Can a sandwich beam span the same length as an LVL? Im trying to span 18'-8". There is no way to feasibly get an LVL of that length into the space without removing windows. Is it possible to bolt and glue together two 2x12's with plywood in the middle to get the proper load capacity for this span? any input would be good..
yeah, im not trying to load a car on it or anything, its just for extra floor space on a split level loft...prob will be used for a bedroom or office...
are you talking about breaking the beam mid-span and bolting it to avoid members that are 19' long?
your 2x12 & plywood solution description would still be 19' long right?
the short answer is that you could create a moment connection in wood by using steel plate (a kind of variation on a flitch-beam), but i'm not sure you could generate enough moment capacity in 11 1/2" of depth.
yes joist hangers on one side connecting to an existing lvl.. no wall on top.. its a shotgun loft, 19' x 53'...i actually thing i just figured out an alternate scheme to where a single span is unnecessary.. please keep comments coming though.. i like the way sandwich beams look when you leave the blots exposed..so may still go that route..
For 18' span side loaded in a loft situation you need steel in the sandwich between 2 LVL's. Thats a flitch beam and thats what you need to keep the thing from bouncing and deflecting. Build a scaffold, open the window, slider it in.
and steel has to be one piece continuous and 1/2" thick right? heeeavy...
why don't you buy a 4x14 then? probably it would be cheaper saving fabrication time etc... 19' span with joists coming into it is a serious span.
times are bad... i'll enginner it for $4oo. numbers are better in cali!
and ifthat sucker deflects more than 1/8" your money back or your matress is freee!!
damn, $500 for a single beam? geez EP, no discount for a fellow 'necter?
SPYDER01,
To get a real answer you'd need to provide some more information, a sketch would go a long way. Does this thing pick up a stair load or any other point loads? hand rails perhaps? What frames into it, where does it frame to, what floor system, mechanical, ceiling etc. will be attached to it. Otherwise you are just stabbing in the dark.
bee careful....enginerr's always over design....if you don't believe me just ask FLW. You might find an Architect to do the design for $100.00 and forgo the enginerr!
i'll do it for $375! and you'll get what you paid for; a beautiful beam with no problems.
posts and foundation plans, installation to masonry walls and hardware details are not included and they will be extra. client to supply additional information for estimating extra design fees. above price is sizing the beam only. provided the foundation pads possible and/or there are adequate structural supports for the beam exist after on site structural observation and analysis.
hahah you guys are ridiculous, seriously, one beam? just tell me what you need and I'll give you the size species of wood, modulus of elasticity, LVL, SPL, or whatever, it isn't a problem. This is a ten second problem. Typical details aren't much harder if you give a reasonable sketch.
I don't really have a 'per beam' price, just seems like a funny thing to charge for if there aren't even calcs or drawings to be provided, I mean calculate a shear, a moment, maybe torsion, deflection and determine the Section modulus and moment of inertia required, it is pretty straightforward, you know?
I suppose to make it worth my while would probably be like $50 or $100, though I don't really have plans of getting into the one beam design field. I was just making the point that $500 is roughly the price for 4 to 6hrs of work at a regular SE firm, and 1 beam doesn't take that long. :)
If can use intermediate posts, as you seem to be saying you can, then this whole thing is pretty much moot. Span tables are avaiable everywhere.
however, if you're looking to free span that distance, and you're looking to not only do a sandwich or flitch, but are also then looking to create intermediate splices (end to end) for convenience reasons, then you need an engineer.
Jan 17, 09 3:31 pm ·
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Sandwhich Beam
Can a sandwich beam span the same length as an LVL? Im trying to span 18'-8". There is no way to feasibly get an LVL of that length into the space without removing windows. Is it possible to bolt and glue together two 2x12's with plywood in the middle to get the proper load capacity for this span? any input would be good..
Thx
Manufacturers love these questions!
Try it and find out
yeah, im not trying to load a car on it or anything, its just for extra floor space on a split level loft...prob will be used for a bedroom or office...
even so, how are you gonna get a plywood 19' long?
