How do you deal with a strained contractor/architect relationship?
I inherited a large residential project when it was partway through construction. Immediately it was clear to me that the drawing set the contractor was building from was flimsy. Fundamental items were missing (grading & drainage, for instance). Many of the details had to be redrawn because they simply didn't work structurally or functionally (entry canopies that didn't drain, stairs that wouldn't support themselves, etc, etc.)
As a result of these changes, the relationship with the contractor has become strained and aggressive. I'm just trying to fix what was missing from the set—but they see me as generating changes that are making work for them. Oddly, most of these changes they requested.
I've been extremely prompt with any changes, usually getting back to them in a day or so. But they still bitch, and even yell, in every one of our site meetings. Should I not correct obvious errors in the drawings and just let it be built, warts and all?
I don't understand how contractor/architect relationships are SUPPOSED to work enough to know where this one went wrong. Or how to fix it.
here's the problem:I inherited a large residential project when it was partway through construction.
all you can do is your best, farwest1. because of your situation, it's gonna be painful.
explain your reasons and try to get their buy-in before you draw the changes. they've got to understand structural and drainage issues and they should appreciate the you'll be saving both you AND them the liability issues if these things are not done right.
the biggest issue between contractors/architects is usually when it's a us/they situation where they think you're handing down orders rather than working with them as part of a team.
Exactly. Thank you, Steven. I'm trying to make it a "we're in this together" team. But the contractor's first response whenever a problem comes up is "who do we blame?" They literally say this.
What I'm trying to convey is that most problems on a jobsite are the result of many issues. It's almost never one person's fault.
"the biggest issue between contractors/architects is usually when it's a us/they situation where they think you're handing down orders rather than working with them as part of a team"
Yes and no - at this point the contractor has a significant monetary invesment in the project and has had to decide what and how to build it in order to keep the project on track. Your firms' faliure to supply proper drawings will result in A) delay charges by the contractor your firm will be responsible for or B) the contractor deciding what to do to keep the project on schedule/budget/task - often times ironicly to please the client.
Wheres your Boss? wheres the stamp? at his summer home enjoying his fancy shoes and glasses?
"As a result of these changes, the relationship with the contractor has become strained and aggressive. I'm just trying to fix what was missing from the set—but they see me as generating changes that are making work for them. Oddly, most of these changes they requested"
You need to sit down with them and the client and this to the client. A lot of contractors will gladly leave out all kinds of stuff if the client doesn't know. Make sure the client knows your his advocate and that your drawings mean something. Be prepared to tell the contractor that not following is breach of contract and that the client can withhold payment if they are not being followed. And then throw him a carrot.
Guys - they forgot to put it in the set. The architect left out details, drew stairs wrong and now wants to blame the contractor. Typical architec t response - one that has not gone unoticed by the service buying public.
would you rather he built it wrong? A funny thing about AIA documents - in court, errors in the specifications or contract documents can invalidate the whole contractor / architect relationship. Theres a reasonable expectation of accuracy by the contractor for the design profesioanl that has to be met and if its found it hasnt it invalidates all the neat clauses and "contractor responsible for this" bull shit.
My family is contractors and I know first hand the problems architects cause to clients. Thats why I will never be one of "those" architects.
take the contractors out for a drink/dinner (billable and tax deductable I'm sure)...smooth the relationship - even if it means griping out the previous set of drawings
I think your option here is A) get your weasely boss ( who seems to be hiding from the situation) to deal with or 2) Accept the fact your somewhat at the mercy of the contractor - who might actualy have good ideas if you listen. After all, they just build it.
i wasn't sure from farwest's first whether this project came to his office while under construction or came to his table from somewhere else in the office. my response was sort of based on the former, while evilplatypus is assuming the latter.
if it's the latter, i agree completely with ep. (a first, i think!)
your boss should be on hand to back you up, take responsibility for a shoddy set, and pay up if it comes to that. lay it on the line with the boss. you shouldn't have to take all the heat for someone else's crap work.
if you happen to be the boss - sorry, dude. you gotta check the drawings before you let it go out the door.
