since when does a licensed architect with 7-years of experience command a materially higher salary than an unlicensed arch. grad with 7-years of comparable experience?
i see this sort of thing on job boards all the time ... i think it reflects the reality that a large proportion of the profession no longer has much interest in obtaining the license.
Yeah, in planning... the breakdown is usually something like... junior -> associate -> planner 1 -> planner 2 -> et 3 -> et 4 -> master planner -> commissioner.
I like it because it has an air of aristocratic titles like you'd find in magistrates.
But lately, I've been applying for jobs that are like "assistant junior associate," or "planner 4 intern." It boggles my mind. I've run across a few other positions like "assistant jr. master planner."
But one problem with planning is to be a "junior associate peer planner assistant intern," you still need a masters with 2 years.
It's just someone who has a lot of experience but isn't licenced -- particularly a youngish individual.
This firm is probably like a lot of other firms out there that were still busy but just dint have any money for payroll. They probably laid off a lot of people but since they still have their projects, they need someone experienced but cheap to work.
um... how exactly am I supposed to cater my cover letter and work samples to apply for this job if I have no idea who you are and what you do? I mean, were architects, not CIA agents, so it's not like the work we do is top secret or anything.
hmm, I'm guessing maybe the "ambitious little office" may not be licensed, and thus don't want things to get hairy hiring a licensed architect, which is illegal I think? don't worry, i'm sure they'll get dozens of applications from licensed architects.
is it legal to use the term 'architect' for a job title if they don't want a licensed architect? they're advertising for a 'project architect/senior intern architect'.
i don't think they want a licensed architect, either, just wondering if technically they can use that term (even though we all know what 'project architect' means).
and what would the legal situation be if a licensed architect joined an unlicensed firm - and didn't want to stamp/sign drawings. i think we talked about this in the past and i believe a licensed architect would be liable even if drawings aren't stamped and signed. i should know all this, but ..
Isn't an "Intern Architect" someone who has completed a B.Arch or M.Arch, but is still in the process of getting licensed? I see jobs posted before for Intern Architects, I assume Architectural Interns are for people without and accredited degree.
i agree - that's my understanding, too (intern architect is someone with an architectural degree and not licensed).
so a company can advertise for an 'intern architect' with the intent of getting a non-licensed person yet once you get the job you can't legally call yourself an 'intern architect'?
i'm just wondering because in california the state architect's board is very picky about the use of architect, architectural, etc.
Maybe they should crack down on all the ads I see for IT Architects, Solutions Architects, Network Architects, blah blah. I went to architecture school, and all those bozos can call themselves Architects and I can't? Pfft. Hell I'm just gonna start writing Apprentice Architect or Level I Architect on all my resumes...leave the stamping drawings up to the Level IV Architects.
"what would the legal situation be if a licensed architect joined an unlicensed firm ?"
What is an "unlicensed firm"?
While firms must be qualified by various jurisdictions to provide professional services in those jurisdictions, to the best of my knowledge only individuals can be "licensed" as architects.
Each state sets its own standards regarding the proportion of the firm's owners who must hold a license in that state for the firm to be qualified to practice in that state. Without meeting those qualifications, the firm cannot practice in that state, no matter how many licensed architects may be employed by the firm.
"Maybe they should crack down on all the ads I see for IT Architects, Solutions Architects, Network Architects, blah blah."
Milwaukee, I've written several nasty letters to quite a few professional organizations about the advertisements of entry-level jobs. I even sent one of them a excel spreadsheet outlining the 120 something jobs advertised in the previous two months that not a single of these 'entry-level' jobs were, in fact, entry-level jobs. It makes it especially hard when I know I already have a slim-to-none chance of getting into the planning profession but the fact that I've probably spent a grand just this year applying to bogus jobs that don't either exist or are really for more experienced people.
It came out to costing them $26,000 dollars in lost ad revenue plus the cost of young people losing all respect for an industry that refuses to do anything with them or for them in terms of all this bullshit they spout off about the importance of accepting new generations.
