I've just started studying, learning autocad is a requirement of my course, and i've got a macbook pro...
i know i have to do the bootcamp, install windows partition blah blah to use autocad, which ain't too much of a pain, but there lies my question.
Why Autocad? is there an alternative that i can use on Mac OS11 so i don't have to screw around switching between OS's all day?? ,(i know very little about any other CAD programs such as 3dMAX, NX, archicad etc. is there a CAD program out there any1 recommends starting on.. BESIDES AUTOCAD. any help is greatly appreciated!
yes that's right 'jump', autocad is a requirement of my course, and as i also mentioned i have just started studying, so i'm new to all of it. i am learning it, i'm just getting opinions on what else is out there besides autocad, as it is frustrating moving between OS when i could be using a more streamline, faster and mac freindly program. Also to find out how others have found autocad that have a mac. i didn't mean for the title to sound negative,i am just interested in what people have to say who have been studying and working in the field much longer than i have. - that was the point.
thankyou 'makeArchitecture" for the link and suggestions, i have dowloaded archicad and trying it out right now i also found google SketchUP which is extrmely simple to use - what's your take on it?
If there's any CAD software you should learn, AutoCad is it. Close second would be Revit, another Autodesk program. They are the closest thing to an industry standard. Almost all engineers use Autodesk and the majority of architects do. That's why your course requires it, and why a slight inconvenience today is worth it in the long run.
I know soon as I submit this 10 people are going to bark back talking about their offices running Mac's, etc. All I'm saying is that's still by far the exception, so take Jump's advise, it's not a bad software to know.
Microstation is a distant second to Autocad. I know all gov't work needs to be done in that...and is popular in some regions. But, love it or hate it, Autocad is still the king.
THANKYOU 'aquapura'!!! for giving a constructive comment. instead of having 20 vague comments, i fortunately have 1 informative one, and it's all ill probably need, with a few others to agree of course.
don't get me wrong, i like autocad. it's simple, and the command line allows much better accuracy in telling it how and what to do. was just putting the feelers out for something better.. but sounds like mayb not.
you might be very limited in any job searches if you dont know how to use autocad. as some have mentioned, it really is not the norm for an office to use something other than autocad.
my advice would be to learn autocad now, first to get the credit for your course, and second, its something that anyone starting out should have a good grasp on in general
you will need to have a very good reason that you dont know autocad and dont use it on a job interview. most places it will be a requirement for someone starting at the intern level out of school.
plus
its perfectly reasonable to do your work in another program, but you will sound more credible to a potential employer if you say, i can use autocad, but i prefer this program for reason A,B,&C
right now its one of those things that are essentially an industry standard for 99% of the offices out there. kind of like knowing how to use Microsoft Word
after university, the choice of drawing/drafting/design software is significantly (but not exclusively) about the need to easily exchange files among individuals and firms, and about the need for multiple individuals to work on the same file. this largely means every individual cannot use just any software they prefer because the variety of file formats and procedural considerations leads to chaos in organizations.
until the concept of "interoperability" becomes a true reality, there will tend to be a "dominant" software at every application level -- even if that software isn't necessarily the "best" (a highly arguable concept).
today, AutoCAD is the dominant software in the 2-D world, Revit is rapidly becoming the dominant software in the 3-D world. and, because we love it so much, Windows will remain the dominant operating system for the forseeable future.
I'm sorry you have to use autocad on a mac, there aren't much worse things you can do. But once you learn the basics they will stick with you for life.
Now as it relates to your mac, I'd suggest going for ArchiCAD, its free for students (the link is at the bottom of my blog) and once you learn it you'll find that the commands are similar to those on VectorWorks as well as Microstation (well at least when I last used them a while back). All those software have 3d capabilities and are fairly productive for a school environment.
Sorry that you thought that so many of the responses are vague. You will see as time progresses in your studies that software doesn't matter. Nonetheless it is good to know them. Hope all of this helps.
i'm with jasoncross here. Rhinoceros all the way, y do i need anything else? no autocad no 3dmax/maya no illustrator, no indesign. yes a little pixel pushing so i do use PSCS3 portable (44mb) but i am always on the lookout for alternatives that are comparable , getpaint.net and artweaver.de are 2 that are getting close.
what IS important is compatibility/interoperability. i find all the IntelliCAD's and Rhinoceros to offer just what i need to be able to work with all my consultants and they wouldn't know any different if i didn't tell them
but when it comes to BIM yes it may be a good idea to know Revit.