The problem is ya'll fucked up, and at this point the only thing you can do is admit your office boned it, but your gonna work your best to get the thing done properly, over time you will earn their trust back.
Few things piss off contractors more than bad architects, and vice versa.
Another person quit (because of the pressure of this job, though he might also have sensed the impending mess from the set he drew.) I was hired halfway through construction to replace him. I saw it as an interesting challenge, and a very interesting house, but of course I couldn't have known the holes that existed in the set.
Also, I see myself as a good architect. I'm prompt, complete, and a competent designer. So that adds to the burden of being stuck with incomplete drawings. The contractor is sympathetic to my situation, but I'm still the one they ream when something is wrong or missing.
The added dimension is that they apparently told my boss (well before I was hired) that the set was flimsy. Yet they still took the job.
Farwest -- sounds like you're riding on the passenger seat of the motorcycle... you need to change up the dynamic a bit... next site meeting, put the contractor up against a wall with your forearm jammed across his throat and shout "WHO SENT YOU, YOU SONOFABITCH???"...
Oh and BTW, your best option if you ever want to see this client again is for both you and the contractor to "put on a happy face" in front of them. I do not agree with makeArchitecture's idea of getting the client involved it will only show him your office is incompetent and piss the contractor off even more because now the client thinks he's hired a bunch of idiots.
Oh, well if you inherited this project from another firm than yes, by all means both you and the GC should blame them for everything wrong with the project.
However, this does not sound like the case and the situation is dangerous indeed.
Most - not all but certain respectable contractors are out there to do a good job, and do it right. their rep is on the line for not just qualitybut also bringing the job in on budget and time. So if these guys are well respected in your area really listen to them and check their suggestions for code, life safety compliance and then asthetics. If its really bad then suggest a change, but if you honestly feel it can be lived with - go with it. Its not giving up - its being smart and living to do another project with these people some day when you can get it right from the start.
This residential job is nearly done. But as we're approaching our completion deadline, the contractor is speeding up and getting sloppy. I arrived at the house yesterday to find them installing an air conditioning switchbox square on the most prominent front elevation of the house—like a huge wart on an otherwise nice nose. I had told them not to install it here, twice, and even marked the proper installation location.
I threw a fit, told them to move it, the contractor threw a fit, started saying "we'll never finish this house if you keep making changes." The problem is, this AC unit wasn't in the original drawings. It was owner requested late in the game.
Then they told me that a dimension had changed in the kitchen, and the appliance we ordered didn't fit. I took two hours to select a new one—the contractor threw a fit because I "took too long" and again was "making changes."
They then installed two prominent door thresholds in a completely different, ugly wood from both the flooring and the door jambs (red oak, which I hate.) Three different woods coming together—looks weird. I told them to remove it and make the thresholds out of the flooring wood. They threw a fit.
Our office then received an email from the owner of the contracting company, blaming me specifically for "making changes at the last minute." But the last change I made—not initiated by either the owner, or at the contractor's request because of a site condition—was over six months ago, during framing. Every change since then has been owner's request, or because of a weird site condition.
What's going on here? Is this typical? How do I deal with it? The only other contractor I've dealt with was super-diligent and worked with us, rather than against us.
These last examples sound more like the contractor was hoping you wouldn't notice and would let them pass. None of these issues sound unreasonable, but I'm guessing the contractor thinks the bigger fit he throws the more likely you will back down.
Stand your ground *without* throwing a fit yourself. Let the contractor blow off steam while you stay cool.
The good contractors know when they need to ask a question that isn't clear, like the case with the thresholds. If the wood type wasn't specified, he can't just make a decision on his own, he has to ask for clarification. Seems like now you're getting into finishes those kinds of questions will come up more and more often, so you may want to head some of them off by sending out a list of what you expect: switch plate color, door stopper type, bathroom accessories etc. or they'll just pick whatever is cheapest at Lowe's then complain that *you're* making a change when you reject it.
farwest1: in your description above, I didn't see much about what role the owner's taking on this project - other than maybe adding stuff to the scope of work.
seems to me you (or your firm) need to have a discussion with the owner about what's taking place in the field and determine whether the owner really wants you to go to bat for him, or not.
if the owner's not going to back you up on these matters, then you're going to have a very difficult time dealing with the contractor.
