It is a deep thing that people still celebrate the survival of the early colonists at Plymouth — by giving thanks to the Christian God who supposedly protected and championed the European invasion. The real meaning of all that, then and now, needs to be continually excavated. The myths and lies that surround the past are constantly draped over the horrors and tortures of our present.
It has nothing to do with skin color it has to do with oppression and colonialism and the mass slaughter genocide and systematic murder for land by a people driven by myth of prophet. Well and some racial superiority derived from said myth.
Ironic thing is, I'm sure the colonists had the same sense of sanctimonious self-righteousness as today's finger-wagging moralizers at either end of the political spectrum. In fact, the OP of this thread sounds downright Puritan in its tone.
Seriously.... Nobody here is denying that the American Indians got fucked over. But unless Antisthenes has invented a time machine that will allow us to go back in time to right history's wrongs, there's not a damn thing any of us can do about what may or may not have happened at Plymouth Rock in the 1600's.
Rather than trying to make the absurd case that Thanksgiving = Trail of Tears, maybe Antisthenes's efforts would be better spent taking action to improve the lot of present-day American Indians who still live in third-world conditions.
1/32 sioux...that's why I still hate the man deep down.
Antithenes is a very naive liberal who lives in a world of virtual absurdities...I wouldn't pay much attention to any political statement made by Antithenes.
1/32 Saponi here, eigenvectors - but here's the funny thing, my parents are both 1/32 Saponi, and it's the same ancestor! (My parents are third cousins.) Since I got 1/32 from both of them, I'm also 1/32.
what's funny is this, before i became somewhat enlightened, i used to think, what the hell did my family have to do with slavery? i mean my father and his parents emigrated to america after WW2, but then i remembered that my father is Dutch, and that is when the whole Dutch East India Company hit me in the dome.
But, but, but, but, Gin.... there is something we could do. All of us non-native Americans could all just pack up everything and head on back to the old country. Cuz that's really going to happen.
Hmmm and all this time I thought Thanksgiving was about gorging oneself with a little bit of turkey and a whole lot of yummy fixin's. Damn I knew it couldn't be that easy.
The standard recognition of Modern holidays in general are hard to track ontologically anymore. I can understand Antithenes points but I forget the point of being empiircal amidst such a crazy post-modernist type of approach to holidays in this country. I realize we are suppose to honor the day...but I rather honor the day off more now. Sorry for not caring that much, I have my own holidays.
noctilucent - than every person on this earth should feel guilty b/c at one time or another our ancestors raped, pillaged, killed, etc. another group b/c they were seeking something they didn't have or felt threatened of the other in one way or another.
I'm of Ukrainian descent, more than likely Cossack, if you know anything about them, they weren't the friendliest people, especially against the Jews. Does that mean I have to feel guilty for actions that I had no control of, that happened centuries ago? NO. Acknowledge it. Learn about it. Learn FROM it. Make a point to be a better person and to treat ALL people of ALL ethnic groups with the utmost respect.
Seriously, guilt and anger just paralyzes people. In order to combat the injustices that are still going on in the present day, we have to move past the past.
And in all honesty, I know for me and perhaps a lot of people out there, Thanksgiving has morphed into something completely different than it's original intention. It's about being thankful for my family and friends and showing them the love I have for them. And with this I bid adieu. Got some cookin' (which is lovin') to do for my family.
we need to stop thinking that things like genocide & mass murder are wrong just because we think they're kind of gross at the time. the truth is that they are actually a pretty effective piece of the life/death cycle.
i mean really, how else would you expect to get rid of the indians? just ask them to leave? i bet that would have worked real well.
Repent, sinners! How dare you celebrate Abraham Lincoln's secular holiday with your families when you are all stained by the blood of your ancestors' collective sin? You are all worthless, vile creatures, and you should all hang your heads in shame as you chow down on your turkey! Your only salvation is in the form of smug self-righteousness combined with superficial public gestures that require no sacrifice! Repent now!! Your efforts to work for social justice in the present day are meaningless compared to the real work that needs to be done, such as posting YouTube videos and renaming a second-tier holiday! Liberal guilt demands that you atone for other peoples' sins! Repent!
