I graduated from Sciarc last fall. I did worked as an intern during school for 8 months, and I find this job right away after I graduated. It's a 120 ppl firm in downtown LA.
The problem I have is they switch me around projects a lot, although they did assign me to a project at the beginning. The work they want me to do is mostly coloring elevations, 3D modeling and physical models. I don't like these jobs because I think they are so easy but time consuming. I want to work on more technical stuff that we don't do in school and that's how I can learn. What I hate the most is sometimes I have nothing to do. I am not a workaholic, but I do want my day to be filled with works. I did told the principle this, but he never did anything. It seems like I am the backup for whatever projects that need help when they are busy.
I don't know if this is most graduates experience, but I can tell you I don't like it. Any comments on this? I thought is to find a another job at a smaller office, or should I wait longer?
you're having the typical experience for someone fresh out of school working for a large firm. however, if you excel at the tasks they're giving you, than you'll likely to climb the ladder faster and be given more responsibility (eventually).
otherwise, working for a smaller office may expose you to a variety of tasks and be a more meaningful experience to you.
I would stick it out for at least a year before moving on.
It does sound like a typical beginning intern experience!! The question is: will, through effort on your part, your experience there get better, or will you hit a brick wall if you try? In a large firm (120 is big) thre should be plenty of opportunity to move upward, the problem will be getting people above you to give you the opportunity.
I suggest scheduling another meeting with your direct supervisor and at least one other person above you - a principal ideally, or a manager. The goal of getting two other people in the meeting is they act as witnesses for each other, so if there is no follow through they have to be honest about it.
But! before you schedule this meeting, do some prep work. Talk to lots of other team members, on various projects, telling them you are looking for technical experience and do they have anything you can help them with? The ideal time to do this would be when you are sitting aorund because the rendering you've been assigned is done. If they don't have anything, ask again - do they have redlines? meeting minutes that need review? a door schedule that needs changes? research into product info? Especially pose these questions to people you know are busy with a looming deadline. As you render, keep your headphones off and listen to what's happening in the office so you know which people are likely to need help.
The goal of this asking around is to make you familiar with how you can help. Even if you don't get handed any work - for example, if someone tells you they have a stack of shop drawings that need reviewing but they don't have time to show you how to do it - you will be arming yourself with suggested ways to be useful to the team(s). Make a list of all the things you find out need doing, even if you can't do them, and then schedule that meeting with your supervisor. Show them how the team(s) need help and make them aware that if someone spends a few minutes of their time showing you how to help, you are eager to do it.
If you do a concerted, documented effort to move beyond rendering/modeling and after 3-6 montsh there is still no progress, then it's time to move on to a new job. But then you'll have a document of your reasons for leaving, and the old firm should be able to be gracious about it - and give you a good recommendation.
Thank you for all of your commons. I got off work today and felt very bad, and your words make me feel much better. I am looking for a way to make it better, and I know I have to be patient and proactive.
How my firm works is there is a principle guy assigns everybody what to do. Usually if he said so or the project manager asked so, I don't get to ask people around from the other team and choose what I want to do.
I am very confident that I can do my job well to make everyone feel satisfied. Setting up meeting with principles and request for what I want feels like it is forcing them to give me responsibilities. I think I should do my best asking for work and do my best, until they finally can give me something more important. If not, I will have to change the job.
I do feel like a small office is a better environment. My intern was in a small office. At least I can be involved in a project meeting and listen to what is going on. Unlike this big firm, I don't get to sit in the meeting at all. There will be a guy come and tell me the decisions they made in the meeting sometimes if it is related to what I worked on, but I feel left out all the time. Trust me, it is not a good feeling.
I wonder if there is a short cut to learn what I have to learn, which are the CD DD experience, and finally get to be part of the design team that contribute to the design of a project using my talent eventually... Yes, I need some good luck, we all do.
larger offices unfortunately need to be organised very well to ensure everyone is used according to abilities. there are not many offices like that, and in end if they are large enough not only inefficiencies as a result of management but politics becomes part of the game...which makes life a bit hard for someone starting on the bottom and working out how to fit in. but it will happen, given time. LB gives good advice.
small offices are great. my internship was in small office. first job was to design church. 2nd job was interior elevations for housing project, 3rd job did structural steel dwgs for elementary school, etc etc. renderings and models were not part of the workflow except as design tool for self...was amazing learning experience...and i think only possible in the small office setting. that is part of the deal with office size from what i can tell.
on other hand, it is useful to have some perspective. you are a graduate architect and unless you have worked full time for a few years there is an awful lot you don't know yet. it will take some time before the people will feel confident you can do the basic stuff. design is after all such a very small part of the archi-biz...and even when it is all you do the experience required to do it well is not a small thing...
sorta sucks though. to get through school and be in position of knowing enough to graduate and do all the work that entails then suddenly realise you have only moved to the bottom of a new hill to climb...good practice for life though.
