Does it matter where architecture school you came from when you start applying for an internship??? do they discriminate if you came from like University of South Florida rather than in University of Florida eventhough you both have a Master's degree in Architecture?
I live here in Florida.... University of Florida has dominated almost every universities that has an architectural program.... I didn't get admitted to UF.. Im scared to go to USF (South Florida) i feel unsecured about working on my Masters there...
really, though...can you really teach tallent? Thinking that a school makes the student is bullshit. You are either gifted or you arent. You work and preformance will trump any mention of schooling that you have. 9 times out of 10 my education has never been brought up in an interview
The name of the institution serves no more then as line on a resume. The proper question would be is it the same quality of education?
I would argue that your education doest necessarily depend on the institution or an institution. More than anything i have found that it matters most that you are in a situation that allows you to focus and commit the time that you need to advance your personal knowledge. A lot of people just need the competitive atmosphere and and high price tag to motivate them.
This is why a majority of hiring is done based on work samples, professional experience, and communication skills. All of which you can show a perspective employer at the same time and with more emphasis then the name of an educational institution.
that's just because UF opens there doors after 2nd year and lets in only the best throughout the state (or whoever else on open call).
But I could see it working in or out of your favour. I've been in rooms where people saw florida + architecture and just threw out the resumes without look at anything else.
The rule of thumb I've always heard is that the further you progress in your career, the less your degree matters and the more your actual work performance begins dominate the conversation. A good degree from a respected university can only help your chances of getting your foot in the door, but afterwards, you'll still need to prove yourself. I imagine it is the same for all professions.
a good school helps, not just for the name before the community in which you'll be learning--good fellow students, a collaborative environment, and an approachable and knowledgable faculty are a huge help (not to mention that "networking"--profs refering/recommending you to peers is huge), but without getting into too much hyperbole your education really is what you make of it.
A good school helps, but it is not the name as much as the education. UF has a very solid reputation around the country. I'd guess that most grads (from undergrad) get their first pick of grad schools, I know I did and all buy one of my classmates that I know of did.
I loved UF and think it was paramount in my development as an architecture, far more than UCLA (grad school).
I would recommend working hard on a portfolio and trying to transfer later on. UF is one of the best schools in the country, particularly for undergrad.
If I had to do it all over again, I would have gotten better grades in high school and probably gone to UF for undergrad. I was already living in Florida at the time, so I would have gotten in-state tuition and I wouldn't have lost touch with all my high school friends.
Instead, I moved to Chicago with my parents and ended up at UIC after a couple semesters in community college. UIC's architecture program was in shambles at the time, and I became very cynical about the idea of higher education in architecture. It's taken me years to re-adjust my attitude and get serious about school again.
So, yes, architecture school is what you make of it, but a good school will help you in that process, while a bad school can hinder you. Also, which schools are "good" or "bad" are always changing from year to year, and will of course vary depending on the eye of the beholder.
Funny thing is, thanks to MySpace and Facebook, i've been able to re-establish contact with most of those high school friends from Florida, and the ones who went to UF seem to be doing pretty well for themselves nowadays... A couple of them are even living here in NYC now and are doing some interesting stuff.
Im sorry to be the bearer of bad news here ARC... but its not true that the school you attend doesnt matter.
That is frankly, bull... Fantastic students from bad schools are probably just as bright as fantastic students from great schools, but you only need 1 guess as to who will get the preferable job...
As synergy said though, and most will agree, once you get your first job, your school experience's influence on employment will decrease significantly. Unfortunately, the reputation of your school counts for a lot. And it is not a coincidence that higher ups in your local firms tend to be from certain schools... Once you get your foot in the door, i think all bets are off, but in real life terms, the difference between getting your foot in the door at a good office paying you 38k, and getting your foot in a crap office paying 38k is MAJOR over the long term.
ARC, i saw you're other thread and appreciate the fact that you are (rightfully) quite worried about your choice in schools, and i will echo the advice you got in your other thread.
