if you did the dwgs is not a problem to take copies for your next job, as far as i'm concerned. don't bring dwgs that you did not do substantial work on.

yes it is fair. how else can an employer know if you are honest when you say you are able to co-ordinate a set, or have experience detailing steel-framed buildings?

Increasingly on this forum I see posts indicating that employees simply "take" copies of drawings and documents they helped prepare. Without wanting to put too fine a point on this, you need to be aware that such behavior is stealing and subjects the thief to immediate termination, and perhaps worse.

This is the portion of the AIA Code of Ethics dealing with such matters:

CANON V Obligations to Colleagues:
Members should respect the rights and acknowledge the professional aspirations and contributions of their colleagues.
E.S. 5.1 Professional Environment: Members should provide their associates and employees with a suitable working environment, compensate them fairly, and facilitate their professional development.
E.S. 5.2 Intern and Professional Development: Members should recognize and fulfill their obligation to nurture fellow professionals as they progress through all stages of their career, beginning with professional education in the academy, progressing through internship and continuing throughout their career.
E.S. 5.3 Professional Recognition: Members should build their professional reputation on the merits of their own service and performance and should recognize and give credit to others for the professional work they have performed.
Rule 5.301 Members shall recognize and respect the professional contributions of their employees, employers, professional colleagues, and business associates.
Rule 5.302 Members leaving a firm shall not, without the permission of their employer or partner, take designs, drawings, data, reports, notes, or other materials relating to the firm’s work, whether or not performed by the Member.
Rule 5.303 A Member shall not unreasonably withhold permission from a departing employee or partner to take copies of designs, drawings, data, reports, notes, or other materials relating to work performed by the employee or partner that are not confidential.
Commentary: A Member may impose reasonable conditions, such as the payment of copying costs, on the right of departing persons to take copies of their work.

Having practiced architecture for a very long time, I feel comfortable in saying that the vast majority of firms understand and support the idea of their employees having portfolio copies of work they helped produce. However, this transfer of material should be the result of an open and unembarassed dialogue between the employee and the firm.

Theft of work samples is neither necessary nor wise and will lead quickly to a point where you employer doesn't respect you or your professionalism. Don't think for a moment your employer doesn't know when you are taking unauthorized copies of company property.

stone,

How does the AIA look at rule 5.303 in regards to employers using blanket confidentiality statements? Several employers in the past made them a condition of employment. So far it hasn't been a problem as I have always left on good terms, but if something happens and the relationship sours etc... The employer has a signed statement that all work product is confidential, and therefore cannot be used by past employees.

Not so much a concern for me, I am just aware of some other architects in town that have a tendency to ostracize employees after they give notice. (one went as far as frisking an architect that had worked for him for 8 years on the way out the door to make sure he wasn't stealing anything. That was a tough phone call to take .. listening to a 50 year old colleague in tears after the ordeal.)

If you did run into a situation where you felt you were being denied access to work you had performed unfairly what would you suggest?

: naturally, the AIA Code of Ethics applies only to AIA members. Non-members are not subject to that code, although I know quite a few non-members who voluntarily subscribe to these requirements.

The AIA has a complaint procedure to use when someone thinks a member has breached the ethical code. As a voluntary membership organization, disciplinary actions do not carry the weight of law ... they only pertain to aspects of membership and adverse publicity. That's not to suggest such discipline isn't valid and important ... but, if the member really doesn't care, then all he/she has to do is resign from the AIA and move on.

IMO, State Boards of Architecture rarely, if ever, would intercede in matters of this nature.

And, of course, there are lbor laws that address employee rights in cases of dismissal ... those laws have been discussed ad nauseum at the Layoffs....layoffs...... thread so I refer you there to learn what the law can, and cannot, do in event of unjust dismissal, and the related consequences. However, I'm not inclined to think such laws would have much impact on obtaining samples of one's work.

In my experinece, the best strategy for filling out one's portfolio is to maintain good personal relationships with employers, exercise discipline in obtaining work samples openly and honestly as each project finishes, and not burning bridges through acts of subterfuge or dishonesty. I believe the vast majority of employers in our field will act honerably with you if you act honerably with them.

