More than 3 years ago I decided to take control over the view from my windows, --- Graffiti can be nice instead of boring town walls , bricks and windows ,and what Graffiti add is first of all Color, Color is nice. But to much Graffiti is to much Graffiti.
Also , what better way to Kill The Brick, than adding to Graffiti what those people havn't realised -- how to much Graffiti , to many letters and cult messeages simply make people filter out the colors -- one can't tell one graffiti from another there are simply to many colors, to much anger , as like the artists want to expose their messeage and still turn their back to their audience, and that shine thru. To often I wondered how an artist it that way can force a messeage thru, and deliver so little beauty in fact often the opposite --- and what I find realy strange, how a great oppotunity are lost in Graffiti, the oppotunity other painters thirst, the oppotunity to display an 8 by 3 meter painting ; if you just realise what that can do to people, case you has a messeage.
I don't think that legibility makes a piece less powerful. To be clear, "street art" is a general term that refers to much more than graffiti. Stickers, tagging, etc are all included. It seems like you are talking more about graffiti/murals though, so I will stick to that. If you cannot tell where one persons work ends and the other begins, you need to look a little bit closer and study it before you criticize something that you are new to. Also, I wouldn't consider graffiti angry. There is a certain amount of bold action by putting your work on a wall that doesn't belong to you, but does that make them angry? A lot of graffiti is precise, refined and stylistically honed to the writers preferences. I have seen much more anger on canvas than I ever have in aerosol.
"There is a certain amount of bold action by putting your work on a wall that doesn't belong to you, but does that make them angry?"
There are good and there are bad Graffiti, and my experience is that most painters care nothing about what anyone else but other graffiti painters think about their works. Simple fact and I just state fact.
There are also a lot of fame in graffiti ,some who started a particular trend ,then talking to many different painters who say allmost the same must prove some facts -- for one , when there are a hundred pieces in one place it is only insides who can tell the difference and you has to be very much an insider to, as most say that a lot of pieces make it so that the single piece drown in magnitude ,and when so much efford often are put in one piece, then that is bad. The angry attitude is something you can read, the turning the back to an audience are build into graffiti , I jjust see these things as facts, what I can see and hear, -- so you are wrong blaming me about any of this, and as you reconise I do not paint graffiti so how can I answer different than the average audience.
What other painters said, is that Street-Art and Graffiti go well together. As then all those Graffiti pices do not drown eachother -- it work so that so different pieces sort of make a frame so you can make an oppinion about a piece before getting in to the next piece -- again this is not my say but what I hear, and again not my foult, beside please don't blame me, it's just how things progress.
Sorry -- had more time than I thought, so I try answer this ;
"I have seen much more anger on canvas than I ever have in aerosol."
Guess so -- but then those canvas was not 7 by 3 meter and in public display. I don't blame Graffiti at all, as when you look Graffiti often focus important issues , but you kind of blame me for something "people" blame Graffiti, as if I has particular idea about Graffiti, I has not.
You can think I think like this or that when I say that Graffiti sort of turn it's back to audience, and focus other artists. But there are nothing wrong in art that is art for artists, rather than art for an audience. Still I think Graffiti often miss a great oppotunity , and maybe that has different resons, but I only refere my own experience, knowing the reactions about my paintings -- there I very often feel bad, as a lot of people go to me and say "now I like your paintings, as I can understand them better than that Graffiti" . And so often I am left there where I has to defend Graffiti ,please remember that.
There are many way's to Kill The Brick. But talking about Street Art I find it essensial that it is for the local area, the street where it is painted. Street Art is not painted on trains see. It is not the Graffiti painters those who from the start don't like a new competitor that shal be the critic about Street Art -- the real critic is the local people living in the street. It is their critic I listen to, not someone who come from the other end of the city to my street.
Graffiti is what it is. Now that my previous ridiculous statement is out of the way, let me say a couple things. All that I was saying about graffiti vs street art is that graffiti is one part of street art. Some people design stickers/posters and put them up with the same aspirations of graffiti artists (getting up). So, I was just trying to clarify that.
Graffiti artists have no rights to a wall. And I have seen some amazing halls of fame. It is an artform that has more to do with exploring the city for walls and getting their name/style recognized. The halls of fame are expected to change often. Halls of fame are not neat/tidy exhibits of feaured artists. Halls of fame are not museums and I think that is the main thing that you have to understand about graffiti.
I paint as well and it is hugely affected by graffiti. But, I appreciate graffiti for what it is. Murals are a completely different animal. A mural can be great for a community and there are a million examples of this. But, graffiti doesn't operate w/ the same community spirit that those community sponsored walls can provide.
"dude, is that 3dH?" --- I try answer this as clear I use to explain issues such as 3dh ; 3dh is about method -- these imeage is about method.
Graffiti I guess is also about method , a specific ability or a drive impossible to stop, and again I can not critic graffiti I do not paint Graffiti, but I think there are great pieces.
The fact is that I am not a very good painter -- some of you who read and understood know, that for me it is about develobing new methods. There 3dh and Street Art work the same for me ; if you think this Per Corell just project some images and then paint after, then try yourself or ask someone who tried, you can not. Can not project an image , grab the red brush and try fill out the red color why -- beacurse of your shaddow, and if you has put some red color on ,where the image show it shuld ; then how do you suppose you can figure out, how and where the paint is painted on within the red area ? ---- So this Street-Art is for me about develobing methods so you Can, and as you see it work , but not the way you think. As I do not just project an image, and then "paint after", you can not do that.
Likewise 3dh is about develobing methods -- with that, the idea was to find a method that did not work like the old methods, just written into fast code, but realy the same ; 3dh is still to be challanced, being the only method that go strait from 3D model to manufactored individual buildng parts, parts all different if that is required and with perfect fit.
