This thread is an attempt to consolidate and update the various previous threads on the subject, while also providing more detailed information. As I’m quite interested in joining in on the excitement of the region, I’m hoping to learn as much as possible. I’ve included my initial findings thus far. Please correct, update, and most importantly add to this, especially with personal experiences.
Primary cities:
- Dubai
- Abu Dhabi
Primary multi-national firms:
- HOK - US-based
- EDAW - US-based
- Bermello Ajamil & Partners - US-based
- Yamasaki - US-based (may be starting an office)
- Foster + Partners - UK-based
- Hopkins - UK-based
- WS Atkins - UK-based
- RMJM Architects - UK-based
- TAK Group - Malaysia-based
- Cox Group - Australia-based
* I've heard that SOM and KPF may have offices there, but couldn't find any information from their websites
Salary packages:
- AED15,000-35,000/month or more, which is roughly = $50,000-115,000/year (US) ($1 - 3.67AED)
- relocation expenses (maybe)
- 1-3 round trip tickets to home country per year
- medical and (maybe) life insurance
- 22-50 days holiday
- accommodation (maybe) - if so, it may be shared (UAE rents are skyrocketing so getting accommodation could be quite helpful)
- tax free (My understanding is that for US citizens you’ll have to prove that you are a “bona fide resident” of another country and not in the US for 330 of 365 days in a year. If you can do this, there are no taxes up to roughly $85,0000. Afterwards there is a percentage that gets taxed.)
Important considerations:
- it’s really hot
- you need to get an “alcoholic license” (yes “alcoholic”) to buy alcohol for home use
- alcohol is only served at restaurants or bars that are part of hotel/sports complexes
- work week is Sunday through Thursday and often a half day on Saturday. Fridays off.
- average work week likely to be 50hrs or more
- non-married couples may not live together
- crime rates are very low, however this may be due to very strict punishments for offenses (ex. not too much pda and definitely don’t drink and drive)
- it seems impossible to get around without a car; however cars and gasoline are relatively cheap
- traffic can be really bad and due to the nature of UAE's demographics (70-80% foreign nationals) there are severely clashing driving styles
My questions:
- I’m especially curious to learn more of personal experiences in Dubai or Abu Dhabi, if you prefer to keep it private but are willing to share your thoughts, please email me
- I’m hopeful to get a better handle on salary expectations (I’ve started negotiating with one firm, but not sure where I fit in with the UAE market)
I’d also like more information on the firms themselves - working environments, people, types of work done in the office, and whether I’ve missed some of the major firms in the area
- Where to live? What are the differences in neighborhoods in Dubai? What to look for, consider?
- What to do? What are the better entertainment/diversion options? Are the beaches worthwhile?
Any other relevant questions or comments are welcome.
offices:
Woods Bagot (australian)
Kling (germany - but not recommended)
Meecon (local)
DXB-Lab - (local)
Norr International (canada, but also local)
Gensler
BRT Architekten (germany)
Crone Partners (australian)
Aedes (international)
generally its a good way to earn more money than usual and it would be a good decision to go there only to earn money - and honestly from my own experience there is not much more chances to do more next to working. I only know that i worked more hours in Hong KOng but also Dubai is massive working hours (quite likely 13-16 hours a day plus lots of weekends)...
For a senior job you can get around 40 to 55.000 AED a month if you have the right qualifications... (10 to 14k $)
if you are not that beachkid and dont like sun and hot weather or extensive shopping you wont have much possibilities to do other stuff on your weekends...
yes, you need a car otherwise its a pain just crossing the streets...
did i said its hot ?! in summer it can be 55 degree celsius and you dont wanna be longer than 2 min outside
housing is extraordinairy too and most times you need to pay the whole rent for one year in one go.
while your friends will have a relaxted sunday you will already sitting in your office doing your stuff and will take some time to adjust to a different working week.
You will generally work on crazy crazy crazy projects fullfilling the developers dreams dealing with Sheiks who have no clue about architecture and just wanting to have some kind of las vegas....