melt - i did note that LiG was being inanely individualistic in his/her approach. this is to say, i see a wider scope of a cultural "guilt" that goes beyond the simplistic psychology of masochism; this would render the individual free of this irrelevant freudianish guilt as well as this equally freudianish backlashing anal vitriol the likes of LiG exhibit. the country's elite would have to institute the economic payback given to those people concerened. the concept is not one of charity, which is the true cliche here vulgarly flagged about by LiG, but rather payback. that one should immediately read this as individual incrimination only goes to show how wrenched apart are these shards of subjectivities, purged of history and responsibility. i believe this is exactly the prerequisite for the banality of evil hannah arendt points out to. and this is exactly why LiG immediately gives way to the ugly puddles and her/his distateful comments.
regret, regretfully, is always too late in coming.
noctilucent - Why is the answer to the solution always monetary? While I do think it would help, I don't think it it's the answer. Millions of people died and were degraded/subjugated. Are you really saying that a human life can be bought? Anyone can throw money at the problem, but unless the deep seeded feelings are dealt with, there is always going to be an underlying current of distrust and hatred running through the vein of the society.
You cannot deny that there is some truth to what both puddles and LIG stated, as callous they may be. Life is harsh and competitive. This kind of stuff has been happening since the beginning of time and will continue until the end of time, and there will be individuals out there that have strong feels of guilt toward something they weren't even a part of. It's just human nature.
i do not see how relevant that question is as you pose it to me; i did not mention merely the monetary, i mentioned an economy; which means a system/s of communal management rather than merely a product. refer to the etymology of economy (oikos + nomos)
melt: Millions of people died and were degraded/subjugated. Are you really saying that a human life can be bought?...etc
i said nor implied no such thing, this is your aberrant misreading. refer to my above comment. what i am imply, however, is to bypass these tired and cliched rhetorical psychological ticks and mannerisms of individual Self-or Other (as is the case with LiG) -flagellation and formulate a, as unfashionable as this might sound in an age of fetishized schizophrenia, sober and ethically sound payback system that feeds off and into the mainstream system. for the random shards of subjectivities to feel personally offended, traumatized, guilt-ridden, so fucking what? the system must take upon itself the guilt, not dispose of it to the random individual's sense of charity. not charity...but payback. the land was not your grand grand ...parents'.
on a side note, its not surprising that the USA and, before it, the supremely colonial Britain, helped pave the way for the parasitical actualization of the colonial zionism.
as for your second paragraph, melt, i don't wish to address that in an elaborate fashion; I would only like to note that, whislt meaning no personal offence, your argument is only a trite, though megalomanic in its facistic metaphysics of (a)historical absolution, speck in the practiced skirmish between cliches (inkeeping with the secondary subject matter of this post) regarding free will and determisim. that sort of argumentation is not my forte.
My father recently had our family's dna traced back through the millenia.
It shows that my family came out of the Eurasian steppes (probably as a part of Genghis Khan's armies) and settled somewhere around the Basque region of Spain, before moving northward into the British Isles.
At some point, I suspect, relatives of mine both overthrew others, and were overthrown. As the science of genetics becomes more precise, we'll possibly be able to measure and locate every transgression, forced colonization, and invasion in history.
Will we, as some here seem to be saying, be obligated to atone for the sins of every one of our ancestors, however distant? When does this particular statute of limitations run out? How do we systematize guilt and mourning? And why should we? Be good now, apologize for what happened before, and move on. Truth and reconciliation.
Today, societies exist in the world that are more egalitarian and democratic than any that have ever existed, including the US. These countries have tried very hard to create situations in which discrimination is the exception and not the norm. They will get better, too. But every nation has a bloodied history—every nation has the bones of victors and of victims in its soil.
honestly though LiG, genocide is hardly something that, we just get over with and move on. long before the 40 acres and a mule was owed, this country owed the native inhabitants more than some trinkets, booze, blankets, guns and venereal disease.
"we need to stop thinking that things like genocide & mass murder are wrong just because we think they're kind of gross at the time. the truth is that they are actually a pretty effective piece of the life/death cycle."
glad to hear it, because i always perform a final solution on your posts by moving the scroll bar on the right and making them disappear from my screen.
I wonder how many American Indians Howard has as close personal friends....or any other intellectual in this country....as they for the most part have been out of the loop....I can think of a handful American Indians and I think they for the most part celebrate the day
just like everyone else. They don't burry there head in sorrow but have a positive outlook. Ya they would like all their land back, but they know that isn't going to happen. It is more important to them to have the govermnent recongnize that places like Mato Sapha are
spirtual places for them and not State Parks. So they would like to practice their beliefs outside of the realm of anglo tourist. Which I can say the government has finally come around and given them a buffer between themselves of the average american tourist. So they
can can practice their beliefs. As for the Indian Lawyers....they are bad ass so keep out of their way. I have no doubt George Bush will not be giving any get out free cards to American Indians when he starts pardoning people in the coming days.