So the day I publish how, you all will say "offcaurse, it is so easy that anyone could figure that out -- figure out how to paint a 3 by 3 meter portrait in 20 minuts -- just like 3dh that is so simple, that offcaurse anyone can figure that out. Guess that isthe privileage making design the issue, design as in "develobing new methods".
I realy would like to describe that, but if I could, I would start writing .-- Then I am not sure it is such bad a thing, to start agrea there are bad art.
Per as someone that has participated in "street art" i can say that you have stumbled upon an addictive factor when you say
"great opportunity are lost in Graffiti, the opportunity other painters thirst"
I know your out there doing it and what's good for you is cool, thats what you want to display to the world and i applaud and champion your work.
however there may be some who think it FUCKING SUCKS
thats Art.
If i were you i wouldn't underestimate the potential of what is around you. those artist that you speak of who have created works where you "can't tell one graffiti from another" may either be communicating in a language you don't understand, or creating an important dialog about the history of a people how have found a favorable factor and voice in that location.
just because you view people who create tags and less conservative Graffiti as artists who "expose their message and still turn their back to their audience" doesn't mean that this is the case. YOU just might not be their audience. thats part of the beautiful thing that is street art, you learn that by developing your style choice of location and media as a way to target a specific audience
or perhaps you are their audience but just because they lack skills is no reason to hate. paint over that shit, but paint something thats better to you. thats what street art is about, an open dialog in a community forced as public record by defying the law.
Maybe we are a bit slow here in copenhagen , --- compared what I see on the web, and at this fence surrounding Christiania, there are 14 Graffiti pieces but only one piece you can call Street Art.
Now I see my view are a bit limited here, as when I conform to Street Art, then Stencils is from my perspective just a tool, -- tags say me nothing ansd stickers are simply to small to carry a messeage , I am sure that to carry a messeage today, and if you want to open peoples eyes for beauty, then it has to be loud, it must be big , --- and very potent.
And still , where I am heading proberly will be to image people, not Icons but the local bum or the girl who lived here for 10 years without anyone knowing her, the caretaker and the mailman, --- isn't it strange, that to point out what a beautifull face she has, what a novel is imprinted in the face of the bum, you has to paint it 3 by 3 meter ?
"but paint something thats better to you. thats what street art is about, an open dialog in a community forced as public record by defying the law."
I agrea , and several more agrea that to paint over, is allright as long as what you paint , is better. Now what "is better" will not caurse a problem there, as when you paint over , anyone will reconise when you painted over something everyone seen a hundred times and has been there for halve a year, -- that is a healty attitude, that there must be a rotaton, new pieces must replace the old, and I don't think there are any problem there, if just painters would take a look at the piece they cover, before they do so. --- many do not, and that is what vorry me.
I had pieces standing for up to near 3 years, pieces that had their own audience who knew it was only for a time. I seen many such pieces replaced with pure crap, -- pieces that obvious was a great plus for the street removed and painted over with something that very soon was removed by something that atleast was not ugly -- as a reaction by others who seem to care. I just think that Graffiti with Street Art , has a greater oppotunity , reaching out and offering something in develobing, carry the potential of a renewal.
Graffiti havn't changed much the past 20 years, it still expose the same frame and only very few pieces within Graffiti want to challance that frame , as soon as something do that, it is not Graffiti anymore, but Street Art , and that I find wrong. I simply find it wrong when an art become conservative, and what I hear from other painters, is not stubbern in fact they all search inspiration in these things.
I find it wrong when Graffiti finaly ameet tolerance, that "legal fences" are then installed at emty industri or unused parking lots , rebuild into a Graffiti resevat , far from the streets where it is supposed to challange. But I think the challanges carried by today's Street Art, is more relevant than the old messeages, those that make a frame for Graffiti, just that frame Street Art seem to be able to break.
I am not sure where you have been in the past 20 years, but graffiti has changed completely. It is much more commercialized and there have been huge jumps in style. 20 years ago, there were not 3d pieces and very little abstract pieces. I think you need to bury your head in a couple magazines. The method is the same, but the product has changed itself after it changed the world. If you look at graphic design and fashion, they have both completely changed since the birth of hip hop (including break dancing, mc-ing, dj-ing and graffiti). So please don't get graffiti confused.
[http://www.daimgallery.com/]
[http://www.seakone.com/category/pieces/]
Good for you that you have had pieces standing for 3 years, but the rules of the cordial art world does not apply to graffiti. Painting portraits (realistic murals) is one small portion of street artists that will get up. Graffiti is ephemeral, competitive and cut throat. There are no rules of who can paint over what. It is up to each writer to decide if they want to take a wall or not and that's the nature of the beast. Chaos is a part of street part, for your own sanity and temper, it is better to embrace it.
"Chaos is a part of street art"
What rules according to chaos is no rule at all, and within this chaos, I found more rules than anywhere else. If chaos is the game why even bother -- and what I wonder is if you are not exactly stating what I suggest , that Graffiti turn it's back to audience...
What vorry me more, is if Graffiti is turning it's back to itself to those who contribuate ; "There are no rules of who can paint over what."
Now wouldn't everything in this world, be much easier , if there was rules and not chaos , no rules as the only rule, and still a lot of what you can ,what you can think and do, how and what you are supposed to think and do , and all with no responsability -- towerds conventions that is allright for me, but the responsability to the street , the people in the street , those who has the street outside their windows and who has the street as their local arear , are they among who Graffiti care nothing about that case, I finaly found a real difference from Graffiti to Street Art. -- I thought it was about reclaiming your street,
Beside in this world without rules , it seem to me that there are nothing but rules.
But allow me to image the two pieces next to mine , first the one to the right of mine , personaly I find it nice allmost to nice, a bit academic maybe, they was 3 who painted each their piece, I can't tell one from the other sorry ;
To my left there are this, I like that better ;
Now I took a few more picturesof the newest pieces but I will not put them all here.