Sketchup while it may be fast it is polygon based unlike more superior models and if you get far in it you will fast realize its inadequacies and reach the ceiling in it.
as far as mac's they are just PC clones now , heck if you want you can even run OSX on most any box now too. i am not fan of any monopoly
does anyone not know autocad at all, and where do you work? i definitely agree that it should all be done with one program, but realistically, the way most firms are, you really limit yourself if you only go somewhere that uses Rhino.
unless you work for yourself, then you can do what you please
i just think for someone in school now, it is easy enough to learn AutoCAD to just have in your pocket at least, so when you graduate and start working, you dont get stuck having to learn it on the fly. you will look much worse if you say "i dont know autocad and never bothered to learn" than if you say "i personally use X program rather than autocad for these reasons, but if i need to i can use autocad"
then you can explain to your boss why you feel the other program is better, and if you make a good enough case, they will switch.
your job choices will be very limited if you demand to use only rhino or a particular program of choice
and why would an office change how they work because some intern just out of school says his way is better? at least if you know their way, you can show them how rhino or whatever is better and will make them more productive. otherwise they will want to know why its better. if you dont have an answer beyond your autocad is archaic and weak response, you will get nowhere
you cant honestly believe that many firms will let you use whatever program you want
the real world doesnt work that way
they dont hire you right out of school to come in and change the way they do their work. you have to have a reason
i second the Archicad comment, esp if you're using a Mac. everything you draw is three dimensional, forcing you to understand the implications of every design decision. in addition, it easily saves drawings as a dwg or a pdf.
Intellicad for native Linux too. another thing autodesk will not/ can not do
i mean did you know their CEO works for bush as a 'science' adviser?
marmkid
you are absolutely incorrect
i have proven the benefits and they do let me use what i want and it is the 3rd biggest firm in the world and i am no intern i am an experienced professional in the field for 11 years.
but you cant expect to be able to have your employer drop autocad based solely on that. they will look at it that they have to then either train their other employees to use ArchiCAD, or allow you to use ArchiCAD and just be responsible for the conversion and any coordination that comes with that.
not saying it wouldnt happen, but i know a lot of places wont let you use a pet program, because they have their own system set up for compatibility with all their employees.
the poster here asked why does he need to learn autocad, due to its problems and what seem to be better programs out there now.
my answer is that when in school, its best to learn a couple different programs, but one should definitely be autocad, since that is most likely what you will be using when you start working.
again
why would a company hire an intern out of school who doesnt use their software, and demands to use his own?
the answer is chances are they wont hire him
the argument to drop autocad is valid, but it is not a sure thing, otherwise everyone would be using ArchiCAD, and they arent.
right, from what i hear from my friends in other offices, people are moving closer and closer to fully depending on Revit. i think it's becoming apparent that it's ridiculous to draw the same thing in five different places. with archicad and revit, one single 'move' updates every drawing simultaneously.
that is definitely the way things are heading, wrecking ball
but you really should know autocad also
antisthenes
that is why your firm would listen to your opinion about the program. but the majority of firms dont care about the software opinion of someone they hire right out of school, that isnt what they are being hired for
if benoh doesnt learn autocad now while in school, he will graduate and try to find a job. what he will find is that most places will not let him pick and choose whatever he wants, and unless they are hiring him specifically to update their software, they will want him to use autocad
again
MOST PLACES
not everywhere of course (i never said everywhere)
your place obviously listened to your arguments and changed and adapted. did they do that on your first day there?
my point isnt to argue whether autocad is better than archicad. i have never used archicad and am make people think it sucks. i am only saying that to be realistic, you should know autocad, its simple to learn, then go ahead and use whatever else you want.
my point isnt to argue whether autocad is better than archicad. i have never used archicad and am NOT TRYING TO make people think it sucks. i am only saying that to be realistic, you should know autocad, its simple to learn, then go ahead and use whatever else you want.
i meant i had a typo and was fixing it with that 2nd post
it sounds like your route wasnt the same as the one benoh is on now. i was talking to him about the route he is currently taking. as discuessed many times before in other threads, there are many different ways for your career to go.
i have worked in 3 different firms in my short career and can only speak on them and my experience. they range from a very small 5 person firm, a decent size 20 person firm, and the one i work at now, which is roughly 400 people.