Still though are you making a beam that will have joists frame into it? Both sides? Wall on top? Need more information.
are you talking about breaking the beam mid-span and bolting it to avoid members that are 19' long?
your 2x12 & plywood solution description would still be 19' long right?
the short answer is that you could create a moment connection in wood by using steel plate (a kind of variation on a flitch-beam), but i'm not sure you could generate enough moment capacity in 11 1/2" of depth.
engineer time.
yes joist hangers on one side connecting to an existing lvl.. no wall on top.. its a shotgun loft, 19' x 53'...i actually thing i just figured out an alternate scheme to where a single span is unnecessary.. please keep comments coming though.. i like the way sandwich beams look when you leave the blots exposed..so may still go that route..
yeah, im trying to avoid the engineer on this one.. its just for my place.. figured id try to archinect it first...
For 18' span side loaded in a loft situation you need steel in the sandwich between 2 LVL's. Thats a flitch beam and thats what you need to keep the thing from bouncing and deflecting. Build a scaffold, open the window, slider it in.
and steel has to be one piece continuous and 1/2" thick right? heeeavy...
why don't you buy a 4x14 then? probably it would be cheaper saving fabrication time etc... 19' span with joists coming into it is a serious span.
nothing like a sandwich beam for lunch after a harty breakfast of corten flakes!
I'll enginerr it for you for $500
times are bad... i'll enginner it for $4oo. numbers are better in cali!
and ifthat sucker deflects more than 1/8" your money back or your matress is freee!!
damn, $500 for a single beam? geez EP, no discount for a fellow 'necter?
SPYDER01,
To get a real answer you'd need to provide some more information, a sketch would go a long way. Does this thing pick up a stair load or any other point loads? hand rails perhaps? What frames into it, where does it frame to, what floor system, mechanical, ceiling etc. will be attached to it. Otherwise you are just stabbing in the dark.
bee careful....enginerr's always over design....if you don't believe me just ask FLW. You might find an Architect to do the design for $100.00 and forgo the enginerr!
Second Thought....is a Architecture Student might be willing to do it for free, if your willing to sign there IDP forms.
i'll do it for $375! and you'll get what you paid for; a beautiful beam with no problems.
posts and foundation plans, installation to masonry walls and hardware details are not included and they will be extra. client to supply additional information for estimating extra design fees. above price is sizing the beam only. provided the foundation pads possible and/or there are adequate structural supports for the beam exist after on site structural observation and analysis.
Orhan....does that include air fare for the site visit?
no. we have local participating architect in most areas.
TC/AC
(Thread Central Architects' Collaborative)
hahah you guys are ridiculous, seriously, one beam? just tell me what you need and I'll give you the size species of wood, modulus of elasticity, LVL, SPL, or whatever, it isn't a problem. This is a ten second problem. Typical details aren't much harder if you give a reasonable sketch.
mmm. i'd like to sandwich a flitch plate.
err...
Syn - yes typical problem. How much?
I don't really have a 'per beam' price, just seems like a funny thing to charge for if there aren't even calcs or drawings to be provided, I mean calculate a shear, a moment, maybe torsion, deflection and determine the Section modulus and moment of inertia required, it is pretty straightforward, you know?
I suppose to make it worth my while would probably be like $50 or $100, though I don't really have plans of getting into the one beam design field. I was just making the point that $500 is roughly the price for 4 to 6hrs of work at a regular SE firm, and 1 beam doesn't take that long. :)
You could always go here and read all 96 pages or just the pages you need to read because most of the information is formula driven.
http://www.toolbase.org/Design-Construction-Guides/Exterior-Walls/flitch-plate-beam
If can use intermediate posts, as you seem to be saying you can, then this whole thing is pretty much moot. Span tables are avaiable everywhere.
however, if you're looking to free span that distance, and you're looking to not only do a sandwich or flitch, but are also then looking to create intermediate splices (end to end) for convenience reasons, then you need an engineer.
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