Go to USF for the first year. COMMIT to doing the best you possibly can, and then apply to other schools in the south east. there are plenty of good programs outside of south texas. perhaps you should consider other options beyond Florida and USF. And despite the incessant complaining on this site about student loans, dont be affraid to USE THEM. you only have the opportunity to move away and experience new things a few times in the course of a life... so i would guess...
I agree. I am paying loans for about 6 years of out of state tuition. However, I have never once questioned my debt (beyond 'wish I had worked that summer') - it was easily worth every penny.
Get the best education you can, the money can be made up later. Those few years will impact your future far more than a few thousand bucks here and there.
The only difference between two intern coworkers polishing up details of gypsum wall board partitions of a Courtside Marriott hotel is where they received their degrees. They do the same thing and get paid exactly the same.
It's all about how you present yourself professionally, your skills and level of talent, and your experience both in school and in the profession.
Obviously there will be snobby interns out there (we have plenty here) who instantly think that they are better than the next person because they went to a more academically prestigious school. But they will learn over time.
It's all about you. You want to be the guy who people want at their firm. So stick with that. I can't tell you how important it is for you to be versatile with your talents.
Also, please don't forget that there are schools that are elite in their OVERALL academics but have lousy architecture programs. Won't name any names but there are a few out there where their academics are all rosy but not so much for their architecture programs.
UF is a solid school and a solid program (gets tons of money and is extremely competitive even at the instate level). I remember a few grad school friends who went there and were very sharp.
USF is definitely an up and coming school academically. Anyone should respect and admire how a school less than 50 years old could have come such a long way and competes regionally with national universities that have been around far longer. In short, you can guarantee that it will be a very good school overall down the stretch.
It matters when getting your foot in the door. Beyond that, it's really about your talents.
But going to Harvard or Yale or Columbia is beneficial BEFORE someone's met you -- on a resume or by word of mouth. And that can sometimes be a huge asset.
i only ever consider hiring people who came from the same school as me... no matter how good some other candidate is i'm always a little suspicious of them because i don't fully know 'where' they came from...
i still have strong ties to my own program and did alot while i was there to make it better for students...i KNOW what those candidates have done and how to measure their accomplishment... i can't say that for any other school really...
and then there are of course schools i hate... i desperately wanted to go to cornell when i was in high school for some reason and i had a horrible interview there with a women who didn't take the time of day to even show up on time then i got waiting listed... i will never hire someone from cornell period....petty-yes but oh well
it helps to go to a program that people are familiar with in the region you plan on looking for work. You could have gone to an excellent program, but if no one has heard of your school, you're going to have to work a lot harder to get your foot in the door.
I haven't read through all the responses here, but I'm sure many have said it: your education is only as good as you make it. That's the bottom line.
Case in point: I shadowed a one of the principals at one of the "good" or "known" firms in my city. I talked with several staff members as well and the school they graduated from varied greatly. For example, two of the staff members had the same job, did the same work, and roughly the same age. One came from a school you probably have never heard of while the other graduated from Harvard. The only difference between the two is that the guy from Harvard has $75k more in debt.
This discussion got me thinking. Having a degree from a respected school is nice, but it occurs to me that more jobs are acquired through connections than through credentials. My advice, If possible, attend a university near the location you want to work, and get to know your classmates, alumni etc. Attending a local school, where you have lots of alumni working in offices in the area may very well be an easier way into a job than coming in from out town; Even if the out of town degree is much more prestigious.
"I haven't read through all the responses here, but I'm sure many have said it: your education is only as good as you make it. That's the bottom line."
Yes, others have said it, and then others like myself and lletdownl have qualified that statement. Maybe you really should read all the responses before chiming in with your own $.02. (Hint: It's called "critical thinking", which is one of the things they teach at the good schools.)
