A few weeks ago, we (being the design students of Philadephia University) recieved an e-mail stating that we would start being charged for plotting at $.99 a sq. ft. after our first 50 sq. ft. (note: we must also supply plotter paper). Now, I personally do not have a HUGE Problem with this proposal. Regardless, many of my colleagues are starting to become irritated and restless, threatening to burn down the A+D Center and such.
So I am looking to other students and/or professors and/or professionals who know of any other schools that do charge their students to plot. If so, how much, how frequently, etc.? I am hoping to collect some data to: 1) hush the mouths of some of the very ignorant students who are starting to irk me and 2) collect some facts that could lead to a negotiation with our university to hopefully reconsider, at least, the cost per plot, the supplying of paper, etc.
if they didnt charge then the students would be printing all day........... learn to do shit right the first time........ remember rgb/cmyk between colors in programs and plotters.....
in fact...... plot just lines and use some skills and hand render/shadows
I believe that's pretty much standard, at least it has been at all of the schools that I've been at. I don't remember what our "allowance" was at UF and GaTech (been too long), but I'm currently at Penn and we get $50 to start the semester with and after that we have to pay.
is that 99 cents a square foot for full color photo glossy? or black and white line plots on bond? if it's the latter then it seems like a lot. here in so cal i go to a place where they charge the same per linear foot.
Graduated from Penn 2 years ago- this was pretty much standard practice. We didn't have to supply the paper, but am sure that was factored into the cost to print. B&W prints were cheaper than color obviously, as were letter v/s 11x17.
I'm actually surprised that they were NOT charging you up until now. Perhaps you can negotiate for the school to at least supply the paper. Logistically, I can't see how it would make sense for each student to load/ unload their own paper.
another one from penn - last year it was $1.40 or 1.50/sf to plot on mylar and photo imaging satin paper (doesn't matter if it's b/w or color). plain white paper is cheaper, can't remember how much though.
it doesn't seem unreasonable, but it does seem a bit cumbersome to require people to supply their own paper. why not pay a bit more (1.10? 1.25?) per sf and forego the hassle of changing out paper and such.
50sf would garner you 8+ 24x36 plots -- which would seem to be enough per semester unless you're a total maniac. Print the proofs on the crappy 11x17 printer that you get for free (assuming you do -- and if not then that's a whole other issue -- they have to allow you some sheet fed option for free...)
It's also good practice for when you work in an office. Clients hate to see and probably will not pay for thousands of dollars of test plots. Like cryz said above: learn to get it right the first time.
plotting black and white = $.99 for a 18x24, $1.99 for a 24x36 $2.99 for a 36x42...any other size results in a default charge of $99.99
(paper is either standard bond or some semi-transparent version...you never know which is loaded. typically, one or both machines is out of order with the college of arch. waiting on the university for a print-system update)
color plotting, on glossy, white, photo paper, up to 42" wide is $9.00 a linear foot which is $2.57 a square foot. (these are staffed by students and usually work)
8.5x11 b/w are $.07, 11x17 b/w are $.14, 8.5x11 color are $0.50 (and usually on standard copy paper) and 11x17 color are $.99
we can't run anything through the printer other than what's loaded, but we don't have to provide our own paper.
at the KSU Cleveland Urban Design Collaborative, we pay a $100 print fee for generally "unlimited" use of the color plotter on standard bond paper, and a b/w/color copier. The CUDC is also a working office, so things tend to get fixed.