Now these are the average pieces here, anyone who has an expert oppinion are welcome to comment, I would be happy.
I put a few more in, so this is about it, -- what "quality" this fence carry and an average of the pieces, the last two tell what I say -- out of 14 Graffiti pieces , there are one maybe two street Art pieces, so why is everyone picking on just that when "everything" is allowed in Graffiti ?
ok.....Per Corell....calm down. Of course there can be some graphic unity to a wal. I never said that there wasn't. What I was saying that there is no set of rules to who can paint over anyone else's piece.
I think there may be a language barrier here. Differentiating between Street Art and graffiti shows that you do not know what you're talking about. If you do not see that there are three writers on the first wall (or one person using 3 pen names), then you need to do some research before you start making sweeping statements.
Graffiti is an artform (sub genre of Street Art) that is constantly changing, experimenting and exploring. If you do not like a piece, that doesn't mean that you can decide if it is art or not. The chaos involved in it is completely integral to appreciating it. If you like something that is permanent and more meaningful to those that pass by (as if it was designed for them), then you need to stick to comissioned murals my friend. There are a million examples of murals comissioned by a community. But, to understand graffiti, you have to understand that the people passing by do not want graffiti artists to put their pieces up. People don't want to see it from their windows. So to ask a graffiti artist to take into consideration the people passing by (the next day after the aerosol has dried) shows that you do not completely understand what graffiti is.
That is opposite here -- the alternative would be gray walls and windows, this is an argument I used often in my strange situation, where people passing who stop to tell they like my aproach better "then that graffiti" -- those I can ask if gray walls would be better than colors , a question that often open peoples eyes for part of it. And fact is, that most who has these graffiti just outside their windows realy like Graffiti better -- they ar forced to an oppinion and suddenly one day, there are a piece that will later rmind them of a good day, so I am sure Graffiti are more apriciated than you think, -- atleast when a legal fence work, and the amount of lose tags are minimised on the houses opposite.
Also The first image -- the one with 3 allmost identical writings, for the street it act more as Decor than Graffiti. When I say it is allmost to good amd a bit academic, what I mean is that the preparations must be more important than the instant creativity -- something we sometimes see, when some guy without any aids is able to fabricate a piece just like that, and ontop another one still holding a picture in his mind, and even without ground paint. it's true there are some realy skilled painters , strangly they often work alone.
But that is still where it leave me -- I realised what a privileage it is to have one side of the street as a legal fence, how different this make this street , and please remember this is not just any street but that is another story, -- it was people in this street who finaly some 36 yueas ago had enough of seeing a huge military area standing emty , for years, people who had the nerve to tear down openings in that fence, so the Freestate Christiania could start , this is also the power in the people here , something I intend to remind them one day I am finished portraiting just ordanary people living here,
But first we has to tell these Graffiti painters that on one hand we love their colors, but if they turn their back to us, they turn their back to something they could profit from.
The quality such a legal fence offer in this street is priceless, still the fence even it is the oldest legal fence in copenhagen, is allmost falling down. --- only in the winter when tree four pieces fallen into Cristiania, or out into the street uncovering backyards in a mess. In other parts of the town Graffiti are boxed within new fenced old parking lots ,and at far ends of abandoned industry , new "legal fences" are offered belived to remove the Graffiti from house walls , -- then that don't remove the Tags, and the same anger continue --- Now I seen what a plus such a wall can be, how beloved some pieces has been and some people allmost cried, when a piece been left there for years for it qualities are painted over, -- how people who that way has been enrolled start wait for a new good piece, and become has a meaning about it, not just turn their back to it , but start apriciate the colors --- and that even it will newer be more than just colors, but it is colors instead of gray walls.
"I don't buy the 8x3 meter argument. Just 'cause something is big doesn't make it more powerful. At least not in art.
I always thought it was harder to make a good small work than good large work."
Exactly -- I find it most difficult to find the right nozzle to make a fine line, it's like either you emty the can painting over huge area like with the Silver Burner, or the paint spot is impossible to maneage with just a little wind , this place allway's are a bit windy and then it is easier to paint Graffiti, as you can go closer and draw clear lines, bur toning out is allmost impossible ---- Then painting BIG help, as the details become easier to muster.
But as you see above, the fence also decide a lot --- I would rather see tree smaller pieces than one HUGE one ,beside the attitude of that huge one made it untouched for halve a year now ; it's like people who come here not sp often, has some respect for pieces like that, where smaller pieces more often are painted over by huge ones, --- something I am sure is bound in the wish of having atleast a month display for your piece, before someone else take over.
Before I had a bigger area ;
Many of those images was left there for a year or more -- but only becaurse I all the time changed the expression, placed other expressions instead of one, so it still was the same image, but it changed over time, -- that worked fine and had a great audience, they are the ones who try force me to expand again.
And it would be good to continue the story, still the problem is, that when there are rules, and there are no rules, then someone who is just jeloux over what he think in his mind, can allway's find "exchouses" exchouses that even can be used to spark a piece war, a war against what is different, and what is different can not complain, as "these are the rules". -- So I don't know if it's worth it, instead of exposing something I find beautifull, it so aasy by just one charecter, can turn into a war. And I am not here to fight but to paint.
In fact I was doing quite well on the track for a more 3D aproach, when suddenly my Street Art wasn't political correct, and some guy collected a crowd to paint over what been develobing in harmony with the surroundings for years, --- I to like to refine one piece, and the small secrets unifying the yellow natrium Street Light with momocrome pigment realy started to unfold at that point, -- but then some crazy crowd make it a political statement to paint over, and they care nothing about , what they paint over . -- Suddenly art become a war against other painters, and if you don't like someone, then the rules allow you to paint over -- if you collect a crowd to help you , the guy can't do much about it right.
