.. also if the programs are similar enough (command line based) it is not so hard

i consider stuff like archicad and form z aliens

thats also a good point antisthenes

if you only learn one program and get great at that, then what happens if it doesnt become the popular end all program to replace AutoCAD?

you just crippled yourself for no reason, just because you were stubborn and refused to learn what everyone is using


i remember when i was in school, there was a guy in our class who only used archicad and refused to use AutoCAD. on the big group project, everything had to be adjusted and converted to fit his needs versus his groups. all because he refused to adapt to his group. now what if that had been a client who wanted you to work with a certaini engineering or interior design firm? do you then make them adjust to you or have the option of doing a project in AutoCAD?

its good business sense not to be so stubborn without a real reason

life is about compromises for sure.

its not really much of a compromise

thats like saying i dont like to review shop drawings, i would rather be designing all day long
but today i will compromise and review these

its not in any job description that you get to do what you want all the time and use any program whenever you want
you have to work with other people in this profession, its not a huge deal to use AutoCAD at least part of the time

if it is really such a problem, go to a firm that only uses what you want. you limit yourself at the beginning, but you can eventually overcome that i would imagine

i just dont understand why that is the stand to take? i can see people refusing to work for a firm that does a certain kind of work, or one that isnt their style of design, or one that isnt sustainable enough, etc. but to get so worked up over a computer program?

woah

reading the original post, not being a mac person, i would suggest you try. www.irhino3d.com benoh, the native MAC OSX version of Rhinoceros. thou i don't know where in the development process it is, because i don't use OSX but i could load OSX on a pc(probably with out good drivers unless i had compatible hardware osX86project) like you will have to load windows on your MAC if you want to run autocad.

thankyou to those of you who took the time to give your opinions and advice.

from what's been posted so far i can see that:

- i will keep on leraning the basics of autocad (nearly done anyways)

- To download intellicad to try it out.

- archicad & revit will most definitely be the next one to learn.

- autocad is an industry 'base' standard, but by all means not to limit myself singling the program out, whether it be to avoid it, or only use it.

seems like a pretty good approach benoh

getting at least a taste of a variety of programs while in school will only help you later on

good luck!

bummer

whats a bummer?

that he didn't plan to try the Free MAC OS X ver. of Rhino

it's all good thou

good luck for sure sounds like you have lots to learn :)

here's my $.02

if you're a consultant/subcontractor/etc then you can use whatever the heck you want (we use vectorworks) but what you really NEED to know how to do is export and import autocad files cleanly and efficiently so that you don't foul up the gears of everyone else on the project team.

it helps at a minimum to know just enough autocad so that you can open a file and check for problems on your exports. other than that i think it's a piece of garbage, but whatever. i just need to export to it anyway.

not talking about it from other professions point of view, mainly from an architect's
but seriously, is autocad really that bad?
why cant we accept it for what it is, that its a drafting program that has been around forever.

but lets not go overboard here saying it is the worst thing ever made. its not that hard to deal with
if you want to do everything in 3d and in one file, of course you arent going to use autocad
thats not what its for

but listening to some people complain about it would make you think it is the absolute worst thing ever made and makes our jobs a million times harder.
what would some old school architects say if they heard us crying about how our "computer" program isnt fast enough or didnt work the way we wanted it to
they would tell the stories about back in the old days when all drawings were by hand and by one person

Having used both vectorworks and autocad, vectorworks is much worse...

it might not be the worst (it sounds like vectorworks and microstation are worse) but the practice of the company that makes it and how to export their customers is maybe the worst.

kinda like that saying it isn't the people of usa it is the policy of the usa government that is atrocious.

you just need to use what you are comfortable with

the program doesnt make good architecture by any stretch of the imagination

plenty of nice work has been made with autocad
its all personal preference

antisthenes - i'll check out rhino too.

For anybody else who is in similar OS situation to myself, Rhino is finalising a mac osx version.. it's FREE as they need feedback on what needs improvement.

All you need to do is go to community.irhino3d.com and fill out the short application.

Seems like a pretty damn good opportunity to put all the threads we post on archinect about solving interoperability problems and wishes of that 'better' cad program into a reality!

thanks for the link antisthenes

while not a universally held opinion, since the arrival of the original IBM PC, most people feel the "best" software is the software they know the best.

most people like what they already know -- while they may complain about that application's features or interface, in the end they hate to give it up and learn a new package because they've already mastered, and become comfortable with, the idiosyncrasies of their old software.

for example - I, for one, hate the new MS Office -- I've been using MS-Word since 1981 and don't know why MicroSoft had to bugger up the user interface so I can't find any of the commands that previously I could use in my sleep. I'm gradually getting used to it, because I have no choice. But, I've yet to find any real advantages to the new look and feel.

the new AutoCAD (2009) does the same thing (ribbon menus, "hiding" commands, etc.) fortunately you can turn off most of those things (AutoCAD Classic).

When learning AutoCAD or any other CAD/Design program it's a good idea to learn the keyboard/command line shortcuts(these usually don't change with each iteration) as well since UI designers have a habit of tweaking the icons and the overall layout sometimes to a point where it's difficult to find things (as with the new Office).

Sometimes I swear that the software designers don't actually use the product that they're designing and therefore have no idea the trouble they cause.

your welcome :)

see McNeel doesn't do traditional marketing and they have a open beta and take users input to make things the way YOU want it and that is y i have been helping them voluntarily with this since 1997 and i get lots of benefit to do neat things that are not possible in other applications.


babs ewwww MS have you tried open office? i was trinna say Use it instead of Powerpoint in the pinup vs powerpoint thread but i think nobody noticed. i prefer openoffice much more than Msoffice because of one thing it does that rhino also does , AUTO COMPLETION of commands/words very nice.