I am interested in setting up an advocacy/development service to help groups of people be their own developers. The idea is that groups of people can come together to take advantage of economies of scale that most successful real estate development requires. Like Habitat , but for urban dwellers. Many govt. sponsored housing projects are simply out of touch with the market, and requires prohibitively expensive administrative oversight to be effective. Can anyone recommend a good lawyer ? and advice on sources of funding; grants etc..
Thanks citizen, unfortunately housing non profits are the model of what i do not want...they are generally reliant on government and tax payer's money and there is so much nepotism and inefficiencies that will make third world governments look efficient..
But this is an interesting idea. Folks have done this (and some friendships bitterly ended, too) for years via private channels, of course.
You don't want to follow the model of a housing non-profit, which I can see. But you don't envision this as a for-profit business?
Let me try and understand: you want this undertaking to be a non-profit organization, but not to operate with all the pitfalls of your standard NPO. Rather, you want your NPO to operate more efficiently using business methods, and attracting private capital?
Actually, I would argue the initial point...many gov't agencies are remarkably tunes to the market and are stunningly effective oganisms for making some people money
Coop Housing...Check out Massachusetts as there are some good examples of projects in that area. I'm trying to think of the guy who
was behind these projects. I want to say Coburn, but I can't be positive. Bruce Coburn.....think it was his name....give it a whirl. He has been involved in the process for a long time and as I recall was
very good at the total process.
puddles, yes, the most unfortunate fact of government programs is their "preferred vendors" aspect.. but yes, i want this thing to be self sustaining and be somewhat profitable, but it should not be a profit maximizing enterprise---(at least not for the organization itself)
mdler, its not a mutual fund. I envision 6 families getting together. one family owns a plot of land, the other 5 has enough capital combined to buy the empty lot next door and develop a 3 story 12 unit co-op. together. everyone makes some money and if enough people get together to do this there wold be greater diversity in the kinds of housing you get in the marketplace...and from a macro perspective less risk for banks....if anything goes wrong there are 6 people they can go after...
i made the mistake of working for a non-profit housing organization, so not wanting to be like the 'typical' is something i can deeply empathize with.
however
listening to what you've described doesn't sound like to me it's going to pass the 'smell test' the irs is going to conduct on your 501c-3 application (presuming that's the category you want). where or how are you distributing money that you take in? is it to pay you for your time? if that's primarily it, you're most likely not going to get non-profit status (especially in light of recent court rulings that seem to drop the hammer on groups - even churches and schools - on their collection and spending habits).
the larger question for me is: why do you need to be a non-profit? this seems like a perfectly logical FOR profit kind of venture. you're the developer/designer. you get six families who want to buy in, you build it affordably and creatively and get a bigger cut. (is it a risk thing? that you'd rather not be on the hook, financially, yourself?) or you could just play matchmaker...
also, mdler is right (for once) - the lure of MAKING money is going to bring out the worst in most people unless this really is like a coop or some other joint investment venture. the management of 12 people alone on a residential project is somewhat dizzying....
laru, yes, for me its a risk thing...i would rather not be liable for other people's business operations. but yes, it is perhpas better as a FOR profit venture.
Small groups invest in real estate development all the time.
What's different here is that you envision all the parties being involved equally, rather than each kicking in some money and letting/hiring one person head-up the project as the appointed decision-maker.
I would talk to some small-scale residential developers, and get their take.
i'm also a bit confused how the organization of the nonprofit differs from a standard real estate development venture.
i had an idea recently to set up a for profit architecture research and design firm that caters to the nonprofit community. it essentially functions in three parts. the first identifies nonprofits that may be in need of master planning or program development and works with them to create a comprehensive growth plan. the second part works with the nonprofit and their available contacts and resources to assist in fundraising and grant writing. the third part is the truly for profit side of the firm; once, funding has been secured, the design side of the office kicks in for implementation.
one of my observations of nonprofits is that most are truly clueless when it comes to organizing a growth strategy, but without a larger comprehensive plan, they are unable to attain funding. a specialized research and design office steps in from the early planning stages and takes the financial hit before funding is attained, but once funding is attained, there is really a remarkable amount of money in the nonprofit world that could be an opportunity for architects (and also a way of contributing something more than your typical lifestyle center).