During ramadan you are forbidden to smoke, drink and eat anywhere in public, even not on streets or in your office...if you than want to eat something, do it in respect to your fellow muslim friends somewhere in the dark :-)
all in all: if you have the chance of finding a job somewhere else, do it and dont go to Dubai - for my experience its not worth going there...
From my experience working abroad, it seems alot of the experience you gain in overseas markets does not translate at all to the industry back in the U.S. Personally I'm probably going to wait till i have some sort of license in the U.S. before heading overseas for long periods of time.
don't be alarmed - it rarely, hardly ever gets up to 55 degrees C. it does get and stay hot and humid from May to October (avg. 37 C). but from did-October to May, it is very pleasant to be out and Dubai (and Abu Dhabi) are in fact very outdoors oriented places. it is not all about air-conditioning.
yes, you need a car, but because lots of people buy new cars and sell them within a year, and lots of ex-pats buy new cars and then leave the country after a year or two, used cars are at least 1/3 less than the States or Europe or Australia. driving is no worse than Houston.
work pressures are intense and can be as described above, but not all offices work this way.
dubai has more charm and things other than shopping and the beach than most people give it credit for, but it is also a great 'jumping-off' place for easy weekend or longer visits to Oman, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Africa, India and back to Europe or to Asia. incredibly well served by air links to all these destinations and more.
housing is the biggest single problem - both finding a good place and finding one that is affordable. house prices are escalating at about 35%/year.
offices in Dubai are not just working on projects in the Gulf, as many of the major developers are now doing projects in India, Africa, Asia and back to Europe.
Porn sites are banned in Indonesia as well, did not stop one of the tech guys at the mining company I worked for from downloading over 300 GB of porn and crashing the company network.
^ Limited or no access to illicit material will not be problematic; however, I will really miss VOIP sites like skype. Is there also a way around this? In Istanbul, we have to use sites like VTunnel to access YouTube, which has been inexplicably banned for the last few months.
> Any experiences with banking in UAE? Is it difficult to transfer funds to accounts outside the country?
> tempo01 - I remember reading your previous thread on the subject. So it seems you took the plunge. Do you regret it? What aspects made it especially not worth while?
At the moment I'm living in Istanbul, so while there will definitely be changes in the move, I have a bit of experience living in a Muslim country.
Perhaps I can be corrected on the following rationales for my UAE considerations:
Professionally, it seems to be a good move. Although projects are processed far too quickly, it might be a good way to assume responsibilities faster than most other places (which may be as bad as it is good). It would also be good to get experience on some of the largest and most prominent urban design/planning projects in the world. Following a year or so in the UAE, I might be more valuable to potential employers in the US/UK due to my experience in the region.
And as for financially, it seems unparalleled in my search thus far. At the end of the year, taking account income vs. expenses, I'll have at least an extra $20-30,000 more in Dubai than any other city I compared (London, Istanbul, Chicago, NYC, Boston). Due to my massive loans looming on the horizon, this is certainly a draw.
we use skype a good bit when coordinating between the US offices and the UAE offices...
its funny i don't think we are allowed to use the VOIP system in dubai b/c the royals want everyone to use the established phone system or something? i'm still not sure what the deal is... it would just be alot easier than dealing with skype over multiple offices...
Anyone have experience with living situations? Based on my limited time in the city, it seemed as if there were no urban centers in Dubai, the closest approximation being the large malls or some of the neighborhoods closer to the creek. Neither of these appeared to be particularly desirable places to live.
If no urban life is available, what are the attractive features to look for when choosing housing? Near a beach? With a (sea) view? With nice amenities (ie. fitness center, pool, etc.)? Are these sort of places more common, thereby making them attainable living places or are they reserved for the super rich. Granted rents are skyrocketing at 20-30% or more despite attempts to curb this, but I'm just hoping to get a sense of what's out there.
The creek area seems to be quite traffic prone. So I wonder if there are other areas in town that are better to live in, perhaps with less traffic.
There aren't really a whole lot of cultural differences in the gulf. Sure you'll see some traditional looking Arabs, but they mostly hang out at malls, shop all day. I lived in Dubai for 9 years. It's and extremely modern society but some areas are quite conservative like Sharijah and Al Ayoun.
