ok let me say first i love los angeles. i love ktown. architecture scene reasonably happening. i love the beach too. weather even better.
but... im seriously thinking of moving bc it is too expensive here.
namely real estate. its too hard to save money here or build equity when you are renting a place for 2k/ mo w yr fiancee. even harder to buy a place. in another way its v time costly all the time i might need to drive around. and the traffic is really sick here.
ive always been thinking about this but what really triggered this was a college buddy of mine who is a doctor lives in cleveland bought a 1750 sq ft nice house for 150k built in the 1920's brick, hardwood floors w little yard. he put down 3% and has a fixed 30 yr at a bit below 6%. he thought about getting a bigger house but decided to play it safe w the current housing decline...
so anyhow yeh theres a reason why cleveland is cheap but ive all but decided on moving someplace for at least 3-4 years to give myself some more financial wiggle room.
any thoughts on any of these places? or other under the radar city that might be interesting? someone told me minneapolis was actually pretty cool.
i used to live in philly for about 10 yrs but that was about 10 yrs ago.
a little gritty but not a bad place. i used to live on 40's of silver thunder
and fried chicken from the local corner store. but if you want to eat good there are lots of places also. but it was a long time ago. the housing stock is v good in philly also.
portland i dont know much about but a few friends who are there really like it. one brags about his 5 min commute to work. but thats the most expensive place on the list. but a hell of a lot cheaper and more convenient than l.a.
I moved to philly about 2 years ago from NYC. its pretty decent over here.
good amount of public transportation (center city is pretty accessible via septa trains)
i'm able to take a bus from center city to nyc for school
Bought a house for fairly cheap and has huge yards.
Some areas are pretty frightening though, you just have to find a decent suburb.
I'd toss Pittsburgh into the mix - do your research and you'll find that it's a very attractive place to be. Affordable neighborhoods/homes, up-and-coming tech city, home to many top universities, decent cultural venues, good bars & restaurants, lots of bike trails and is very close to outdoorsy stuff.
I'd toss in New Haven also. It's practically an extension of NYC (90 minutes away via 50+ commuter trains per day), has a great cultural scene, burgeoning downtown, very short commutes, low crime, plenty of outdoor activities (including the ocean), much wealthier and stronger economy than any of the other cities on your list. Also, lots of good architecture firms doing international work. As a metro region, New Haven and Silicon Valley are the two richest metro areas in the United States, and the institutional base is very strong and growing. It's not quite as affordable as many of the other cities you listed, but there's a very good reason for that.
Philly and Cleveland are complete craphole places to live unless you love crime and sitting in traffic jams, and Portland is just plain overrated.
where is your family from? your fiancee's family? life changes pretty fast after you get married, and while you're thinking about a 3-4 year move, it becomes much more difficult to move after marriage, particularly after buying a house. i would begin looking at this move with a much longer time frame in mind. are you thinking about kids anytime soon? where do you want to practice? where can your future wife find work? cost of living is one factor among many. it's a difficult decision to make.
well 3-4 yrs was the minimum. for me it doesnt really matter where i practice. i already have 1 foot out of the door. yes kids are on the v near term radar. and whether future wife can work is an issue but not critical.
annonyc, u live in new haven? i thought new haven and providence would be decent hedges while staying in the urban mix. i like the fact you take a 90 min ride and yre in nyc. i grew up in rhode island so i know what that is all about.
Apr 16, 08 10:15 am ·
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taco truck...Rising Sun Avenue, just north of Tabor Road, Philadelphia, right in front of the Mexican grocery store (which used to be Gallager's Candies).