And then you bring up your singular example of the GSD intern being no different than the other CAD monkey, except being $75,000 in debt. Your little story involves a lot of assumptions on your part.
It's possible that the GSD student was banking on having the Harvard name on his resume, and the other guy was a top performer at his own school, and they just happened to end up doing the same job at the same prestigious firm... Which seems to be your basis for implying that the school doesn't matter.
But maybe the GSD student got a decent scholarship, and the other guy had to pay non-resident tuition at his own no-name school, and actually has more student loan debt.
Maybe the GSD student will have his own successful practice ten years from now, while the other guy is still a CAD monkey in somebody else's firm.
Maybe the GSD student doesn't give a rat's ass about professional practice, but is only working there while he prepares to go back into academia as a full-time instructor.
Maybe the GSD student and the other guy will have comparable career tracks, but the GSD guy has a much deeper understanding of architecture and he sees architecture as his passion in life, while the other guy sees it merely as a paycheck.
Point is, I doubt you could garner all the background and ambitions of these two people just from shadowing a partner in the firm for a day or two, and I don't think it's your place to judge the merits of these people's academic pedigree based on a brief encounter at one instant of their respective careers. If the GSD guy thinks his education is worth $75,000 in student loan debt, then more power to him. If the other guy is satisfied with his education at No-Name U, then more power to him, too. To each their own.
I'm not saying the GSD student is automatically destined to become the better architect, but I'm willing to wager that the GSD student -- given what it takes to get accepted, to succeed in the program, and to be surrounded by top classmates and top faculty for three years -- has many more opportunities to make more of his education than the guy from No-Name U. Whether he actually had the initiative to take advantage of those opportunities, of course, was up to him, but many of those opportunities simply don't exist in many of the "no name" architecture programs.
If you go through grad school with the idea that you're merely getting a piece of paper that gives you permission to become an architect, then that's all you'll get. But some people see a higher value in their education than just getting a piece of paper, and these are the people you're more likely to find at the "good" schools.
if you are into being into things then the name school will help with that. going from nowhere to somewhere is a lot harder than the other way around. so if you want a career with a particular quality to it then yeah it makes a difference. otherwise....not so much.
but come ON, anyone honestly think having kenneth frampton as your thesis advisor is going to turn out bad for you? or that it won't make a difference?
on the other hand, no one really remembers who H+deM's professor's were, nor Rem's, or zaha's...oh wait, never mind, she was rem's student...so maybe it does matter.
anyway, if you have the ambition it doesn't matter so much. but then, if you had the ambition and the opportunity, you wouldn't be thinking of not going to one of the best schools in the world...it's a self-selection thing, isn't it...?
this comes up so often here. my only advice is to see your career as a trajectory that will likely last you 30 plus years. many get caught up on the beginning, i.e. choosing the right school, getting the right internship, etc. while these decisions are important and will set a direction for your entire career, these years also go by very quickly. try to get the most of out of yourself and your current circumstances - don't settle for a no-name degree if you can do better, but at the same time, don't worry too much if you can't get into the gsd. i think you can find satisfaction in just about any career path you follow, but it's more about your own mindset than it is the names you put on your resume.
of course at any one time, all you can do is try and maximise your chances of getting a good start or bettering your position.
if i could have gone to a better more well known school i would have, but the situation wasn't possible. so i studied at my local school that i am sure no-one here has heard of.
but i enjoyed the course, i worked my butt off and well, things still happened, i managed to travel and work at places that inspired me as a student and still motivate me.
and now, nearly 8 years out of school, when i look back i am still happy and convinced that the best thing that my school did for me was to make me truly interested in architecture, and i hope that can happen at many schools, not just the few name schools.
actually, those are nice responses p2an, and jfidler.
i went to generic but good archi-school in canada for undergrad and m.arch. i maybe would have had an easier time after graduation if i had gone to fancy school instead, but don't regret where i went. in fact i am kind of grateful to have gone to a school where the professors actually had time for the students and for the need to then lift myself up high enough to be noticed. there is a lesson in that process that is impt.