It's the weather that is annoying there. Can we say hell on earth?
Gulf Cities are kinda boring though. They are ultra modern but highly inaccessible and devoid of any real culture. They are basically soulless places.
If anyone decides to live there, there is no need to worry about language. You could spend your entire life without knowing a word of Arabic.
Restaurants aren't bad either. Since there is a massive Iranian cultural presence in the Emirates many people prefer Iranian restaurants. There are also a lot of good seafood places too but just stay far away from all the world class resorts and hotels. they'll hit you up with some serious loot. Other than that cost of living isn't really that bad. It's definately less than places like DC or Philly.
^ Is it feasible to travel to these places above for a weekend or a long weekend? They do sound incredible and I'd want to take advantage of the proximity.
Also, are the working hours at UAE firms too crazy? Do people find any time for themselves?
Anyone else willing to share personal experiences with firms in the UAE, either with a post or an email to me.
It's generally pretty lax there. People leave work at around 3:30 and come in around like 7:30. But since most firms are either Euro or American based, expect long hours. This is the architecture field we are still talking about,
^ARCHITORTURE - do you have experience with Burt Hill (or know someone who does)? Just curious what the thoughts are on the company? Good work? working environment? etc.
Working in the UAE/Middle East Thread
This thread is an attempt to consolidate and update the various previous threads on the subject, while also providing more detailed information. As I’m quite interested in joining in on the excitement of the region, I’m hoping to learn as much as possible. I’ve included my initial findings thus far. Please correct, update, and most importantly add to this, especially with personal experiences.
Primary cities:
- Dubai
- Abu Dhabi
Primary multi-national firms:
- HOK - US-based
- EDAW - US-based
- Bermello Ajamil & Partners - US-based
- Yamasaki - US-based (may be starting an office)
- Foster + Partners - UK-based
- Hopkins - UK-based
- WS Atkins - UK-based
- RMJM Architects - UK-based
- TAK Group - Malaysia-based
- Cox Group - Australia-based
* I've heard that SOM and KPF may have offices there, but couldn't find any information from their websites
Salary packages:
- AED15,000-35,000/month or more, which is roughly = $50,000-115,000/year (US) ($1 - 3.67AED)
- relocation expenses (maybe)
- 1-3 round trip tickets to home country per year
- medical and (maybe) life insurance
- 22-50 days holiday
- accommodation (maybe) - if so, it may be shared (UAE rents are skyrocketing so getting accommodation could be quite helpful)
- tax free (My understanding is that for US citizens you’ll have to prove that you are a “bona fide resident” of another country and not in the US for 330 of 365 days in a year. If you can do this, there are no taxes up to roughly $85,0000. Afterwards there is a percentage that gets taxed.)
Important considerations:
- it’s really hot
- you need to get an “alcoholic license” (yes “alcoholic”) to buy alcohol for home use
- alcohol is only served at restaurants or bars that are part of hotel/sports complexes
- work week is Sunday through Thursday and often a half day on Saturday. Fridays off.
- average work week likely to be 50hrs or more
- non-married couples may not live together
- crime rates are very low, however this may be due to very strict punishments for offenses (ex. not too much pda and definitely don’t drink and drive)
- it seems impossible to get around without a car; however cars and gasoline are relatively cheap
- traffic can be really bad and due to the nature of UAE's demographics (70-80% foreign nationals) there are severely clashing driving styles
My questions:
- I’m especially curious to learn more of personal experiences in Dubai or Abu Dhabi, if you prefer to keep it private but are willing to share your thoughts, please email me
- I’m hopeful to get a better handle on salary expectations (I’ve started negotiating with one firm, but not sure where I fit in with the UAE market)
I’d also like more information on the firms themselves - working environments, people, types of work done in the office, and whether I’ve missed some of the major firms in the area
- Where to live? What are the differences in neighborhoods in Dubai? What to look for, consider?
- What to do? What are the better entertainment/diversion options? Are the beaches worthwhile?
Any other relevant questions or comments are welcome.
