heard of many successful architect-contractor companies..? it makes a lot of sense, and could potentially lead to a good transfer of knowledge back and forth - rather than the usual adverserial one... but too much for 1 place to do? conflict of interest?
related:
“We’re increasingly interested in the idea of direct building,”
de Rijke said. “We’re planning to build a fabrication workshop near our studio to develop engineered timber building elements such as walls, windows and doors at a one-to-one scale.”
But Nord director Alan Pert expressed doubts as to whether the idea would catch on. Pert, whose firm has made furniture and ceramic work for projects, suggested acting as a contractor could create a conflict of interest.
“If you are both contractor and contract administrator, that could lead to problems,” he said.
A spokesman for the Major Contractors Group said it shared these reservations, adding that it was watching the Heatherwick project with interest. “It is too early to say if this is a trend,” he said. “Whether architects have the resources to take over the role of main contractor on all their projects, we’ll have to wait and see.”
some design/build firms are just licensed builders that do smaller projects. theres good cash in it if you can locate your business in a rich area and just do renovations/additions to homes.
i say its a good idea to get your feet wet in that avenue
thanks cryzko. i guessed that there'd be decent money in D&B but i cant imagine that even the best of the D&B contractors actually put much design emphasise on their project...
i didn't quite clarify this, but i was generally trying to talk more about successful/innovative/forward-thinking architectural firms that have an inhouse contractor and atleast dabbled in building their own stuff...
it also depends on how big the firm is. some of the larger firms could be design build but that just means they have a department that acts as the general contractor and organizes.
if you want to get you hands dirty, then stick to smaller projects and office rehab/installations
the design/build model is becoming more and more common - driven by the client in many cases - much to my frustration. it's not an ideal way of working, contractually, but clients usually like it because it often means a guaranteed cost. as puddles indicates, it merges architect and contractor (whether the same people or a team) together and takes away the architect's ability to be the non-contractor arbiter and representative of the client.
designer-as-constructor is sort of a different model, or at least a more specific variation of design/build. i've seen it work really well for a very disciplined architect/designer who knows what's important and where to stop obsessing during the actual construction. it's a good way to make sure your work is built the way you want it to be built, but also a good way to hemorrhage money if you don't quite know how to manage it.
i'd suggest working within the designer-as-constructor model for someone else before trying it on your own.
sometimes the owners think that you can change things on the fly and make it happen when in fact they dont want to pay for it. cant bend over too far if you get into a situation like that.
i would say that if work is slow and your trying to build the portfolio, then do a few design/build jobs and learn the trades a bit. you will then see why coordination between electrical/plumbing/drywall/etc is important
I actually see the Designer as Contractor model working the best in terms of creating a vision, however you have to be an experienced architect and actually understand what lines on paper mean instead of letting the contractor figure that out. You should take cost cutting and budgeting into account from the get go, but I think most architects are responsible enough to do that. Personally, that is the route that I'd like to take, so I'm trying to get my hands on experience though Habitat for Humanity right now. I'm still young, so every little helps.
two i knew were both small companies in louisville -
- one called design build innovations has jsut disbanded this year as one of the partners decided it was too stressful and went back to work for someone else. i understood the decision, but they were also doing good work and it seemed like they were doing well.
- the other is architectural artisans, run by a good friend and co-instructor at the governor's school. started out in '94 doing renovations, furniture, and houses even before registered and, since registration, has still built some and contracts other work out. he's always had his own shop space and it's always been a component of his business that he buys property, renovates and uses it for a while, and then sells it after value has increased. he's a good businessman, has always had a great instinct for how to leverage a risk into something good, and is also a very good, very committed designer.
his early work was in small salons and restaurants - businesses that wanted something cool and fairly inexpensive. because he had his own shop, he was able to make custom work still affordable. a lot of that work got published in local mags and made his name. as i noted above, he was VERY disciplined.
thats what it takes.... i tried my fair share of smaller projects... practically did them for free....
the main thing is being in an area that you can promote/push ideas.
not many folks like creative stuff in my area.... even in the burbs.... majority of folks like the typical stuff and not really into creative ideas/etc...
We have been doing Design / Agency CM for a number of years now and I think that it works great. Open book accounting and/or management fee allows us a lot of latitude in delivering the project at a responsible cost to the client.
Getting started was the hard part. There is a lot of stress when you become responsible for the project. Such as is the temp heat going to hold through the weekend?