I got an e-mail back saying basically nothing in lime green and purple font colors. It kind of made me want to hang myself.
Intern Architect, the title is based on the old style apprenticeship in architectural firms, I guess before the NAAB accredit system established, typically. I guess it is not appropriate to offer someone this title once he earned his professional degree in architecture.
Milwaukee08's title system is clear and better - if this is a national wide standard that would be easier to identify someone's qualification.
"A person currently employed under the responsible control of an architect and who maintains in good standing a National Council of Architectural Registration Boards Record may use the title “intern architect” or “architectural intern” in conjunction with his/her current employment, but may not engage in the practice of architecture except to the extent that such practice is excepted from the requirement of registration."
Architect/designer I: Recently licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with 3-5 years of experience; responsible for particular parts of a project within parameters set by others.
Architect/designer II: Licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with 6-8 years of experience; responsible for daily design or technical development of project.
Architect/designer III: Licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with 8-10 years of experience; responsible for significant aspects of projects.
Senior architect/designer: Licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with more than 10 years of experience; has a design or technical focus and is responsible for significant project activities.
Project manager: Licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with more than 10 years of experience, has overall project management responsibility for a variety of projects or project teams, including client contact, scheduling, and budgeting.
These are obviously general definitions that will more or less describe positions depending on a specific office culture and size.
Apr 4, 09 12:30 pm ·
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silly job description
WTF is a senior intern architect?
if there was ever an oxymoron job title, then this is it.
http://archinect.com/jobs/description.php?id=87239_0_30_0_C
I think I'm a senior intern architect. I've been an intern for a long time.
woops, it is a great title! I would love to put it on my cv 5 yrs ago
i think that this translates as...
"we want someone who is experience and know what they are doing, but we don't want to have to pay the salary of a licensed architect."
Bingo, architphil!
The entire ad in three words...
since when does a licensed architect with 7-years of experience command a materially higher salary than an unlicensed arch. grad with 7-years of comparable experience?
i see this sort of thing on job boards all the time ... i think it reflects the reality that a large proportion of the profession no longer has much interest in obtaining the license.
that's a pretty silly job description, but I think this one tops it.
Yeah, in planning... the breakdown is usually something like... junior -> associate -> planner 1 -> planner 2 -> et 3 -> et 4 -> master planner -> commissioner.
I like it because it has an air of aristocratic titles like you'd find in magistrates.
But lately, I've been applying for jobs that are like "assistant junior associate," or "planner 4 intern." It boggles my mind. I've run across a few other positions like "assistant jr. master planner."
But one problem with planning is to be a "junior associate peer planner assistant intern," you still need a masters with 2 years.
i applied for the senior intern architect!
hire me, ambitious little office!
(and i believe they used the term 'intern' because it currently is a temporary/part time/contract position)
It's just someone who has a lot of experience but isn't licenced -- particularly a youngish individual.
This firm is probably like a lot of other firms out there that were still busy but just dint have any money for payroll. They probably laid off a lot of people but since they still have their projects, they need someone experienced but cheap to work.
i find things like this even more annoying:
"Ambitious Little West LA Design Office"
um... how exactly am I supposed to cater my cover letter and work samples to apply for this job if I have no idea who you are and what you do? I mean, were architects, not CIA agents, so it's not like the work we do is top secret or anything.
be creative .._. ..__._. _._ !!
They are still going to get about 800 applications for this one position.
no matter what the bullshit job is called, i'd take any job for at least 24k a year.
Hell, I don't care if they call me senior assclown, as long as I can finally make more than 15k a year.
hmm, I'm guessing maybe the "ambitious little office" may not be licensed, and thus don't want things to get hairy hiring a licensed architect, which is illegal I think? don't worry, i'm sure they'll get dozens of applications from licensed architects.
is it legal to use the term 'architect' for a job title if they don't want a licensed architect? they're advertising for a 'project architect/senior intern architect'.
i don't think they want a licensed architect, either, just wondering if technically they can use that term (even though we all know what 'project architect' means).
and what would the legal situation be if a licensed architect joined an unlicensed firm - and didn't want to stamp/sign drawings. i think we talked about this in the past and i believe a licensed architect would be liable even if drawings aren't stamped and signed. i should know all this, but ..