I would do some research on neighborhood development in parts of new olreans. it seems as though a lot of neighborhoods are sick of waiting for govt assistance and banding together to form block associations to develop neighborhoods themselves. It's obviously a different set of circumstances from what you might be considering, but have a look at a couple of these larger non-profits, some might have useful information on their structure and backing as well as links to smaller organizations:
I admit, the thread is confusing because of it being "non-profit".. or "not for profit". part of my motivation for being a not-for-profit is its abililty to access sources of funding not readily available to the private sector. Perhaps a better strategy would be for the firm itself to be FOR profit but would create non-profit entities for each development project. jafidler, i also thought about doing consulting work for non-profits, however, many would find it difficult to justify their expenditure on consulting,(especially if funding has yet to be acquired) you would basically have to work for free for no less than a year...also i would not be surprised that once funding has been attained, the non-profits decides to disengage the firm and go their own...often drifting away from their mission. in nyc, real estate development is often part of a non-profit's operation, and is rife with corruption and nepotism, because it is also the part of the operation that has least oversight.
start a coffee shop then have meetings there...... then you can use the coffee house as the section to filter your funds through.... then you can write off "random coffee shipments" and create a "gambling room" in the basement......
i don't know if you'd have to work for free, but, again, i'm trying to figure out why you need the baggage of a non/not-for profit structure. if your goal is to do affordable (or super affordable) housing, then maybe. but if you're doing market rate projects, then effectively you sound like you're running a co-op.
why do the couples buying in need to get a cut of the profits? can they just not buy the finished product or is it a mechanism you're using to try and get them more bang for their buck? seriously, i'm almost done with doing residential work for individual clients - i'm ready to put it up and let them come buy it. once it's up, they so much less likely to accept what they have rather than bitch about what they don't like. dealing with 12 people like that from the outset is going to be hell no matter how easygoing they may seem....
Starting a non-profit advocacy group
I am interested in setting up an advocacy/development service to help groups of people be their own developers. The idea is that groups of people can come together to take advantage of economies of scale that most successful real estate development requires. Like Habitat , but for urban dwellers. Many govt. sponsored housing projects are simply out of touch with the market, and requires prohibitively expensive administrative oversight to be effective. Can anyone recommend a good lawyer ? and advice on sources of funding; grants etc..
I'd suggest contacting housing non-profits in your city for recommendations. These are the folks who have already done what you're hoping to start up.
Thanks citizen, unfortunately housing non profits are the model of what i do not want...they are generally reliant on government and tax payer's money and there is so much nepotism and inefficiencies that will make third world governments look efficient..
I dont understand...you want to be a non-profit that essentially helps private individuals do their own private development to make themselves $$$?
YES !!
sort of like a real estate mutual fund?
I missed your point, then... sorry.
But this is an interesting idea. Folks have done this (and some friendships bitterly ended, too) for years via private channels, of course.
You don't want to follow the model of a housing non-profit, which I can see. But you don't envision this as a for-profit business?
Let me try and understand: you want this undertaking to be a non-profit organization, but not to operate with all the pitfalls of your standard NPO. Rather, you want your NPO to operate more efficiently using business methods, and attracting private capital?
Am I close?
sounds interesting ...
coops are successful following that model
successfully in the terms of offering the best value for their customers in healthy food and the best prices that is.
Not for Profit. not Non Profit
Actually, I would argue the initial point...many gov't agencies are remarkably tunes to the market and are stunningly effective oganisms for making some people money
shit...posting from blackberry is bad for spelling...sorry
Coop Housing...Check out Massachusetts as there are some good examples of projects in that area. I'm trying to think of the guy who
was behind these projects. I want to say Coburn, but I can't be positive. Bruce Coburn.....think it was his name....give it a whirl. He has been involved in the process for a long time and as I recall was
very good at the total process.
I googled him and this is what came up....not much help I'm afraid:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O7CL6mg5XXk&feature=related
puddles, yes, the most unfortunate fact of government programs is their "preferred vendors" aspect.. but yes, i want this thing to be self sustaining and be somewhat profitable, but it should not be a profit maximizing enterprise---(at least not for the organization itself)
mdler, its not a mutual fund. I envision 6 families getting together. one family owns a plot of land, the other 5 has enough capital combined to buy the empty lot next door and develop a 3 story 12 unit co-op. together. everyone makes some money and if enough people get together to do this there wold be greater diversity in the kinds of housing you get in the marketplace...and from a macro perspective less risk for banks....if anything goes wrong there are 6 people they can go after...
1st you will have to find 6 people willing to split the rewards more or less evenly. Once $$$ is involved, you see the worst in people
1st you will have to find 6 people willing to split the rewards more or less evenly. Once $$$ is involved, you see the worst in people
I promise i will find the Coop guy...