The owner has two competing interests: 1. he's very detail oriented, so he does want everything to be exactly right. He'll pay for changes, even really big changes, to get it right. He backs us up when we insist that the contractor install correctly. But....
2. He also has forced a deadline on the contractor that he move in in three weeks.
It's just not possible to finish this job in three weeks without getting truly sloppy. We'll speak to the owner today about these competing interests.
"With any project, there are three areas that really matter: the available budget, the available time, and the desired quality. Anyone who tells you that they can deliver high-quality, at low cost, in a short timeframe, with all the bells & whistles... is lying! (or at the very least, their idea of quality is probably different to yours). The fact is, you only ever get to control two of those three things at any one time. It's a fundamental, universal law."
Once again, the validity of this old axiom is proven in the real world.
remember that you're learning priceless lessons about construction administration right now that (hopefully) will inform the way you design, document & build for the rest of your life. you'll get through it.
re quizzical: "With any project, there are three areas that really matter: the available budget, the available time, and the desired quality. Anyone who tells you that they can deliver high-quality, at low cost, in a short timeframe, with all the bells & whistles... is lying! (or at the very least, their idea of quality is probably different to yours). The fact is, you only ever get to control two of those three things at any one time. It's a fundamental, universal law."
great post. I wish more people understood this.
farwest - hang in there... it may be frustrating now, but you'll know how to deal with this kind of crap (or prevent it from happening) in the future. this is very valuable experience to get early on in your career.
farwest1: it was the owner's decision to force a short deadline -- he probably sacrificed quality by doing so -- perhaps he didn't understand the implications of his decision, but I'm assuming now the only way he can retain the quality he seeks is to relax the schedule.
It is often difficult to get people to understand the relationship of those three aspects of a project and how they affect each other.
My current boss likes to modify that axiom with his clients except he changes the punch line.
"there are three things... you will get one - high quality work. It will cost a lot and take longer than expected, but you will be happy with what you get."
I remind him every day that he is a lucky SOB to get clients who are willing to be patrons of our craft and that it isn't normally like this.
i've been at this a while now, but i was given a reminder about an extension of that fundamental law this week, in a particularly painful way:
if the project is behind schedule and the contractor offers the owner money back for not having to fix something major that the contractor screwed up, the owner will decide fixing it (i.e., quality) is less important, no matter how the architect protests.
"Oh, I can get a credit for less [positive adjective][plural noun]? Great!"
Oh, I can get a credit for less [alive][flowers]? Great!
Oh, I can get a credit for less [efficient][appliances]? Great!
Oh, I can get a credit for less [attractive][light fixtures]? Great!
BUT, I think it's better for an owner to get a credit for something that's screwed up than be forced to accept it reluctantly.
example: construction set includes very specific dimensioned drawings providing locations for control joints, protruding brick detail, and positions of exterior decorative lighting. control joints and brick detail get installed right but lighting is installed randomly with no relation to either of the other two. on the street-facing front of the building. architect calls contractor's attention to the problem in late may, relatively early in the construction process. contractor doesn't want to deal with it, and - instead of fixing it as directed by architect - in october offers the client $4000+/- to decide it doesn't matter all that much.
quizzical, great point. if it's a high end project you have to strive for quality and that will most likely drive the budget up but you can deliver within the timeframe if you plan ahead (no news there) but as soon as things start changing, like most projects, the schedule slips.
I was recently in a similiar situation. fortunately, the contractor was onboard with our vision for the project and was willing to go that extra step to work with us and make it right. Part of their willingness could be because we were hired by the client, not them. Is there a way to convince the contractor to take some pride in his work the same way you are?
Oct 19, 08 11:40 pm ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
Contractor Frustrations
How do you deal with a strained contractor/architect relationship?
I inherited a large residential project when it was partway through construction. Immediately it was clear to me that the drawing set the contractor was building from was flimsy. Fundamental items were missing (grading & drainage, for instance). Many of the details had to be redrawn because they simply didn't work structurally or functionally (entry canopies that didn't drain, stairs that wouldn't support themselves, etc, etc.)