But this I guess is the top of what I maneaged in terms of adding 3D, it worked, so said my audience , but it is not there anymore, and I wonder, if with these "rules" , if what will happen when I again reach that point, would not be exactly the same as last time.
See you maybe think I paint Murals -- I didn't know what that was two month's ago.
Per-Corell.....are you on crack? What the hell was that about?.............
"I to like to refine one piece, and the small secrets unifying the yellow natrium Street Light with momocrome pigment realy started to unfold at that point, -- but then some crazy crowd make it a political statement to paint over, and they care nothing about , what they paint over . -- Suddenly art become a war against other painters, and if you don't like someone, then the rules allow you to paint over -- if you collect a crowd to help you , the guy can't do much about it right."
I find it much more interesting to talk about real issues -- things you painted, why you think this piece you sprayed is better, and why you find it allright when it is painted over.
Things like " I painted this and after a week I expected it to be painted over" , that would be nice, to know what you been painting so to know your style, see I don't count the hours I spend spray painting ,but painting is something different than ideology ,and true I has my view from the actual pieces some of I showed here, so it would be nice to see images as arguments, in particular as Street Art and Graffiti are made by it's partisionars. Images please.
The reson I ask for images is that Graffiti don't has to stop there, Graffiti for me is a way to get an image dispalayed with a speciel effect, I can then take a foto and work on from that , make a close-up in charcoal on canvas and then project a patterrn and a color onto that, before I take a new foto for the next step ;
But please --- when you state a rule, there are nothing better than to place an image , I place images that has been painted over and has an oppinion based on that experience, and any Graffiti painter take images, so please put in pictures so I am not alone doing that, othervise anyone even some who don't in fact make Graffiti, can have a say about this important issue.
For me it has been important to develob methods so a 3 by 4 image can be painted in 20 to 30 minuts, but there are more to this kind of Street Art than just being able to place a strong image as fast as possible.
My debate with other Graffiti painters has been in the street, there I only had huge interest in these images, in the street I spoken to so many other painters painting so different pieces, and heard the same complains as I put down here -- they all hate that rule, and they all agrea that before you paint over you look, look and ask yourself if what you want to display, is better.
That shuld be a small and sense rule , to ask yourself if you could paint that, and if you can't, then find a better place with a piece that is maybe in a not so exposed place but a piece that could be painted over -- isn't it strange, that such suggestions is what everyone painting, I met agrea as would be a nice extra rule. Becaurse everyone I met who do paint, all know pieces that newer shuld be painted over.
Just look at paintings and you can have some examples of canvases. I have a blackbook full of images, but I don't have them in a place that you can see them.
It is exactly pieces like that I would like to see more of - many Graffiti painters stay with letters as they find Street Art more difficult in terms of painting skills, -- Letters are easyer still I find them more difficult and often when I talk with Graffiti painters I realise that what I find easy, they find difficult.
Now in this particular area where I live, there shuld be a reson for an explotion in Street Art ; all the ingridiense are there ; local problems with traffic -- Christiania who's fence I am using, fighting it's right for it's 37 year to decide for itself, where just today years of discussions enden , pointing to a violent "solution" , our local community being in support for our naibour community , but no real voices shouting that out clear.
And if it wasn't for this wet weather and my lack of finances to buy a load of spray cans, I would be out there ,erasing an old Graffiti piece that is way to long for the site and has been left there way to long, with no real messeage concerning our local problems ,I would be out there to paint a support statement even a political statement about our local problems and the silli way the goverment thin they can solve them.
To sad I been to much into picturing the local people just to open their eyes , I wished I had the cans. See with the states wish to take over the freestate Christiania these silli 36 years after it started, these are images we possible could see here :
And it is images about what it could have been, that is needed.
Yes it can be difficult to add images , and what is even more a problem, -- when finaly the code are right, one find out that this site work best with small 240x320 pixel images where most other fora's alike, work with 420 x 640 images.
But allow me to update in hope the tread continue, Street Art is an issue worth having an oppinion about. And for me it worked for years just replacing the images within 2 or 3 weeks -- that build an audience .
Here a close-up of the latest added:
But as I think I said -- I want to change to imaging the local people, they are often more interesting than picturing Icons, people in that same street as where the murals are , here a sketch but it's easy to blow up that onto the fence, and then it realy become Street Art, when it picture the local people people living there.
You will be surprised when I take apart the images of just people, and paint them 3 by 5 meters , maybe just their eyes or in the dark, guess you has your xpertations and they will be neglected but that is the reson this thing is here, to remind you that if you are looking for expressions then it is you that must open your eyes.
Never seen Ballon Graffiti before , -- Sorry I has only a single new image to share, -- these day's I replace the oldest with a new with some weeks apart, I found that the best way ,at the moment, to deliver new images and still have the older images left in peace.
Things don't allway's end up as projected, above the new picture as I hoped it to display , but here how it turned out ;
Now I said these images is not only painted here and now -- they are all carefully propared. To get the originaly image projected onto the fence in the right angle, th image has been thru 3D Max where the image is projected onto a 3D model of fence and street, exactly where supposed to be. after that a camera "take the picture", and that image from decided view point, is what project onto the fence. Then my methods take over and what is not possible just like that, produce the Mural.
Now that sound easy , but it is not. And I will find out what detail went wrong, -- proberly the fact, that I didn't have the light blue background color, to fine line the image after it was painted.
Street Art
More than 3 years ago I decided to take control over the view from my windows, --- Graffiti can be nice instead of boring town walls , bricks and windows ,and what Graffiti add is first of all Color, Color is nice. But to much Graffiti is to much Graffiti.
