Does anyone know the type of concrete and finish used on a typical Tadao Ando concrete wall (interior and exterior)? Is the smooth finish achieved by simply using a fine mixture? sanding? What would I specify for the sealant/coating? any ideas would help. Thanks.
i read an article on the Pulitzer Museum in one of the concrete trade magazines a few years back. They went into detail on the concrete and how it was uniformly vibrated, the mix, etc.
Also, he uses coated panels for the formwork and I dont believe that they are reused. I believe that he basically builds a woodshop on site and treats the formwork like cabinetry...
Supposedly he has used the same concrete contractors for many of his projects, and he once punched one of the workers in the nose for dropping a cigarette into the concrete as it was being formed. The truth behind this is skeptical at best, but it's still a good story.
One of my favorite finishes for concrete is a board form, like what marcel breuer used in the staircase at the whitney in Manhattan. Some of the stuff he used must have been really rough timber because if you look close, you can still see some of the wood fibers embedded in the concrete. Another nice finish is to sand/media blast away the top layer of 'cream' revealing the aggregate embedded in the concrete beneath. This looks especially nice if you have control over what aggregate is going into the mix.
his concrete is low slump i think, which means he has to vibrate it carefully to prevent pockets of "junk" (i don't know what you call it in english), unless he is using some kind of admixture. the mix is i believe more or less standard otherwise. the formwork is painted and put together carefully, that is for certain, but it is not so odd or special in japan really.
for a house we did recently we had to tell the contractors to be a bit more sloppy with the work cuz it was going to come out ando-esque and we don't care for the look very much (which is to our eyes too bland in the end).
ando also uses a fixing crew who clean up the junk and fill in areas or cut and patch as required to make it all look perfect. these guys are specialists and artists of some ability. basically they are masters of mortar. we have used them a bit but cuz we like things a bit rough and like to see the creator's hands in teh final product we tend to not bring them in unless there are some serious problems.
as for final finish, he uses a transparent waterproofing coat that keeps the concrete looking clean. we use this as well. it makes an enormous difference to keeping it looking fresh. when i visited rokko housing about 15 years ago i was shocked at how BLACK it was- from all the dirt running down the walls - the coating/technology has caught up since then and his other buildings look just like new as a result.
the real wonder of ando however is his use of space. at that he is a genius. he really is.
we have set and poured several ando like walls on my current job. The finish is glassy smooth and doesn't require any fixing. We used coated plywood and scc with no vibration.
no vibration? your engineer let you do that? i guess we only use concrete when we are lucky enough to put a ton of rebar embedded, so vibration is pretty much a requirement.
I once tried an cheapo version of an ando, using sheet metal finished boxing (formwork) - the end product was awesome. But didn't last, not because of anything technical - but my client painted it over before the defects period expired. You should be able to sue clients for that...sigh
"as for final finish, he uses a transparent waterproofing coat that keeps the concrete looking clean."
Jump, any manufacturer name on that? Is is anything special, or an ordinary sealer?
architechnophilia -- sounds intriguing. How big a project?
Would both of you concrete geeks take a look and the Concrete "sandwich" Wall thread I posted? Any comments?
i actually don't now the name of manufacturer, kurt. we spec by material name and grade rather than maker and let the contractor pick. since contractor is liable for defects he has strong incentive to choose well. but as far as it goes, it is not a special maker or anything. just a carefully engineered clear urethane more or less.
to add to discussion above, i hear ando also makes his walls a bit thicker than normal. standard here is 150m to 200mm. he adds 50 mm or more. that may be apocryphal of course.
1wntr the instructions about how to post an image are below the response box in grey
...KURT... the project was fairly domestic in scale about 3500 sq ft but the area in question was an interior wall about 30 ft long, with an inverted taper to allow the rainwater to rapid fall and a chamfered based hidden from view to hide all water marks. As I said cheapo
check out www.vseal.com for the clear sealer. You can apparently also use this stuff below grade for waterproofing instead of that tarry black paint contractors like to use.
concrete finish
Does anyone know the type of concrete and finish used on a typical Tadao Ando concrete wall (interior and exterior)? Is the smooth finish achieved by simply using a fine mixture? sanding? What would I specify for the sealant/coating? any ideas would help. Thanks.
if you spec 'Ando concrete' your contractor will know what you are talking about....
... and charge you a minor surcharge.
i read an article on the Pulitzer Museum in one of the concrete trade magazines a few years back. They went into detail on the concrete and how it was uniformly vibrated, the mix, etc.
Also, he uses coated panels for the formwork and I dont believe that they are reused. I believe that he basically builds a woodshop on site and treats the formwork like cabinetry...