# Clear Sticky printer:
* 8.5" x 11" transparency or sticky back: $0.49
* Draft Plotting:$0.28
* Low-end plotting:$0.65
o (includes: roll 1: heavy bond, roll 2: satin gloss)
* High-end plotting:$0.83
o (includes: roll 1: vellum, roll 2: Mylar, roll 3: transparency)
* Custom Plotting
o 60" Heavy Bond: $1.00/ sq.ft.
o 60" Satin Gloss: $2.00/sq.ft.
o 36" canvas: $4.00/sq.ft.
i remember being charged for it as well
and there were a whole 3 plotters that the undergrad and grad got to share
lets just say that finals week was a lot of fun trying to get stuff printed
i think its an incredible luxury if a school doesnt make you pay to plot
all the wasted plots would cost a ton of money if people knew they didnt have to make sure thei had it right the first time
plus, didnt that clog up your printers? i would htink that would have made people plot a lot more, meaning a lot more volume being printed
The way my school did it is that we would be charged a lab fee and each of us would also have accounts that would be billed when plotting. I liked this method and I definitely thought it worked out.
Wow. They're charging now? The didn't when I was there. Sorry to hear that.
Changing out paper wasn't a big deal. It allowed students to plot on whatever they wanted. Sketch, watercolour, trace, news print, you name it.
Students at PhilaU have always been angry, so no change there. Unless they have improved the plotters, though, and have more of them than the 3 they had when I was there, then I'd be upset too. And 8 24x36 sheets is not enough. Not when that could be a whole presentation, and you ahve to present once every couple of weeks.
And they only gave an allowance for regular paper prints too. Kids in Thesis ran out of those pretty fast.
If it becomes a real issue, talk to Scott. Good Luck with that, though.
It also discourages people from tying up the plotter all damn day printing a hi-res image of kittens or baby seals at 36 x 48 to hang in their dorm room.
Scott's been fired...i guess this could have been foreseen, however the limit is pretty low. it definitely should be increased to twice that, at least that should cover a mid crit and final crit - maybe?
I always felt that Thesis students should be allowed more allowance for printing, though. Maybe it should be increased every year you're there? 1st and 2nd year students dont need to plot.
And 4arch, nobody ever used the plotter for kittens and such, since you did have to provide your own paper, but the Industrial and fashion desing students did start to infiltrate and use our plotters. We Archi's can be pretty territorial. Maybe the limit is really to address that?
We had to pay for plots, but we did not need to provide our own paper. B+W 8.5" x 11" was free.
A few of us ended up up splitting the cost of buying a used plotter and we all bought our own ink. At the end of the 3 years we were together we sold the plotter and recouped almost all of the cost....
we saved a lot of money, so it might be something to consider.
Between 4 of us we paid $1700 for an HP (don't remember the model). We got a good deal from a firm near our school and we ended up getting $900 back after 2 years of use.
oh wow thats not bad at all
so you were able to do all your large plots on it?
there was always talk of something like that in my studio, but no one ever really got it rolling
plus there was like 9-12 of us every semester, and coordinating with that many people would have been a nightmare, ie 4 of us would have constantly paid for everything
Ya, we could do large plots...color looked okay. In my senior studio I ended up having the school plot it for the best quality.
The 4 of us were roomates and didn't usually have the same studio (just kept the plotter in the room). During finals there were lots of people that of course left everything to the last minute and needed to plot, so we charged people to come and use it. Sometimes it paid for more than our expenses.
Ya, I would also not suggest coordinating 9 people. Just think when you have to start plotting for a crit and everyone is waiting to use it. It could get ugly.
Oct 10, 08 1:59 pm ·
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Students paying to PLOT!? Blasphemy! or is it.
So,
A few weeks ago, we (being the design students of Philadephia University) recieved an e-mail stating that we would start being charged for plotting at $.99 a sq. ft. after our first 50 sq. ft. (note: we must also supply plotter paper). Now, I personally do not have a HUGE Problem with this proposal. Regardless, many of my colleagues are starting to become irritated and restless, threatening to burn down the A+D Center and such.
So I am looking to other students and/or professors and/or professionals who know of any other schools that do charge their students to plot. If so, how much, how frequently, etc.? I am hoping to collect some data to: 1) hush the mouths of some of the very ignorant students who are starting to irk me and 2) collect some facts that could lead to a negotiation with our university to hopefully reconsider, at least, the cost per plot, the supplying of paper, etc.