: you're not going to enjoy this comment, but you've gotta greatly improve your communication skills, man.
presumably, your verbal skills are comparable to your writing. there are a lot of rough edges there - in my experience, teaching somebody the technical knowledge you seek takes a lot of two-way communication. when people are busy, it's easy to dismiss or ignore staff who don't handle english well - it's just too hard, especially when there are other people available.
You do end up getting more responsibility down the stretch. Try not to let any of this discourage you because it will only make your days at work feel miserable. It doesn't really get a whole lot better that quickly either
I still feel extremely underutilized.
Before it was all making 3d models, coloring elevations, producing schematic design sketches, and that type of stuff. Now it's all about creating reflected ceiling plans, creating sheet files, labeling details, and really dry stuff like that. But the nice thing is that it's enough work to get you through a day. But the underutilization still stands.
i am foreign resident in land where english is just not spoken ANYWHERE at all, and until i learned to speak japanese properly people treated me like a moron. i spoke like one so the assumption was slightly reasonable. it isn't fair but it is a very real and insiduously subtle barrier. language with humans is very impt indicator of social status and intelligence. speak well and you will climb ladder faster, just same as handsome/attractive people will get jobs faster and for more pay than the ugly folks...on average.
mind you i am often enough slightly stupid regardless of language...
I've used IDP items in the past as a way to make sure that I am gaining experience in certain areas. I would schedule a review every few months to point out "according to NCARB, I should now be getting experience in this area." It has helped somewhat, but I still don't have enough experience in construction admin.
i think the general misconception that school teaches kids coming out is that they're going to get thrown into the deep end of the pool right away...
unless you're lucky you're not going to be designing right away...noone's going to trust an intern to do CA and there's no real upside in bringing one to a project meeting...at least if you're thinking in terms of money. it's potentially worth it in terms of experience...personally i wouldn't push for going to project meetings..i'd push for site visits of projects under construction...far more valuable as a learning experience imo. it's a simple fact of life that project meetings are going to be handled by people responsible for the project and that they will disseminate the information. i've been in the profession for 12 years..and i'd rather do a site visit or sit and draw most days. it is nice being in charge, but along with that comes ALOT of paperwork that you'll probably also be unhappy with.
but really...there will be plenty of time for project meetings and CA and such down the road...don't interns realize that meetings are typically incredibly mundane?
i think what the larger firm is doing is what's fairly typical...at least for the first year or so you probably should be getting thrown around the office to work on a number of different projects to get your feet wet and to see what's going on in the office. eventually it'd be good to get you on a single project team.
as far as moving to a smaller office....i think it could work both ways. yes you do get more experience potentially..but there's still hierarchy..i've worked in firms of 140, 200, 14, 250, 7 and currently i'm in an office of 5. And in my experience no matter where you are younger staff is going to get less responsibility until they prove themselves.
i also do agree slightly with file and jump...until his english improves it would be difficult to put him in charge of any kind of written or verbal communication with a client.
"I did worked as an intern during school ..." "I thought is to find a another job ..." "Thank you for all of your commons..." "There will be a guy come and tell me the decisions ...
Should I go on ... ?
Look, I'm not criticizing the guy's english language skills ... I'm sure they're much better than any of my foreign language skills.
However, I am pointing out that his language skills probably are holding him back in this particular job in this particular environment. I work (effectively) with quite a few foreign nationals and that experience has taught me that "average ability + strong language skills" almost always trumps "great ability + poor language skills". It's about human nature, not necessarily fairness.
If you want more responsibility, learn to communicate effectively and easily with those who work around you. If you don't, they will promote others who communincate well but who may not know as much or have as much talent. It's about being effective.
And, if you choose to work in an environment where your native tongue does not predominate, it's not "their" problem -- it's "yours".
Sorry. I didn't realize it was a language issue. I thought you meant that his overall communication was the reason he wasn't making use out of his work days. I understand what you mean now and I guess I agree in a way.
