I would never reject a job based on outdated computers and software. I base my decisions on my feelings about the type and quality of work and the dynamics/working process of the firm. If those things are good it wouldn't matter to me if they were producing their drawings with sticks in the dirt.
As far as the look of the office: it would depend on how much of a dump. If there is actual filth and/or if it seems that people don't have their own workspaces then I might hesitate. If it is one of those offices that has desks made of doors and has models and piles of paper on every surface I would not hold that against them. In my experience that usually means a few things: on the downside it can mean people are harried, frazzled, and possibly not too organized. On the up side it means the firm is probably very busy (so plenty of work), that interns in the firm spend their time on tasks other than cleaning/filing/organizing, and that the culture of the firm is not really uptight.
Before going into architecture, I had different jobs in different branches. Form plumbing to cleaning a law firm. So you can say I’ve seen many different offices form the inside. Still I was pretty amazed when I walked into an architectural firm for the first time. Not that I expected a well design interior what many people would expect from architects, but by the lack of taste and the effort to make it a little bit “officableâ€Â. I don’t think that money is the issue. You can get a good looking and large enough tabletop for 15 dollars at the Ikea.
It is difficult to say what I would or wouldn’t reject. For health reasons, I probably would not work in a firm that has a poor interior. I would get back problems working on an old cheap chair. But working for a firm where I would have to put in extra hours, because the computers are to slow isn’t an option either.
yep been there done that. first if the technology is not up to snuff, how can i expected to work efficiently? how can i trust my drawings won't disappear because of the shittiy computers, or lack of network? how can i take firm seriously, or expect clients to take my firm seriously, if the office looks like shit? how would anyone be comfortable in situation that looks and runs in a world of chaos?
yes.
Having worked on Macs/Archicad previously, when I was offered another job using the same plat/soft I said NO (just personal pref.)
I have rejected plenty of offers from large pharm/lab specializing offices where the avg. age was 55.
Not really seen many "dirty" offices...messy, yes but typically it's a good messy with sketches, models, and all sorts of creative crap laying around (like a school studio) Definitively reject if all of the desks are devoid of this.
reject;
*offices with receptionist and lobby
*offices with trimmed beard owners
*offices with large collection of fabric and formica samples
*offices with seperate design and production departments
*offices where you have to design as if your boss designed it
*offices covered by carpet
*office walls covered by owner's stupid sketches
*offices where the boss is regarded as wild and crazy genious
*offices where you are given a silly perspective sketch to turn it into architecture
*offices where you are assigned a workstation number
*offices where your boss drives a rich boys toy when your transportation is about to brake.
*offices where study models are forbidden.
just a few i can think of.these kind of places are usually waste of time.
*offices where the boss says "don't think, just draw".
*offices where the boss never pays you on time even though he drives a MB SL (whatever), owns a summer cottage, a sea going boat, 360 (acres?) of farm land, a very large house, and never works on Friday,
*offices where the boss does't have a clue how to use a computer.
*offices with any kind of yelling.
*offices walls covered by owner's stupid sketches... made to look like preliminary sketches but done months after construction was complete... and framed and signed!
Ridge, I completely disagree with Aluminate. I would DEFINITELY reject a job offer based on outdated computers and sotfware. Outdated computers can make your life HELL in an office, i'm speaking of experience. I've still got painful memories of trying to work on some shitty old macs that were so slow they could barely be used as calculators. absolute nightmare. Trust me it's just not worth the hassle and if the boss does not understand the need to keep up to date with technology then it's his/her problem and you should not have to sufffer the consequences of that. And it's ok to rejetct a job offer if you feel it's not suited to you, regardless of computers and facility.
I must tell you a few of those things you highlighted way funny because I used to work for people like that when I didn't have much of a choice - and said hell no never again.
here's more
* when the only magazines are about 20 years and is a copy of Architectural Digest
* the office has a strict policy against seeing the building until the opening ceremony <- I kid you not!
* when the principal says models are things you do in school
Yes, have rejected based on a firm that in 2001 was still running 486 computers with Arris software.
Also reject offices that hype their "innovative" office design when it's filled with Steelcase 9000 systems furniture.
Embrace offices that have a reception desk that was salvaged from an alteration of a strip club. Nothing beats a black and pink reception desk. (Interviewed there but didn't accept job because of better offer.)
I accepted the wrong job offer not too long ago and only stayed there for about 3 weeks. I couldn't wait to get out of there. (project type and office location is not the only thing to look for!)
the main reasons I quit:
1. outdated computer and plotters and printers made it really frustrating to do work.
2. not enough people with extensive experience to learn from
3. there were ROACHES!!!!!
4. got another offer with MUCH more money.
It seems to be very difficult to find the type of job that is very design oriented with big name projects and architects in the best location, with good computers, etc......and still pay higher than average salaries polled by the AIA.
i've known many architects who have had to change careers to engineering companys, contrators, industrial design,etc. for higher salaries.