Wrong, treekiller. New Haven has incredible taco trucks. Greenlander, Providence/RI is a bit more frumpy/conservative New England (like Boston), while New Haven culturally is very multicultural and much more like a miniature NYC. Now it even has the restaurants to match; there are about 200 downtown now, including many NYTimes five-star places and even a couple that international reviews have called the best Spanish and Indian restaurants in the United States.
greenlander1...move to detroit...you can make a difference with your architecture, and you can buy amazing real estate in places like grosse pointe for under 300k...
honestly havent given too much thought about moving back to l.a. i like it but id need the right situation to come back. haha im talking about moving back and i havent even left!
i mention the 3-4 years as a minimum time frame. im not worried about whether its a permanent move just looking to make an intermediate term improvement on things.
yes philly loves its beer. i miss yuengling and dock street. and cheesesteaks. mmm cheesesteaks.
mdler you already have work in portland? and is the rent a significantly better situation than in l.a.? my friends say so. but i agree w a lot of people here. its relative value compared to some of the other cities i think is somewhat overrated but still a lot better value than l.a.
anyhow i have to say im thinking new haven could be an interesting hedge. i think by sometime next year i would have enough financial leverage to buy a place. i know v little about the prospects for the real estate market there though. i like r.i. but my parents would terrorize me.
reason why im bringing this up is im planning on doing a little bit of city touring this summer. im prob going to cleveland/ philly trip bc i also have friends out there and portland also but might be ambitious and sneak in another city.
I dont have work lined up in Portland yet...I just have found myself in a situation where a move is possible; i have been planning to get out of LA for a while and things are now allowing that to become more of a possibility.
Portland seems like it is more my speed; I havent been there yet and am already saying this ;). LA has just gotten to me so much lately.
Moving back east doesnt seem like something I want to do right now. I grew up in the midwest and lived in NYC, so I do have spent some time living back there. Pacific Northwest seems to have the lifestyle that I want to be living at the present time; a good combination of small urban and natural / rural
You could do Philadelphia, Allentown, Stamford, New Haven, Hartford and the Hudson Valley (Hudson, Poughkeepsie etc) in a couple of days if you're creative about it. If you want a good mix of L.A.-style diversity and urban life though, I'd stick to places on major train lines and within reach of other very large cities. That disqualifies Portland, Pittsburgh and Cleveland if you ask me.
It's not on a major train line, so it would be disqualified under my rules as well. It also still has a very long way to go in terms of downtown vibrancy, maybe not compared to some Midwestern cities, but definitely when compared with Boston, NYC, New Haven, Philly or even Stamford.
New Haven sounds interesting - I think it was profiled in Metropolis a few years back for making some bold moves to bring back a strong urban center? - but I take exception to Philly being described as a "craphole". When I moved there in '95 it was close to that description, but in the last 12 years it has changed immensely. It's super cool now, but not terribly cheap, at least for housing in the walkable downtown core.
Portland has better beer than any other city in the US, bar none. It's all fresh, easily available (like a microbrewery on every other block practically) and made with love. But I don't think housing is inexpensive there, unless you live way the hell out on the east side like my parents have for the last 15 years. But from there you can take MAX light rail into the city for work.
Portland also has a beautiful setting, sandwiched between a river and a lush wooded hill with gorgeous mountains on all horizons beyond. But if we're speaking landscape, Pittsburgh is one of the most dramatically sited cities I've ever seen, and also has a cool downtown cultural scene plus some universites, and is cheap.
is ortlieb's still around in philly?
man i used to go there all the time.
ive lived in the burbs outside of philly (havertown) 1976-80
and west philly 1991-95.
ive def seen my share of crime when i was there but the traffic i cant imagine could even come close to l.a. besides i hear philly has changed a lot. i liked the fact it felt like a city not some overgrown village. for me thats a big draw.
Yes Ortliebs is still around! In the past year or so they've updated the food and some of the decor. They still have that awkward bathroom though, but considering the quality of jazz that comes out of that place, it can be overlooked...
Back to topic - Although the city itself is an important factor, I would also consider the firms that are in the city. Obviously I don't know what it is like in Cleveland or Portland, but there are plenty of good firms in Philly. In fact, I would say the top two offices I would work for is in Philly even if I could choose from any firm in the country.
yeah that is true, the traffic is absolutely nothing compared to LA. and if you live in the city, why would you be driving that much anyway? i live outside of center city and drive maybe once a week. i am 2 blocks from the subway, it gets me everywhere i need to go
anonnyc, what are you comparing philly traffic to? from what i have experienced here and from what i hear of other cities, its not that bad at all
"Philly and Cleveland are complete craphole places to live unless you love crime and sitting in traffic jams, and Portland is just plain overrated."
yea I hear everyone in cleveland has guns and they all shoot somebody else at least once a week.
if you believe crap like this then you are a total idiot. dont listen to that bull.. let me give you the stats.
i can't say anything negative about anywhere else because im not about to bash some other city.. i am just going to tell you what i know about the city of cleveland.