As a result of these changes, the relationship with the contractor has become strained and aggressive. I'm just trying to fix what was missing from the set—but they see me as generating changes that are making work for them. Oddly, most of these changes they requested.
I've been extremely prompt with any changes, usually getting back to them in a day or so. But they still bitch, and even yell, in every one of our site meetings. Should I not correct obvious errors in the drawings and just let it be built, warts and all?
I don't understand how contractor/architect relationships are SUPPOSED to work enough to know where this one went wrong. Or how to fix it.
Advice?
here's the problem:I inherited a large residential project when it was partway through construction.
all you can do is your best, farwest1. because of your situation, it's gonna be painful.
explain your reasons and try to get their buy-in before you draw the changes. they've got to understand structural and drainage issues and they should appreciate the you'll be saving both you AND them the liability issues if these things are not done right.
the biggest issue between contractors/architects is usually when it's a us/they situation where they think you're handing down orders rather than working with them as part of a team.
Exactly. Thank you, Steven. I'm trying to make it a "we're in this together" team. But the contractor's first response whenever a problem comes up is "who do we blame?" They literally say this.
What I'm trying to convey is that most problems on a jobsite are the result of many issues. It's almost never one person's fault.
"the biggest issue between contractors/architects is usually when it's a us/they situation where they think you're handing down orders rather than working with them as part of a team"
Yes and no - at this point the contractor has a significant monetary invesment in the project and has had to decide what and how to build it in order to keep the project on track. Your firms' faliure to supply proper drawings will result in A) delay charges by the contractor your firm will be responsible for or B) the contractor deciding what to do to keep the project on schedule/budget/task - often times ironicly to please the client.
Wheres your Boss? wheres the stamp? at his summer home enjoying his fancy shoes and glasses?
"As a result of these changes, the relationship with the contractor has become strained and aggressive. I'm just trying to fix what was missing from the set—but they see me as generating changes that are making work for them. Oddly, most of these changes they requested"
You need to sit down with them and the client and this to the client. A lot of contractors will gladly leave out all kinds of stuff if the client doesn't know. Make sure the client knows your his advocate and that your drawings mean something. Be prepared to tell the contractor that not following is breach of contract and that the client can withhold payment if they are not being followed. And then throw him a carrot.
Guys - they forgot to put it in the set. The architect left out details, drew stairs wrong and now wants to blame the contractor. Typical architec t response - one that has not gone unoticed by the service buying public.
would you rather he built it wrong? A funny thing about AIA documents - in court, errors in the specifications or contract documents can invalidate the whole contractor / architect relationship. Theres a reasonable expectation of accuracy by the contractor for the design profesioanl that has to be met and if its found it hasnt it invalidates all the neat clauses and "contractor responsible for this" bull shit.
My family is contractors and I know first hand the problems architects cause to clients. Thats why I will never be one of "those" architects.
take the contractors out for a drink/dinner (billable and tax deductable I'm sure)...smooth the relationship - even if it means griping out the previous set of drawings
ya thats smart - a person with hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line will be "smoothed out" by a $10 drink
I think your option here is A) get your weasely boss ( who seems to be hiding from the situation) to deal with or 2) Accept the fact your somewhat at the mercy of the contractor - who might actualy have good ideas if you listen. After all, they just build it.
i wasn't sure from farwest's first whether this project came to his office while under construction or came to his table from somewhere else in the office. my response was sort of based on the former, while evilplatypus is assuming the latter.
if it's the latter, i agree completely with ep. (a first, i think!)
your boss should be on hand to back you up, take responsibility for a shoddy set, and pay up if it comes to that. lay it on the line with the boss. you shouldn't have to take all the heat for someone else's crap work.
if you happen to be the boss - sorry, dude. you gotta check the drawings before you let it go out the door.
I assumed he inherited it from someone within the office who was no longer "involved"
The problem is ya'll fucked up, and at this point the only thing you can do is admit your office boned it, but your gonna work your best to get the thing done properly, over time you will earn their trust back.
Few things piss off contractors more than bad architects, and vice versa.