English wasn't my first language but I also grew up in the US where I MADE it my first language (I still know and speak my mother tongue) and since my day-to-day dealing are all in English, that is the language that I choose to develop further as my professional language.
That said, besides for the first major howler ('common' instead of 'comment'), Liruo didn't do THAT bad. I've seen far worse where translators had to be called in.
-- isn't that a real part of the issue that file and jump are addressing?
In our field, moving up in a firm typically is made possible by establishing credibility across a broad front. How many guys have you seen promoted when the last roof flashing detail they drew "wasn't THAT bad" ?
larslarson is right that going to site visits is far more educational, at first, than meetings. At a site visit you can make notes while the higher up points out problems/issues/ things that need to be dealt with.
And toasteroven makes a good point with bringing up IDP - remind the higher ups at your firm that they *do* have a professional responsibility to be providing you with an educational internship experience, whether their corporate structure provides for it or not.
My own experience is in smaller firms, and in retrospect the baptism by fire of being thrown into more responsibility than I was ready for was a good thing for me. Maybe not good for the bottom line of the project though!
Yeah being a person in a relatively early experience level myself (I confess), meetings are kind of a drag and the company is better off having you produce drawings rather than doing meeting minutes in an otherwise uninformative meeting.
Right now I'm working on a rather uninspiring project but am picking up all of my required IDP units out of it. But it's the experience I'm after and I'm learning a lot from this experience.
LB..
i was thinkin more just seeing construction and seeing how things are actually built...verse what was drawn...often not one in the same.
it's also fairly rewarding to walk around and see your drawings become reality...but i've always preferred the construction side...i think about goin over to that side quite often...i've always preferred fabricating to sitting in front of the computer....of course i don't truly love the other headaches that come with construction..but that's another thing.
I actually agree with file and many others about my bad English skill. I need more vocabs and better grammar. I know my sentence structure is weird too. My argument is, although my English is not very pleasing, people can still communicate with me and I understand them perfectly. My thought is English does become a problem before you prove yourself, and it is not a problem after you proved yourself.
This proving myself part of life drives me crazy too. I have choices. I can choose to go back to my native country where I can communicate better and fit in better. I can choose to do another major which does not require too much skills of almost everything. But I choose to stay in the US, working with Architecture. Isn't this is the only way to improve myself. I can not just run away from my weakness.
I terms of work, signing up for IDP is a great idea. There are just too much things that I don't know. It is not like they are difficult to understand, but I never reach out to them.
At the end, I have to correct everybody, that I am not a guy (or him). Does this make my problem more complicated?
You should definitely do IDP. I know people are constantly complaining about it, but the handbook does have some very useful information and is a great resource to make sure management is doing their job. I see too many interns sitting around and not taking initiative with their own career, and then complain that they aren't getting good experience.
But the fact is that most interns don't know what kinds of experience they should be getting, and how to fight for it. IDP is, unfortunately, one of the few tools we have at our disposal to make sure we are getting adequate training.
take initiative and greater responsibility/involvement will follow. If you expect everything to be handed to you, the only thing you'll get is fired.
the key is to find something that you want and that nobody else in the office is doing, then become the expert (and don't expert to become an expert overnight).
So learn up on IDP and talk to your supervisor about your goals. Go to every lunch-n-learn and start asking intelligent questions to the rep. If you like materials, figure out masterspec and seek CSI certification/start helping organize the materials library. If you're green, take the LEED-AP exam. If nobody does interiors in the office, then become the master of softgoods or lighting. Give a presentation on your thesis or some of your technical studies coursework. And so on...
JUST DON"T EXPECT FIRM MANAGEMENT TO PUSH YOU UP THE LADDER WITHOUT ANY EFFORT ON YOUR PART.
another issue not discussed as a non-native english speaker, is your work permit status. some offices won't promote a temporary visa holder or invest in professional development for somebody that will be leaving after a short period.
being a women should not be an issue in this day and age. If it is, then your firm is sick and you're better off leaving or hiring a lawyer.
"But the fact is that most interns don't know what kinds of experience they should be getting"
Indeed. This could be a thread in itself. Maybe those with more experience can enlighten me - what kind of experience should we interns be looking for, exactly?
According to IDP, construction documents are by far the most important phase. But there has to be more to internship than picking up redlines...right?