Also , what better way to Kill The Brick, than adding to Graffiti what those people havn't realised -- how to much Graffiti , to many letters and cult messeages simply make people filter out the colors -- one can't tell one graffiti from another there are simply to many colors, to much anger , as like the artists want to expose their messeage and still turn their back to their audience, and that shine thru. To often I wondered how an artist it that way can force a messeage thru, and deliver so little beauty in fact often the opposite --- and what I find realy strange, how a great oppotunity are lost in Graffiti, the oppotunity other painters thirst, the oppotunity to display an 8 by 3 meter painting ; if you just realise what that can do to people, case you has a messeage.
I don't think that legibility makes a piece less powerful. To be clear, "street art" is a general term that refers to much more than graffiti. Stickers, tagging, etc are all included. It seems like you are talking more about graffiti/murals though, so I will stick to that. If you cannot tell where one persons work ends and the other begins, you need to look a little bit closer and study it before you criticize something that you are new to. Also, I wouldn't consider graffiti angry. There is a certain amount of bold action by putting your work on a wall that doesn't belong to you, but does that make them angry? A lot of graffiti is precise, refined and stylistically honed to the writers preferences. I have seen much more anger on canvas than I ever have in aerosol.
dude, is that 3dH?
google up scribble jam in cincinatti..... they used to have graf displays during the event..... i went to a few of them ....
b
"There is a certain amount of bold action by putting your work on a wall that doesn't belong to you, but does that make them angry?"
There are good and there are bad Graffiti, and my experience is that most painters care nothing about what anyone else but other graffiti painters think about their works. Simple fact and I just state fact.
There are also a lot of fame in graffiti ,some who started a particular trend ,then talking to many different painters who say allmost the same must prove some facts -- for one , when there are a hundred pieces in one place it is only insides who can tell the difference and you has to be very much an insider to, as most say that a lot of pieces make it so that the single piece drown in magnitude ,and when so much efford often are put in one piece, then that is bad. The angry attitude is something you can read, the turning the back to an audience are build into graffiti , I jjust see these things as facts, what I can see and hear, -- so you are wrong blaming me about any of this, and as you reconise I do not paint graffiti so how can I answer different than the average audience.
What other painters said, is that Street-Art and Graffiti go well together. As then all those Graffiti pices do not drown eachother -- it work so that so different pieces sort of make a frame so you can make an oppinion about a piece before getting in to the next piece -- again this is not my say but what I hear, and again not my foult, beside please don't blame me, it's just how things progress.
Sorry -- had more time than I thought, so I try answer this ;
"I have seen much more anger on canvas than I ever have in aerosol."
Guess so -- but then those canvas was not 7 by 3 meter and in public display. I don't blame Graffiti at all, as when you look Graffiti often focus important issues , but you kind of blame me for something "people" blame Graffiti, as if I has particular idea about Graffiti, I has not.
You can think I think like this or that when I say that Graffiti sort of turn it's back to audience, and focus other artists. But there are nothing wrong in art that is art for artists, rather than art for an audience. Still I think Graffiti often miss a great oppotunity , and maybe that has different resons, but I only refere my own experience, knowing the reactions about my paintings -- there I very often feel bad, as a lot of people go to me and say "now I like your paintings, as I can understand them better than that Graffiti" . And so often I am left there where I has to defend Graffiti ,please remember that.
"dude, is that 3dH?"
There are many way's to Kill The Brick. But talking about Street Art I find it essensial that it is for the local area, the street where it is painted. Street Art is not painted on trains see. It is not the Graffiti painters those who from the start don't like a new competitor that shal be the critic about Street Art -- the real critic is the local people living in the street. It is their critic I listen to, not someone who come from the other end of the city to my street.
Graffiti is what it is. Now that my previous ridiculous statement is out of the way, let me say a couple things. All that I was saying about graffiti vs street art is that graffiti is one part of street art. Some people design stickers/posters and put them up with the same aspirations of graffiti artists (getting up). So, I was just trying to clarify that.
Graffiti artists have no rights to a wall. And I have seen some amazing halls of fame. It is an artform that has more to do with exploring the city for walls and getting their name/style recognized. The halls of fame are expected to change often. Halls of fame are not neat/tidy exhibits of feaured artists. Halls of fame are not museums and I think that is the main thing that you have to understand about graffiti.
I paint as well and it is hugely affected by graffiti. But, I appreciate graffiti for what it is. Murals are a completely different animal. A mural can be great for a community and there are a million examples of this. But, graffiti doesn't operate w/ the same community spirit that those community sponsored walls can provide.
Have you ever checked out www.oostercollective.com
It is an awesome resource for street art from all around the world and in all mediums.
I love it..
Have you ever checked out www.oostercollective.com
It is an awesome resource for street art from all around the world and in all mediums.
I love it..
"dude, is that 3dH?" --- I try answer this as clear I use to explain issues such as 3dh ; 3dh is about method -- these imeage is about method.
Graffiti I guess is also about method , a specific ability or a drive impossible to stop, and again I can not critic graffiti I do not paint Graffiti, but I think there are great pieces.
The fact is that I am not a very good painter -- some of you who read and understood know, that for me it is about develobing new methods. There 3dh and Street Art work the same for me ; if you think this Per Corell just project some images and then paint after, then try yourself or ask someone who tried, you can not. Can not project an image , grab the red brush and try fill out the red color why -- beacurse of your shaddow, and if you has put some red color on ,where the image show it shuld ; then how do you suppose you can figure out, how and where the paint is painted on within the red area ? ---- So this Street-Art is for me about develobing methods so you Can, and as you see it work , but not the way you think. As I do not just project an image, and then "paint after", you can not do that.
Likewise 3dh is about develobing methods -- with that, the idea was to find a method that did not work like the old methods, just written into fast code, but realy the same ; 3dh is still to be challanced, being the only method that go strait from 3D model to manufactored individual buildng parts, parts all different if that is required and with perfect fit.
So the day I publish how, you all will say "offcaurse, it is so easy that anyone could figure that out -- figure out how to paint a 3 by 3 meter portrait in 20 minuts -- just like 3dh that is so simple, that offcaurse anyone can figure that out. Guess that isthe privileage making design the issue, design as in "develobing new methods".
