms give seniority a very heavy weighting when making layoff decisions, or make some odd reflection on language and communication skills -- these sort of factors aren't always something one can, or is willing to, accept when on the receiving end of a layoff.
if you are that hurt and resentful, it probably would not be a good idea to return, even if you could negotiate a better deal (which I doubt you can do in this economy.)
When my firm had to lay people off, the decision was basically "Who's working on the projects that have gone belly up, who's working on the belly up projects that have the best chance of restarting and who's working on the projects that are still going strong." If you were in the first group of the three, you were in trouble. It would have been difficult to let someone go who's working on a thriving project only to move someone else over, restart, get them up to speed, etc. no matter who they were.
I totally disagree with this *IF* you are laying off top staff that are unfortunate enough to have lost projects while those that sustained projects are only mediocre staff.
A firm needs to plan ahead for when the economy recovers and needs to keep their best and most productive staff. I can see how it'd take some adjustment to transition a large project to a different PA or PM mid-project, but better to trim the weak employees than loose the best.
Aquapura - you are right. I was strictly talking about production people.
The thing is that I don't mind to get laid off because everybody knows we all are in a tough situation. It seems like everybody has a chance to get laid off no matter who you are.
But if you are telling me you lay me off in front of the people who are mediocare at best (not just how I feel, but your colleagues as well, then I have a problem with that.
I always believe you keep the talented people, who are super efficient, and productive when it comes to making the project successful. And trim/purge the weak ones out (survival of the fittest)
But instead, they keep the mediocare ones because of some political reasons. Then I have a problem with that.
Like other people said it before, the lay off decisions are executive decision made by deep thought and numerous meetings. And at the end, you still decide to lay off the productive ones instead of the mediocare ones, that's just not right.
Now they are being regretful of making that mistake and asked me back simply for that fact they just got a new job. That's just so insincere to me. So what happens when I finish this new job for them, laying me off again??
The decision is: No, I won't work for them again. I think self-dignity is priceless. If that is challenged by somebody who's simply ignorant and inconsiderate. Then I think that bottom line has been crossed.
The thing is that I don't mind to get laid off because everybody knows we all are in a tough situation. It seems like everybody has a chance to get laid off no matter who you are.
But if you are telling me you lay me off in front of the people who are mediocare at best (not just how I feel, but your colleagues as well, then I have a problem with that.
I always believe you keep the talented people, who are super efficient, responsible, and productive when it comes to making the project successful. And trim/purge the weak ones out (survival of the fittest)
But instead, they keep the mediocare ones because of nothing other than some political reasons. Then I have a problem with that.
Like other people said it before, the lay off decisions are executive decision made by deep thought and numerous meetings. And at the end, you still decide to lay off the productive ones instead of the mediocare ones, that's just not right.
Now they are being regretful of making that mistake and asked me back simply for that fact they just got a new job. That's just so insincere to me. So what happens when I finish this new job for them, laying me off again??
The decision is: No, I won't work for them again. I think self-dignity is priceless. If that is challenged by somebody who's simply ignorant and inconsiderate. Then I think that bottom line has been crossed.
diesellam - that's probably the right decision for you, but don't let this situation eat you up - move on with your life and find a place where you can be happy and respect the people who run the firm.
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