The history of Native Americans is tragic, without a doubt. The history of blacks in America is tragic. The history of Asians here is tragic as well, as is much of the history of Asians in Asia. As is the history of the Irish potato famine that caused so many Irish to come to the US, or the history of communism in Eastern Europe that so many fled from. Or the pogroms in Russia that led many Russians to emigrate here. Or the history of the treatment of Jews in Europe. Or the serfdom in Scandinavia that many fled from. Or the status of being an impoverished untouchable in India. Or.....or......or. America has no monopoly on a troubled past.
America has faults. So do most other nations. But America, I would argue, has been far more generous to minorities (particularly in the last forty years) than most other nations have. It doesn't forgive us our sins, but it tempers them a little bit.
People who want to see America as an oppressive, evil leviathan read Howard Zinn and hold him up as a kind of bible. But there are many histories of the United States, and many perspectives on its history. That's what makes it a great nation—it is as diverse and plural and full of possibilities as any nation that ever existed on earth.
noctilucent sez: the system must take upon itself the guilt.
How? Days of mourning? Penitential self-flagellation on Tuesdays? Self-immolation for white guys as punishment for their genetic inheritance? Laws against thought-crime and double-think?
Explain in clear language—without all of the misspelled ten-cent words you're prone to using—what you mean by having the system take upon itself the guilt.
not really. in principle, i don't care enough to elaborate or explain it to an invidious intellectually stolid sloth (for the 10 cent piggy bank) who is prone to using adventitious mocking language. just to be clearer about it, i'm perfectly alright with sloths as long as they're not pestiferous. it doesn't become them.
now ... you don't actually care enough for such an interactive contrapuntal exercise, i hope you understand that about yourself. i think that, at least, should be, for you, quite clear.
what's kind of sad about that video posted above (now that i've actually watched it) is that is doesn't really have much to do with thanksgiving specifically but rather the general treatment of the indian obliteration.
the thanksgiving holiday is probably one of the few things of america to be proud of. a simple holiday devoid of commercialization (other than butterball turkeys) that emphasizes food, family and being thankful...it's so humble that it's almost un-american. besides native americans were at the dinner table with pilgrims so it probably represents one of the highlights of inter-cultural relations. i'll assume that scalpings & genocide didn't occur until sometime after dessert...and sometime before american culture blessed up with gossip girl.
on that note, i've got more important things to worry about...like hoping i'm not accused of being a magical penis thief. even in 2008 you can be lynched for that shit
i've read howard zinns book and i think it is a good book, but it isn't any more or less accurate than any other version of american history. even zinn himself admits at one point that his book only tells one side of the story. there is certainly more to american history than just howard zinns version. it's impossible to sum up in the few hundred pages of a paperback book.
Thanks. I just added a few malapropisms to my vocabulary.
I prefer clarity in intellectual argument. You call my approach sloth (on what basis, I don't know. Is it that I don't (mis)use words like adventitious and pestiferous?) But then you fail to answer my question regarding how the system can take guilt upon itself.
Avoidance is one of the key strategies of intellectual laziness—turn the question back on the questioner, insult his motivations, hope no one notices. Clever.
Thanks Giving, A Native American View
It is a deep thing that people still celebrate the survival of the early colonists at Plymouth — by giving thanks to the Christian God who supposedly protected and championed the European invasion. The real meaning of all that, then and now, needs to be continually excavated. The myths and lies that surround the past are constantly draped over the horrors and tortures of our present.
^yeah, what he said.
fcuk whitey.
That's hilarious, beta.
Happy Thanksgiving!
citizen, you too, have a great one!
Most of my ancestors didn't come over until much later. Am I still obligated to feel guilty for being white?
It has nothing to do with skin color it has to do with oppression and colonialism and the mass slaughter genocide and systematic murder for land by a people driven by myth of prophet. Well and some racial superiority derived from said myth.
Gin,
Merely asking that question shows your culpabiility and insensitivity. How dare you even suggest that you might be innocent?
I mean, really.
Ironic thing is, I'm sure the colonists had the same sense of sanctimonious self-righteousness as today's finger-wagging moralizers at either end of the political spectrum. In fact, the OP of this thread sounds downright Puritan in its tone.
Beautifully stated, Gin.
It really is a shame though that Thankgiving dinner is such a sham reenactment.
I'm much more interested in the ritual of eating a lot than in anything else, really.
