In a previous thread, I asked about the ways I might go about working in L.A. as a recent BA graduate from the UK. This stimulated some interesting responces.
My question now is one of payment, as I've really struggled to get information so far because of the differences in the US and UK education systems and culture. If I were working in London I could expect 16-17,000 GBP/year. I know it is quite common for US students to take internships (which I now understand to be integrated into their studies at a more frequent rate - i.e. they work whilst studying, rather than in-between degrees) without payment. This I could not do. I would have to apply for a practical training visa (J-1) in conjunction with an employer (they'd sponsor me). I have a fear that because I'm there explicitly in terms of practical training an employer would feel he or she needn't pay me, or at least pay me a working wage. Please, what is common practice? I have fallen for San Fransisco after a recent trip and would love to work there, but I need to be earning to do so.
i believe bush and blair have worked out some anti-slavery trading agreement for specifically part i practical training interns coming from cambridge so dont worry. [unless bush and blair lose their elections....it was flaunted as bushes best economic program and as it was only done on a handshake]
i hate the use of the term 'intern' here as many employer call any 'un licensed degreeed employees' that as i believe 'an intern' in any so-called profession can be paid less. there are no rules[formal-only ethical], but no matter if you are seeking a practical training visa or not. you should be paid based upon your experience [previous work] and skills.
there are those 'staritects' that have been known to take on students for the privilage and honor of working for the office. its not tied to visa status and i would expect to find similar things in the uk.
your salary equate to about 30.5k or $15/ hour which i think might be on the upper side if you have 0 experience. maybe $13-14. but under the visa program, you do not have social security or medicare take out and once you leave the us you can apply for income tax rebate so considering that its probably the same. house cost the same if you flateshare. public transit -- much cheaper.
as much as you might say eeeek, gensler and hok have uk/sf offices so you might be able to coordinate all of that through the london side [they will pay you fairly]. som has a good sf office but as i understand have virtually closed the uk shop. once you get there, look around, you are allowed to change employers [ask for details before you go this route].
Gensler's LA office seems to need intern architects. That is what your heading will be until you start to move up in the company. I work at Gensler SF and a starting intern gets roughly $14/hr, 401k, sick days, holidays, vacation days, health insurance, and a x-mas bonus.
Thanks - that's made me feel much more optimistic and generally better. The 16-17,000 GBP I gave as a figure would be for London, where wages are slightly higher than elsewhere usually. (Although, having said this, I know of some firms based in the provinces that have had to increase wages to compensate for the excitement of city life.)
I had been thinking of applying to a larger company already, as they seem much more stable and used to foreign interns. I've worked in a small firm for three months thus far, and I quite fancy a change in scale, so this seems as appropriate a time as any.
Wouldn't touch L.A., not after having been there, and especially not after having had such a great time in San Fransisco. And I rather like what I hear of Gensler, as empolyers if not designers.
Thanks.
Any other big firms in SF? Or firms needing interns, if you know?
So, even though I can apply for jobs from the U.K., and even apply for a training visa to work legally, in theory I cannot attend an interview. Is this a mere technicality which has little effect on the process of getting a job if you are a non-U.S. citizen? Has anyone been refused entry because they were bringing portfolio work with them and appeared then to be soliciting themselves? Will companies refuse to interview you? Is it a mere matter or wording?
Thanks. It'd be pretty crummy to be ejected, no matter how unlikely that seems.
usually a j-1 visa refers to a visiting scholar. you'd be j-1 if you were doing a fulbright program in the us, for example. means you're a student but tuition is covered by a big scholarship thing.
you should check out the us immigration site. google it [i've lost the link]. they have several categories to apply for a work visa. usually they all involve getting a job first. the company has to justify hiring a foreigner [i understand they need to prove they tried to hire an american but weren't able to- sometimes they need to put an add in the paper for a while to prove no american could do that job]
i'm on a similar boat but haven't been able to research fully. easiest way to get a work visa is coming as a student [f-1] then getting practical training, and then switching to work visa. that's very straightforward. getting a work visa directly seems incredibly hard [except for supermodels- they have a visa category all their own]
ps. you can easily go into the us with a tourist visa to interview- don't worry, they won't kick you out if they see your portfolio. you should talk to an immigration lawyer though. some companies are not worth talking to - they'll just rather not deal with visa issues, so even if they love you they won't hire you.
alan, sorry, i got confused. never mind me. i'm looking at a different scenario completely, which is trying to get a work visa for the us [nearly impossible, need lawyer]. for what you're looking for, lawyer should not be necessary.