Downtown Cleveland is absolutely gorgeous. It has everything you want from a downtown, and a great sense of community. Downtown is an incredible neighborhood, yes i said neighborhood, with a LOT to offer. I would urge you to check out this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Cleveland
in 2005 it was rated by the Brookings Institution as one of America's "Emerging Downtowns", due to its 32.2% growth rate from 1990 to 2000 and it has been growing very rapidly ever since.
Yes Cleveland is a very blue-collar city... and if thats what you are looking for then you will be right at home. You can get excellent housing for excellent prices. Oh and I can tell you that even though there might be a lot of breweries in other cities.. there is still GREAT beer available in Cleveland (and i bet its cheaper here, too.. ;)
there is plenty here for any of your tastes.. if you want to hit the bar on a friday night and drink beer with your buds you can do that, as well as take a date out to incredibly upscale restaurants.
buyers housing market, traffic is incredibly good for a downtown, living is inexpensive, great art, booming downtown with a large amount of new projects, and did i mention it is tied with pittsburg as the most livable city in america?
Cleveland also has the spectacularily awesome Great lakes Brewery and Pub. I think the old german brew making tradition lives on still in Clevland. I'm sure portland has quite the brew scene too.
Jul 1, 08 10:39 pm ·
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thoughts on a move to cleveland, philly, portland?
ok let me say first i love los angeles. i love ktown. architecture scene reasonably happening. i love the beach too. weather even better.
but... im seriously thinking of moving bc it is too expensive here.
namely real estate. its too hard to save money here or build equity when you are renting a place for 2k/ mo w yr fiancee. even harder to buy a place. in another way its v time costly all the time i might need to drive around. and the traffic is really sick here.
ive always been thinking about this but what really triggered this was a college buddy of mine who is a doctor lives in cleveland bought a 1750 sq ft nice house for 150k built in the 1920's brick, hardwood floors w little yard. he put down 3% and has a fixed 30 yr at a bit below 6%. he thought about getting a bigger house but decided to play it safe w the current housing decline...
so anyhow yeh theres a reason why cleveland is cheap but ive all but decided on moving someplace for at least 3-4 years to give myself some more financial wiggle room.
any thoughts on any of these places? or other under the radar city that might be interesting? someone told me minneapolis was actually pretty cool.
replace cleveland with cincy.
ohio will be cheapest.
portland will be the best lifestyle.
philly will be the most accessible to other cities.
cincy will have the best beer selection.
portland will have the best local beer selection.
philly will have the most liquor.
cincy really? please explain.
i used to live in philly for about 10 yrs but that was about 10 yrs ago.
a little gritty but not a bad place. i used to live on 40's of silver thunder
and fried chicken from the local corner store. but if you want to eat good there are lots of places also. but it was a long time ago. the housing stock is v good in philly also.
portland i dont know much about but a few friends who are there really like it. one brags about his 5 min commute to work. but thats the most expensive place on the list. but a hell of a lot cheaper and more convenient than l.a.
I'm sorry, but why is Portland coming up so much?
But, seriously...
The city is known for innovative urban planning policy initiatives and a focus on affordable housing.
This could also have something to do with it.
I moved to philly about 2 years ago from NYC. its pretty decent over here.
good amount of public transportation (center city is pretty accessible via septa trains)
i'm able to take a bus from center city to nyc for school
Bought a house for fairly cheap and has huge yards.
Some areas are pretty frightening though, you just have to find a decent suburb.
i love the idea of moving to cleveland...but probably won't manage to do it myself.
I'd toss Pittsburgh into the mix - do your research and you'll find that it's a very attractive place to be. Affordable neighborhoods/homes, up-and-coming tech city, home to many top universities, decent cultural venues, good bars & restaurants, lots of bike trails and is very close to outdoorsy stuff.