"construction documents" are way more than "picking up redlines" -- what you're trying to learn during this period are the complexities of how a building of a certain design goes together. hopefully, you'll be working under someone who will take the time to explain those complexities to you in some detail and why it's so vitally important - to the building and to the client and to the user and to your firm - that you get it right in the fewest possible tries.
if you're just laying back and letting somebody hand down redlines to you, you're probably not learning very much and it's probably boring as hell ... what you've got to do is exercise some intiative to generate your own work ... ask for basic guidance on how to get started, but think it through and develop it yourself to the best of your ability ... then ask the more senior person to look it over and give you a critique ... and, listen to both what you need to change and why.
being a she is not an issue in north america. or shouldn't be. here in japan it would mean you have to work even harder to be treated as equal.
the language thing is not insurmountable. it is something i struggle with every day so totally feel for you.
when it comes to architecture i can talk pretty well, and can read and write well enough to do the dwgs and contracts...but there are times when the words fail me and i come off as dumbarello...yesterday i took daughter to day care and was speaking with her teacher...she brought up something i have never heard before and i totally misunderstood what she said. she really does think i am mentally incompetent now...which to me is funny... i don't care...my wife and i both laughed when she asked me if i could speak japanese? and do i understand her? in this totally condescending voice. 22 year old little punk. it really was cute, in a way. i had my wife explain me the word i didn't get, so were set...but if it were a work setting i think it would be totally different story. lanuage counts.
anyway, if you are going to stay in merica start the idp asap. it will be good guide for what you need to start learning. and do what LB says. she is always right, archinects own athena that she is...
liruo, try to have a mentor or someone more senior to look out for you.
i recently had a young graduate joining the office and specifically assigned to my team. he's young and fresh, and very enthusiastic with every task, basically gets things done, which is great. but as someone who's been there, i want to encourage him to have his own ideas and opinions, communicate those ideas, ask questions, do not just DO things as instructed amidst the looming deadlines and deliveries.
let your team leader know that you would like to have more professional responsibilities; remember, nothing is too big or too small to handle. you'd be surprised at how much communication means and how simple it is to be given the opportunities to learn.
Apr 16, 08 9:18 am ·
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My concern with my job
I graduated from Sciarc last fall. I did worked as an intern during school for 8 months, and I find this job right away after I graduated. It's a 120 ppl firm in downtown LA.
The problem I have is they switch me around projects a lot, although they did assign me to a project at the beginning. The work they want me to do is mostly coloring elevations, 3D modeling and physical models. I don't like these jobs because I think they are so easy but time consuming. I want to work on more technical stuff that we don't do in school and that's how I can learn. What I hate the most is sometimes I have nothing to do. I am not a workaholic, but I do want my day to be filled with works. I did told the principle this, but he never did anything. It seems like I am the backup for whatever projects that need help when they are busy.
I don't know if this is most graduates experience, but I can tell you I don't like it. Any comments on this? I thought is to find a another job at a smaller office, or should I wait longer?
Welcome to the club man.
suck it up buttercup...
you're having the typical experience for someone fresh out of school working for a large firm. however, if you excel at the tasks they're giving you, than you'll likely to climb the ladder faster and be given more responsibility (eventually).
otherwise, working for a smaller office may expose you to a variety of tasks and be a more meaningful experience to you.
I would stick it out for at least a year before moving on.
It does sound like a typical beginning intern experience!! The question is: will, through effort on your part, your experience there get better, or will you hit a brick wall if you try? In a large firm (120 is big) thre should be plenty of opportunity to move upward, the problem will be getting people above you to give you the opportunity.
I suggest scheduling another meeting with your direct supervisor and at least one other person above you - a principal ideally, or a manager. The goal of getting two other people in the meeting is they act as witnesses for each other, so if there is no follow through they have to be honest about it.
But! before you schedule this meeting, do some prep work. Talk to lots of other team members, on various projects, telling them you are looking for technical experience and do they have anything you can help them with? The ideal time to do this would be when you are sitting aorund because the rendering you've been assigned is done. If they don't have anything, ask again - do they have redlines? meeting minutes that need review? a door schedule that needs changes? research into product info? Especially pose these questions to people you know are busy with a looming deadline. As you render, keep your headphones off and listen to what's happening in the office so you know which people are likely to need help.