Okay, so my search is gaining momentum, but unfortunately San Francisco doesn't seem to have as many firms as I had thought. (I have the SF AIA's 2004 Firm Profile book, and this lists all the AIA accredited firms.)
Anyway, with the intention of making the best of my chances (obviously), here is my resume and some examples of my work. Brian Friels had some very good advice for his resume (and, in fact, I know of several people who have replicated his two column format, after being so taken with it - hope he doesn't mind), and I hope that you guys might be so kind as to make similarly constructive observations. Of course, if you know of anyone looking for an intern/junior architect in San Francisco or Los Angeles, then it would be truly amazing to push their details my way, or my resume theirs.
Some workers in the US take a "working lunch" where they eat lunch while working, yet are not getting paid for the time as per US Occupational laws and regulations.
Now tell me how that is moral, let alone enjoyable.
Alan, That's good to hear. I think that the extremely long thread documenting the evolution of my resume will be very beneficial to many. I'm sure I wasn't the first to use two columns on a resume, however I'll expect my royalty fee in the mail next week. ha Good luck with the job hunt. Keep us posted. Who knows if I don't end up going overseas I might head over towards the West coast as well.
Alan: don't limit your search to just AIA firms. The AIA is a professional organization (in other words a club) - not a licensing organization (it has no actual authority to regulate architects, make laws, etc.) Not all architecture firms are AIA firms - and this has absolutely nothing to do with their "accreditation." It's estimated that 65% to 75% of registered architects in the US are AIA members. The majority of very large architecture firms are AIA member firms, whereas many more small firms aren't. (This can have reasons ranging from the expense of annual AIA dues to general disagreement with AIA policies, to disappointment with lack of advocacy by the AIA, or any combo of those and other factors - but doesn't indicate anything about the quality or professionalism of the firm.)
Since the AIA is a starting point for a lot of job-hunters, it can actually be a very good strategy to get hold of a list of ALL the architecture firms in a region and start with the firms that are NOT AIA firms - because these firms are often overlooked by many job seekers. Get the phone book (yellow pages) and cross-reference it with your AIA list. Then start with the firms that are not on both lists!
Yikes. Looking on the Yellow Pages' website I've managed to find 178 firms, probably half of which are not in AIA (I've already cross referenced). But it's now darned hard to see which are worth contacting - they don't list websites, which has been very helpful to me in the AIA's directory.
How do people usually job hunt when they are without connections? (I have a few, but lets forget that for now.) I'm just working my way through both lists, checking websites and spending hours on the phone. E-mailing resumes when I have had a conversation. And of course, from tomorrow, printing hard copies for the firms I'd most like to work for.
about the visas, the H1 quota is already full for this year (until oct 2005, they might change the law after the election) , but keep looking most firms can recomend you a good lawyer and sometimes pay for it,
Don't be affraid of small firms, they can support visa, but if is small be prepared to be a little bit (lot?) underpaid, sometimes.
Most companies don't want to support because either they dont know the reality, or because they have to show more info to the gov, taxes and payroll and that kind of things
Sometimes they can hire you , pay you cash or dont pay you at all until you get your visa and then give you some bonuses, for the delay salary.
There are other categories such as H3 and some others ( in some cases the firm has to be profesional), check with a lawyer, try to find one that give you a first consultation free.
On the issue of visas, I have found that a J-1 Practical Traing Visa will be the easiest to obtain. The Association of International Practical Training is sponsored by the US government to review applications, to assess whether or not an individual will be trained or is merely working and not developing further (www.aipt.org - also see CIEE, by way of Google). As an intern or junior architect, one is implicitly learning and being trained. I pay them, they look through, give me forms for the J-1, I fill that in, go get my visa - quite simple, as long as I can find a company with work that will say, "yes we'll hire you", and "yes, we'll spend the twenty minutes it takes to fill these few forms in". As far as I am aware, there is no quota on the J-1 visa. It is not, however, transferable.
But, yes, San Franciscan firms in need of workers anyone???!!!