Viva la turkey! Er, I guess - non viva la turkey!
Seriously.... Nobody here is denying that the American Indians got fucked over. But unless Antisthenes has invented a time machine that will allow us to go back in time to right history's wrongs, there's not a damn thing any of us can do about what may or may not have happened at Plymouth Rock in the 1600's.
Rather than trying to make the absurd case that Thanksgiving = Trail of Tears, maybe Antisthenes's efforts would be better spent taking action to improve the lot of present-day American Indians who still live in third-world conditions.
1/32 sioux...that's why I still hate the man deep down.
Antithenes is a very naive liberal who lives in a world of virtual absurdities...I wouldn't pay much attention to any political statement made by Antithenes.
1/32 Saponi here, eigenvectors - but here's the funny thing, my parents are both 1/32 Saponi, and it's the same ancestor! (My parents are third cousins.) Since I got 1/32 from both of them, I'm also 1/32.
what's funny is this, before i became somewhat enlightened, i used to think, what the hell did my family have to do with slavery? i mean my father and his parents emigrated to america after WW2, but then i remembered that my father is Dutch, and that is when the whole Dutch East India Company hit me in the dome.
But, but, but, but, Gin.... there is something we could do. All of us non-native Americans could all just pack up everything and head on back to the old country. Cuz that's really going to happen.
Hmmm and all this time I thought Thanksgiving was about gorging oneself with a little bit of turkey and a whole lot of yummy fixin's. Damn I knew it couldn't be that easy.
The standard recognition of Modern holidays in general are hard to track ontologically anymore. I can understand Antithenes points but I forget the point of being empiircal amidst such a crazy post-modernist type of approach to holidays in this country. I realize we are suppose to honor the day...but I rather honor the day off more now. Sorry for not caring that much, I have my own holidays.
noctilucent - than every person on this earth should feel guilty b/c at one time or another our ancestors raped, pillaged, killed, etc. another group b/c they were seeking something they didn't have or felt threatened of the other in one way or another.
I'm of Ukrainian descent, more than likely Cossack, if you know anything about them, they weren't the friendliest people, especially against the Jews. Does that mean I have to feel guilty for actions that I had no control of, that happened centuries ago? NO. Acknowledge it. Learn about it. Learn FROM it. Make a point to be a better person and to treat ALL people of ALL ethnic groups with the utmost respect.
Seriously, guilt and anger just paralyzes people. In order to combat the injustices that are still going on in the present day, we have to move past the past.
And in all honesty, I know for me and perhaps a lot of people out there, Thanksgiving has morphed into something completely different than it's original intention. It's about being thankful for my family and friends and showing them the love I have for them. And with this I bid adieu. Got some cookin' (which is lovin') to do for my family.
we need to stop thinking that things like genocide & mass murder are wrong just because we think they're kind of gross at the time. the truth is that they are actually a pretty effective piece of the life/death cycle.
i mean really, how else would you expect to get rid of the indians? just ask them to leave? i bet that would have worked real well.
LOL!!!!! puddles you crack me up.
class, race, and sex.
if you don't learn from the past, you are doomed to repeat it
joke because you know how uncomfortable you are and it is the only way to feel better, i understand that
declare it a national day of mourning and rename Columbus day.
much like Zozobra rather than a calibration of the conquest of the Pueblo Indian uprising to be a burning away of 'old spirits' and past ills
last years video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVKY6_Z2dtU&feature=related
...those words must be the most tired cliche in human culture...i wonder why we keep uttering them?
besides, nobody's joking here. life by its very nature is wickedly, brutally competitive. living is winning and that is worth being comfortable about.
Repent, sinners! How dare you celebrate Abraham Lincoln's secular holiday with your families when you are all stained by the blood of your ancestors' collective sin? You are all worthless, vile creatures, and you should all hang your heads in shame as you chow down on your turkey! Your only salvation is in the form of smug self-righteousness combined with superficial public gestures that require no sacrifice! Repent now!! Your efforts to work for social justice in the present day are meaningless compared to the real work that needs to be done, such as posting YouTube videos and renaming a second-tier holiday! Liberal guilt demands that you atone for other peoples' sins! Repent!
i'd rather be hanging out on archinect than having thanksgiving...
why don't we have a chat room?
Ryan, post in "Thread Central", that is the closest thing to a chat room that we have.
Just in case anybody's looking for a way to put their money where their mouth is, instead of just pissing in other people's cranberry sauce:
American Indian College Fund
Native Energy Project
Indigenous Democratic Network
Put up or shut up.