The goal of this asking around is to make you familiar with how you can help. Even if you don't get handed any work - for example, if someone tells you they have a stack of shop drawings that need reviewing but they don't have time to show you how to do it - you will be arming yourself with suggested ways to be useful to the team(s). Make a list of all the things you find out need doing, even if you can't do them, and then schedule that meeting with your supervisor. Show them how the team(s) need help and make them aware that if someone spends a few minutes of their time showing you how to help, you are eager to do it.
If you do a concerted, documented effort to move beyond rendering/modeling and after 3-6 montsh there is still no progress, then it's time to move on to a new job. But then you'll have a document of your reasons for leaving, and the old firm should be able to be gracious about it - and give you a good recommendation.
Good luck.
Thank you for all of your commons. I got off work today and felt very bad, and your words make me feel much better. I am looking for a way to make it better, and I know I have to be patient and proactive.
How my firm works is there is a principle guy assigns everybody what to do. Usually if he said so or the project manager asked so, I don't get to ask people around from the other team and choose what I want to do.
I am very confident that I can do my job well to make everyone feel satisfied. Setting up meeting with principles and request for what I want feels like it is forcing them to give me responsibilities. I think I should do my best asking for work and do my best, until they finally can give me something more important. If not, I will have to change the job.
I do feel like a small office is a better environment. My intern was in a small office. At least I can be involved in a project meeting and listen to what is going on. Unlike this big firm, I don't get to sit in the meeting at all. There will be a guy come and tell me the decisions they made in the meeting sometimes if it is related to what I worked on, but I feel left out all the time. Trust me, it is not a good feeling.
I wonder if there is a short cut to learn what I have to learn, which are the CD DD experience, and finally get to be part of the design team that contribute to the design of a project using my talent eventually... Yes, I need some good luck, we all do.
larger offices unfortunately need to be organised very well to ensure everyone is used according to abilities. there are not many offices like that, and in end if they are large enough not only inefficiencies as a result of management but politics becomes part of the game...which makes life a bit hard for someone starting on the bottom and working out how to fit in. but it will happen, given time. LB gives good advice.
small offices are great. my internship was in small office. first job was to design church. 2nd job was interior elevations for housing project, 3rd job did structural steel dwgs for elementary school, etc etc. renderings and models were not part of the workflow except as design tool for self...was amazing learning experience...and i think only possible in the small office setting. that is part of the deal with office size from what i can tell.
on other hand, it is useful to have some perspective. you are a graduate architect and unless you have worked full time for a few years there is an awful lot you don't know yet. it will take some time before the people will feel confident you can do the basic stuff. design is after all such a very small part of the archi-biz...and even when it is all you do the experience required to do it well is not a small thing...
sorta sucks though. to get through school and be in position of knowing enough to graduate and do all the work that entails then suddenly realise you have only moved to the bottom of a new hill to climb...good practice for life though.
: you're not going to enjoy this comment, but you've gotta greatly improve your communication skills, man.
presumably, your verbal skills are comparable to your writing. there are a lot of rough edges there - in my experience, teaching somebody the technical knowledge you seek takes a lot of two-way communication. when people are busy, it's easy to dismiss or ignore staff who don't handle english well - it's just too hard, especially when there are other people available.
good luck
You do end up getting more responsibility down the stretch. Try not to let any of this discourage you because it will only make your days at work feel miserable. It doesn't really get a whole lot better that quickly either
I still feel extremely underutilized.
Before it was all making 3d models, coloring elevations, producing schematic design sketches, and that type of stuff. Now it's all about creating reflected ceiling plans, creating sheet files, labeling details, and really dry stuff like that. But the nice thing is that it's enough work to get you through a day. But the underutilization still stands.
file, what are you TALKING about?
nah, file is totally right.
i am foreign resident in land where english is just not spoken ANYWHERE at all, and until i learned to speak japanese properly people treated me like a moron. i spoke like one so the assumption was slightly reasonable. it isn't fair but it is a very real and insiduously subtle barrier. language with humans is very impt indicator of social status and intelligence. speak well and you will climb ladder faster, just same as handsome/attractive people will get jobs faster and for more pay than the ugly folks...on average.
mind you i am often enough slightly stupid regardless of language...
