I've been looking for some extra work and finally found something! I've been asked to draw up a residential "sun room" for submission to the county for building permits but I have some questions... what needs to be included in this type of drawing... obviously, worked out plans, sections, elevations and details such as foundations but what else? Do i need to go so far as to create a mini-CD set and specs?
Making the drawings is the easy part... it's the procedural stuff that's a blind spot for me.
you can always do a quick site plan sketch showing what is proposed and take that to the planning/building department.
ask them what the submittal process involves and sometimes they will even have a list of what they require (site plan: showing existing and proposed, property lines, setbacks, blah blah blah ..)
you also want to make sure what is proposed is allowed. probably no problem to do a little sun room but there could be lot coverage issues or homeowner's association issues (if you're unlucky enough to be in a homeowner's association).
Frac,
you will need (depending on the buidling dept. of course)
- site plan which would include all the setbacks, easements and of course dimensions, showing the entire property, adjecent property, existing building on the site and of course the new additions
- foundation plan with dimensions
- floor plan of course with dimensions
- typical section
- since it is a simple addition you should just include electrical outlets and any electrical work, hvac and plumbing on your floor plans
- and of course sections with building heights etc.
so yes, you are creating a mini set...but this should probably fit all on one 24x36 depending on the size of the addition, but I've done many of these and its usually just one sheet....
as far as spects, they are usually not requried for this kind of submission but then again if you are using pre eng trusses etc. the city or county or whoeever could require that, which can be obtained from teh manufacturer.
Yes, give them a mini CD set. As much detail as possible.
Show location of existing or relocated utilities on plat f survey.
Might need a panel schedule.
you will not need a panel schedule because he is not using a new panel, but you can indicate on the new floor plan to "rewire new electrical equipment to existing panel as required"
i'm not the one doing the project. of course you will need plans, sections, elevations, details, general electrical plan to get a building permit but the first thing cowgill should do is check with the governmental agency to see if the proposed addition is allowed and what the procedure is. this could be done online but sometimes it's most efficient to head on down and talk to a planner and like i said a lot of building departments have handouts that go over what is required.
as cowgill said 'it's the procedural stuff that's a blind spot for me' so going to the building department would clear up the procedure a lot better than us telling what drawings are required.
Sorry Frac,
you are absolutely right, and most of the time they do have the requirements online or you can even call the agency. It would be worth doign that because sometimes you will need to go through different neighborhood commissions and historical organizations in order to get the project approved before it even moves to the building department for approval....
"you will not need a panel schedule because he is not using a new panel, but you can indicate on the new floor plan to "rewire new electrical equipment to existing panel as required""
Sometimes a new panel is not required for the city or village to ask for it. Maybe I don't know what I am talking about. I'm just a plans examiner and our electrical inspector likes to see panel schedules during his review to make sure their is room for expansion. I think he will also accept, on small projects, a written description stating how many open slots left.
On the fence,
and that is usually the case, because cowgill already mentioned what kind of project it is I personally would not bother with it and would try to go the simples way with minimal work, after, of course, verification of the existing panel and current loads and new loads added to the room.
Not to pick on you but....."I personally would not bother with it and would try to go the simples way with minimal work," I find this to be the problem now as a plans examiner. Far too many people want to do the minimum amount of work. They then submit it to me. I have to go over it and write up my review. I just did a sunroom yesterday. I had 17 comments on it. Originally when I looked at this train wreck of a submittal I was going to tell the person to hire a licensed professional. Instead I did the review and 17 comments later I sent it off to the electrical inspector for his review. I can only imagine what the total amount of comments is going to be.
Please, people, just do it correctly the first time so I don't have to look like I am nitpicking your project. On top of it, when we send the letter out to you, the design professional, and one letter to the home owner, you will look fairly incompetent to the homeowner. Lets put the meaning of professional back into the term architect.
Its not about being incompetent, but its about saving money to the client and they would rather try to do it cheap than right. And as a professional you would never have the correction letter sent to the client. And I'm really curious what these 17 comments are if it is only a sunroom. Then we all wonder why people try to go around, do their renovations without even goign to the building department.
I can tell you as fact, we send one letter to the design professional/designer and one to the home owner. No way out of it here. But you will save yourself more money if you do this correctly the first time around. The second time you do it, it will take less time to design and it will possibly take less tim to get through the review especially if you do not have to go through a second review or third. You can of course charge the same amount for this the second or third time around too.
