So I am putting off working on designing a desk for the main lobby in a county courthouse...but now I'm two weeks away from submitting drawings for bid. The issue is I want a uniform height surface all around - the work surface is at 34" for ADA and I have a transaction top for people walking up 42" high. Do I need to make a lower area in the wall for someone coming on the public side? Any thoughts?
I have worked on bank projects where the client directed us to have a 42" H transaction counter but to provide a shallow "glove rail" at 34" H which I believe was 8" deep. This worked fine for most of their client needs and anything else could be taken care of away from the teller line at a normal desk. Obviously a reception desk is somewhat different, but a lot of it comes down to what the user is required to do in terms of filling out forms, etc.
^ thanks for the quick responses...I'll clarify a little about use. Someone comes in and says 'I got this summons, am I in the right place?' No forms to fill out, technically no work to be done just ask for directions, at most hand over some paper to the staff member. If someone really needs too they could wheel around to the side for help. Not trying to be difficult - just trying to honor the design intent.
have you checked ANSI 117.1? my guess is that if you do not provide for the provision in there, you're going to get called on it when you apply for a permit. you can try to explain the provision away (side access), but i don't think you're going to get too far with that, but you can try.
Just got a response from the Great Lakes ADA center - the new standards will not have an special provisions for this facility type.
ANSI 117.1 - 904.3 is similar to ADAAG 7.2 (2) - talking about goods and services counter. I was hoping since no tangible transaction would occur the desk would be exempt.
So the plan is to make a portion of the desk swing when needed - design intent stays and nobody gets sued...i hope.
it also depends on your local jurisdiction. i was recently working on a bank and they wanted us to make a portion of the check writing station accessible also, despite the fact that patrons could just go to the specifically designed accessible teller line. anyway, my point is, ask around about how stringent your locals are.
this isn't about code requirements or ada requirements, it's about ethics and design quality.
the design intent really doesn't deserve to be honored if it requires that a significant number of those who come to this place must 'wheel around to the side for help'. it's a bad design.
what is design intent about, after all? don't we design to please, to accommodate, to provide a positive experience of some sort?
do only some people merit that positive experience? is it ok to you as a designer that some people experience your design as a negative experience because it excludes consideration of them?
How about the guy in the wheel chair working behind the desk....ya people in wheel chairs are capable of answering questions and giving directions. Why fight something that seem so natural.
I just looked this up myself... and i'm pretty sure that if you give any kind of transaction counter at all to standing-height people, you have to give a transaction top of at least the same depth at ADA height. so, if your 42" high top is 10" deep, then you need 10" at 34" high with enough room for someone to either pull up adjacent or with the knee/toe clearance below for them to pull up under. however, if your desk does not ever have any cross-desk uses (like, filling out forms with the clerk or something), then you probably don't need anything more than the actual transaction top surface.
Jul 4, 08 2:24 am ·
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Lobby desk for everyone?
So I am putting off working on designing a desk for the main lobby in a county courthouse...but now I'm two weeks away from submitting drawings for bid. The issue is I want a uniform height surface all around - the work surface is at 34" for ADA and I have a transaction top for people walking up 42" high. Do I need to make a lower area in the wall for someone coming on the public side? Any thoughts?
of course you need to provide accessibility for the public.....
I have worked on bank projects where the client directed us to have a 42" H transaction counter but to provide a shallow "glove rail" at 34" H which I believe was 8" deep. This worked fine for most of their client needs and anything else could be taken care of away from the teller line at a normal desk. Obviously a reception desk is somewhat different, but a lot of it comes down to what the user is required to do in terms of filling out forms, etc.
^ thanks for the quick responses...I'll clarify a little about use. Someone comes in and says 'I got this summons, am I in the right place?' No forms to fill out, technically no work to be done just ask for directions, at most hand over some paper to the staff member. If someone really needs too they could wheel around to the side for help. Not trying to be difficult - just trying to honor the design intent.
have you checked ANSI 117.1? my guess is that if you do not provide for the provision in there, you're going to get called on it when you apply for a permit. you can try to explain the provision away (side access), but i don't think you're going to get too far with that, but you can try.
Just got a response from the Great Lakes ADA center - the new standards will not have an special provisions for this facility type.
ANSI 117.1 - 904.3 is similar to ADAAG 7.2 (2) - talking about goods and services counter. I was hoping since no tangible transaction would occur the desk would be exempt.
So the plan is to make a portion of the desk swing when needed - design intent stays and nobody gets sued...i hope.
it also depends on your local jurisdiction. i was recently working on a bank and they wanted us to make a portion of the check writing station accessible also, despite the fact that patrons could just go to the specifically designed accessible teller line. anyway, my point is, ask around about how stringent your locals are.
hi stephanie :P
this isn't about code requirements or ada requirements, it's about ethics and design quality.
the design intent really doesn't deserve to be honored if it requires that a significant number of those who come to this place must 'wheel around to the side for help'. it's a bad design.
what is design intent about, after all? don't we design to please, to accommodate, to provide a positive experience of some sort?
do only some people merit that positive experience? is it ok to you as a designer that some people experience your design as a negative experience because it excludes consideration of them?
How about the guy in the wheel chair working behind the desk....ya people in wheel chairs are capable of answering questions and giving directions. Why fight something that seem so natural.
I just looked this up myself... and i'm pretty sure that if you give any kind of transaction counter at all to standing-height people, you have to give a transaction top of at least the same depth at ADA height. so, if your 42" high top is 10" deep, then you need 10" at 34" high with enough room for someone to either pull up adjacent or with the knee/toe clearance below for them to pull up under. however, if your desk does not ever have any cross-desk uses (like, filling out forms with the clerk or something), then you probably don't need anything more than the actual transaction top surface.
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