*offices where the principal was having a neavous brakedown and his kid would go around the office hitting staff with the cardboard rolls from the large format printer.
*offices where projects were done in a week. aka Cowboy Design
*offices where one of the partners rings you on 9/11 and tells you to get back to work 'cause we gotta get America working again'
*offices where the reception is the 2nd highest paid employee, next to the principal
* offices where the owners dog comes to work and is allowed to eat your lunch
* offices where the boss calls you in the hospital after you have just had a miscarriage and tells you if you are not in the office tomorrow he will dock your pay.
* offices where everyone dresses the same and says things like "brown is the new black..."
* offices that have had the front door padlocked by the IRS because the owner forgot to send the IRS the money he withheld from your paycheck.
* offices with clean cubicles
* offices where the boss makes you take a break every hour just so he can have someone to talk to when hes smoking, then complains when you aren't done with something.
* offices where the bosses kid is there 3 days out of the week crying very loudly, then he asks if you would mind watching the little bugger while he has a meeting with a client.
* offices that wont build models when it is really necessary.
* any office that you feel drained by after interviewing.
*Offices where they play Richard Clayderman and Lionel Richie through the office sound system
*Offices where you are considered the IT guy because you can set up email addresses
*Offices with project architects that start taking design elements out of the building because they believe the client wont want to pay for them so whats the point
*Offices whose sole design element is usually a "feature wall"
*Offices where you have to explain who Frank Gehry is
*Offices where the computers are so slow, it takes 5 seconds to select a line
*Offices in which the best design featured in their promotional material is so bad you dont know whether to laugh, cry or pull out a knife and make the world a better place
*Offices where, despite professional embarrassment, you are able to continue to work because your architecture buddies are in a different country and you can lie to them
*Offices where the principal will let you design a project, only to sit in on meetings with the client and change your design on the fly
*Offices located in a renovated 1980's faux colonial style house with rust coloured carpet
*Offices where they get design ideas from former employees who have moved on and obviously have more common sense.
I need another job...
Oct 4, 04 9:47 pm ·
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rejecting a job offer
Has anyone rejected a job offer after having an interview, because the office looked like a dump or had outdated computer systems and software?
I would never reject a job based on outdated computers and software. I base my decisions on my feelings about the type and quality of work and the dynamics/working process of the firm. If those things are good it wouldn't matter to me if they were producing their drawings with sticks in the dirt.
As far as the look of the office: it would depend on how much of a dump. If there is actual filth and/or if it seems that people don't have their own workspaces then I might hesitate. If it is one of those offices that has desks made of doors and has models and piles of paper on every surface I would not hold that against them. In my experience that usually means a few things: on the downside it can mean people are harried, frazzled, and possibly not too organized. On the up side it means the firm is probably very busy (so plenty of work), that interns in the firm spend their time on tasks other than cleaning/filing/organizing, and that the culture of the firm is not really uptight.
Before going into architecture, I had different jobs in different branches. Form plumbing to cleaning a law firm. So you can say I’ve seen many different offices form the inside. Still I was pretty amazed when I walked into an architectural firm for the first time. Not that I expected a well design interior what many people would expect from architects, but by the lack of taste and the effort to make it a little bit “officableâ€Â. I don’t think that money is the issue. You can get a good looking and large enough tabletop for 15 dollars at the Ikea.
It is difficult to say what I would or wouldn’t reject. For health reasons, I probably would not work in a firm that has a poor interior. I would get back problems working on an old cheap chair. But working for a firm where I would have to put in extra hours, because the computers are to slow isn’t an option either.
yep been there done that. first if the technology is not up to snuff, how can i expected to work efficiently? how can i trust my drawings won't disappear because of the shittiy computers, or lack of network? how can i take firm seriously, or expect clients to take my firm seriously, if the office looks like shit? how would anyone be comfortable in situation that looks and runs in a world of chaos?
yes.
Having worked on Macs/Archicad previously, when I was offered another job using the same plat/soft I said NO (just personal pref.)
I have rejected plenty of offers from large pharm/lab specializing offices where the avg. age was 55.
Not really seen many "dirty" offices...messy, yes but typically it's a good messy with sketches, models, and all sorts of creative crap laying around (like a school studio) Definitively reject if all of the desks are devoid of this.
reject;
*offices with receptionist and lobby
*offices with trimmed beard owners
*offices with large collection of fabric and formica samples
*offices with seperate design and production departments
*offices where you have to design as if your boss designed it
*offices covered by carpet
*office walls covered by owner's stupid sketches
*offices where the boss is regarded as wild and crazy genious
*offices where you are given a silly perspective sketch to turn it into architecture
*offices where you are assigned a workstation number
*offices where your boss drives a rich boys toy when your transportation is about to brake.
*offices where study models are forbidden.
just a few i can think of.these kind of places are usually waste of time.