Until then: http://www.cvcha.org/images/CoopHousAprJun08_FINAL.pdf
non-profits dont pay...... and want everything for free.....
non-
i made the mistake of working for a non-profit housing organization, so not wanting to be like the 'typical' is something i can deeply empathize with.
however
listening to what you've described doesn't sound like to me it's going to pass the 'smell test' the irs is going to conduct on your 501c-3 application (presuming that's the category you want). where or how are you distributing money that you take in? is it to pay you for your time? if that's primarily it, you're most likely not going to get non-profit status (especially in light of recent court rulings that seem to drop the hammer on groups - even churches and schools - on their collection and spending habits).
the larger question for me is: why do you need to be a non-profit? this seems like a perfectly logical FOR profit kind of venture. you're the developer/designer. you get six families who want to buy in, you build it affordably and creatively and get a bigger cut. (is it a risk thing? that you'd rather not be on the hook, financially, yourself?) or you could just play matchmaker...
also, mdler is right (for once) - the lure of MAKING money is going to bring out the worst in most people unless this really is like a coop or some other joint investment venture. the management of 12 people alone on a residential project is somewhat dizzying....
and don't forget that would be the management of 12 people who all likely think they know how to design better than the architect...what a headache
laru, yes, for me its a risk thing...i would rather not be liable for other people's business operations. but yes, it is perhpas better as a FOR profit venture.
Small groups invest in real estate development all the time.
What's different here is that you envision all the parties being involved equally, rather than each kicking in some money and letting/hiring one person head-up the project as the appointed decision-maker.
I would talk to some small-scale residential developers, and get their take.
i'm also a bit confused how the organization of the nonprofit differs from a standard real estate development venture.
i had an idea recently to set up a for profit architecture research and design firm that caters to the nonprofit community. it essentially functions in three parts. the first identifies nonprofits that may be in need of master planning or program development and works with them to create a comprehensive growth plan. the second part works with the nonprofit and their available contacts and resources to assist in fundraising and grant writing. the third part is the truly for profit side of the firm; once, funding has been secured, the design side of the office kicks in for implementation.
one of my observations of nonprofits is that most are truly clueless when it comes to organizing a growth strategy, but without a larger comprehensive plan, they are unable to attain funding. a specialized research and design office steps in from the early planning stages and takes the financial hit before funding is attained, but once funding is attained, there is really a remarkable amount of money in the nonprofit world that could be an opportunity for architects (and also a way of contributing something more than your typical lifestyle center).
I would do some research on neighborhood development in parts of new olreans. it seems as though a lot of neighborhoods are sick of waiting for govt assistance and banding together to form block associations to develop neighborhoods themselves. It's obviously a different set of circumstances from what you might be considering, but have a look at a couple of these larger non-profits, some might have useful information on their structure and backing as well as links to smaller organizations:
neighborhood development foundation (NDF)
new orleans neighborhood development collaborative (NONDC)
new orleans redevelopment authority(NORA)
..etc
I admit, the thread is confusing because of it being "non-profit".. or "not for profit". part of my motivation for being a not-for-profit is its abililty to access sources of funding not readily available to the private sector. Perhaps a better strategy would be for the firm itself to be FOR profit but would create non-profit entities for each development project. jafidler, i also thought about doing consulting work for non-profits, however, many would find it difficult to justify their expenditure on consulting,(especially if funding has yet to be acquired) you would basically have to work for free for no less than a year...also i would not be surprised that once funding has been attained, the non-profits decides to disengage the firm and go their own...often drifting away from their mission. in nyc, real estate development is often part of a non-profit's operation, and is rife with corruption and nepotism, because it is also the part of the operation that has least oversight.
start a coffee shop then have meetings there...... then you can use the coffee house as the section to filter your funds through.... then you can write off "random coffee shipments" and create a "gambling room" in the basement......
non-
i don't know if you'd have to work for free, but, again, i'm trying to figure out why you need the baggage of a non/not-for profit structure. if your goal is to do affordable (or super affordable) housing, then maybe. but if you're doing market rate projects, then effectively you sound like you're running a co-op.
why do the couples buying in need to get a cut of the profits? can they just not buy the finished product or is it a mechanism you're using to try and get them more bang for their buck? seriously, i'm almost done with doing residential work for individual clients - i'm ready to put it up and let them come buy it. once it's up, they so much less likely to accept what they have rather than bitch about what they don't like. dealing with 12 people like that from the outset is going to be hell no matter how easygoing they may seem....
yup...doing residential sucks..... they nit-pick about everything and want changes but dont expect to pay.....then add shyt and dont wanna pay...
just build it and sell them off..... see if you can sell a few before hand to get some cash flow going.....
b
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