Thanks to all.
if they didnt charge then the students would be printing all day........... learn to do shit right the first time........ remember rgb/cmyk between colors in programs and plotters.....
in fact...... plot just lines and use some skills and hand render/shadows
b
I believe that's pretty much standard, at least it has been at all of the schools that I've been at. I don't remember what our "allowance" was at UF and GaTech (been too long), but I'm currently at Penn and we get $50 to start the semester with and after that we have to pay.
At the University of Tennessee we had to pay for all prints except b/w 8.5x11 and 11x17.
Montana State did this when I was in grad school a few years ago. It still ended up being more inexpensive than plotting at an outside company.
i thought the architects formerly know as PLOT were charging the students money for letting them use their designs.
is that 99 cents a square foot for full color photo glossy? or black and white line plots on bond? if it's the latter then it seems like a lot. here in so cal i go to a place where they charge the same per linear foot.
Graduated from Penn 2 years ago- this was pretty much standard practice. We didn't have to supply the paper, but am sure that was factored into the cost to print. B&W prints were cheaper than color obviously, as were letter v/s 11x17.
I'm actually surprised that they were NOT charging you up until now. Perhaps you can negotiate for the school to at least supply the paper. Logistically, I can't see how it would make sense for each student to load/ unload their own paper.
students at georgia tech pay to plot. hell, when i was in grad/undergrate umpteen years ago, we had to pay to plot and even print in b/w laser.
it sounds like you all were the exception, not the rule.
another one from penn - last year it was $1.40 or 1.50/sf to plot on mylar and photo imaging satin paper (doesn't matter if it's b/w or color). plain white paper is cheaper, can't remember how much though.
it doesn't seem unreasonable, but it does seem a bit cumbersome to require people to supply their own paper. why not pay a bit more (1.10? 1.25?) per sf and forego the hassle of changing out paper and such.
50sf would garner you 8+ 24x36 plots -- which would seem to be enough per semester unless you're a total maniac. Print the proofs on the crappy 11x17 printer that you get for free (assuming you do -- and if not then that's a whole other issue -- they have to allow you some sheet fed option for free...)
It's also good practice for when you work in an office. Clients hate to see and probably will not pay for thousands of dollars of test plots. Like cryz said above: learn to get it right the first time.
Kent State Univeristy:
plotting black and white = $.99 for a 18x24, $1.99 for a 24x36 $2.99 for a 36x42...any other size results in a default charge of $99.99
(paper is either standard bond or some semi-transparent version...you never know which is loaded. typically, one or both machines is out of order with the college of arch. waiting on the university for a print-system update)
color plotting, on glossy, white, photo paper, up to 42" wide is $9.00 a linear foot which is $2.57 a square foot. (these are staffed by students and usually work)
8.5x11 b/w are $.07, 11x17 b/w are $.14, 8.5x11 color are $0.50 (and usually on standard copy paper) and 11x17 color are $.99
we can't run anything through the printer other than what's loaded, but we don't have to provide our own paper.
at the KSU Cleveland Urban Design Collaborative, we pay a $100 print fee for generally "unlimited" use of the color plotter on standard bond paper, and a b/w/color copier. The CUDC is also a working office, so things tend to get fixed.
you were plotting for free!? hell, we get charged 10 cents to plot a pdf on the school computers (think its a bug, looking into that now..)
but in all seriousness
University at Buffalo:
Color laser prints:
* 8.5" x 11": $0.43
* 11" x 17": $0.86
# Portfolio laser prints:
* 8.5" x 11": $0.53(80lb. cover stock, 90 lbs soft gloss cover stock)
* 11" x 17": $1.08 (80 lbs cover stock)
# Clear Sticky printer:
* 8.5" x 11" transparency or sticky back: $0.49
* Draft Plotting:$0.28
* Low-end plotting:$0.65
o (includes: roll 1: heavy bond, roll 2: satin gloss)
* High-end plotting:$0.83
o (includes: roll 1: vellum, roll 2: Mylar, roll 3: transparency)
* Custom Plotting
o 60" Heavy Bond: $1.00/ sq.ft.
o 60" Satin Gloss: $2.00/sq.ft.
o 36" canvas: $4.00/sq.ft.
b+w on bond $1.00/sf
colour on bond $1.50/sf
allowance $0.00
no need for fire...