I've used IDP items in the past as a way to make sure that I am gaining experience in certain areas. I would schedule a review every few months to point out "according to NCARB, I should now be getting experience in this area." It has helped somewhat, but I still don't have enough experience in construction admin.
i think the general misconception that school teaches kids coming out is that they're going to get thrown into the deep end of the pool right away...
unless you're lucky you're not going to be designing right away...noone's going to trust an intern to do CA and there's no real upside in bringing one to a project meeting...at least if you're thinking in terms of money. it's potentially worth it in terms of experience...personally i wouldn't push for going to project meetings..i'd push for site visits of projects under construction...far more valuable as a learning experience imo. it's a simple fact of life that project meetings are going to be handled by people responsible for the project and that they will disseminate the information. i've been in the profession for 12 years..and i'd rather do a site visit or sit and draw most days. it is nice being in charge, but along with that comes ALOT of paperwork that you'll probably also be unhappy with.
but really...there will be plenty of time for project meetings and CA and such down the road...don't interns realize that meetings are typically incredibly mundane?
i think what the larger firm is doing is what's fairly typical...at least for the first year or so you probably should be getting thrown around the office to work on a number of different projects to get your feet wet and to see what's going on in the office. eventually it'd be good to get you on a single project team.
as far as moving to a smaller office....i think it could work both ways. yes you do get more experience potentially..but there's still hierarchy..i've worked in firms of 140, 200, 14, 250, 7 and currently i'm in an office of 5. And in my experience no matter where you are younger staff is going to get less responsibility until they prove themselves.
i also do agree slightly with file and jump...until his english improves it would be difficult to put him in charge of any kind of written or verbal communication with a client.
"I thought is to find a another job ..."
"Thank you for all of your commons..."
"There will be a guy come and tell me the decisions ...
Should I go on ... ?
Look, I'm not criticizing the guy's english language skills ... I'm sure they're much better than any of my foreign language skills.
However, I am pointing out that his language skills probably are holding him back in this particular job in this particular environment. I work (effectively) with quite a few foreign nationals and that experience has taught me that "average ability + strong language skills" almost always trumps "great ability + poor language skills". It's about human nature, not necessarily fairness.
If you want more responsibility, learn to communicate effectively and easily with those who work around you. If you don't, they will promote others who communincate well but who may not know as much or have as much talent. It's about being effective.
And, if you choose to work in an environment where your native tongue does not predominate, it's not "their" problem -- it's "yours".
Sorry. I didn't realize it was a language issue. I thought you meant that his overall communication was the reason he wasn't making use out of his work days. I understand what you mean now and I guess I agree in a way.
English wasn't my first language but I also grew up in the US where I MADE it my first language (I still know and speak my mother tongue) and since my day-to-day dealing are all in English, that is the language that I choose to develop further as my professional language.
That said, besides for the first major howler ('common' instead of 'comment'), Liruo didn't do THAT bad. I've seen far worse where translators had to be called in.
-- isn't that a real part of the issue that file and jump are addressing?
In our field, moving up in a firm typically is made possible by establishing credibility across a broad front. How many guys have you seen promoted when the last roof flashing detail they drew "wasn't THAT bad" ?
would file fire a dyslexic frank gehry? inquiring minds want to know!
larslarson is right that going to site visits is far more educational, at first, than meetings. At a site visit you can make notes while the higher up points out problems/issues/ things that need to be dealt with.
And toasteroven makes a good point with bringing up IDP - remind the higher ups at your firm that they *do* have a professional responsibility to be providing you with an educational internship experience, whether their corporate structure provides for it or not.
My own experience is in smaller firms, and in retrospect the baptism by fire of being thrown into more responsibility than I was ready for was a good thing for me. Maybe not good for the bottom line of the project though!
Yeah being a person in a relatively early experience level myself (I confess), meetings are kind of a drag and the company is better off having you produce drawings rather than doing meeting minutes in an otherwise uninformative meeting.
Right now I'm working on a rather uninspiring project but am picking up all of my required IDP units out of it. But it's the experience I'm after and I'm learning a lot from this experience.
LB..
i was thinkin more just seeing construction and seeing how things are actually built...verse what was drawn...often not one in the same.
it's also fairly rewarding to walk around and see your drawings become reality...but i've always preferred the construction side...i think about goin over to that side quite often...i've always preferred fabricating to sitting in front of the computer....of course i don't truly love the other headaches that come with construction..but that's another thing.
I actually agree with file and many others about my bad English skill. I need more vocabs and better grammar. I know my sentence structure is weird too. My argument is, although my English is not very pleasing, people can still communicate with me and I understand them perfectly. My thought is English does become a problem before you prove yourself, and it is not a problem after you proved yourself.