Hope that helps.

s.selophane

It's not unreasonable to ask your former employer for copies of CD's that you've done in their offices. In fact, it is the standard by which most architects and architecture firms expect for employees. To a certain degree, the work you do for another architect is also your intellectual property. People don't just work for money...it's also for building a portfolio, and part of that portfolio is a demonstration that you know how to produce construction documents. It doesn't hurt to ask your former employer, and the interviewing architect certainly has the right to request to see these samples in order to ensure that you are qualified for the position they're looking to fill.

Good luck.

Unless you're fresh out of school, you absolutely need documentation of your work. It's critical.

I'm not sure the AIA COE really applies to this situation. As background, I'm a principal in a small firm, and am not an AIA member, and I always allow employees to document their work.

Rule 5.302 is intended to prevent an employee from stealing materials for illicit use...selling house plans to a contractor...stealing a project by starting your own firm and having existing clients switch to you, facilitated by the fact that you took a full set of CD's with you when you walked out the door...taking the firm's well thought out layering system and handing it over to your new employer. It's not intended to prevent staff from being able to find new employment after they leave an office.

In the best of all worlds, you would ask your employer if it's o.k. to document your work, but if they say no, you're screwed. Instead I would assume that it is standard for the industry for employees to document their work, and do so. Only if your boss raises the issue, then have an honest conversation about it.

DON'T wait until you're laid off, document each project as you finish it...Don't take printed drawings from the office, create pdfs, and keep the files. You can print in the future on your own dime when/if you're interviewing. Don't pdf every page of a 200 sheet construction set, only pdf the sheets you worked on, and be honest with an interviewer as to what your contribution was on a particular sheet...Don't pdf files that you had did not have a hand in creating...Don't create the pdf's on company time...stay late and do it...Don't use the pdfs for uses other than interviewing (don't put them up on your website, or post them on architect)

I have a friend who was recently laid off from a firm after 10 years there. He came in one day, and 1/2 the staff were told that they were laid off, to take any personal effects, and go home. He got a severance package, but had not documented anything he'd worked on. They told him 'no problem, we'll send you a CD right away.' It took 12 weeks for them to get him what he needed. This wasn't out of malice, just indifference/incompetence. But they effectively prevented him from interviewing for 3 months.

Don't allow yourself to found in the same position.

I always asked employers if it was acceptable to make copies of sets, for my portfolio. I was always granted permission, though in some cases I was asked not to identify clients, or not to identify projects-in-progress. I made it a habit to remove title blocks and identifying information from all projects - it just made it simpler.

It's absolutely essential to have previous work to show. Employers know this, and are rarely difficult about letting employees take copies. If they are difficult about it you can cite the AIA's policy, though in practice the AIA has ruled that this only applies to those employees who left a firm within the past year (in other words firms don't necessarily need to allow you to have copies of work if you request them years later...)

Note that the AIA policy assumes that you're using these copies for your personal portfolio, for the purposes of seeking employment and/or clients. You do not automatically have a right to use the work on a website or in any other situation where you are publishing the work for marketing purposes.

While a bit off of the main thread FP had a great post except...

<<the work you do for another architect is also your intellectual property>>

As an emploee you are "work for hire" and the inlectual property belongs to the employer.

dsc is right. I should not have used the words "intellectual property." Intellectual property is with the employer (unless contractually stipulated otherwise), even if the employee designed, created, and produced the work. But, that does not mean you do not have the right to have a copy for yourself for the purposes of marketing yourself.

It's ok to bring prints of your work from a previous office. Most offices have progress prints available to their employees, and don't object to a select number of prints leaving the office as work product examples. So ask, and as long as you're honest about your particular work contribution and don't represent project as being your own sole work effort, most former employers wouldn't object.

Likewise, many firms realize that CAD file renderings and prints presented as representational work in a prospective employee's portfolio are often a false representation of work ability and/or prior responsibilities. Firms have hired people on the basis of portfolio representations, only to find out the person's real skill level is woefully inadequate. References are as important.