a a'dam office of UK firm?? s333?
well... anyway.
1500-2000euros/m depending on office. if it is s333 guess you will be looking at the lower end of that.

thanks p2an, I was hoping for a bit more, since rents for places in the centre/close to the centre run around 1200/mo. in A'dam.
the firm i'm interviewing with does mostly engineering consultancy work, but also have a design department... didn't know about s333.

i love a'dam so hopefully I'll be able to get a better offer!

if it's an engineering office you may be able to get more, but i would very surprised if it was alot over 2000 for a recent graduate.
architect wages aren't real high in nl. but you also should be able to find an apartment for less than 1200 depending on your living standards. 700 should get you a studio apartment.

thnx p2an. i notice from your profile that you're based in a'dam...so one more question: is the winter THAT bad? everyone here tells me that fall and winter are absolutely terrible, wet and cold. i am trying to convince myself that this is not true--is it? summer has been great so far...

winter is rain and cold, yup. thats about it. but hey we can be lucky that this summer we had some warm days, we haven't had a warm summer since 2003.
and i ain't joking.

A'dam, good thing to call it! Haven't heard that one before.

First off, don't pay 1200 for rent. Unless you want to have a crazy appartment, dead centre. If you are willing to live a bit outside the absolute centre, you can, with a bit of effort, find a more than decent place for about half of that.

Other than that: check out the cao at www.architectencao.nl I am not sure if there's an english version of this collective work agreement to base wages on. Depending on the kind of work that you'll be doing, and the years of experience you have, you are legally entitled to a certain wage. In your position, I'd reckon your entitled to something like 1600 euros minimum. But sometimes firms pay more - depends on the type of firm and your negotiation-skills. The only way for a firm to pay less is to change the job description that much, that they only have to abide the legal mimimum wage of about 1350 euros (gross).
Unless they sign you in as an intern. That changes things a bit.

Oh, and don't even get me started on the weather...

RIP S333

:(

a-f, re s333
i had heard rumors for quite a while. now if you check there website they are london based. jonathan used to be my neighbour - explains why i haven't seen him around lately.

thanks usernametaken, so does this payscale apply to both EU-citizens and expats? do you know whether both expats and dutch people get taxed the same?
i definitely wouldn't take the job if they offered to sign me as an intern...done my good share of that.
so I guess it's now up to how I negotiate things. btw I also surprised at annual vacation time here--it's mad long compared to the US, people get something like 4 or 5 weeks per year, sounds pretty sweet to me...

bert, oh yeah holidays in nl are good. 36 days a year...not too bad.

yes, not bad.
what about health care? i've heard from some non-Dutch people that you have to really be about to die in order to get a prescription or even see an actual MD. urban legend?

nah, i don't buy that. ok the dutch don't down pills like perhaps americans do, but if you go to a doctor sick you'll get want you want.
and fyi, health care is about 100euro/mn.

Those payscales apply to everybody who is (legally) working in the Netherlands. It's a legal thing that every neither natives or expats should have financial benefits over the other. That being said: as far as I know is the only difference in taxation based on the retirement plan payments: I'm pretty sure that you don't necessarily have to pay for that as a foreigner.

As far as healthcare goes: it's about 100E per month. The trick of the trade is to get an own "huisarts" (general physician???) that you can go to when you are ill. Just call someone and declare "i want to see you because I'm sick" generally doesn't work. And even though you won't get antibiotics for every time you cough, I think most of the doctors are pretty much capable of either helping you out, or redirecting you to a specialist for your needs.

And yeah, 36 holidays isn't too bad... I believe it's been cut down to 31 days for contracts that are signed this year.

Oh, don't forget to ask what they do with overtime. I believe that companies are more or less obliged to have a compensation programme for that. The place that I'm working at has the rule that 10% overtime a week is part of the deal. Everything over those hours (4 hours) is compensable with extra free time when the deadline is over. This gave me about two weeks of holidays extra last year...

So how much are wages taxed in the NL? I'm in Belgium now and it's pretty high, like almost up to 50%. I know just across the border in France it can get closer to the 30% like in the states.

It's a slightly complex system, which I can explain later if you'd really want to... but in general, you should estimate about 40%...

Thanks, just curious. Do a lot of people work as freelance to reduce taxes? Seems like that's mainly the case in Belgium.

working freelance only reduces taxes slightly - but it gives you an extra hassle to deal with health-care and everything. Maybe it's a bit better for your money (but only ever so slightly), but it's a bit crappy for your social security...

username...

some other comments to add...

the dutch will pay you an extra month's salary as your vacation pay!! as well as giving you at least 5 weeks off.

when i got paid as a full employee, i recall my taxes were about 50%. however, i did file and got about 1000 euro refund - so make sure you do that, even though it's all in dutch!

if you're american, it could be a better deal to work freelance and pay your own healthcare. if you file your taxes quarterly in the us as self-employed it's possible to write off quite a bit, everything from your apartment to your travel and healthcare. i worked with an accountant and quite legitimately was able to write enough to make my taxes pretty minimal.

thanks Sellout, Usernametaken, very useful stuff!
in my particular case working freelance isn't really an option, but I know of friends doing that in Berlin for the same reasons Gravitas mentions.

Usernametaken, the extra hours compensation sounds really good and quite strange at the same time in a profession like architecture, but hey, I'll take it if they offer something like it! thanks for pointing that out...

another question that might not be specific to NL:
I know that I want to go back to the US to get my masters in about 3-4 years after having worked in Europe for a while (preferably NL). Would this be something likely to not make me as "desirable" of a candidate for my potential employer?
If they know that I will be leaving in about 3 years, will they make me a lower, worse offer than if I were thinking of staying in the NL forever? Is this something that I should even be mentioning in my interview?

I think 3-4 years is a solid commitment - they shouldn't give you lesser pay based on wanting to go to grad school, since you might want to return and work for them. As an employer, I'd see a candidate who can make a 3-4 year commitment and has a desire to pursue further education would be a desirable one!

bertolucciana,

good thread. I'm also finishing school soon and getting ready to head to a'dam for work. this thread helped a lot. I've done some research on housing, and it's not as expensive as you think. as long as your willing to spend some time looking, you can find something decent for around 700 that is relatively close to the city centre. and as far as salary goes, i have also heard that around 1400/m is standard for people in our position, however, im hoping that since im finishing a masters program, i can earn a bit more than that.

lame, 1400 is def on the low side of things.
many ppl might take it as a step in door, which is fair enough, but that is below the CAO award wage.

NL has long had an economic strategy to keep housing plentiful and affordable so that salaries be kept low - and thus the dutch could more effectively compete and trade globally. It's why architects take housing design so seriously.

According to that, there should be reasonable housing options - if exchange rates and housing bubbles haven't impacted things!

BTW - R'dam is much cheaper than A-dam. Though it would be a terrible commute between the cities!

I wouldn't worry about the 3-4 years too much. As sellout points out: it's still a more than decent commitment. They will probably start you off on a one-year contract anyways... I wouldn't throw it in their face during an interview, but if the topic would come up in the conversation, be straightforward about it. I think that they should be able to respect that.

bertolucciana, how did you get the interview? You just emailed them with your porfolio and credentials? where you in the states or did you get the interview while in amsterdam?

pressburg: yes, I just sent a complete portfolio and CV.

thanks everyone, my interview's coming up next week and all of this info is really helpful!

my friends who work in rotterdam pay 300 a month in rent.
but that's still a lot since they only make 600 a month.