Okay, so things have moved on somewhat since my last post. Apparently $25,000/year is an average salary for an intern in SF. Intern, not as in part-time at school, but as full time and between UK degrees (undergraduate and diploma). What do we think?
alan, so you have graduated with a bARCH. tell me if i misunderstand, you are looking to go to SF as an intern, meaning as intern status after graduation and before licensure?
i am an intern, as i just graduated with a bARCH, moved to SF, and i make alot more than 25,000.
i would check the bureau of labor statistics and try to see what you can find. i think you should expect well over 34,000 a year full time with an accredited degree.
Yes, I have a BArch, and will in a year or two go on to get a diploma. The British system consists of a three year BArch (which I've just done) a year in industry (which I'd now like to do in SF), a two year diploma, and then a year in industry before part three examination and registration with ARB (Architects' Registration Board) as an Architect.
I guess, merversusyou, that you've just finished grad school? and have a period as a junior architect to now undertake before registering? Perhaps I am mistaken. Anyway, that's my situation. I've about 8 months experience in practice - although fragmented, in summers and whatnot. And I'll be the first to admit that I've got some hard work to do to be profitable for a company. Still, $25K seems a little low, certainly lower than the $34K equivalent one would ask for in London. But, then, I know the two aren't really comparable in terms of cost of living.
It'd be cool if I could call you - might be quicker and easier. If you feel you might be willing to let me, just e-mail your mber.
Where are you working right now?
Dec 11, 04 7:50 pm ·
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Working in the US
In a previous thread, I asked about the ways I might go about working in L.A. as a recent BA graduate from the UK. This stimulated some interesting responces.
My question now is one of payment, as I've really struggled to get information so far because of the differences in the US and UK education systems and culture. If I were working in London I could expect 16-17,000 GBP/year. I know it is quite common for US students to take internships (which I now understand to be integrated into their studies at a more frequent rate - i.e. they work whilst studying, rather than in-between degrees) without payment. This I could not do. I would have to apply for a practical training visa (J-1) in conjunction with an employer (they'd sponsor me). I have a fear that because I'm there explicitly in terms of practical training an employer would feel he or she needn't pay me, or at least pay me a working wage. Please, what is common practice? I have fallen for San Fransisco after a recent trip and would love to work there, but I need to be earning to do so.
Thanks,
Alan
i believe bush and blair have worked out some anti-slavery trading agreement for specifically part i practical training interns coming from cambridge so dont worry. [unless bush and blair lose their elections....it was flaunted as bushes best economic program and as it was only done on a handshake]
i hate the use of the term 'intern' here as many employer call any 'un licensed degreeed employees' that as i believe 'an intern' in any so-called profession can be paid less. there are no rules[formal-only ethical], but no matter if you are seeking a practical training visa or not. you should be paid based upon your experience [previous work] and skills.
there are those 'staritects' that have been known to take on students for the privilage and honor of working for the office. its not tied to visa status and i would expect to find similar things in the uk.
your salary equate to about 30.5k or $15/ hour which i think might be on the upper side if you have 0 experience. maybe $13-14. but under the visa program, you do not have social security or medicare take out and once you leave the us you can apply for income tax rebate so considering that its probably the same. house cost the same if you flateshare. public transit -- much cheaper.
as much as you might say eeeek, gensler and hok have uk/sf offices so you might be able to coordinate all of that through the london side [they will pay you fairly]. som has a good sf office but as i understand have virtually closed the uk shop. once you get there, look around, you are allowed to change employers [ask for details before you go this route].
Gensler's LA office seems to need intern architects. That is what your heading will be until you start to move up in the company. I work at Gensler SF and a starting intern gets roughly $14/hr, 401k, sick days, holidays, vacation days, health insurance, and a x-mas bonus.
http://www.gensler.com/careers/joblisting.html
I think it is a good place to start out, but a majority of there designs aren't terribly exciting.
Thanks - that's made me feel much more optimistic and generally better. The 16-17,000 GBP I gave as a figure would be for London, where wages are slightly higher than elsewhere usually. (Although, having said this, I know of some firms based in the provinces that have had to increase wages to compensate for the excitement of city life.)
I had been thinking of applying to a larger company already, as they seem much more stable and used to foreign interns. I've worked in a small firm for three months thus far, and I quite fancy a change in scale, so this seems as appropriate a time as any.