Corrected link for Native Energy
And one more:
Native American Rights Fund
melt - i did note that LiG was being inanely individualistic in his/her approach. this is to say, i see a wider scope of a cultural "guilt" that goes beyond the simplistic psychology of masochism; this would render the individual free of this irrelevant freudianish guilt as well as this equally freudianish backlashing anal vitriol the likes of LiG exhibit. the country's elite would have to institute the economic payback given to those people concerened. the concept is not one of charity, which is the true cliche here vulgarly flagged about by LiG, but rather payback. that one should immediately read this as individual incrimination only goes to show how wrenched apart are these shards of subjectivities, purged of history and responsibility. i believe this is exactly the prerequisite for the banality of evil hannah arendt points out to. and this is exactly why LiG immediately gives way to the ugly puddles and her/his distateful comments.
regret, regretfully, is always too late in coming.
my comments are not "distasteful"...they're awesome!
noctilucent - Why is the answer to the solution always monetary? While I do think it would help, I don't think it it's the answer. Millions of people died and were degraded/subjugated. Are you really saying that a human life can be bought? Anyone can throw money at the problem, but unless the deep seeded feelings are dealt with, there is always going to be an underlying current of distrust and hatred running through the vein of the society.
You cannot deny that there is some truth to what both puddles and LIG stated, as callous they may be. Life is harsh and competitive. This kind of stuff has been happening since the beginning of time and will continue until the end of time, and there will be individuals out there that have strong feels of guilt toward something they weren't even a part of. It's just human nature.
Look shit happens regardless of meaningful human involvement.
i do not see how relevant that question is as you pose it to me; i did not mention merely the monetary, i mentioned an economy; which means a system/s of communal management rather than merely a product. refer to the etymology of economy (oikos + nomos)
melt: Millions of people died and were degraded/subjugated. Are you really saying that a human life can be bought?...etc
i said nor implied no such thing, this is your aberrant misreading. refer to my above comment. what i am imply, however, is to bypass these tired and cliched rhetorical psychological ticks and mannerisms of individual Self-or Other (as is the case with LiG) -flagellation and formulate a, as unfashionable as this might sound in an age of fetishized schizophrenia, sober and ethically sound payback system that feeds off and into the mainstream system. for the random shards of subjectivities to feel personally offended, traumatized, guilt-ridden, so fucking what? the system must take upon itself the guilt, not dispose of it to the random individual's sense of charity. not charity...but payback. the land was not your grand grand ...parents'.
on a side note, its not surprising that the USA and, before it, the supremely colonial Britain, helped pave the way for the parasitical actualization of the colonial zionism.
as for your second paragraph, melt, i don't wish to address that in an elaborate fashion; I would only like to note that, whislt meaning no personal offence, your argument is only a trite, though megalomanic in its facistic metaphysics of (a)historical absolution, speck in the practiced skirmish between cliches (inkeeping with the secondary subject matter of this post) regarding free will and determisim. that sort of argumentation is not my forte.
there's only 1 culture that brings all the cultures together....that i know of...
My father recently had our family's dna traced back through the millenia.
It shows that my family came out of the Eurasian steppes (probably as a part of Genghis Khan's armies) and settled somewhere around the Basque region of Spain, before moving northward into the British Isles.
At some point, I suspect, relatives of mine both overthrew others, and were overthrown. As the science of genetics becomes more precise, we'll possibly be able to measure and locate every transgression, forced colonization, and invasion in history.
Will we, as some here seem to be saying, be obligated to atone for the sins of every one of our ancestors, however distant? When does this particular statute of limitations run out? How do we systematize guilt and mourning? And why should we? Be good now, apologize for what happened before, and move on. Truth and reconciliation.
Today, societies exist in the world that are more egalitarian and democratic than any that have ever existed, including the US. These countries have tried very hard to create situations in which discrimination is the exception and not the norm. They will get better, too. But every nation has a bloodied history—every nation has the bones of victors and of victims in its soil.
honestly though LiG, genocide is hardly something that, we just get over with and move on. long before the 40 acres and a mule was owed, this country owed the native inhabitants more than some trinkets, booze, blankets, guns and venereal disease.