based on my experience, you put yourself at a disadvantage for no reason if you dont learn autocad, especially considering the little time it takes to get good at it and be much better with it than most of the people out there working with it today. i dont think you need to only work in that, but to not know it at all puts you behind for no reason.
i completely agree that you should voice your opinion at work and make it known there is something you feel works better and would make the firm more productive. if you know autocad, you will then be able to present whatever other program you prefer and can point out why it works better
it only makes your argument stronger
I didn't really know any CAD programs until I started work. I mean I used autocad for a few plans and sections during school and was pretty familiar with how to use it. But keep in mind that most firms could possibly use something different. As a matter of fact, we used microstation so I had to relearn everything.
yeah i was only refering to the basics
most of the other stuff doesnt get you anywhere anyway, 99% of the time you just need the basic controls and you can draft anything you want
in the past when i was growing up sure autocad was all there was avail.
today that is not the case if you want the fundamentals of traditional 2d cad drawing you can get them in intellicad for free and you would know autocad command per command like architechnophilia said
so maybe if you want to go autodesk def. go Revit
my experience is with 3 firms too. a 20 person a 3 person and now a 30,000 person ? woah. but like i said fun, and with all the mandated green building i fit right in, especially that i take alternative paths and challenge the mainstream convention.
ya cad 16 commands is the way i always put it... the basics
recognizing the software industry is both working for us trying to give us what we want and at the same time shooting them selfs in the foot by over competing with each other and in the end trinna be greedy(profit before people) when what we really want is more stuff to work together IFC's for instance or OpenDWG/DGN
plus then you give it to the interior designers who f the drawing all up anyway, so there is no point after that to try to fix it back to correct CAD standards
Archmed
most firms could definitely use something different, and as BIM gets more popular and takes over like it seems, that will be the case. but really, isnt autocad used in a large percentage of the firms out there right now? of course things will likely change in the future, but right now, Autocad is the standard at most places
its a disadvantage that can easily be avoided by anyone in school now who will be using a bunch of different programs anyway. why would you make a point to avoid autocad completely?
look i have never used Intellicad before, and dont know anything about it. if it is a clone of autocad and you can easily switch from it to Autocad with no problem, then great, yes go with that
i have listened to archicad users go on and on about how great it is before, and they assume anyone who doesnt want to use it is then saying it sucks and autocad is great
i am not saying that at all, i could care less
i was trying to have a conversation answering the original posters question
clearly that isnt possible
spout one liners all you want, no one is disagreeing with you
i'm tired of threads turning into people not willing to even listen to anyone else
there is more than one way to do things, i dont get why people here are so unwilling to accept that from other people
ArchiCad may still be free to students and is shipped to be loaded on both Mac & PC from the same disc - which doesn't sound like much until you need it. I'm a fan of the program myself, and so am biased though. It has the advantage of being both automatically 3D, BIM capable (but not automatic like Revit) and still have some really strong 2D Drafting capabilities (much stronger than Revit). Its output to ACAD is also as good or better than any non-autodesk product.
VW does a really poor job in converting files to ACAD. Vectorworks also promotes lazy/sloppy/sh!††y drafting habits - I'd especially avoid this program if you are just learning to draft.
PowerCadd is cheap, relatively easy to learn and will probably finally disappear in 5-10 years. But its a decent program.
ACAD does not see the need to go mac in their mind because a: They're the 800# gorilla, b: mac people being contrarians automatically hate ACAD (their thoughts if not words as expressed to me during my research) and c: all of Mac is going Unix/Parallels so you can use it on you mac anyway.
I would not say that ACAD is hard to learn - but its not a good design tool - you have to think too much about how to draft the item, not how it looks or is built. Don't get me wrong, once the project is designed and you memorize those commands, you can book through CD's, I just wouldn't use it to design.
oldfogey
i agree with that, but apparently today all you need to do is tell someone about archicad and they will change their entire office for you
i didnt realize that was the case
ArchiCAD is a program that does a pretty good job at everything (not fantastic, but pretty darn good) and that's why the people who enjoy working with it really like it. But its not the end all be all - never will be. There are programs out there, each with their niche, but there's only a few with a good sized niche - and as far as production drawings go, that niche is owned lock stock and barrel by ACAD.
i think if you dont learn autocad and think you can just tell people what to work with, you are fooling yourself, even if you are right in saying archicad is a better program
you limit yourself and where you can go and work if you want to tell people what programs you will and wont use
argue all you want to about how there are better programs, but if you want to work, learn it. archicad isnt perfect and has its own issues, and one day there will be another program to come along that everyone will say is the best.