I'd toss in New Haven also. It's practically an extension of NYC (90 minutes away via 50+ commuter trains per day), has a great cultural scene, burgeoning downtown, very short commutes, low crime, plenty of outdoor activities (including the ocean), much wealthier and stronger economy than any of the other cities on your list. Also, lots of good architecture firms doing international work. As a metro region, New Haven and Silicon Valley are the two richest metro areas in the United States, and the institutional base is very strong and growing. It's not quite as affordable as many of the other cities you listed, but there's a very good reason for that.
Philly and Cleveland are complete craphole places to live unless you love crime and sitting in traffic jams, and Portland is just plain overrated.
Providence is another one worth looking into.
there are NO taco trucks in any of those cities...
where is your family from? your fiancee's family? life changes pretty fast after you get married, and while you're thinking about a 3-4 year move, it becomes much more difficult to move after marriage, particularly after buying a house. i would begin looking at this move with a much longer time frame in mind. are you thinking about kids anytime soon? where do you want to practice? where can your future wife find work? cost of living is one factor among many. it's a difficult decision to make.
hows the architecture scene there? hard to find work?
pittsburgh that is.
well 3-4 yrs was the minimum. for me it doesnt really matter where i practice. i already have 1 foot out of the door. yes kids are on the v near term radar. and whether future wife can work is an issue but not critical.
annonyc, u live in new haven? i thought new haven and providence would be decent hedges while staying in the urban mix. i like the fact you take a 90 min ride and yre in nyc. i grew up in rhode island so i know what that is all about.
taco truck...Rising Sun Avenue, just north of Tabor Road, Philadelphia, right in front of the Mexican grocery store (which used to be Gallager's Candies).
Wrong, treekiller. New Haven has incredible taco trucks. Greenlander, Providence/RI is a bit more frumpy/conservative New England (like Boston), while New Haven culturally is very multicultural and much more like a miniature NYC. Now it even has the restaurants to match; there are about 200 downtown now, including many NYTimes five-star places and even a couple that international reviews have called the best Spanish and Indian restaurants in the United States.
There is no way in hell Cincy has better beers than Philly.
please, if you're making this decision on beer alone...
greenlander1...move to detroit...you can make a difference with your architecture, and you can buy amazing real estate in places like grosse pointe for under 300k...
seriously, come to detroit and make a difference.
greenlander
I am going to move to Portland in the near future...we could split the moving truck fee
are you saying you will be there for only 3-4 years then go back to LA? or are you looking for a permanent move
philly has some good beers
not sure if thats a reason to come here or not though
honestly havent given too much thought about moving back to l.a. i like it but id need the right situation to come back. haha im talking about moving back and i havent even left!
i mention the 3-4 years as a minimum time frame. im not worried about whether its a permanent move just looking to make an intermediate term improvement on things.
yes philly loves its beer. i miss yuengling and dock street. and cheesesteaks. mmm cheesesteaks.
mdler you already have work in portland? and is the rent a significantly better situation than in l.a.? my friends say so. but i agree w a lot of people here. its relative value compared to some of the other cities i think is somewhat overrated but still a lot better value than l.a.
anyhow i have to say im thinking new haven could be an interesting hedge. i think by sometime next year i would have enough financial leverage to buy a place. i know v little about the prospects for the real estate market there though. i like r.i. but my parents would terrorize me.
reason why im bringing this up is im planning on doing a little bit of city touring this summer. im prob going to cleveland/ philly trip bc i also have friends out there and portland also but might be ambitious and sneak in another city.
greenlander1
I dont have work lined up in Portland yet...I just have found myself in a situation where a move is possible; i have been planning to get out of LA for a while and things are now allowing that to become more of a possibility.
Portland seems like it is more my speed; I havent been there yet and am already saying this ;). LA has just gotten to me so much lately.
Moving back east doesnt seem like something I want to do right now. I grew up in the midwest and lived in NYC, so I do have spent some time living back there. Pacific Northwest seems to have the lifestyle that I want to be living at the present time; a good combination of small urban and natural / rural
You could do Philadelphia, Allentown, Stamford, New Haven, Hartford and the Hudson Valley (Hudson, Poughkeepsie etc) in a couple of days if you're creative about it. If you want a good mix of L.A.-style diversity and urban life though, I'd stick to places on major train lines and within reach of other very large cities. That disqualifies Portland, Pittsburgh and Cleveland if you ask me.
ive been to hartford more than few times. thats prob not going to make the cut.