i am now finishing up phd at #1 school in japan. basically harvard or yale for the japanese. the doors that open as a result of attending this school are amazing. seriously, it immediately takes everything up a step or two (the education itself is maybe no better, but the students are ALL highly motivated - the entrance exam ensures this to be the case).
anyway, clients trust me more, builders take me more seriously, and the social network is quite good. i also get access to people who normally would not give me the time of day. this only matters in japan of course, but since i am working here it is very impt to me that i am going to the school i am going to. the status would not have done much for me when i was younger but now it is very useful...and i hope that it will be lasting. 'll let you know in 30 years.
Go to various firm websites, or schools of architecture- if you think you want to be an academic- and see where people went to school. These employee bios are great. Firms of all levels have a variety of feeders, though, obviously, proximity of the school to the firm means a lot.
I'm always checking out the employee bios that powercopy is mentioning. Most of the principals and project leaders went to mid-range to high-end schools, very few no-names.
I imagine clients check these bios as well, and their education info is there to be seen for a reason. Why else would it matter that so-and-so graduated from Columbia, Harvard, or Yale back in '71?
The first thing I check out on an architect's website is their work. When I applied to grad schools I learned that the portfolio is king. And I'm sure it's the same in the "real" world (quite understandably).
Obviously there will be snobby interns out there (we have plenty here) who instantly think that they are better than the next person because they went to a more academically prestigious school.
Couldn't agree more. Over the years I've noticed that the only people in the professional world that advertise where their degree came from are the ones trying to justify the student debt that came with it.
Granted, alumni networks are nothing more than good-old-boy clubs and foster their fair share of nepotism. That goes for highly visible schools as well the less regarded ones too. So, if you want to tap the alumni network of a certian college, by all means go there. Otherwise I don't think your opportunities will differ. It really is mostly about your personality and skills, which I've yet to see significant differences from the state grad and the ivy grad.
Additionally, architecture is a slow business. They say an architect does not reach his/her prime until late in age, 50's or older. Most grads have plenty of time to hone their talents before getting noticed, regardless of college.
Personally, after that 1st year out of college nobody even has bothered to ask where I went. People ask what my experience is, but honestly, at this point that college experience is irrelevant.
Alumni of my University got me both my first job out of school (crummy) and the subsequent one (great). Yes, it has mattered to me where I went to school.
i could see hiring a good kansas grad... i'm just not so sure about those penn grads...white tower secret handshake mothe....
<--PSU grad
although i did get to see a good bit of PA school work in the stewardson competitions and through traveling to check out crits at other schools and such...
penn degrees rule the roost in philly it seems and they definitely seem to help each other out alot...
I'm actually of the belief, architecture school is an experience. When you get down to the brass tacks, you will find Architects do come from
many backgrounds and are talented in many ways. There are a hell of alot of Ivy folk who do nothing more than the lesser known school people out there. Actually I'm always amazed when I run into older
architects who were akin to Frank Lloyd Wright, Bruce Goff, who are
still kicking around. I just read a letter to the Editor in the Architecture Magazine from Jim Gresham, Tuson, Az. I have high regard for him as an architect. I would suggest you all read the letter to the editor he wrote. It does say alot about the state of Architecture today. Oh ya, he is a former student of Bruce Goff.
"I noticed you spelled architecture incorrectly. In the future you should try to be more careful about spelling and grammar because it makes an impact on your career. Perhaps this is something you could work on while you are in school."
Does it matter where architecturre school you came from
Does it matter where architecture school you came from when you start applying for an internship??? do they discriminate if you came from like University of South Florida rather than in University of Florida eventhough you both have a Master's degree in Architecture?
Not really - its mostly about the interview and skill set
I think you should start a few more threads about this question.
good grammar would help.
In a word: yes. Go to a good school -- it is worth it not just for better job offers.