They definitely charge us at Cornell, to plot and to print!
i remember being charged for it as well
and there were a whole 3 plotters that the undergrad and grad got to share
lets just say that finals week was a lot of fun trying to get stuff printed
i think its an incredible luxury if a school doesnt make you pay to plot
all the wasted plots would cost a ton of money if people knew they didnt have to make sure thei had it right the first time
plus, didnt that clog up your printers? i would htink that would have made people plot a lot more, meaning a lot more volume being printed
and any of your fellow students getting all up in arms about this is quite ridiculous i would think
tell them they are in the probably 1% of schools that let them print for free till now, so they have been getting a steal of a deal
The way my school did it is that we would be charged a lab fee and each of us would also have accounts that would be billed when plotting. I liked this method and I definitely thought it worked out.
Wow. They're charging now? The didn't when I was there. Sorry to hear that.
Changing out paper wasn't a big deal. It allowed students to plot on whatever they wanted. Sketch, watercolour, trace, news print, you name it.
Students at PhilaU have always been angry, so no change there. Unless they have improved the plotters, though, and have more of them than the 3 they had when I was there, then I'd be upset too. And 8 24x36 sheets is not enough. Not when that could be a whole presentation, and you ahve to present once every couple of weeks.
And they only gave an allowance for regular paper prints too. Kids in Thesis ran out of those pretty fast.
If it becomes a real issue, talk to Scott. Good Luck with that, though.
The charge discourages waste and inefficiency.
It also discourages people from tying up the plotter all damn day printing a hi-res image of kittens or baby seals at 36 x 48 to hang in their dorm room.
Scott's been fired...i guess this could have been foreseen, however the limit is pretty low. it definitely should be increased to twice that, at least that should cover a mid crit and final crit - maybe?
Wow. Can't say I'm suprised.
I always felt that Thesis students should be allowed more allowance for printing, though. Maybe it should be increased every year you're there? 1st and 2nd year students dont need to plot.
And 4arch, nobody ever used the plotter for kittens and such, since you did have to provide your own paper, but the Industrial and fashion desing students did start to infiltrate and use our plotters. We Archi's can be pretty territorial. Maybe the limit is really to address that?
I think you should be happy you get something for free at all. We had to pay for printing anything.
We had to pay for plots, but we did not need to provide our own paper. B+W 8.5" x 11" was free.
A few of us ended up up splitting the cost of buying a used plotter and we all bought our own ink. At the end of the 3 years we were together we sold the plotter and recouped almost all of the cost....
we saved a lot of money, so it might be something to consider.
reflexive space-
dont you know philau students are ENTITLED? we shouldnt have to pay for anything.
i'm being sarcastic of course, but thats the attitude of many of the students.
the school was hemorrhaging money in plotting costs which gary kept hidden some how...
oh wow
how much did you have to pay for the plotter?
Between 4 of us we paid $1700 for an HP (don't remember the model). We got a good deal from a firm near our school and we ended up getting $900 back after 2 years of use.
oh wow thats not bad at all
so you were able to do all your large plots on it?
there was always talk of something like that in my studio, but no one ever really got it rolling
plus there was like 9-12 of us every semester, and coordinating with that many people would have been a nightmare, ie 4 of us would have constantly paid for everything
Ya, we could do large plots...color looked okay. In my senior studio I ended up having the school plot it for the best quality.
The 4 of us were roomates and didn't usually have the same studio (just kept the plotter in the room). During finals there were lots of people that of course left everything to the last minute and needed to plot, so we charged people to come and use it. Sometimes it paid for more than our expenses.
Ya, I would also not suggest coordinating 9 people. Just think when you have to start plotting for a crit and everyone is waiting to use it. It could get ugly.
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