and seriously, no one has given a real reason not to learn AutoCAD at least at a basic level. what would be the point in not learning what is a valuable tool in this profession? i still havent heard a reason that makes sense
well each firm is different. there is always that 1 office known as the 'archicad office' and their marketers are really aggressive.
it really depends on the skill set of the production staff and the project.
more like no OpenDWG compliant format no job OldFogey, that makes sense especially when it comes to consultants.
now that i know about all this it kinda blows my mind that companies still form out mulla to keep on subscription.
maybe that is the real issue here the ways in witch autodesk retains customers, not being able to upgrade at upgrade costs past certain strategically set dates and suing the open design alliance etc.
also once you learn something and use it allot its hard to change horses in mid stream so to speak. i really feel for that guy who had to use Microstation ;)
Beginning the Basics... why autoCAD? is there an alternative?
I've just started studying, learning autocad is a requirement of my course, and i've got a macbook pro...
i know i have to do the bootcamp, install windows partition blah blah to use autocad, which ain't too much of a pain, but there lies my question.
Why Autocad? is there an alternative that i can use on Mac OS11 so i don't have to screw around switching between OS's all day?? ,(i know very little about any other CAD programs such as 3dMAX, NX, archicad etc. is there a CAD program out there any1 recommends starting on.. BESIDES AUTOCAD. any help is greatly appreciated!
There are plenty...
2d: PowerCADD
2d and 3d: Vectorworks and Archicad
http://architoshforums.forest.net/
i saw a phenomenal project done on coreldraw.
microstation is one i won't suggest.
well, you can learn vectorworks on a mac, but that won't satisfy your requirement to learn autocad for a course...so whats the point exactly?
autocad is not a bad software to know by any means. something about it put you off other than the OS issue?
yes that's right 'jump', autocad is a requirement of my course, and as i also mentioned i have just started studying, so i'm new to all of it. i am learning it, i'm just getting opinions on what else is out there besides autocad, as it is frustrating moving between OS when i could be using a more streamline, faster and mac freindly program. Also to find out how others have found autocad that have a mac. i didn't mean for the title to sound negative,i am just interested in what people have to say who have been studying and working in the field much longer than i have. - that was the point.
thankyou 'makeArchitecture" for the link and suggestions, i have dowloaded archicad and trying it out right now i also found google SketchUP which is extrmely simple to use - what's your take on it?
i like microstation. i don't know if they make it for mac though.
If there's any CAD software you should learn, AutoCad is it. Close second would be Revit, another Autodesk program. They are the closest thing to an industry standard. Almost all engineers use Autodesk and the majority of architects do. That's why your course requires it, and why a slight inconvenience today is worth it in the long run.
I know soon as I submit this 10 people are going to bark back talking about their offices running Mac's, etc. All I'm saying is that's still by far the exception, so take Jump's advise, it's not a bad software to know.
Microstation is a distant second to Autocad. I know all gov't work needs to be done in that...and is popular in some regions. But, love it or hate it, Autocad is still the king.
Autodesk doesn't like Apple (why, don't ask me)
If/When they switch Macs will begin to look like an alternative. This is true for 3D Studio too.
THANKYOU 'aquapura'!!! for giving a constructive comment. instead of having 20 vague comments, i fortunately have 1 informative one, and it's all ill probably need, with a few others to agree of course.
don't get me wrong, i like autocad. it's simple, and the command line allows much better accuracy in telling it how and what to do. was just putting the feelers out for something better.. but sounds like mayb not.
I prefer to do my 2d and 3d work in Rhino...no need to bounce around all these programs when one will do the job.
you might be very limited in any job searches if you dont know how to use autocad. as some have mentioned, it really is not the norm for an office to use something other than autocad.
my advice would be to learn autocad now, first to get the credit for your course, and second, its something that anyone starting out should have a good grasp on in general
you will need to have a very good reason that you dont know autocad and dont use it on a job interview. most places it will be a requirement for someone starting at the intern level out of school.
plus
its perfectly reasonable to do your work in another program, but you will sound more credible to a potential employer if you say, i can use autocad, but i prefer this program for reason A,B,&C
right now its one of those things that are essentially an industry standard for 99% of the offices out there. kind of like knowing how to use Microsoft Word
after university, the choice of drawing/drafting/design software is significantly (but not exclusively) about the need to easily exchange files among individuals and firms, and about the need for multiple individuals to work on the same file. this largely means every individual cannot use just any software they prefer because the variety of file formats and procedural considerations leads to chaos in organizations.
until the concept of "interoperability" becomes a true reality, there will tend to be a "dominant" software at every application level -- even if that software isn't necessarily the "best" (a highly arguable concept).
today, AutoCAD is the dominant software in the 2-D world, Revit is rapidly becoming the dominant software in the 3-D world. and, because we love it so much, Windows will remain the dominant operating system for the forseeable future.