I am a terrible painter.
per
define what a good painter is. Painting is a broad term. There is no such thing as good or bad in art. Art is art
I realy would like to describe that, but if I could, I would start writing .-- Then I am not sure it is such bad a thing, to start agrea there are bad art.
how can one put a value on something that is 100% subjective?
Per as someone that has participated in "street art" i can say that you have stumbled upon an addictive factor when you say
"great opportunity are lost in Graffiti, the opportunity other painters thirst"
I know your out there doing it and what's good for you is cool, thats what you want to display to the world and i applaud and champion your work.
however there may be some who think it FUCKING SUCKS
thats Art.
If i were you i wouldn't underestimate the potential of what is around you. those artist that you speak of who have created works where you "can't tell one graffiti from another" may either be communicating in a language you don't understand, or creating an important dialog about the history of a people how have found a favorable factor and voice in that location.
just because you view people who create tags and less conservative Graffiti as artists who "expose their message and still turn their back to their audience" doesn't mean that this is the case. YOU just might not be their audience. thats part of the beautiful thing that is street art, you learn that by developing your style choice of location and media as a way to target a specific audience
or perhaps you are their audience but just because they lack skills is no reason to hate. paint over that shit, but paint something thats better to you. thats what street art is about, an open dialog in a community forced as public record by defying the law.
Maybe we are a bit slow here in copenhagen , --- compared what I see on the web, and at this fence surrounding Christiania, there are 14 Graffiti pieces but only one piece you can call Street Art.
Now I see my view are a bit limited here, as when I conform to Street Art, then Stencils is from my perspective just a tool, -- tags say me nothing ansd stickers are simply to small to carry a messeage , I am sure that to carry a messeage today, and if you want to open peoples eyes for beauty, then it has to be loud, it must be big , --- and very potent.
And still , where I am heading proberly will be to image people, not Icons but the local bum or the girl who lived here for 10 years without anyone knowing her, the caretaker and the mailman, --- isn't it strange, that to point out what a beautifull face she has, what a novel is imprinted in the face of the bum, you has to paint it 3 by 3 meter ?
"but paint something thats better to you. thats what street art is about, an open dialog in a community forced as public record by defying the law."
I agrea , and several more agrea that to paint over, is allright as long as what you paint , is better. Now what "is better" will not caurse a problem there, as when you paint over , anyone will reconise when you painted over something everyone seen a hundred times and has been there for halve a year, -- that is a healty attitude, that there must be a rotaton, new pieces must replace the old, and I don't think there are any problem there, if just painters would take a look at the piece they cover, before they do so. --- many do not, and that is what vorry me.
I had pieces standing for up to near 3 years, pieces that had their own audience who knew it was only for a time. I seen many such pieces replaced with pure crap, -- pieces that obvious was a great plus for the street removed and painted over with something that very soon was removed by something that atleast was not ugly -- as a reaction by others who seem to care. I just think that Graffiti with Street Art , has a greater oppotunity , reaching out and offering something in develobing, carry the potential of a renewal.
Graffiti havn't changed much the past 20 years, it still expose the same frame and only very few pieces within Graffiti want to challance that frame , as soon as something do that, it is not Graffiti anymore, but Street Art , and that I find wrong. I simply find it wrong when an art become conservative, and what I hear from other painters, is not stubbern in fact they all search inspiration in these things.
I find it wrong when Graffiti finaly ameet tolerance, that "legal fences" are then installed at emty industri or unused parking lots , rebuild into a Graffiti resevat , far from the streets where it is supposed to challange. But I think the challanges carried by today's Street Art, is more relevant than the old messeages, those that make a frame for Graffiti, just that frame Street Art seem to be able to break.
I am not sure where you have been in the past 20 years, but graffiti has changed completely. It is much more commercialized and there have been huge jumps in style. 20 years ago, there were not 3d pieces and very little abstract pieces. I think you need to bury your head in a couple magazines. The method is the same, but the product has changed itself after it changed the world. If you look at graphic design and fashion, they have both completely changed since the birth of hip hop (including break dancing, mc-ing, dj-ing and graffiti). So please don't get graffiti confused.
[http://www.daimgallery.com/]
[http://www.seakone.com/category/pieces/]
Good for you that you have had pieces standing for 3 years, but the rules of the cordial art world does not apply to graffiti. Painting portraits (realistic murals) is one small portion of street artists that will get up. Graffiti is ephemeral, competitive and cut throat. There are no rules of who can paint over what. It is up to each writer to decide if they want to take a wall or not and that's the nature of the beast. Chaos is a part of street part, for your own sanity and temper, it is better to embrace it.
"Chaos is a part of street art"
What rules according to chaos is no rule at all, and within this chaos, I found more rules than anywhere else. If chaos is the game why even bother -- and what I wonder is if you are not exactly stating what I suggest , that Graffiti turn it's back to audience...
What vorry me more, is if Graffiti is turning it's back to itself to those who contribuate ; "There are no rules of who can paint over what."
Now wouldn't everything in this world, be much easier , if there was rules and not chaos , no rules as the only rule, and still a lot of what you can ,what you can think and do, how and what you are supposed to think and do , and all with no responsability -- towerds conventions that is allright for me, but the responsability to the street , the people in the street , those who has the street outside their windows and who has the street as their local arear , are they among who Graffiti care nothing about that case, I finaly found a real difference from Graffiti to Street Art. -- I thought it was about reclaiming your street,
Beside in this world without rules , it seem to me that there are nothing but rules.
But allow me to image the two pieces next to mine , first the one to the right of mine , personaly I find it nice allmost to nice, a bit academic maybe, they was 3 who painted each their piece, I can't tell one from the other sorry ;
To my left there are this, I like that better ;
Now I took a few more picturesof the newest pieces but I will not put them all here.