A Peoples History of America, Howard Zinn, the most accurate complete book of the history of this land
"we need to stop thinking that things like genocide & mass murder are wrong just because we think they're kind of gross at the time. the truth is that they are actually a pretty effective piece of the life/death cycle."
glad to hear it, because i always perform a final solution on your posts by moving the scroll bar on the right and making them disappear from my screen.
farwest1 - I agree. This pretty much what I had unsuccessfully attempted to convey in my previous posts.
farwest1 - I agree. This pretty much what I had unsuccessfully attempted to convey in my previous posts.
farwest1 - I agree. This pretty much what I had unsuccessfully attempted to convey in my previous posts.
I wonder how many American Indians Howard has as close personal friends....or any other intellectual in this country....as they for the most part have been out of the loop....I can think of a handful American Indians and I think they for the most part celebrate the day
just like everyone else. They don't burry there head in sorrow but have a positive outlook. Ya they would like all their land back, but they know that isn't going to happen. It is more important to them to have the govermnent recongnize that places like Mato Sapha are
spirtual places for them and not State Parks. So they would like to practice their beliefs outside of the realm of anglo tourist. Which I can say the government has finally come around and given them a buffer between themselves of the average american tourist. So they
can can practice their beliefs. As for the Indian Lawyers....they are bad ass so keep out of their way. I have no doubt George Bush will not be giving any get out free cards to American Indians when he starts pardoning people in the coming days.
The history of Native Americans is tragic, without a doubt. The history of blacks in America is tragic. The history of Asians here is tragic as well, as is much of the history of Asians in Asia. As is the history of the Irish potato famine that caused so many Irish to come to the US, or the history of communism in Eastern Europe that so many fled from. Or the pogroms in Russia that led many Russians to emigrate here. Or the history of the treatment of Jews in Europe. Or the serfdom in Scandinavia that many fled from. Or the status of being an impoverished untouchable in India. Or.....or......or. America has no monopoly on a troubled past.
America has faults. So do most other nations. But America, I would argue, has been far more generous to minorities (particularly in the last forty years) than most other nations have. It doesn't forgive us our sins, but it tempers them a little bit.
People who want to see America as an oppressive, evil leviathan read Howard Zinn and hold him up as a kind of bible. But there are many histories of the United States, and many perspectives on its history. That's what makes it a great nation—it is as diverse and plural and full of possibilities as any nation that ever existed on earth.
noctilucent sez: the system must take upon itself the guilt.
How? Days of mourning? Penitential self-flagellation on Tuesdays? Self-immolation for white guys as punishment for their genetic inheritance? Laws against thought-crime and double-think?
Explain in clear language—without all of the misspelled ten-cent words you're prone to using—what you mean by having the system take upon itself the guilt.
farwest1,
not really. in principle, i don't care enough to elaborate or explain it to an invidious intellectually stolid sloth (for the 10 cent piggy bank) who is prone to using adventitious mocking language. just to be clearer about it, i'm perfectly alright with sloths as long as they're not pestiferous. it doesn't become them.
now ... you don't actually care enough for such an interactive contrapuntal exercise, i hope you understand that about yourself. i think that, at least, should be, for you, quite clear.
Wow... Could you possibly be any more of a pompous jackass?
what's kind of sad about that video posted above (now that i've actually watched it) is that is doesn't really have much to do with thanksgiving specifically but rather the general treatment of the indian obliteration.
the thanksgiving holiday is probably one of the few things of america to be proud of. a simple holiday devoid of commercialization (other than butterball turkeys) that emphasizes food, family and being thankful...it's so humble that it's almost un-american. besides native americans were at the dinner table with pilgrims so it probably represents one of the highlights of inter-cultural relations. i'll assume that scalpings & genocide didn't occur until sometime after dessert...and sometime before american culture blessed up with gossip girl.
on that note, i've got more important things to worry about...like hoping i'm not accused of being a magical penis thief. even in 2008 you can be lynched for that shit
i've read howard zinns book and i think it is a good book, but it isn't any more or less accurate than any other version of american history. even zinn himself admits at one point that his book only tells one side of the story. there is certainly more to american history than just howard zinns version. it's impossible to sum up in the few hundred pages of a paperback book.
Puddles, my love, you are totally jakes right? 'devoid of commercialization" - I do hope you are play the harlequin.
But if not, please attend the funeral of the trampled Wal-Mart worker in Long island.
noctilucent,
Thanks. I just added a few malapropisms to my vocabulary.
I prefer clarity in intellectual argument. You call my approach sloth (on what basis, I don't know. Is it that I don't (mis)use words like adventitious and pestiferous?) But then you fail to answer my question regarding how the system can take guilt upon itself.
Avoidance is one of the key strategies of intellectual laziness—turn the question back on the questioner, insult his motivations, hope no one notices. Clever.
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