I'm sorry you have to use autocad on a mac, there aren't much worse things you can do. But once you learn the basics they will stick with you for life.
Now as it relates to your mac, I'd suggest going for ArchiCAD, its free for students (the link is at the bottom of my blog) and once you learn it you'll find that the commands are similar to those on VectorWorks as well as Microstation (well at least when I last used them a while back). All those software have 3d capabilities and are fairly productive for a school environment.
Sorry that you thought that so many of the responses are vague. You will see as time progresses in your studies that software doesn't matter. Nonetheless it is good to know them. Hope all of this helps.
cheers
dc
i'm with jasoncross here. Rhinoceros all the way, y do i need anything else? no autocad no 3dmax/maya no illustrator, no indesign. yes a little pixel pushing so i do use PSCS3 portable (44mb) but i am always on the lookout for alternatives that are comparable , getpaint.net and artweaver.de are 2 that are getting close.
what IS important is compatibility/interoperability. i find all the IntelliCAD's and Rhinoceros to offer just what i need to be able to work with all my consultants and they wouldn't know any different if i didn't tell them
but when it comes to BIM yes it may be a good idea to know Revit.
Sketchup while it may be fast it is polygon based unlike more superior models and if you get far in it you will fast realize its inadequacies and reach the ceiling in it.
as far as mac's they are just PC clones now , heck if you want you can even run OSX on most any box now too. i am not fan of any monopoly
does anyone not know autocad at all, and where do you work? i definitely agree that it should all be done with one program, but realistically, the way most firms are, you really limit yourself if you only go somewhere that uses Rhino.
unless you work for yourself, then you can do what you please
i just think for someone in school now, it is easy enough to learn AutoCAD to just have in your pocket at least, so when you graduate and start working, you dont get stuck having to learn it on the fly. you will look much worse if you say "i dont know autocad and never bothered to learn" than if you say "i personally use X program rather than autocad for these reasons, but if i need to i can use autocad"
then you can explain to your boss why you feel the other program is better, and if you make a good enough case, they will switch.
no you don't
if you know autocad rhino will be second nature to you and you will realize how weak and archaic autocad is.
your job choices will be very limited if you demand to use only rhino or a particular program of choice
and why would an office change how they work because some intern just out of school says his way is better? at least if you know their way, you can show them how rhino or whatever is better and will make them more productive. otherwise they will want to know why its better. if you dont have an answer beyond your autocad is archaic and weak response, you will get nowhere
you cant honestly believe that many firms will let you use whatever program you want
the real world doesnt work that way
they dont hire you right out of school to come in and change the way they do their work. you have to have a reason
i second the Archicad comment, esp if you're using a Mac. everything you draw is three dimensional, forcing you to understand the implications of every design decision. in addition, it easily saves drawings as a dwg or a pdf.
IntelliCAD is the shit. Same commands as ACAD, same potential, runs all the scripts and plug-ins and is about 1/10th the price.
I would learn 3 or 4 programs and get good at them:
Autocad
Sketchup
Rhino
Archicad
Revit and Archicad are really similar now.
ArchiCAD being open source and free in many cases and being a clone of autocad i think the argument to drop Autocad is solid.