Isn't an "Intern Architect" someone who has completed a B.Arch or M.Arch, but is still in the process of getting licensed? I see jobs posted before for Intern Architects, I assume Architectural Interns are for people without and accredited degree.
i agree - that's my understanding, too (intern architect is someone with an architectural degree and not licensed).
so a company can advertise for an 'intern architect' with the intent of getting a non-licensed person yet once you get the job you can't legally call yourself an 'intern architect'?
i'm just wondering because in california the state architect's board is very picky about the use of architect, architectural, etc.
Maybe they should crack down on all the ads I see for IT Architects, Solutions Architects, Network Architects, blah blah. I went to architecture school, and all those bozos can call themselves Architects and I can't? Pfft. Hell I'm just gonna start writing Apprentice Architect or Level I Architect on all my resumes...leave the stamping drawings up to the Level IV Architects.
Level I Architect: Undergraduate degree in architecture
Level II Architect: M.Arch or B.Arch degree in architecture
Level III Architect: Attained a license to stamp drawings
Level IV Architect: 10+ years of being licensed
etc.
What is an "unlicensed firm"?
While firms must be qualified by various jurisdictions to provide professional services in those jurisdictions, to the best of my knowledge only individuals can be "licensed" as architects.
Each state sets its own standards regarding the proportion of the firm's owners who must hold a license in that state for the firm to be qualified to practice in that state. Without meeting those qualifications, the firm cannot practice in that state, no matter how many licensed architects may be employed by the firm.
"Maybe they should crack down on all the ads I see for IT Architects, Solutions Architects, Network Architects, blah blah."
Milwaukee, I've written several nasty letters to quite a few professional organizations about the advertisements of entry-level jobs. I even sent one of them a excel spreadsheet outlining the 120 something jobs advertised in the previous two months that not a single of these 'entry-level' jobs were, in fact, entry-level jobs. It makes it especially hard when I know I already have a slim-to-none chance of getting into the planning profession but the fact that I've probably spent a grand just this year applying to bogus jobs that don't either exist or are really for more experienced people.
It came out to costing them $26,000 dollars in lost ad revenue plus the cost of young people losing all respect for an industry that refuses to do anything with them or for them in terms of all this bullshit they spout off about the importance of accepting new generations.
I got an e-mail back saying basically nothing in lime green and purple font colors. It kind of made me want to hang myself.
file - by 'unlicensed firm' i mean a design firm that has no licensed architects
Intern Architect, the title is based on the old style apprenticeship in architectural firms, I guess before the NAAB accredit system established, typically. I guess it is not appropriate to offer someone this title once he earned his professional degree in architecture.
Milwaukee08's title system is clear and better - if this is a national wide standard that would be easier to identify someone's qualification.
eCoDe, per NCARB model law:
"A person currently employed under the responsible control of an architect and who maintains in good standing a National Council of Architectural Registration Boards Record may use the title “intern architect” or “architectural intern” in conjunction with his/her current employment, but may not engage in the practice of architecture except to the extent that such practice is excepted from the requirement of registration."
Milwaukee08, per AIA 2005 compensation report:
Entry-level Intern
Second-year Intern
Third-year Intern
Architect/designer I: Recently licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with 3-5 years of experience; responsible for particular parts of a project within parameters set by others.
Architect/designer II: Licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with 6-8 years of experience; responsible for daily design or technical development of project.
Architect/designer III: Licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with 8-10 years of experience; responsible for significant aspects of projects.
Senior architect/designer: Licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with more than 10 years of experience; has a design or technical focus and is responsible for significant project activities.
Project manager: Licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with more than 10 years of experience, has overall project management responsibility for a variety of projects or project teams, including client contact, scheduling, and budgeting.
These are obviously general definitions that will more or less describe positions depending on a specific office culture and size.
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