*offices where the boss says "don't think, just draw".
*offices where the boss never pays you on time even though he drives a MB SL (whatever), owns a summer cottage, a sea going boat, 360 (acres?) of farm land, a very large house, and never works on Friday,
*offices where the boss does't have a clue how to use a computer.
*offices with any kind of yelling.
*offices walls covered by owner's stupid sketches... made to look like preliminary sketches but done months after construction was complete... and framed and signed!
Ridge, I completely disagree with Aluminate. I would DEFINITELY reject a job offer based on outdated computers and sotfware. Outdated computers can make your life HELL in an office, i'm speaking of experience. I've still got painful memories of trying to work on some shitty old macs that were so slow they could barely be used as calculators. absolute nightmare. Trust me it's just not worth the hassle and if the boss does not understand the need to keep up to date with technology then it's his/her problem and you should not have to sufffer the consequences of that. And it's ok to rejetct a job offer if you feel it's not suited to you, regardless of computers and facility.
gustav & abracadabra
I must tell you a few of those things you highlighted way funny because I used to work for people like that when I didn't have much of a choice - and said hell no never again.
here's more
* when the only magazines are about 20 years and is a copy of Architectural Digest
* the office has a strict policy against seeing the building until the opening ceremony <- I kid you not!
* when the principal says models are things you do in school
Yes, have rejected based on a firm that in 2001 was still running 486 computers with Arris software.
Also reject offices that hype their "innovative" office design when it's filled with Steelcase 9000 systems furniture.
Embrace offices that have a reception desk that was salvaged from an alteration of a strip club. Nothing beats a black and pink reception desk. (Interviewed there but didn't accept job because of better offer.)
I accepted the wrong job offer not too long ago and only stayed there for about 3 weeks. I couldn't wait to get out of there. (project type and office location is not the only thing to look for!)
the main reasons I quit:
1. outdated computer and plotters and printers made it really frustrating to do work.
2. not enough people with extensive experience to learn from
3. there were ROACHES!!!!!
4. got another offer with MUCH more money.
It seems to be very difficult to find the type of job that is very design oriented with big name projects and architects in the best location, with good computers, etc......and still pay higher than average salaries polled by the AIA.
i've known many architects who have had to change careers to engineering companys, contrators, industrial design,etc. for higher salaries.
*offices where the principal was having a neavous brakedown and his kid would go around the office hitting staff with the cardboard rolls from the large format printer.
*offices where projects were done in a week. aka Cowboy Design
*offices where one of the partners rings you on 9/11 and tells you to get back to work 'cause we gotta get America working again'
*offices where the reception is the 2nd highest paid employee, next to the principal
man my spelling is bad today...
*Offices where an employee stole all the tile samples to finish his bathroom floor in a rainbow of colors and textures.
*Offices where the new telephones were purchased by the owner at a hotel auction and still had the Holiday Inn writing on it.
*Offices that openly say they are not designers, but instead claim to be a "production firm."
*Offices where the principal has a triple shot of expresso every morning.
*Offices where the principal asks you every ten mins. "Are you done yet?"
*Offices when theres no work to do in the office the boss tells you to go to his house and wash his Bull Mastive.
*offices where the 4 people that work in the office still draft by hand.
* offices where the owners dog comes to work and is allowed to eat your lunch
* offices where the boss calls you in the hospital after you have just had a miscarriage and tells you if you are not in the office tomorrow he will dock your pay.
* offices where everyone dresses the same and says things like "brown is the new black..."
* offices that have had the front door padlocked by the IRS because the owner forgot to send the IRS the money he withheld from your paycheck.
* offices with clean cubicles
* offices where the boss makes you take a break every hour just so he can have someone to talk to when hes smoking, then complains when you aren't done with something.
* offices where the bosses kid is there 3 days out of the week crying very loudly, then he asks if you would mind watching the little bugger while he has a meeting with a client.
* offices that wont build models when it is really necessary.
* any office that you feel drained by after interviewing.
*Offices where they play Richard Clayderman and Lionel Richie through the office sound system
*Offices where you are considered the IT guy because you can set up email addresses
*Offices with project architects that start taking design elements out of the building because they believe the client wont want to pay for them so whats the point
*Offices whose sole design element is usually a "feature wall"
*Offices where you have to explain who Frank Gehry is
*Offices where the computers are so slow, it takes 5 seconds to select a line
*Offices in which the best design featured in their promotional material is so bad you dont know whether to laugh, cry or pull out a knife and make the world a better place
*Offices where, despite professional embarrassment, you are able to continue to work because your architecture buddies are in a different country and you can lie to them
*Offices where the principal will let you design a project, only to sit in on meetings with the client and change your design on the fly
*Offices located in a renovated 1980's faux colonial style house with rust coloured carpet
*Offices where they get design ideas from former employees who have moved on and obviously have more common sense.
I need another job...
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