I don't hang out on this forum a whole lot ( busy, you know! ), but the little I read seems to include a lot of references to people so desperate to gain some experience that they are willing to work for free in offices, as a student or intern. Is this common?
As a student I was certainly paid in the office I chose to work in; I find it would have literally been impossible to do without even a nominal salary. The students we have in our office now get paid a ‘reasonable’ wage ( define ‘reasonable! ) and we wouldn’t have it any other way – I think it is an important aspect of development and of becoming a committed, responsible professional. ( we generally pay year out Part 3 students a salary of between £12-14K, round about $23-27K US per annum )
Anyhow; that’s a little beside the point. I was merely wondering how widespread this practice was in your area, and if it was expected and typical, in terms of being the only way to gain the requisite experience you desire? Or is it only certain starchitect practices or unscrupulous firms that are willing to take advantage in this manner?
Every firm should pay. I certainly never worked for free. However, some firm's have names that will go a long way and offer insight into the unique world of starchitects. Those are few and far between firms.
I would never work for free for experience, but if it helped get jobs in the future, etc., then it could be worth it (as a note, I declined offers to work for free at starchitect's offices while in school, and chose a semi-stararchitect that paid a semi-reasonable fee).
It is all up to the person whether it be worth. I'd say if you can't move across the country/world and have the name be worth something, then you should be paid at least minimum wage.
well yeah i would love $100k+ out of school
i would love to get paid during school
but i can't change the system
got to do what it takes
to get the experience i need
the contacts i need
so i don't get stuck being mediocre
money can wait
sleep can wait
got to continue the starchitect-begets-starchitect continuum
i would never want free labor..... maybe a barter system.... but i tend to pay those that help me......
if you spend 5-8 years in college and come out and work for free...then thats really screwed up....... and those firms that allow that....screw them too........
it's bad enough you dont make jack coming out of school.... then the large student loans/etc......
i doubt that anyone that works for free really puts in 100% effort........ theres no motivation really........
if you want to donate a few hours a week to a firm and help out on things then maybe thats the idea..... but for a fulltime spot.....nope
you dont see construction workers and the rest working for free.......
maybe an internship at a hospital might be unpaid if you are in the nursing field..... but they make some cash when they are done..and i think that internship is short...like 4-6 months (i could be wrong)
Send all those, "Architectural Slaves" my way....I'm the King of Architecture. I will train them up right and send them on their way.
and no one will ever say: " The Architect Tried"
When you (taken as a collective term) work for free you weaken the respect of the profession and allow (star)chitects who, otherwise are doing well for themselves to take advantage of their 15min of fame. You are a professional and have served you time is school to become one. You should be paid as one. Although the pay may not be great right out of school, you should be paid. Pad your resume with someone who values your contibution even if it is as an entry level intern.
I worked for a starchitect after I graduated as an Undergrad and well I had to accept the stipend type pay (something under a $1000 a month). It is not a lot but it was just enough to get by.
I figured the exchange was reasonable as it included some very good experience and guaranteed admission to two good mArch programs I was interested in.
Is 'working for free' typical in your area?
I don't hang out on this forum a whole lot ( busy, you know! ), but the little I read seems to include a lot of references to people so desperate to gain some experience that they are willing to work for free in offices, as a student or intern. Is this common?
As a student I was certainly paid in the office I chose to work in; I find it would have literally been impossible to do without even a nominal salary. The students we have in our office now get paid a ‘reasonable’ wage ( define ‘reasonable! ) and we wouldn’t have it any other way – I think it is an important aspect of development and of becoming a committed, responsible professional. ( we generally pay year out Part 3 students a salary of between £12-14K, round about $23-27K US per annum )
Anyhow; that’s a little beside the point. I was merely wondering how widespread this practice was in your area, and if it was expected and typical, in terms of being the only way to gain the requisite experience you desire? Or is it only certain starchitect practices or unscrupulous firms that are willing to take advantage in this manner?
Thanks for any insight.
Every firm should pay. I certainly never worked for free. However, some firm's have names that will go a long way and offer insight into the unique world of starchitects. Those are few and far between firms.
I would never work for free for experience, but if it helped get jobs in the future, etc., then it could be worth it (as a note, I declined offers to work for free at starchitect's offices while in school, and chose a semi-stararchitect that paid a semi-reasonable fee).
It is all up to the person whether it be worth. I'd say if you can't move across the country/world and have the name be worth something, then you should be paid at least minimum wage.
arrovitch - presume that should read "part 1" rather than "3"...? not a great deal otherwise :]
Quite right! First year out, Part 1 students, yep.
It's 5pm - my head is pretty much mush! :)
tell me about it...
what they r e a l l y should base your pay on is the air flow (or lack thereof) provided by the office in july and august
well yeah i would love $100k+ out of school
i would love to get paid during school
but i can't change the system
got to do what it takes
to get the experience i need
the contacts i need
so i don't get stuck being mediocre
money can wait
sleep can wait
got to continue the starchitect-begets-starchitect continuum
just so you know...you don't have to work for free to work for a starchitect...well, maybe YOU do.
I'm in NYC, so in answer to the OPs question; yes, people do work for free in my area.
screw that........
i would never want free labor..... maybe a barter system.... but i tend to pay those that help me......
if you spend 5-8 years in college and come out and work for free...then thats really screwed up....... and those firms that allow that....screw them too........
it's bad enough you dont make jack coming out of school.... then the large student loans/etc......
i doubt that anyone that works for free really puts in 100% effort........ theres no motivation really........
if you want to donate a few hours a week to a firm and help out on things then maybe thats the idea..... but for a fulltime spot.....nope
you dont see construction workers and the rest working for free.......
maybe an internship at a hospital might be unpaid if you are in the nursing field..... but they make some cash when they are done..and i think that internship is short...like 4-6 months (i could be wrong)
b
Send all those, "Architectural Slaves" my way....I'm the King of Architecture. I will train them up right and send them on their way.
and no one will ever say: " The Architect Tried"
When you (taken as a collective term) work for free you weaken the respect of the profession and allow (star)chitects who, otherwise are doing well for themselves to take advantage of their 15min of fame. You are a professional and have served you time is school to become one. You should be paid as one. Although the pay may not be great right out of school, you should be paid. Pad your resume with someone who values your contibution even if it is as an entry level intern.
I worked for a starchitect after I graduated as an Undergrad and well I had to accept the stipend type pay (something under a $1000 a month). It is not a lot but it was just enough to get by.
I figured the exchange was reasonable as it included some very good experience and guaranteed admission to two good mArch programs I was interested in.
Although I would feel very uncomfortable with it . . .
If the working environment was such that working for free was in vogue again, please contact me. . . we have plenty of positions.
Dont work for free, no matter what!
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