Another person quit (because of the pressure of this job, though he might also have sensed the impending mess from the set he drew.) I was hired halfway through construction to replace him. I saw it as an interesting challenge, and a very interesting house, but of course I couldn't have known the holes that existed in the set.
I read it as being inherited from a different office.
Also, I see myself as a good architect. I'm prompt, complete, and a competent designer. So that adds to the burden of being stuck with incomplete drawings. The contractor is sympathetic to my situation, but I'm still the one they ream when something is wrong or missing.
The added dimension is that they apparently told my boss (well before I was hired) that the set was flimsy. Yet they still took the job.
EP is right
yep.
brace yourself and don't absorb the criticism (at least not the criticism you haven't earned) 'cause it'll make your hair fall out.
Farwest -- sounds like you're riding on the passenger seat of the motorcycle... you need to change up the dynamic a bit... next site meeting, put the contractor up against a wall with your forearm jammed across his throat and shout "WHO SENT YOU, YOU SONOFABITCH???"...
how big is youre E&O policy?
is the contractor charging extra $ for the work beyond the 'original' set?
Oh and BTW, your best option if you ever want to see this client again is for both you and the contractor to "put on a happy face" in front of them. I do not agree with makeArchitecture's idea of getting the client involved it will only show him your office is incompetent and piss the contractor off even more because now the client thinks he's hired a bunch of idiots.
Apurimac,
I originally thought that the other Architect was fired. I didn't realize that it was the same firm.
This situation is dangerous because the contractor can fuck it up and then blame the Architect.
Oh, well if you inherited this project from another firm than yes, by all means both you and the GC should blame them for everything wrong with the project.
However, this does not sound like the case and the situation is dangerous indeed.
Most - not all but certain respectable contractors are out there to do a good job, and do it right. their rep is on the line for not just qualitybut also bringing the job in on budget and time. So if these guys are well respected in your area really listen to them and check their suggestions for code, life safety compliance and then asthetics. If its really bad then suggest a change, but if you honestly feel it can be lived with - go with it. Its not giving up - its being smart and living to do another project with these people some day when you can get it right from the start.
Update:
This residential job is nearly done. But as we're approaching our completion deadline, the contractor is speeding up and getting sloppy. I arrived at the house yesterday to find them installing an air conditioning switchbox square on the most prominent front elevation of the house—like a huge wart on an otherwise nice nose. I had told them not to install it here, twice, and even marked the proper installation location.
I threw a fit, told them to move it, the contractor threw a fit, started saying "we'll never finish this house if you keep making changes." The problem is, this AC unit wasn't in the original drawings. It was owner requested late in the game.
Then they told me that a dimension had changed in the kitchen, and the appliance we ordered didn't fit. I took two hours to select a new one—the contractor threw a fit because I "took too long" and again was "making changes."
They then installed two prominent door thresholds in a completely different, ugly wood from both the flooring and the door jambs (red oak, which I hate.) Three different woods coming together—looks weird. I told them to remove it and make the thresholds out of the flooring wood. They threw a fit.
Our office then received an email from the owner of the contracting company, blaming me specifically for "making changes at the last minute." But the last change I made—not initiated by either the owner, or at the contractor's request because of a site condition—was over six months ago, during framing. Every change since then has been owner's request, or because of a weird site condition.
What's going on here? Is this typical? How do I deal with it? The only other contractor I've dealt with was super-diligent and worked with us, rather than against us.
sounds like the owner doesnt want to talk to you when they add stuff/etc.....
if these are changes then who's going to pay for them?.....is the owner paying the contractor directly or what?...
These last examples sound more like the contractor was hoping you wouldn't notice and would let them pass. None of these issues sound unreasonable, but I'm guessing the contractor thinks the bigger fit he throws the more likely you will back down.
Stand your ground *without* throwing a fit yourself. Let the contractor blow off steam while you stay cool.