Now these are the average pieces here, anyone who has an expert oppinion are welcome to comment, I would be happy.
I put a few more in, so this is about it, -- what "quality" this fence carry and an average of the pieces, the last two tell what I say -- out of 14 Graffiti pieces , there are one maybe two street Art pieces, so why is everyone picking on just that when "everything" is allowed in Graffiti ?
I don't buy the 8x3 meter argument. Just 'cause something is big doesn't make it more powerful. At least not in art.
I always thought it was harder to make a good small work than good large work.
ok.....Per Corell....calm down. Of course there can be some graphic unity to a wal. I never said that there wasn't. What I was saying that there is no set of rules to who can paint over anyone else's piece.
I think there may be a language barrier here. Differentiating between Street Art and graffiti shows that you do not know what you're talking about. If you do not see that there are three writers on the first wall (or one person using 3 pen names), then you need to do some research before you start making sweeping statements.
Graffiti is an artform (sub genre of Street Art) that is constantly changing, experimenting and exploring. If you do not like a piece, that doesn't mean that you can decide if it is art or not. The chaos involved in it is completely integral to appreciating it. If you like something that is permanent and more meaningful to those that pass by (as if it was designed for them), then you need to stick to comissioned murals my friend. There are a million examples of murals comissioned by a community. But, to understand graffiti, you have to understand that the people passing by do not want graffiti artists to put their pieces up. People don't want to see it from their windows. So to ask a graffiti artist to take into consideration the people passing by (the next day after the aerosol has dried) shows that you do not completely understand what graffiti is.
That is opposite here -- the alternative would be gray walls and windows, this is an argument I used often in my strange situation, where people passing who stop to tell they like my aproach better "then that graffiti" -- those I can ask if gray walls would be better than colors , a question that often open peoples eyes for part of it. And fact is, that most who has these graffiti just outside their windows realy like Graffiti better -- they ar forced to an oppinion and suddenly one day, there are a piece that will later rmind them of a good day, so I am sure Graffiti are more apriciated than you think, -- atleast when a legal fence work, and the amount of lose tags are minimised on the houses opposite.
Also The first image -- the one with 3 allmost identical writings, for the street it act more as Decor than Graffiti. When I say it is allmost to good amd a bit academic, what I mean is that the preparations must be more important than the instant creativity -- something we sometimes see, when some guy without any aids is able to fabricate a piece just like that, and ontop another one still holding a picture in his mind, and even without ground paint. it's true there are some realy skilled painters , strangly they often work alone.
But that is still where it leave me -- I realised what a privileage it is to have one side of the street as a legal fence, how different this make this street , and please remember this is not just any street but that is another story, -- it was people in this street who finaly some 36 yueas ago had enough of seeing a huge military area standing emty , for years, people who had the nerve to tear down openings in that fence, so the Freestate Christiania could start , this is also the power in the people here , something I intend to remind them one day I am finished portraiting just ordanary people living here,
But first we has to tell these Graffiti painters that on one hand we love their colors, but if they turn their back to us, they turn their back to something they could profit from.
The quality such a legal fence offer in this street is priceless, still the fence even it is the oldest legal fence in copenhagen, is allmost falling down. --- only in the winter when tree four pieces fallen into Cristiania, or out into the street uncovering backyards in a mess. In other parts of the town Graffiti are boxed within new fenced old parking lots ,and at far ends of abandoned industry , new "legal fences" are offered belived to remove the Graffiti from house walls , -- then that don't remove the Tags, and the same anger continue --- Now I seen what a plus such a wall can be, how beloved some pieces has been and some people allmost cried, when a piece been left there for years for it qualities are painted over, -- how people who that way has been enrolled start wait for a new good piece, and become has a meaning about it, not just turn their back to it , but start apriciate the colors --- and that even it will newer be more than just colors, but it is colors instead of gray walls.
"I don't buy the 8x3 meter argument. Just 'cause something is big doesn't make it more powerful. At least not in art.
I always thought it was harder to make a good small work than good large work."
Exactly -- I find it most difficult to find the right nozzle to make a fine line, it's like either you emty the can painting over huge area like with the Silver Burner, or the paint spot is impossible to maneage with just a little wind , this place allway's are a bit windy and then it is easier to paint Graffiti, as you can go closer and draw clear lines, bur toning out is allmost impossible ---- Then painting BIG help, as the details become easier to muster.
But as you see above, the fence also decide a lot --- I would rather see tree smaller pieces than one HUGE one ,beside the attitude of that huge one made it untouched for halve a year now ; it's like people who come here not sp often, has some respect for pieces like that, where smaller pieces more often are painted over by huge ones, --- something I am sure is bound in the wish of having atleast a month display for your piece, before someone else take over.
Before I had a bigger area ;
Many of those images was left there for a year or more -- but only becaurse I all the time changed the expression, placed other expressions instead of one, so it still was the same image, but it changed over time, -- that worked fine and had a great audience, they are the ones who try force me to expand again.
And it would be good to continue the story, still the problem is, that when there are rules, and there are no rules, then someone who is just jeloux over what he think in his mind, can allway's find "exchouses" exchouses that even can be used to spark a piece war, a war against what is different, and what is different can not complain, as "these are the rules". -- So I don't know if it's worth it, instead of exposing something I find beautifull, it so aasy by just one charecter, can turn into a war. And I am not here to fight but to paint.
In fact I was doing quite well on the track for a more 3D aproach, when suddenly my Street Art wasn't political correct, and some guy collected a crowd to paint over what been develobing in harmony with the surroundings for years, --- I to like to refine one piece, and the small secrets unifying the yellow natrium Street Light with momocrome pigment realy started to unfold at that point, -- but then some crazy crowd make it a political statement to paint over, and they care nothing about , what they paint over . -- Suddenly art become a war against other painters, and if you don't like someone, then the rules allow you to paint over -- if you collect a crowd to help you , the guy can't do much about it right.