This proving myself part of life drives me crazy too. I have choices. I can choose to go back to my native country where I can communicate better and fit in better. I can choose to do another major which does not require too much skills of almost everything. But I choose to stay in the US, working with Architecture. Isn't this is the only way to improve myself. I can not just run away from my weakness.
I terms of work, signing up for IDP is a great idea. There are just too much things that I don't know. It is not like they are difficult to understand, but I never reach out to them.
At the end, I have to correct everybody, that I am not a guy (or him). Does this make my problem more complicated?
babs, you should maybe be a little more smug. That wasn't evident enough.
You should definitely do IDP. I know people are constantly complaining about it, but the handbook does have some very useful information and is a great resource to make sure management is doing their job. I see too many interns sitting around and not taking initiative with their own career, and then complain that they aren't getting good experience.
But the fact is that most interns don't know what kinds of experience they should be getting, and how to fight for it. IDP is, unfortunately, one of the few tools we have at our disposal to make sure we are getting adequate training.
take initiative and greater responsibility/involvement will follow. If you expect everything to be handed to you, the only thing you'll get is fired.
the key is to find something that you want and that nobody else in the office is doing, then become the expert (and don't expert to become an expert overnight).
So learn up on IDP and talk to your supervisor about your goals. Go to every lunch-n-learn and start asking intelligent questions to the rep. If you like materials, figure out masterspec and seek CSI certification/start helping organize the materials library. If you're green, take the LEED-AP exam. If nobody does interiors in the office, then become the master of softgoods or lighting. Give a presentation on your thesis or some of your technical studies coursework. And so on...
JUST DON"T EXPECT FIRM MANAGEMENT TO PUSH YOU UP THE LADDER WITHOUT ANY EFFORT ON YOUR PART.
another issue not discussed as a non-native english speaker, is your work permit status. some offices won't promote a temporary visa holder or invest in professional development for somebody that will be leaving after a short period.
being a women should not be an issue in this day and age. If it is, then your firm is sick and you're better off leaving or hiring a lawyer.
good luck with taking control of your own career.
"But the fact is that most interns don't know what kinds of experience they should be getting"
Indeed. This could be a thread in itself. Maybe those with more experience can enlighten me - what kind of experience should we interns be looking for, exactly?
According to IDP, construction documents are by far the most important phase. But there has to be more to internship than picking up redlines...right?
"construction documents" are way more than "picking up redlines" -- what you're trying to learn during this period are the complexities of how a building of a certain design goes together. hopefully, you'll be working under someone who will take the time to explain those complexities to you in some detail and why it's so vitally important - to the building and to the client and to the user and to your firm - that you get it right in the fewest possible tries.
if you're just laying back and letting somebody hand down redlines to you, you're probably not learning very much and it's probably boring as hell ... what you've got to do is exercise some intiative to generate your own work ... ask for basic guidance on how to get started, but think it through and develop it yourself to the best of your ability ... then ask the more senior person to look it over and give you a critique ... and, listen to both what you need to change and why.
being a she is not an issue in north america. or shouldn't be. here in japan it would mean you have to work even harder to be treated as equal.
the language thing is not insurmountable. it is something i struggle with every day so totally feel for you.
when it comes to architecture i can talk pretty well, and can read and write well enough to do the dwgs and contracts...but there are times when the words fail me and i come off as dumbarello...yesterday i took daughter to day care and was speaking with her teacher...she brought up something i have never heard before and i totally misunderstood what she said. she really does think i am mentally incompetent now...which to me is funny... i don't care...my wife and i both laughed when she asked me if i could speak japanese? and do i understand her? in this totally condescending voice. 22 year old little punk. it really was cute, in a way. i had my wife explain me the word i didn't get, so were set...but if it were a work setting i think it would be totally different story. lanuage counts.
anyway, if you are going to stay in merica start the idp asap. it will be good guide for what you need to start learning. and do what LB says. she is always right, archinects own athena that she is...
at least they arent sending you to the building department...
liruo, try to have a mentor or someone more senior to look out for you.
i recently had a young graduate joining the office and specifically assigned to my team. he's young and fresh, and very enthusiastic with every task, basically gets things done, which is great. but as someone who's been there, i want to encourage him to have his own ideas and opinions, communicate those ideas, ask questions, do not just DO things as instructed amidst the looming deadlines and deliveries.
let your team leader know that you would like to have more professional responsibilities; remember, nothing is too big or too small to handle. you'd be surprised at how much communication means and how simple it is to be given the opportunities to learn.
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