The good contractors know when they need to ask a question that isn't clear, like the case with the thresholds. If the wood type wasn't specified, he can't just make a decision on his own, he has to ask for clarification. Seems like now you're getting into finishes those kinds of questions will come up more and more often, so you may want to head some of them off by sending out a list of what you expect: switch plate color, door stopper type, bathroom accessories etc. or they'll just pick whatever is cheapest at Lowe's then complain that *you're* making a change when you reject it.
farwest1: in your description above, I didn't see much about what role the owner's taking on this project - other than maybe adding stuff to the scope of work.
seems to me you (or your firm) need to have a discussion with the owner about what's taking place in the field and determine whether the owner really wants you to go to bat for him, or not.
if the owner's not going to back you up on these matters, then you're going to have a very difficult time dealing with the contractor.
Thanks.
The owner has two competing interests: 1. he's very detail oriented, so he does want everything to be exactly right. He'll pay for changes, even really big changes, to get it right. He backs us up when we insist that the contractor install correctly. But....
2. He also has forced a deadline on the contractor that he move in in three weeks.
It's just not possible to finish this job in three weeks without getting truly sloppy. We'll speak to the owner today about these competing interests.
Once again, the validity of this old axiom is proven in the real world.
Good luck...
remember that you're learning priceless lessons about construction administration right now that (hopefully) will inform the way you design, document & build for the rest of your life. you'll get through it.
re quizzical: "With any project, there are three areas that really matter: the available budget, the available time, and the desired quality. Anyone who tells you that they can deliver high-quality, at low cost, in a short timeframe, with all the bells & whistles... is lying! (or at the very least, their idea of quality is probably different to yours). The fact is, you only ever get to control two of those three things at any one time. It's a fundamental, universal law."
great post. I wish more people understood this.
farwest - hang in there... it may be frustrating now, but you'll know how to deal with this kind of crap (or prevent it from happening) in the future. this is very valuable experience to get early on in your career.
I'm even wondering if it's possible to deliver high quality in a short timeframe, even if you throw tons of money at it.
Quality takes time, period. Often, but not always, it takes a lot of money too.
farwest1: it was the owner's decision to force a short deadline -- he probably sacrificed quality by doing so -- perhaps he didn't understand the implications of his decision, but I'm assuming now the only way he can retain the quality he seeks is to relax the schedule.
It is often difficult to get people to understand the relationship of those three aspects of a project and how they affect each other.
My current boss likes to modify that axiom with his clients except he changes the punch line.
"there are three things... you will get one - high quality work. It will cost a lot and take longer than expected, but you will be happy with what you get."
I remind him every day that he is a lucky SOB to get clients who are willing to be patrons of our craft and that it isn't normally like this.
where are you located? this sounds way too familiar
I'm on the west coast. I think these kinds of situations are pretty common in architecture all over the US though.
i've been at this a while now, but i was given a reminder about an extension of that fundamental law this week, in a particularly painful way:
if the project is behind schedule and the contractor offers the owner money back for not having to fix something major that the contractor screwed up, the owner will decide fixing it (i.e., quality) is less important, no matter how the architect protests.
So true, Steven.
It's like Mad Libs:
"Oh, I can get a credit for less [positive adjective] [plural noun]? Great!"
Oh, I can get a credit for less [alive] [flowers]? Great!
Oh, I can get a credit for less [efficient] [appliances]? Great!
Oh, I can get a credit for less [attractive] [light fixtures]? Great!
BUT, I think it's better for an owner to get a credit for something that's screwed up than be forced to accept it reluctantly.
example: construction set includes very specific dimensioned drawings providing locations for control joints, protruding brick detail, and positions of exterior decorative lighting. control joints and brick detail get installed right but lighting is installed randomly with no relation to either of the other two. on the street-facing front of the building. architect calls contractor's attention to the problem in late may, relatively early in the construction process. contractor doesn't want to deal with it, and - instead of fixing it as directed by architect - in october offers the client $4000+/- to decide it doesn't matter all that much.
quizzical, great point. if it's a high end project you have to strive for quality and that will most likely drive the budget up but you can deliver within the timeframe if you plan ahead (no news there) but as soon as things start changing, like most projects, the schedule slips.
I was recently in a similiar situation. fortunately, the contractor was onboard with our vision for the project and was willing to go that extra step to work with us and make it right. Part of their willingness could be because we were hired by the client, not them. Is there a way to convince the contractor to take some pride in his work the same way you are?
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.