Primary firms (addendum):
- Gensler - US-based
Academic institution (possible teaching positions):
- American University of Sharjah (15km away from Dubai)
also:
Doha, Qatar
Manama, Bahrain
offices:
Woods Bagot (australian)
Kling (germany - but not recommended)
Meecon (local)
DXB-Lab - (local)
Norr International (canada, but also local)
Gensler
BRT Architekten (germany)
Crone Partners (australian)
Aedes (international)
offices:
Nakheel (UAE)
Keo International (UAE)
generally its a good way to earn more money than usual and it would be a good decision to go there only to earn money - and honestly from my own experience there is not much more chances to do more next to working. I only know that i worked more hours in Hong KOng but also Dubai is massive working hours (quite likely 13-16 hours a day plus lots of weekends)...
For a senior job you can get around 40 to 55.000 AED a month if you have the right qualifications... (10 to 14k $)
if you are not that beachkid and dont like sun and hot weather or extensive shopping you wont have much possibilities to do other stuff on your weekends...
yes, you need a car otherwise its a pain just crossing the streets...
did i said its hot ?! in summer it can be 55 degree celsius and you dont wanna be longer than 2 min outside
housing is extraordinairy too and most times you need to pay the whole rent for one year in one go.
while your friends will have a relaxted sunday you will already sitting in your office doing your stuff and will take some time to adjust to a different working week.
You will generally work on crazy crazy crazy projects fullfilling the developers dreams dealing with Sheiks who have no clue about architecture and just wanting to have some kind of las vegas....
During ramadan you are forbidden to smoke, drink and eat anywhere in public, even not on streets or in your office...if you than want to eat something, do it in respect to your fellow muslim friends somewhere in the dark :-)
all in all: if you have the chance of finding a job somewhere else, do it and dont go to Dubai - for my experience its not worth going there...
From my experience working abroad, it seems alot of the experience you gain in overseas markets does not translate at all to the industry back in the U.S. Personally I'm probably going to wait till i have some sort of license in the U.S. before heading overseas for long periods of time.
don't be alarmed - it rarely, hardly ever gets up to 55 degrees C. it does get and stay hot and humid from May to October (avg. 37 C). but from did-October to May, it is very pleasant to be out and Dubai (and Abu Dhabi) are in fact very outdoors oriented places. it is not all about air-conditioning.
yes, you need a car, but because lots of people buy new cars and sell them within a year, and lots of ex-pats buy new cars and then leave the country after a year or two, used cars are at least 1/3 less than the States or Europe or Australia. driving is no worse than Houston.
work pressures are intense and can be as described above, but not all offices work this way.
dubai has more charm and things other than shopping and the beach than most people give it credit for, but it is also a great 'jumping-off' place for easy weekend or longer visits to Oman, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Africa, India and back to Europe or to Asia. incredibly well served by air links to all these destinations and more.
housing is the biggest single problem - both finding a good place and finding one that is affordable. house prices are escalating at about 35%/year.
offices in Dubai are not just working on projects in the Gulf, as many of the major developers are now doing projects in India, Africa, Asia and back to Europe.
if you are into online porn, please stay away from dubai. a lot of those good sites are banned there. its a pain.
Porn sites are banned in Indonesia as well, did not stop one of the tech guys at the mining company I worked for from downloading over 300 GB of porn and crashing the company network.
if you are in Dubai and really need to access your daily pron, this is easily accomplished with a VPN, such as AnchorFree. it is not that difficult.
^ Limited or no access to illicit material will not be problematic; however, I will really miss VOIP sites like skype. Is there also a way around this? In Istanbul, we have to use sites like VTunnel to access YouTube, which has been inexplicably banned for the last few months.
> Any experiences with banking in UAE? Is it difficult to transfer funds to accounts outside the country?
> tempo01 - I remember reading your previous thread on the subject. So it seems you took the plunge. Do you regret it? What aspects made it especially not worth while?
At the moment I'm living in Istanbul, so while there will definitely be changes in the move, I have a bit of experience living in a Muslim country.