It's not on a major train line, so it would be disqualified under my rules as well. It also still has a very long way to go in terms of downtown vibrancy, maybe not compared to some Midwestern cities, but definitely when compared with Boston, NYC, New Haven, Philly or even Stamford.
New Haven sounds interesting - I think it was profiled in Metropolis a few years back for making some bold moves to bring back a strong urban center? - but I take exception to Philly being described as a "craphole". When I moved there in '95 it was close to that description, but in the last 12 years it has changed immensely. It's super cool now, but not terribly cheap, at least for housing in the walkable downtown core.
Portland has better beer than any other city in the US, bar none. It's all fresh, easily available (like a microbrewery on every other block practically) and made with love. But I don't think housing is inexpensive there, unless you live way the hell out on the east side like my parents have for the last 15 years. But from there you can take MAX light rail into the city for work.
Portland also has a beautiful setting, sandwiched between a river and a lush wooded hill with gorgeous mountains on all horizons beyond. But if we're speaking landscape, Pittsburgh is one of the most dramatically sited cities I've ever seen, and also has a cool downtown cultural scene plus some universites, and is cheap.
"Philly and Cleveland are complete craphole places to live unless you love crime and sitting in traffic jams"
yea, well, you don't know crap about Philly.
anonnyc10003 -
where in philly do you live?
is ortlieb's still around in philly?
man i used to go there all the time.
ive lived in the burbs outside of philly (havertown) 1976-80
and west philly 1991-95.
ive def seen my share of crime when i was there but the traffic i cant imagine could even come close to l.a. besides i hear philly has changed a lot. i liked the fact it felt like a city not some overgrown village. for me thats a big draw.
Yes Ortliebs is still around! In the past year or so they've updated the food and some of the decor. They still have that awkward bathroom though, but considering the quality of jazz that comes out of that place, it can be overlooked...
Back to topic - Although the city itself is an important factor, I would also consider the firms that are in the city. Obviously I don't know what it is like in Cleveland or Portland, but there are plenty of good firms in Philly. In fact, I would say the top two offices I would work for is in Philly even if I could choose from any firm in the country.
yeah that is true, the traffic is absolutely nothing compared to LA. and if you live in the city, why would you be driving that much anyway? i live outside of center city and drive maybe once a week. i am 2 blocks from the subway, it gets me everywhere i need to go
anonnyc, what are you comparing philly traffic to? from what i have experienced here and from what i hear of other cities, its not that bad at all
"Philly and Cleveland are complete craphole places to live unless you love crime and sitting in traffic jams, and Portland is just plain overrated."
yea I hear everyone in cleveland has guns and they all shoot somebody else at least once a week.
if you believe crap like this then you are a total idiot. dont listen to that bull.. let me give you the stats.
i can't say anything negative about anywhere else because im not about to bash some other city.. i am just going to tell you what i know about the city of cleveland.
Downtown Cleveland is absolutely gorgeous. It has everything you want from a downtown, and a great sense of community. Downtown is an incredible neighborhood, yes i said neighborhood, with a LOT to offer. I would urge you to check out this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Cleveland
in 2005 it was rated by the Brookings Institution as one of America's "Emerging Downtowns", due to its 32.2% growth rate from 1990 to 2000 and it has been growing very rapidly ever since.
Yes Cleveland is a very blue-collar city... and if thats what you are looking for then you will be right at home. You can get excellent housing for excellent prices. Oh and I can tell you that even though there might be a lot of breweries in other cities.. there is still GREAT beer available in Cleveland (and i bet its cheaper here, too.. ;)
there is plenty here for any of your tastes.. if you want to hit the bar on a friday night and drink beer with your buds you can do that, as well as take a date out to incredibly upscale restaurants.
buyers housing market, traffic is incredibly good for a downtown, living is inexpensive, great art, booming downtown with a large amount of new projects, and did i mention it is tied with pittsburg as the most livable city in america?
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=97396
I hope cleveland is right for you!
Cleveland also has the spectacularily awesome Great lakes Brewery and Pub. I think the old german brew making tradition lives on still in Clevland. I'm sure portland has quite the brew scene too.
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