Supposedly he has used the same concrete contractors for many of his projects, and he once punched one of the workers in the nose for dropping a cigarette into the concrete as it was being formed. The truth behind this is skeptical at best, but it's still a good story.
One of my favorite finishes for concrete is a board form, like what marcel breuer used in the staircase at the whitney in Manhattan. Some of the stuff he used must have been really rough timber because if you look close, you can still see some of the wood fibers embedded in the concrete. Another nice finish is to sand/media blast away the top layer of 'cream' revealing the aggregate embedded in the concrete beneath. This looks especially nice if you have control over what aggregate is going into the mix.
For Vitra in Weim am Rhein they supposedly had a Japanese contractor do the concrete.
I dont think that they actually sand the concrete after its formed, do they?
mdler rocks the board-formed...
board formed is king here in seattle, mdler...
holz.box
maybe I will become the 'king of Seattle board formed'
if the form is smooth and you use a fine mix.... you dont need to really sand much
portland cement and sand...... then rebar/mesh/etc...
i used a palm sander and a jigsaw(without the blade) to vibrate my forms when i casted a few things....
i'm sure there is a secret mix hidden deep in the middle of okydoky bay
his concrete is low slump i think, which means he has to vibrate it carefully to prevent pockets of "junk" (i don't know what you call it in english), unless he is using some kind of admixture. the mix is i believe more or less standard otherwise. the formwork is painted and put together carefully, that is for certain, but it is not so odd or special in japan really.
for a house we did recently we had to tell the contractors to be a bit more sloppy with the work cuz it was going to come out ando-esque and we don't care for the look very much (which is to our eyes too bland in the end).
ando also uses a fixing crew who clean up the junk and fill in areas or cut and patch as required to make it all look perfect. these guys are specialists and artists of some ability. basically they are masters of mortar. we have used them a bit but cuz we like things a bit rough and like to see the creator's hands in teh final product we tend to not bring them in unless there are some serious problems.
as for final finish, he uses a transparent waterproofing coat that keeps the concrete looking clean. we use this as well. it makes an enormous difference to keeping it looking fresh. when i visited rokko housing about 15 years ago i was shocked at how BLACK it was- from all the dirt running down the walls - the coating/technology has caught up since then and his other buildings look just like new as a result.
the real wonder of ando however is his use of space. at that he is a genius. he really is.
we have set and poured several ando like walls on my current job. The finish is glassy smooth and doesn't require any fixing. We used coated plywood and scc with no vibration.
no vibration? your engineer let you do that? i guess we only use concrete when we are lucky enough to put a ton of rebar embedded, so vibration is pretty much a requirement.
That would have to be one crazy wet mix with tiny aggregate to not honeycomb or leave voids.
whoops, i didn't catch that it was self consolidating.
that's stuff's not cheap.
it's not wet, has high volume of HRWRs.
you get a really crazy slump
I once tried an cheapo version of an ando, using sheet metal finished boxing (formwork) - the end product was awesome. But didn't last, not because of anything technical - but my client painted it over before the defects period expired. You should be able to sue clients for that...sigh
"as for final finish, he uses a transparent waterproofing coat that keeps the concrete looking clean."
Jump, any manufacturer name on that? Is is anything special, or an ordinary sealer?
architechnophilia -- sounds intriguing. How big a project?
Would both of you concrete geeks take a look and the Concrete "sandwich" Wall thread I posted? Any comments?
peanut oil liberally.
i actually don't now the name of manufacturer, kurt. we spec by material name and grade rather than maker and let the contractor pick. since contractor is liable for defects he has strong incentive to choose well. but as far as it goes, it is not a special maker or anything. just a carefully engineered clear urethane more or less.
to add to discussion above, i hear ando also makes his walls a bit thicker than normal. standard here is 150m to 200mm. he adds 50 mm or more. that may be apocryphal of course.
amazing pic holz.
Thanks, jump -- and, yeah, this holz guy's photo-finding abilities are actually starting to freak me out a little.
We did another test today and got an amazing finish. Also, does anyone have any good ideas on patching a small honeycomb in an Ando style wall?
How in the heck do I post a picture?
1wntr the instructions about how to post an image are below the response box in grey
...KURT... the project was fairly domestic in scale about 3500 sq ft but the area in question was an interior wall about 30 ft long, with an inverted taper to allow the rainwater to rapid fall and a chamfered based hidden from view to hide all water marks. As I said cheapo
check out www.vseal.com for the clear sealer. You can apparently also use this stuff below grade for waterproofing instead of that tarry black paint contractors like to use.
^^ I think coverage is about 150-250 sq.ft. / gallon @ $28/gallon I believe.
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