Perhaps I can be corrected on the following rationales for my UAE considerations:
Professionally, it seems to be a good move. Although projects are processed far too quickly, it might be a good way to assume responsibilities faster than most other places (which may be as bad as it is good). It would also be good to get experience on some of the largest and most prominent urban design/planning projects in the world. Following a year or so in the UAE, I might be more valuable to potential employers in the US/UK due to my experience in the region.
And as for financially, it seems unparalleled in my search thus far. At the end of the year, taking account income vs. expenses, I'll have at least an extra $20-30,000 more in Dubai than any other city I compared (London, Istanbul, Chicago, NYC, Boston). Due to my massive loans looming on the horizon, this is certainly a draw.
Anyone have thoughts on the last comments?
Also, anyone with experience in Bahrain or Qatar? Are a lot of those projects now being handled by firms in the UAE?
And from people who've worked in Dubai, if you'd advise against it, why exactly?
you can access and use Skype via a VPN, such as AnchorFee.
most construction and service workers send money out of the country on a weekly basis.
we use skype a good bit when coordinating between the US offices and the UAE offices...
its funny i don't think we are allowed to use the VOIP system in dubai b/c the royals want everyone to use the established phone system or something? i'm still not sure what the deal is... it would just be alot easier than dealing with skype over multiple offices...
is this one of dante's circles of hell?
Anyone have experience with living situations? Based on my limited time in the city, it seemed as if there were no urban centers in Dubai, the closest approximation being the large malls or some of the neighborhoods closer to the creek. Neither of these appeared to be particularly desirable places to live.
If no urban life is available, what are the attractive features to look for when choosing housing? Near a beach? With a (sea) view? With nice amenities (ie. fitness center, pool, etc.)? Are these sort of places more common, thereby making them attainable living places or are they reserved for the super rich. Granted rents are skyrocketing at 20-30% or more despite attempts to curb this, but I'm just hoping to get a sense of what's out there.
The creek area seems to be quite traffic prone. So I wonder if there are other areas in town that are better to live in, perhaps with less traffic.
Any comments on cultural differences, aside from work week?
Aedas and Khatib and Alami are big there too.
There aren't really a whole lot of cultural differences in the gulf. Sure you'll see some traditional looking Arabs, but they mostly hang out at malls, shop all day. I lived in Dubai for 9 years. It's and extremely modern society but some areas are quite conservative like Sharijah and Al Ayoun.
It's the weather that is annoying there. Can we say hell on earth?
Gulf Cities are kinda boring though. They are ultra modern but highly inaccessible and devoid of any real culture. They are basically soulless places.
If anyone decides to live there, there is no need to worry about language. You could spend your entire life without knowing a word of Arabic.
Restaurants aren't bad either. Since there is a massive Iranian cultural presence in the Emirates many people prefer Iranian restaurants. There are also a lot of good seafood places too but just stay far away from all the world class resorts and hotels. they'll hit you up with some serious loot. Other than that cost of living isn't really that bad. It's definately less than places like DC or Philly.
In the Middle East, the best places I've been to by far: Beirut, Lebanon, Damascus, Syria, Tehran Iran, Cairo, Egypt, and Manama, Bahrain.
But I'm sure down the stretch Baghdad has more potential than any of these places.
But for now, Beirut is incredible. It's a true Urban Arab World experience.
^ Is it feasible to travel to these places above for a weekend or a long weekend? They do sound incredible and I'd want to take advantage of the proximity.
Also, are the working hours at UAE firms too crazy? Do people find any time for themselves?
Anyone else willing to share personal experiences with firms in the UAE, either with a post or an email to me.
It's generally pretty lax there. People leave work at around 3:30 and come in around like 7:30. But since most firms are either Euro or American based, expect long hours. This is the architecture field we are still talking about,
^ Thanks Archmed.
Another addition to the firm list, it looks like OMA is hiring for a Dubai office.
burt hill is always hiring in UAE
^ARCHITORTURE - do you have experience with Burt Hill (or know someone who does)? Just curious what the thoughts are on the company? Good work? working environment? etc.
Hopkins Architects has closed the shop, you should look somewhere else if you want a job in Dubai.
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