All in all I love the control, I love working in the field w/ the contractors, and it now Design / Agency CM accounts for 1/3 of our revenue.
Reading this post is very interesting and thought provoking for me and my business partner. A few weeks back we actually brought this up in a couple of meetings we had with a few architectural firms in Los Angeles, Santa Monica and Newport Beach (that is some form or fashion of partnering on a design/build as a single entity).
As we are a mid sized contracting firm (Licensed CA, AZ and NV) we have great flexibility in integrating with a design firm. We are scheduled to have more discussions on this as it could be a win win for the architectural firm, the builder/contractor (us) and the agency/owner.
As it was said, in these times you have to "be thinking outside the box" and the typical comfort level.
OK I am bringing this thread back because 13 months later, there are now three contractor lead design build firms that have sprouted up in my tiny suburb of Chicago.
All three have a licensed architect on staff. Some where mentioned that the small firm is doomed because of the profit and liability model it makes more sense for the contractor to buy a firm and do contractor lead design build.
Most of my friends who have been laid off have been picked up by contractors for in house design departments.
I/we are about to get very serious about our Design/Build enterprise. We also have our own prefabrication system which differentiates us. But more about that later...
seems like really small outfits could just start with a couple guys: a construction engineer and an architect putting their heads together and getting a couple extra people on board... actually job hunting lately i do seem to notice more design build outfits than i remember from a few years ago...
holz: yeah i've found some nice ones, probably know which you are thinking of... i've actually sent a couple applications... hard to know how firms are doing in this market based just on the websites though...
Feb 8, 10 2:43 am ·
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architect as contractor?
heard of many successful architect-contractor companies..? it makes a lot of sense, and could potentially lead to a good transfer of knowledge back and forth - rather than the usual adverserial one... but too much for 1 place to do? conflict of interest?
related:
“We’re increasingly interested in the idea of direct building,”
de Rijke said. “We’re planning to build a fabrication workshop near our studio to develop engineered timber building elements such as walls, windows and doors at a one-to-one scale.”
But Nord director Alan Pert expressed doubts as to whether the idea would catch on. Pert, whose firm has made furniture and ceramic work for projects, suggested acting as a contractor could create a conflict of interest.
“If you are both contractor and contract administrator, that could lead to problems,” he said.
A spokesman for the Major Contractors Group said it shared these reservations, adding that it was watching the Heatherwick project with interest. “It is too early to say if this is a trend,” he said. “Whether architects have the resources to take over the role of main contractor on all their projects, we’ll have to wait and see.”
http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=426&storycode=3103517
it's called design/build
some design/build firms are just licensed builders that do smaller projects. theres good cash in it if you can locate your business in a rich area and just do renovations/additions to homes.
i say its a good idea to get your feet wet in that avenue
thanks cryzko. i guessed that there'd be decent money in D&B but i cant imagine that even the best of the D&B contractors actually put much design emphasise on their project...
i didn't quite clarify this, but i was generally trying to talk more about successful/innovative/forward-thinking architectural firms that have an inhouse contractor and atleast dabbled in building their own stuff...
it also depends on how big the firm is. some of the larger firms could be design build but that just means they have a department that acts as the general contractor and organizes.
if you want to get you hands dirty, then stick to smaller projects and office rehab/installations
b
not a good idea...you undermine your credibility as a "professional" hired (at least in part) to represent the interests of the client.
the design/build model is becoming more and more common - driven by the client in many cases - much to my frustration. it's not an ideal way of working, contractually, but clients usually like it because it often means a guaranteed cost. as puddles indicates, it merges architect and contractor (whether the same people or a team) together and takes away the architect's ability to be the non-contractor arbiter and representative of the client.
designer-as-constructor is sort of a different model, or at least a more specific variation of design/build. i've seen it work really well for a very disciplined architect/designer who knows what's important and where to stop obsessing during the actual construction. it's a good way to make sure your work is built the way you want it to be built, but also a good way to hemorrhage money if you don't quite know how to manage it.
i'd suggest working within the designer-as-constructor model for someone else before trying it on your own.
one of the biggest issues are changes
sometimes the owners think that you can change things on the fly and make it happen when in fact they dont want to pay for it. cant bend over too far if you get into a situation like that.
i would say that if work is slow and your trying to build the portfolio, then do a few design/build jobs and learn the trades a bit. you will then see why coordination between electrical/plumbing/drywall/etc is important
I actually see the Designer as Contractor model working the best in terms of creating a vision, however you have to be an experienced architect and actually understand what lines on paper mean instead of letting the contractor figure that out. You should take cost cutting and budgeting into account from the get go, but I think most architects are responsible enough to do that. Personally, that is the route that I'd like to take, so I'm trying to get my hands on experience though Habitat for Humanity right now. I'm still young, so every little helps.