Some of my comments for the sunroom. (Generalized) You really need to see the chicken scratch cd's I looked at to appreciate this.
Locate the addition, on the plat of survey, so that it is not encroaching the side yard setbacks.
Provide window r.o. widths and heights.
Provide header sizes.
What is the wall sheathing material?
Provide roof felt under shingles.
Show flashing as required.
8 1/4" riser heights are not allowed on the steps. A max. 7 3/4" shall be used.
What is the roof decking material? Provide information on edge support.
What size is the header that carries the roof load over the existing stairs.
Provide roof truss drawings.
So on and so forth. Looks like the electrical inspector has about 5 comments.
You are absolutely right. This correction letter would get somebody fired at an architects office, but I'm assuming this was done by a contractor or the owner himself from your statement that it is chicken scratches and from the abundance of common knowledge information an architect would include in a simple set. I'm sick and tired of everybody trying to play architect which makes us underpaid professionals we are today.
You have that correct. Unfortunatly I have to accept these plans and until I can prove they do not have enough knowledge, do the review. This one was done by some small, don't really care, contractor. I won't give out the name but he does small jobs like this. Most architects I've dealt with do the plans pretty professionally but I have had a few sets come in that made me ashamed of my profession, knowing that I'd have to let the inspectors see that crapola and with the knowledge that I am an architect as well. I have also told one person so far, after their first submittal, that I would not do a review for them and that they were required to get a licensed professional. They asked what was wrong. I told them that for me to tell them what was wrong, I'd have to do the design for them. Go get a licensed professional.
We need to get the states to support architects or some sort of licensed design professional outside of arhcitects and engineers. I'm tired of looking at the sets that come in from unlicensed "designers" and contractors. Sure some are pretty good/ok but usually I have to accept some really crappy submitals. These tend to take a lot of my time and I end up giving them the information/design which I am not supposed to do.
Mar 31, 09 3:24 pm ·
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what to submit for approval
I've been looking for some extra work and finally found something! I've been asked to draw up a residential "sun room" for submission to the county for building permits but I have some questions... what needs to be included in this type of drawing... obviously, worked out plans, sections, elevations and details such as foundations but what else? Do i need to go so far as to create a mini-CD set and specs?
Making the drawings is the easy part... it's the procedural stuff that's a blind spot for me.
thanks for any input!
Start with a site plan for the planning department.
you can always do a quick site plan sketch showing what is proposed and take that to the planning/building department.
ask them what the submittal process involves and sometimes they will even have a list of what they require (site plan: showing existing and proposed, property lines, setbacks, blah blah blah ..)
you also want to make sure what is proposed is allowed. probably no problem to do a little sun room but there could be lot coverage issues or homeowner's association issues (if you're unlucky enough to be in a homeowner's association).
Frac,
you will need (depending on the buidling dept. of course)
- site plan which would include all the setbacks, easements and of course dimensions, showing the entire property, adjecent property, existing building on the site and of course the new additions
- foundation plan with dimensions
- floor plan of course with dimensions
- typical section
- since it is a simple addition you should just include electrical outlets and any electrical work, hvac and plumbing on your floor plans
- and of course sections with building heights etc.
so yes, you are creating a mini set...but this should probably fit all on one 24x36 depending on the size of the addition, but I've done many of these and its usually just one sheet....
as far as spects, they are usually not requried for this kind of submission but then again if you are using pre eng trusses etc. the city or county or whoeever could require that, which can be obtained from teh manufacturer.
hope this helps
Yes, give them a mini CD set. As much detail as possible.
Show location of existing or relocated utilities on plat f survey.
Might need a panel schedule.
you will not need a panel schedule because he is not using a new panel, but you can indicate on the new floor plan to "rewire new electrical equipment to existing panel as required"
sorry I meant elevations with buildign heights
hey poop,
i'm not the one doing the project. of course you will need plans, sections, elevations, details, general electrical plan to get a building permit but the first thing cowgill should do is check with the governmental agency to see if the proposed addition is allowed and what the procedure is. this could be done online but sometimes it's most efficient to head on down and talk to a planner and like i said a lot of building departments have handouts that go over what is required.
as cowgill said 'it's the procedural stuff that's a blind spot for me' so going to the building department would clear up the procedure a lot better than us telling what drawings are required.