I live here in Florida.... University of Florida has dominated almost every universities that has an architectural program.... I didn't get admitted to UF.. Im scared to go to USF (South Florida) i feel unsecured about working on my Masters there...
as long as you know how to give a good blow job...
really, though...can you really teach tallent? Thinking that a school makes the student is bullshit. You are either gifted or you arent. You work and preformance will trump any mention of schooling that you have. 9 times out of 10 my education has never been brought up in an interview
The name of the institution serves no more then as line on a resume. The proper question would be is it the same quality of education?
I would argue that your education doest necessarily depend on the institution or an institution. More than anything i have found that it matters most that you are in a situation that allows you to focus and commit the time that you need to advance your personal knowledge. A lot of people just need the competitive atmosphere and and high price tag to motivate them.
This is why a majority of hiring is done based on work samples, professional experience, and communication skills. All of which you can show a perspective employer at the same time and with more emphasis then the name of an educational institution.
that's just because UF opens there doors after 2nd year and lets in only the best throughout the state (or whoever else on open call).
But I could see it working in or out of your favour. I've been in rooms where people saw florida + architecture and just threw out the resumes without look at anything else.
The rule of thumb I've always heard is that the further you progress in your career, the less your degree matters and the more your actual work performance begins dominate the conversation. A good degree from a respected university can only help your chances of getting your foot in the door, but afterwards, you'll still need to prove yourself. I imagine it is the same for all professions.
a good school helps, not just for the name before the community in which you'll be learning--good fellow students, a collaborative environment, and an approachable and knowledgable faculty are a huge help (not to mention that "networking"--profs refering/recommending you to peers is huge), but without getting into too much hyperbole your education really is what you make of it.
A good school helps, but it is not the name as much as the education. UF has a very solid reputation around the country. I'd guess that most grads (from undergrad) get their first pick of grad schools, I know I did and all buy one of my classmates that I know of did.
I loved UF and think it was paramount in my development as an architecture, far more than UCLA (grad school).
I would recommend working hard on a portfolio and trying to transfer later on. UF is one of the best schools in the country, particularly for undergrad.
If I had to do it all over again, I would have gotten better grades in high school and probably gone to UF for undergrad. I was already living in Florida at the time, so I would have gotten in-state tuition and I wouldn't have lost touch with all my high school friends.
Instead, I moved to Chicago with my parents and ended up at UIC after a couple semesters in community college. UIC's architecture program was in shambles at the time, and I became very cynical about the idea of higher education in architecture. It's taken me years to re-adjust my attitude and get serious about school again.
So, yes, architecture school is what you make of it, but a good school will help you in that process, while a bad school can hinder you. Also, which schools are "good" or "bad" are always changing from year to year, and will of course vary depending on the eye of the beholder.
Funny thing is, thanks to MySpace and Facebook, i've been able to re-establish contact with most of those high school friends from Florida, and the ones who went to UF seem to be doing pretty well for themselves nowadays... A couple of them are even living here in NYC now and are doing some interesting stuff.
Im sorry to be the bearer of bad news here ARC... but its not true that the school you attend doesnt matter.
That is frankly, bull... Fantastic students from bad schools are probably just as bright as fantastic students from great schools, but you only need 1 guess as to who will get the preferable job...
As synergy said though, and most will agree, once you get your first job, your school experience's influence on employment will decrease significantly. Unfortunately, the reputation of your school counts for a lot. And it is not a coincidence that higher ups in your local firms tend to be from certain schools... Once you get your foot in the door, i think all bets are off, but in real life terms, the difference between getting your foot in the door at a good office paying you 38k, and getting your foot in a crap office paying 38k is MAJOR over the long term.
ARC, i saw you're other thread and appreciate the fact that you are (rightfully) quite worried about your choice in schools, and i will echo the advice you got in your other thread.