Michael
thats a nice site......man....i'm jealous
I've been part of design build companies
i have had lots of fun, i have seen the succeed and i have seen them fail
i would say it depends on the client and the health of the principle(s)
you do get more of what you want because of it being your design, there are always subcontractors who may not be part of the over all vision though.
Steven, care to share the name/more details of the architect-contractor that you have seen apply this model relatively well?
two i knew were both small companies in louisville -
- one called design build innovations has jsut disbanded this year as one of the partners decided it was too stressful and went back to work for someone else. i understood the decision, but they were also doing good work and it seemed like they were doing well.
- the other is architectural artisans, run by a good friend and co-instructor at the governor's school. started out in '94 doing renovations, furniture, and houses even before registered and, since registration, has still built some and contracts other work out. he's always had his own shop space and it's always been a component of his business that he buys property, renovates and uses it for a while, and then sells it after value has increased. he's a good businessman, has always had a great instinct for how to leverage a risk into something good, and is also a very good, very committed designer.
no websites, i'm afraid.
the artisans sounds like what i was trying to do...... need capital and location to make that happen
his early work was in small salons and restaurants - businesses that wanted something cool and fairly inexpensive. because he had his own shop, he was able to make custom work still affordable. a lot of that work got published in local mags and made his name. as i noted above, he was VERY disciplined.
thats what it takes.... i tried my fair share of smaller projects... practically did them for free....
the main thing is being in an area that you can promote/push ideas.
not many folks like creative stuff in my area.... even in the burbs.... majority of folks like the typical stuff and not really into creative ideas/etc...
b
thanks steven.
as mentioned in the article i listed above, heatherwick does a lot of his own stuff building/making... http://www.heatherwick.com/
We have been doing Design / Agency CM for a number of years now and I think that it works great. Open book accounting and/or management fee allows us a lot of latitude in delivering the project at a responsible cost to the client.
Getting started was the hard part. There is a lot of stress when you become responsible for the project. Such as is the temp heat going to hold through the weekend?
All in all I love the control, I love working in the field w/ the contractors, and it now Design / Agency CM accounts for 1/3 of our revenue.
http://www.zackdevito.com/
... i just saw that Shop have opened a new company ... www.shop-construction.com
i see good times ahead for Shop, a pretty good move.
not quite full-on contractors but good to see architects leading the way in progressing construction.
Reading this post is very interesting and thought provoking for me and my business partner. A few weeks back we actually brought this up in a couple of meetings we had with a few architectural firms in Los Angeles, Santa Monica and Newport Beach (that is some form or fashion of partnering on a design/build as a single entity).
As we are a mid sized contracting firm (Licensed CA, AZ and NV) we have great flexibility in integrating with a design firm. We are scheduled to have more discussions on this as it could be a win win for the architectural firm, the builder/contractor (us) and the agency/owner.
As it was said, in these times you have to "be thinking outside the box" and the typical comfort level.
Donald H. Schmidt
www.KirshnerandSchmidt.com
OK I am bringing this thread back because 13 months later, there are now three contractor lead design build firms that have sprouted up in my tiny suburb of Chicago.
All three have a licensed architect on staff. Some where mentioned that the small firm is doomed because of the profit and liability model it makes more sense for the contractor to buy a firm and do contractor lead design build.
Most of my friends who have been laid off have been picked up by contractors for in house design departments.
any one else seeing this?
I/we are about to get very serious about our Design/Build enterprise. We also have our own prefabrication system which differentiates us. But more about that later...
seems like really small outfits could just start with a couple guys: a construction engineer and an architect putting their heads together and getting a couple extra people on board... actually job hunting lately i do seem to notice more design build outfits than i remember from a few years ago...
brink,
there are about 6 or 7 really good d|b firms that i've run across here in seattle.
although it seems a number of them have disbanded, severaly cut staff or have switched solely to design.
holz: yeah i've found some nice ones, probably know which you are thinking of... i've actually sent a couple applications... hard to know how firms are doing in this market based just on the websites though...
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