Wouldn't touch L.A., not after having been there, and especially not after having had such a great time in San Fransisco. And I rather like what I hear of Gensler, as empolyers if not designers.
Thanks.
Any other big firms in SF? Or firms needing interns, if you know?
When I asked of firms needing interns, what I meant was any sized firm in SF, rather than any full stop. Hope that makes sense.
Gensler, SOM, KMD, Chong Partners, Anshen + Allen, HOK
These are the big firms that I can think of in San Francisco. I know that Gensler, SOM, KMD, and HOK have many other offices.
Technically, it seems that it is illegal to travel to the U.S. with the active intention of gaining employment: http://www.internshipusa.org/find/employers/index.html
So, even though I can apply for jobs from the U.K., and even apply for a training visa to work legally, in theory I cannot attend an interview. Is this a mere technicality which has little effect on the process of getting a job if you are a non-U.S. citizen? Has anyone been refused entry because they were bringing portfolio work with them and appeared then to be soliciting themselves? Will companies refuse to interview you? Is it a mere matter or wording?
Thanks. It'd be pretty crummy to be ejected, no matter how unlikely that seems.
See 'Telephone Interview' from that hyperlink.
alan,
usually a j-1 visa refers to a visiting scholar. you'd be j-1 if you were doing a fulbright program in the us, for example. means you're a student but tuition is covered by a big scholarship thing.
you should check out the us immigration site. google it [i've lost the link]. they have several categories to apply for a work visa. usually they all involve getting a job first. the company has to justify hiring a foreigner [i understand they need to prove they tried to hire an american but weren't able to- sometimes they need to put an add in the paper for a while to prove no american could do that job]
i'm on a similar boat but haven't been able to research fully. easiest way to get a work visa is coming as a student [f-1] then getting practical training, and then switching to work visa. that's very straightforward. getting a work visa directly seems incredibly hard [except for supermodels- they have a visa category all their own]
ps. you can easily go into the us with a tourist visa to interview- don't worry, they won't kick you out if they see your portfolio. you should talk to an immigration lawyer though. some companies are not worth talking to - they'll just rather not deal with visa issues, so even if they love you they won't hire you.
pps. oops, just saw your link. seems j-1 also applies to internships. sorry but whole us visa nightmare is very convoluted to me.
An immigration lawyer? Seriously? Isn't that expensive and what not? Or in your last posting areyou now saying that it's unnecessary?
alan, sorry, i got confused. never mind me. i'm looking at a different scenario completely, which is trying to get a work visa for the us [nearly impossible, need lawyer]. for what you're looking for, lawyer should not be necessary.
Okay, so my search is gaining momentum, but unfortunately San Francisco doesn't seem to have as many firms as I had thought. (I have the SF AIA's 2004 Firm Profile book, and this lists all the AIA accredited firms.)
Anyway, with the intention of making the best of my chances (obviously), here is my resume and some examples of my work. Brian Friels had some very good advice for his resume (and, in fact, I know of several people who have replicated his two column format, after being so taken with it - hope he doesn't mind), and I hope that you guys might be so kind as to make similarly constructive observations. Of course, if you know of anyone looking for an intern/junior architect in San Francisco or Los Angeles, then it would be truly amazing to push their details my way, or my resume theirs.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
-- Alan
Some workers in the US take a "working lunch" where they eat lunch while working, yet are not getting paid for the time as per US Occupational laws and regulations.
Now tell me how that is moral, let alone enjoyable.
Alan, That's good to hear. I think that the extremely long thread documenting the evolution of my resume will be very beneficial to many. I'm sure I wasn't the first to use two columns on a resume, however I'll expect my royalty fee in the mail next week. ha Good luck with the job hunt. Keep us posted. Who knows if I don't end up going overseas I might head over towards the West coast as well.
So are you still searching Brian? And still at university? Or working in some other temporary field?
I'd forgotten how demoralising job hunts are. Good luck with yours.
I'm workin on my Thesis Alan. I'll finish architecture this December and complete Business in May. Then its off to the hunt.