Go to USF for the first year. COMMIT to doing the best you possibly can, and then apply to other schools in the south east. there are plenty of good programs outside of south texas. perhaps you should consider other options beyond Florida and USF. And despite the incessant complaining on this site about student loans, dont be affraid to USE THEM. you only have the opportunity to move away and experience new things a few times in the course of a life... so i would guess...
south texas??? south florida i meant...
I agree. I am paying loans for about 6 years of out of state tuition. However, I have never once questioned my debt (beyond 'wish I had worked that summer') - it was easily worth every penny.
Get the best education you can, the money can be made up later. Those few years will impact your future far more than a few thousand bucks here and there.
for example theres a lot of principles in Chicago who went to ITT
I completely agree with lletdownl
The name of the school may be just a line on your resume, but it's the resume that gets you in the door.
Nope.
The only difference between two intern coworkers polishing up details of gypsum wall board partitions of a Courtside Marriott hotel is where they received their degrees. They do the same thing and get paid exactly the same.
It's all about how you present yourself professionally, your skills and level of talent, and your experience both in school and in the profession.
Obviously there will be snobby interns out there (we have plenty here) who instantly think that they are better than the next person because they went to a more academically prestigious school. But they will learn over time.
It's all about you. You want to be the guy who people want at their firm. So stick with that. I can't tell you how important it is for you to be versatile with your talents.
Also, please don't forget that there are schools that are elite in their OVERALL academics but have lousy architecture programs. Won't name any names but there are a few out there where their academics are all rosy but not so much for their architecture programs.
UF is a solid school and a solid program (gets tons of money and is extremely competitive even at the instate level). I remember a few grad school friends who went there and were very sharp.
USF is definitely an up and coming school academically. Anyone should respect and admire how a school less than 50 years old could have come such a long way and competes regionally with national universities that have been around far longer. In short, you can guarantee that it will be a very good school overall down the stretch.
It matters when getting your foot in the door. Beyond that, it's really about your talents.
But going to Harvard or Yale or Columbia is beneficial BEFORE someone's met you -- on a resume or by word of mouth. And that can sometimes be a huge asset.
i only ever consider hiring people who came from the same school as me... no matter how good some other candidate is i'm always a little suspicious of them because i don't fully know 'where' they came from...
i still have strong ties to my own program and did alot while i was there to make it better for students...i KNOW what those candidates have done and how to measure their accomplishment... i can't say that for any other school really...
and then there are of course schools i hate... i desperately wanted to go to cornell when i was in high school for some reason and i had a horrible interview there with a women who didn't take the time of day to even show up on time then i got waiting listed... i will never hire someone from cornell period....petty-yes but oh well
it helps to go to a program that people are familiar with in the region you plan on looking for work. You could have gone to an excellent program, but if no one has heard of your school, you're going to have to work a lot harder to get your foot in the door.
I haven't read through all the responses here, but I'm sure many have said it: your education is only as good as you make it. That's the bottom line.
Case in point: I shadowed a one of the principals at one of the "good" or "known" firms in my city. I talked with several staff members as well and the school they graduated from varied greatly. For example, two of the staff members had the same job, did the same work, and roughly the same age. One came from a school you probably have never heard of while the other graduated from Harvard. The only difference between the two is that the guy from Harvard has $75k more in debt.
learn how to play the game
Evilp, was that a typo or an intentional snipe at IIT?
friendly jab
Ok sounds good.
This discussion got me thinking. Having a degree from a respected school is nice, but it occurs to me that more jobs are acquired through connections than through credentials. My advice, If possible, attend a university near the location you want to work, and get to know your classmates, alumni etc. Attending a local school, where you have lots of alumni working in offices in the area may very well be an easier way into a job than coming in from out town; Even if the out of town degree is much more prestigious.
yes
connections>prestige
ITT Tech
mkell said:
"I haven't read through all the responses here, but I'm sure many have said it: your education is only as good as you make it. That's the bottom line."