Sorry Frac,
you are absolutely right, and most of the time they do have the requirements online or you can even call the agency. It would be worth doign that because sometimes you will need to go through different neighborhood commissions and historical organizations in order to get the project approved before it even moves to the building department for approval....
poop876,
"you will not need a panel schedule because he is not using a new panel, but you can indicate on the new floor plan to "rewire new electrical equipment to existing panel as required""
Sometimes a new panel is not required for the city or village to ask for it. Maybe I don't know what I am talking about. I'm just a plans examiner and our electrical inspector likes to see panel schedules during his review to make sure their is room for expansion. I think he will also accept, on small projects, a written description stating how many open slots left.
many thanks for the feedback!
I've been in touch with the county planning commission and am awaiting further details on their procedure (everyone is out to lunch).
On the fence,
and that is usually the case, because cowgill already mentioned what kind of project it is I personally would not bother with it and would try to go the simples way with minimal work, after, of course, verification of the existing panel and current loads and new loads added to the room.
not too bad:
3 sets:
foundation plan
floor framing plan
roof framing plan
wall sections
floor plan
elevations
poop876,
Not to pick on you but....."I personally would not bother with it and would try to go the simples way with minimal work," I find this to be the problem now as a plans examiner. Far too many people want to do the minimum amount of work. They then submit it to me. I have to go over it and write up my review. I just did a sunroom yesterday. I had 17 comments on it. Originally when I looked at this train wreck of a submittal I was going to tell the person to hire a licensed professional. Instead I did the review and 17 comments later I sent it off to the electrical inspector for his review. I can only imagine what the total amount of comments is going to be.
Please, people, just do it correctly the first time so I don't have to look like I am nitpicking your project. On top of it, when we send the letter out to you, the design professional, and one letter to the home owner, you will look fairly incompetent to the homeowner. Lets put the meaning of professional back into the term architect.
All I'm saying.
note taken Otf.
Its not about being incompetent, but its about saving money to the client and they would rather try to do it cheap than right. And as a professional you would never have the correction letter sent to the client. And I'm really curious what these 17 comments are if it is only a sunroom. Then we all wonder why people try to go around, do their renovations without even goign to the building department.
I can tell you as fact, we send one letter to the design professional/designer and one to the home owner. No way out of it here. But you will save yourself more money if you do this correctly the first time around. The second time you do it, it will take less time to design and it will possibly take less tim to get through the review especially if you do not have to go through a second review or third. You can of course charge the same amount for this the second or third time around too.
Some of my comments for the sunroom. (Generalized) You really need to see the chicken scratch cd's I looked at to appreciate this.
Locate the addition, on the plat of survey, so that it is not encroaching the side yard setbacks.
Provide window r.o. widths and heights.
Provide header sizes.
What is the wall sheathing material?
Provide roof felt under shingles.
Show flashing as required.
8 1/4" riser heights are not allowed on the steps. A max. 7 3/4" shall be used.
What is the roof decking material? Provide information on edge support.
What size is the header that carries the roof load over the existing stairs.
Provide roof truss drawings.
So on and so forth. Looks like the electrical inspector has about 5 comments.
You are absolutely right. This correction letter would get somebody fired at an architects office, but I'm assuming this was done by a contractor or the owner himself from your statement that it is chicken scratches and from the abundance of common knowledge information an architect would include in a simple set. I'm sick and tired of everybody trying to play architect which makes us underpaid professionals we are today.
You have that correct. Unfortunatly I have to accept these plans and until I can prove they do not have enough knowledge, do the review. This one was done by some small, don't really care, contractor. I won't give out the name but he does small jobs like this. Most architects I've dealt with do the plans pretty professionally but I have had a few sets come in that made me ashamed of my profession, knowing that I'd have to let the inspectors see that crapola and with the knowledge that I am an architect as well. I have also told one person so far, after their first submittal, that I would not do a review for them and that they were required to get a licensed professional. They asked what was wrong. I told them that for me to tell them what was wrong, I'd have to do the design for them. Go get a licensed professional.
We need to get the states to support architects or some sort of licensed design professional outside of arhcitects and engineers. I'm tired of looking at the sets that come in from unlicensed "designers" and contractors. Sure some are pretty good/ok but usually I have to accept some really crappy submitals. These tend to take a lot of my time and I end up giving them the information/design which I am not supposed to do.
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