Alan: don't limit your search to just AIA firms. The AIA is a professional organization (in other words a club) - not a licensing organization (it has no actual authority to regulate architects, make laws, etc.) Not all architecture firms are AIA firms - and this has absolutely nothing to do with their "accreditation." It's estimated that 65% to 75% of registered architects in the US are AIA members. The majority of very large architecture firms are AIA member firms, whereas many more small firms aren't. (This can have reasons ranging from the expense of annual AIA dues to general disagreement with AIA policies, to disappointment with lack of advocacy by the AIA, or any combo of those and other factors - but doesn't indicate anything about the quality or professionalism of the firm.)
Since the AIA is a starting point for a lot of job-hunters, it can actually be a very good strategy to get hold of a list of ALL the architecture firms in a region and start with the firms that are NOT AIA firms - because these firms are often overlooked by many job seekers. Get the phone book (yellow pages) and cross-reference it with your AIA list. Then start with the firms that are not on both lists!
Yikes. Looking on the Yellow Pages' website I've managed to find 178 firms, probably half of which are not in AIA (I've already cross referenced). But it's now darned hard to see which are worth contacting - they don't list websites, which has been very helpful to me in the AIA's directory.
How do people usually job hunt when they are without connections? (I have a few, but lets forget that for now.) I'm just working my way through both lists, checking websites and spending hours on the phone. E-mailing resumes when I have had a conversation. And of course, from tomorrow, printing hard copies for the firms I'd most like to work for.
Hmmm. Any good survival tips?
about the visas, the H1 quota is already full for this year (until oct 2005, they might change the law after the election) , but keep looking most firms can recomend you a good lawyer and sometimes pay for it,
Don't be affraid of small firms, they can support visa, but if is small be prepared to be a little bit (lot?) underpaid, sometimes.
Most companies don't want to support because either they dont know the reality, or because they have to show more info to the gov, taxes and payroll and that kind of things
Sometimes they can hire you , pay you cash or dont pay you at all until you get your visa and then give you some bonuses, for the delay salary.
There are other categories such as H3 and some others ( in some cases the firm has to be profesional), check with a lawyer, try to find one that give you a first consultation free.
Don't give up.
Good luck.
if you get h1 from one company then you can transfer it
On the issue of visas, I have found that a J-1 Practical Traing Visa will be the easiest to obtain. The Association of International Practical Training is sponsored by the US government to review applications, to assess whether or not an individual will be trained or is merely working and not developing further (www.aipt.org - also see CIEE, by way of Google). As an intern or junior architect, one is implicitly learning and being trained. I pay them, they look through, give me forms for the J-1, I fill that in, go get my visa - quite simple, as long as I can find a company with work that will say, "yes we'll hire you", and "yes, we'll spend the twenty minutes it takes to fill these few forms in". As far as I am aware, there is no quota on the J-1 visa. It is not, however, transferable.
But, yes, San Franciscan firms in need of workers anyone???!!!
Okay, so things have moved on somewhat since my last post. Apparently $25,000/year is an average salary for an intern in SF. Intern, not as in part-time at school, but as full time and between UK degrees (undergraduate and diploma). What do we think?
And, yes, I've looked through the salary poll.
Thanking you in advance.
-- Alan
alan, so you have graduated with a bARCH. tell me if i misunderstand, you are looking to go to SF as an intern, meaning as intern status after graduation and before licensure?
i am an intern, as i just graduated with a bARCH, moved to SF, and i make alot more than 25,000.
i would check the bureau of labor statistics and try to see what you can find. i think you should expect well over 34,000 a year full time with an accredited degree.
ps, if you like san francisco, try
www.aiasf.org
www.craigslist.org
www.sfgate.com
meversusyou:
Yes, I have a BArch, and will in a year or two go on to get a diploma. The British system consists of a three year BArch (which I've just done) a year in industry (which I'd now like to do in SF), a two year diploma, and then a year in industry before part three examination and registration with ARB (Architects' Registration Board) as an Architect.
I guess, merversusyou, that you've just finished grad school? and have a period as a junior architect to now undertake before registering? Perhaps I am mistaken. Anyway, that's my situation. I've about 8 months experience in practice - although fragmented, in summers and whatnot. And I'll be the first to admit that I've got some hard work to do to be profitable for a company. Still, $25K seems a little low, certainly lower than the $34K equivalent one would ask for in London. But, then, I know the two aren't really comparable in terms of cost of living.
It'd be cool if I could call you - might be quicker and easier. If you feel you might be willing to let me, just e-mail your mber.
Where are you working right now?
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