Yes, others have said it, and then others like myself and lletdownl have qualified that statement. Maybe you really should read all the responses before chiming in with your own $.02. (Hint: It's called "critical thinking", which is one of the things they teach at the good schools.)
And then you bring up your singular example of the GSD intern being no different than the other CAD monkey, except being $75,000 in debt. Your little story involves a lot of assumptions on your part.
It's possible that the GSD student was banking on having the Harvard name on his resume, and the other guy was a top performer at his own school, and they just happened to end up doing the same job at the same prestigious firm... Which seems to be your basis for implying that the school doesn't matter.
But maybe the GSD student got a decent scholarship, and the other guy had to pay non-resident tuition at his own no-name school, and actually has more student loan debt.
Maybe the GSD student will have his own successful practice ten years from now, while the other guy is still a CAD monkey in somebody else's firm.
Maybe the GSD student doesn't give a rat's ass about professional practice, but is only working there while he prepares to go back into academia as a full-time instructor.
Maybe the GSD student and the other guy will have comparable career tracks, but the GSD guy has a much deeper understanding of architecture and he sees architecture as his passion in life, while the other guy sees it merely as a paycheck.
Point is, I doubt you could garner all the background and ambitions of these two people just from shadowing a partner in the firm for a day or two, and I don't think it's your place to judge the merits of these people's academic pedigree based on a brief encounter at one instant of their respective careers. If the GSD guy thinks his education is worth $75,000 in student loan debt, then more power to him. If the other guy is satisfied with his education at No-Name U, then more power to him, too. To each their own.
I'm not saying the GSD student is automatically destined to become the better architect, but I'm willing to wager that the GSD student -- given what it takes to get accepted, to succeed in the program, and to be surrounded by top classmates and top faculty for three years -- has many more opportunities to make more of his education than the guy from No-Name U. Whether he actually had the initiative to take advantage of those opportunities, of course, was up to him, but many of those opportunities simply don't exist in many of the "no name" architecture programs.
If you go through grad school with the idea that you're merely getting a piece of paper that gives you permission to become an architect, then that's all you'll get. But some people see a higher value in their education than just getting a piece of paper, and these are the people you're more likely to find at the "good" schools.
if you are into being into things then the name school will help with that. going from nowhere to somewhere is a lot harder than the other way around. so if you want a career with a particular quality to it then yeah it makes a difference. otherwise....not so much.
but come ON, anyone honestly think having kenneth frampton as your thesis advisor is going to turn out bad for you? or that it won't make a difference?
on the other hand, no one really remembers who H+deM's professor's were, nor Rem's, or zaha's...oh wait, never mind, she was rem's student...so maybe it does matter.
anyway, if you have the ambition it doesn't matter so much. but then, if you had the ambition and the opportunity, you wouldn't be thinking of not going to one of the best schools in the world...it's a self-selection thing, isn't it...?
this comes up so often here. my only advice is to see your career as a trajectory that will likely last you 30 plus years. many get caught up on the beginning, i.e. choosing the right school, getting the right internship, etc. while these decisions are important and will set a direction for your entire career, these years also go by very quickly. try to get the most of out of yourself and your current circumstances - don't settle for a no-name degree if you can do better, but at the same time, don't worry too much if you can't get into the gsd. i think you can find satisfaction in just about any career path you follow, but it's more about your own mindset than it is the names you put on your resume.
agreed with ^
of course at any one time, all you can do is try and maximise your chances of getting a good start or bettering your position.
if i could have gone to a better more well known school i would have, but the situation wasn't possible. so i studied at my local school that i am sure no-one here has heard of.
but i enjoyed the course, i worked my butt off and well, things still happened, i managed to travel and work at places that inspired me as a student and still motivate me.
and now, nearly 8 years out of school, when i look back i am still happy and convinced that the best thing that my school did for me was to make me truly interested in architecture, and i hope that can happen at many schools, not just the few name schools.