Intellicad for native Linux too. another thing autodesk will not/ can not do
i mean did you know their CEO works for bush as a 'science' adviser?
marmkid
you are absolutely incorrect
i have proven the benefits and they do let me use what i want and it is the 3rd biggest firm in the world and i am no intern i am an experienced professional in the field for 11 years.
oops i am no Archicad fan the oddball snaps, i just couldn't hang ;)
but you cant expect to be able to have your employer drop autocad based solely on that. they will look at it that they have to then either train their other employees to use ArchiCAD, or allow you to use ArchiCAD and just be responsible for the conversion and any coordination that comes with that.
not saying it wouldnt happen, but i know a lot of places wont let you use a pet program, because they have their own system set up for compatibility with all their employees.
the poster here asked why does he need to learn autocad, due to its problems and what seem to be better programs out there now.
my answer is that when in school, its best to learn a couple different programs, but one should definitely be autocad, since that is most likely what you will be using when you start working.
again
why would a company hire an intern out of school who doesnt use their software, and demands to use his own?
the answer is chances are they wont hire him
the argument to drop autocad is valid, but it is not a sure thing, otherwise everyone would be using ArchiCAD, and they arent.
right, from what i hear from my friends in other offices, people are moving closer and closer to fully depending on Revit. i think it's becoming apparent that it's ridiculous to draw the same thing in five different places. with archicad and revit, one single 'move' updates every drawing simultaneously.
that is definitely the way things are heading, wrecking ball
but you really should know autocad also
antisthenes
that is why your firm would listen to your opinion about the program. but the majority of firms dont care about the software opinion of someone they hire right out of school, that isnt what they are being hired for
if benoh doesnt learn autocad now while in school, he will graduate and try to find a job. what he will find is that most places will not let him pick and choose whatever he wants, and unless they are hiring him specifically to update their software, they will want him to use autocad
again
MOST PLACES
not everywhere of course (i never said everywhere)
your place obviously listened to your arguments and changed and adapted. did they do that on your first day there?
my point isnt to argue whether autocad is better than archicad. i have never used archicad and am make people think it sucks. i am only saying that to be realistic, you should know autocad, its simple to learn, then go ahead and use whatever else you want.
typo
my point isnt to argue whether autocad is better than archicad. i have never used archicad and am NOT TRYING TO make people think it sucks. i am only saying that to be realistic, you should know autocad, its simple to learn, then go ahead and use whatever else you want.
ps i didn't go to school.
my typo was archicad(sucks) i meant intellicad ;p
for BIM i am waiting on Athens (VisualARQ)
and i do BOM every day i prefer that method.
yes even in my interview i discussed it so my first day, yes.
heheh, hey what ever is more fun to work in that you can do more powerful less step stuff right?
The learning curve for autocad is very steep and very big but once your over that curve, you will come to depend on ACAD.
i meant i had a typo and was fixing it with that 2nd post
it sounds like your route wasnt the same as the one benoh is on now. i was talking to him about the route he is currently taking. as discuessed many times before in other threads, there are many different ways for your career to go.
i have worked in 3 different firms in my short career and can only speak on them and my experience. they range from a very small 5 person firm, a decent size 20 person firm, and the one i work at now, which is roughly 400 people.
based on my experience, you put yourself at a disadvantage for no reason if you dont learn autocad, especially considering the little time it takes to get good at it and be much better with it than most of the people out there working with it today. i dont think you need to only work in that, but to not know it at all puts you behind for no reason.
i completely agree that you should voice your opinion at work and make it known there is something you feel works better and would make the firm more productive. if you know autocad, you will then be able to present whatever other program you prefer and can point out why it works better
it only makes your argument stronger
Apurimac?
do you really think its hard to learn autocad
to get the basics down, i thought it was pretty simple
you mean PL, PEDIT, CP, TR, EX, EXT, C, ARC, yeah the basics are easy, but the rest is a pain in the ass
I didn't really know any CAD programs until I started work. I mean I used autocad for a few plans and sections during school and was pretty familiar with how to use it. But keep in mind that most firms could possibly use something different. As a matter of fact, we used microstation so I had to relearn everything.
yeah i was only refering to the basics
most of the other stuff doesnt get you anywhere anyway, 99% of the time you just need the basic controls and you can draft anything you want
in the past when i was growing up sure autocad was all there was avail.
today that is not the case if you want the fundamentals of traditional 2d cad drawing you can get them in intellicad for free and you would know autocad command per command like architechnophilia said
so maybe if you want to go autodesk def. go Revit
my experience is with 3 firms too. a 20 person a 3 person and now a 30,000 person ? woah. but like i said fun, and with all the mandated green building i fit right in, especially that i take alternative paths and challenge the mainstream convention.