But this I guess is the top of what I maneaged in terms of adding 3D, it worked, so said my audience , but it is not there anymore, and I wonder, if with these "rules" , if what will happen when I again reach that point, would not be exactly the same as last time.
See you maybe think I paint Murals -- I didn't know what that was two month's ago.
Per-Corell.....are you on crack? What the hell was that about?.............
"I to like to refine one piece, and the small secrets unifying the yellow natrium Street Light with momocrome pigment realy started to unfold at that point, -- but then some crazy crowd make it a political statement to paint over, and they care nothing about , what they paint over . -- Suddenly art become a war against other painters, and if you don't like someone, then the rules allow you to paint over -- if you collect a crowd to help you , the guy can't do much about it right."
I find it much more interesting to talk about real issues -- things you painted, why you think this piece you sprayed is better, and why you find it allright when it is painted over.
Things like " I painted this and after a week I expected it to be painted over" , that would be nice, to know what you been painting so to know your style, see I don't count the hours I spend spray painting ,but painting is something different than ideology ,and true I has my view from the actual pieces some of I showed here, so it would be nice to see images as arguments, in particular as Street Art and Graffiti are made by it's partisionars. Images please.
The reson I ask for images is that Graffiti don't has to stop there, Graffiti for me is a way to get an image dispalayed with a speciel effect, I can then take a foto and work on from that , make a close-up in charcoal on canvas and then project a patterrn and a color onto that, before I take a new foto for the next step ;
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/4272/billeder4002atg7.jpg
But please --- when you state a rule, there are nothing better than to place an image , I place images that has been painted over and has an oppinion based on that experience, and any Graffiti painter take images, so please put in pictures so I am not alone doing that, othervise anyone even some who don't in fact make Graffiti, can have a say about this important issue.
For me it has been important to develob methods so a 3 by 4 image can be painted in 20 to 30 minuts, but there are more to this kind of Street Art than just being able to place a strong image as fast as possible.
My debate with other Graffiti painters has been in the street, there I only had huge interest in these images, in the street I spoken to so many other painters painting so different pieces, and heard the same complains as I put down here -- they all hate that rule, and they all agrea that before you paint over you look, look and ask yourself if what you want to display, is better.
That shuld be a small and sense rule , to ask yourself if you could paint that, and if you can't, then find a better place with a piece that is maybe in a not so exposed place but a piece that could be painted over -- isn't it strange, that such suggestions is what everyone painting, I met agrea as would be a nice extra rule. Becaurse everyone I met who do paint, all know pieces that newer shuld be painted over.
Just look at paintings and you can have some examples of canvases. I have a blackbook full of images, but I don't have them in a place that you can see them.
It is exactly pieces like that I would like to see more of - many Graffiti painters stay with letters as they find Street Art more difficult in terms of painting skills, -- Letters are easyer still I find them more difficult and often when I talk with Graffiti painters I realise that what I find easy, they find difficult.
Now in this particular area where I live, there shuld be a reson for an explotion in Street Art ; all the ingridiense are there ; local problems with traffic -- Christiania who's fence I am using, fighting it's right for it's 37 year to decide for itself, where just today years of discussions enden , pointing to a violent "solution" , our local community being in support for our naibour community , but no real voices shouting that out clear.
And if it wasn't for this wet weather and my lack of finances to buy a load of spray cans, I would be out there ,erasing an old Graffiti piece that is way to long for the site and has been left there way to long, with no real messeage concerning our local problems ,I would be out there to paint a support statement even a political statement about our local problems and the silli way the goverment thin they can solve them.
To sad I been to much into picturing the local people just to open their eyes , I wished I had the cans. See with the states wish to take over the freestate Christiania these silli 36 years after it started, these are images we possible could see here :
And it is images about what it could have been, that is needed.
gotta get his right.
[amiah]http://www.roninart-chitecture.com/amiah.jpg[amiah]
damnit!
[img]http;//www.roninart-chitecture.com/portfolio/paintings/merge.jpg[img]
Yes it can be difficult to add images , and what is even more a problem, -- when finaly the code are right, one find out that this site work best with small 240x320 pixel images where most other fora's alike, work with 420 x 640 images.
But allow me to update in hope the tread continue, Street Art is an issue worth having an oppinion about. And for me it worked for years just replacing the images within 2 or 3 weeks -- that build an audience .
Here a close-up of the latest added:
But as I think I said -- I want to change to imaging the local people, they are often more interesting than picturing Icons, people in that same street as where the murals are , here a sketch but it's easy to blow up that onto the fence, and then it realy become Street Art, when it picture the local people people living there.
hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
You will be surprised when I take apart the images of just people, and paint them 3 by 5 meters , maybe just their eyes or in the dark, guess you has your xpertations and they will be neglected but that is the reson this thing is here, to remind you that if you are looking for expressions then it is you that must open your eyes.
Never seen Ballon Graffiti before , -- Sorry I has only a single new image to share, -- these day's I replace the oldest with a new with some weeks apart, I found that the best way ,at the moment, to deliver new images and still have the older images left in peace.
Things don't allway's end up as projected, above the new picture as I hoped it to display , but here how it turned out ;
Now I said these images is not only painted here and now -- they are all carefully propared. To get the originaly image projected onto the fence in the right angle, th image has been thru 3D Max where the image is projected onto a 3D model of fence and street, exactly where supposed to be. after that a camera "take the picture", and that image from decided view point, is what project onto the fence. Then my methods take over and what is not possible just like that, produce the Mural.
Now that sound easy , but it is not. And I will find out what detail went wrong, -- proberly the fact, that I didn't have the light blue background color, to fine line the image after it was painted.
A few new images from my Street Galleri
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