actually, those are nice responses p2an, and jfidler.
i went to generic but good archi-school in canada for undergrad and m.arch. i maybe would have had an easier time after graduation if i had gone to fancy school instead, but don't regret where i went. in fact i am kind of grateful to have gone to a school where the professors actually had time for the students and for the need to then lift myself up high enough to be noticed. there is a lesson in that process that is impt.
i am now finishing up phd at #1 school in japan. basically harvard or yale for the japanese. the doors that open as a result of attending this school are amazing. seriously, it immediately takes everything up a step or two (the education itself is maybe no better, but the students are ALL highly motivated - the entrance exam ensures this to be the case).
anyway, clients trust me more, builders take me more seriously, and the social network is quite good. i also get access to people who normally would not give me the time of day. this only matters in japan of course, but since i am working here it is very impt to me that i am going to the school i am going to. the status would not have done much for me when i was younger but now it is very useful...and i hope that it will be lasting. 'll let you know in 30 years.
Go to various firm websites, or schools of architecture- if you think you want to be an academic- and see where people went to school. These employee bios are great. Firms of all levels have a variety of feeders, though, obviously, proximity of the school to the firm means a lot.
I'm always checking out the employee bios that powercopy is mentioning. Most of the principals and project leaders went to mid-range to high-end schools, very few no-names.
I imagine clients check these bios as well, and their education info is there to be seen for a reason. Why else would it matter that so-and-so graduated from Columbia, Harvard, or Yale back in '71?
The first thing I check out on an architect's website is their work. When I applied to grad schools I learned that the portfolio is king. And I'm sure it's the same in the "real" world (quite understandably).
i think personality is king in the real world...
Couldn't agree more. Over the years I've noticed that the only people in the professional world that advertise where their degree came from are the ones trying to justify the student debt that came with it.
Granted, alumni networks are nothing more than good-old-boy clubs and foster their fair share of nepotism. That goes for highly visible schools as well the less regarded ones too. So, if you want to tap the alumni network of a certian college, by all means go there. Otherwise I don't think your opportunities will differ. It really is mostly about your personality and skills, which I've yet to see significant differences from the state grad and the ivy grad.
Additionally, architecture is a slow business. They say an architect does not reach his/her prime until late in age, 50's or older. Most grads have plenty of time to hone their talents before getting noticed, regardless of college.
Personally, after that 1st year out of college nobody even has bothered to ask where I went. People ask what my experience is, but honestly, at this point that college experience is irrelevant.
Alumni of my University got me both my first job out of school (crummy) and the subsequent one (great). Yes, it has mattered to me where I went to school.
i could see hiring a good kansas grad... i'm just not so sure about those penn grads...white tower secret handshake mothe....
<--PSU grad
although i did get to see a good bit of PA school work in the stewardson competitions and through traveling to check out crits at other schools and such...
penn degrees rule the roost in philly it seems and they definitely seem to help each other out alot...
damn.....I must be stridding into my prime...but I can't share my client list with you....
I'm actually of the belief, architecture school is an experience. When you get down to the brass tacks, you will find Architects do come from
many backgrounds and are talented in many ways. There are a hell of alot of Ivy folk who do nothing more than the lesser known school people out there. Actually I'm always amazed when I run into older
architects who were akin to Frank Lloyd Wright, Bruce Goff, who are
still kicking around. I just read a letter to the Editor in the Architecture Magazine from Jim Gresham, Tuson, Az. I have high regard for him as an architect. I would suggest you all read the letter to the editor he wrote. It does say alot about the state of Architecture today. Oh ya, he is a former student of Bruce Goff.
If you can't spell Architecture correctly, you may want to look at a different field.
blackharp, a correct response would have been:
"I noticed you spelled architecture incorrectly. In the future you should try to be more careful about spelling and grammar because it makes an impact on your career. Perhaps this is something you could work on while you are in school."
haha
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