ya cad 16 commands is the way i always put it... the basics
recognizing the software industry is both working for us trying to give us what we want and at the same time shooting them selfs in the foot by over competing with each other and in the end trinna be greedy(profit before people) when what we really want is more stuff to work together IFC's for instance or OpenDWG/DGN
plus then you give it to the interior designers who f the drawing all up anyway, so there is no point after that to try to fix it back to correct CAD standards
Archmed
most firms could definitely use something different, and as BIM gets more popular and takes over like it seems, that will be the case. but really, isnt autocad used in a large percentage of the firms out there right now? of course things will likely change in the future, but right now, Autocad is the standard at most places
its a disadvantage that can easily be avoided by anyone in school now who will be using a bunch of different programs anyway. why would you make a point to avoid autocad completely?
because intellicad exists and it is a clone
open source, free to nearly free
you have not lived till you've tried polyvore
look i have never used Intellicad before, and dont know anything about it. if it is a clone of autocad and you can easily switch from it to Autocad with no problem, then great, yes go with that
i have listened to archicad users go on and on about how great it is before, and they assume anyone who doesnt want to use it is then saying it sucks and autocad is great
i am not saying that at all, i could care less
i was trying to have a conversation answering the original posters question
clearly that isnt possible
spout one liners all you want, no one is disagreeing with you
i'm tired of threads turning into people not willing to even listen to anyone else
there is more than one way to do things, i dont get why people here are so unwilling to accept that from other people
ArchiCad may still be free to students and is shipped to be loaded on both Mac & PC from the same disc - which doesn't sound like much until you need it. I'm a fan of the program myself, and so am biased though. It has the advantage of being both automatically 3D, BIM capable (but not automatic like Revit) and still have some really strong 2D Drafting capabilities (much stronger than Revit). Its output to ACAD is also as good or better than any non-autodesk product.
VW does a really poor job in converting files to ACAD. Vectorworks also promotes lazy/sloppy/sh!††y drafting habits - I'd especially avoid this program if you are just learning to draft.
PowerCadd is cheap, relatively easy to learn and will probably finally disappear in 5-10 years. But its a decent program.
ACAD does not see the need to go mac in their mind because a: They're the 800# gorilla, b: mac people being contrarians automatically hate ACAD (their thoughts if not words as expressed to me during my research) and c: all of Mac is going Unix/Parallels so you can use it on you mac anyway.
I would not say that ACAD is hard to learn - but its not a good design tool - you have to think too much about how to draft the item, not how it looks or is built. Don't get me wrong, once the project is designed and you memorize those commands, you can book through CD's, I just wouldn't use it to design.
Hey, nobody has yet mentioned the program that shall not be named...
what program is that crowbert?
oldfogey
i agree with that, but apparently today all you need to do is tell someone about archicad and they will change their entire office for you
i didnt realize that was the case
You will eventually need to learn ACAD. If you want a job that is.
no, havent you been listening to everyone crowbert?
you dont need to know it at all anymore
But you do need to know AutoCAD marm.
ArchiCAD is a program that does a pretty good job at everything (not fantastic, but pretty darn good) and that's why the people who enjoy working with it really like it. But its not the end all be all - never will be. There are programs out there, each with their niche, but there's only a few with a good sized niche - and as far as production drawings go, that niche is owned lock stock and barrel by ACAD.
oh, sorry crowbert
i was being sarcastic
i think if you dont learn autocad and think you can just tell people what to work with, you are fooling yourself, even if you are right in saying archicad is a better program
you limit yourself and where you can go and work if you want to tell people what programs you will and wont use
argue all you want to about how there are better programs, but if you want to work, learn it. archicad isnt perfect and has its own issues, and one day there will be another program to come along that everyone will say is the best.
and seriously, no one has given a real reason not to learn AutoCAD at least at a basic level. what would be the point in not learning what is a valuable tool in this profession? i still havent heard a reason that makes sense
crowbert MOI?
well each firm is different. there is always that 1 office known as the 'archicad office' and their marketers are really aggressive.
it really depends on the skill set of the production staff and the project.
more like no OpenDWG compliant format no job OldFogey, that makes sense especially when it comes to consultants.
ya marmkid have a look at this to see what a free intellicad, progecad offers for free
http://www.softsea.com/review/ProgeCAD-LT-2006.html
now that i know about all this it kinda blows my mind that companies still form out mulla to keep on subscription.
maybe that is the real issue here the ways in witch autodesk retains customers, not being able to upgrade at upgrade costs past certain strategically set dates and suing the open design alliance etc.
... listening, making aesthetic only service release bug fix upgrades new versions
also once you learn something and use it allot its hard to change horses in mid stream so to speak. i really feel for that guy who had to use Microstation ;)
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