Discrimination at work can mean a lot and has come a long way. So this questions goes out to all you fellow Archinect readers. Can you be fired from your firm for speaking spanish at work? Or any other language other than English. Can your employer make demand you to stop conversing in a foriegn language because other employeres can understand it? Here's my scenario; at our design / build firm, we are only 6 for in the Architectural dept. 3 caucasion & 3 of hispanic descent or backgrounds. We're split in 2 groups and as you know it. Bilinguals w/ eachother and the rest together. So when we talk or joke around we speak spanish, spanglish or mix. Some others have been offended & complained becuase they don't understand us. Is it our fault? Should we stop? Isn't it our right to speak frealy and our language? Is there a legal problem here? What do you think...
Very good question. You'd think you would have a right to converse in whatever language you want and it would be no big deal. That said, if the bosses only speak English, they may feel threatened by you speaking another language because they don't understand what you're saying - and if you're communicating about projects, the boss probably wants to know what you guys are talking about and it's hard if it's not in his language.
here's an idea. why don't you NOT split up into your own separate cliques and talk to each other. this problem has nothing to do with discrimination--just you and your colleagues unable to play in the same sandbox. if you actually tried to become friends with them, they would have absolutely no problem with you speaking spanish. seriously, this goes way back into the things you learn in kindergarten. and god help you if you make this a litigious issue. so tired of these chicken s* lawsuits.
i think out of courtesy to others, you might consider speaking in a language that everybody understands in the small office you are working. why create divisions in a small office?
plus, it might be interpreted as you are talking about things that has nothing to do with work. if you say you are talking about work, then the others should know what's going on too.
how would you feel if your office hired three more people speaking a language you don't understand and they converse all the time about work and private business?
there is nothing wrong if you speak your language in your brake or lunch or outside of the office if it is not a job site visit.
three things i don't like in the work environment;
listening music
people using ear phones
gambling/playing horses
I don't think they feel threatened, they probably just think that you should learn the frigging native language and speak it clearly and professionally while they are paying your salary. Maybe the gringoes should pay you in pesos if you have a problem assimilating?
however, poczatek, he clearly knows the language, so it's not an issue of assimilation.
it's a cultural thing. when i'm around other spanish-speaking friends (even though we're all bilingual, and english is our first language) we joke around and speak in spanish.
oh, and nobody says gringo anymore.
we say gabachos, which is not meant as an offensive term, just our slang word for anglos.
I might be jaded, but I say go ahead and speak what ever language you want. The way I look at it is that Gringos....are just lazy when it
comes to learning languages, myself included. My wife Brazilian speaks and reads in five languages. So it is always a bit distracting
walking down the street with her in NYC....cause she understands most of what is being spoken on the Street. I think you have to use your good judgement and hopefully everyone else will go to night school and learn some spanish.
I worked in an office in Boston years ago which was a heavily MIT dominated Office. A Jewish American Partner, a Portugese Partner,
a Lativian Partner. The staff consisted of a Bulgarian, a Columbian, two Lativians and sometime three, three chinese, a turk, a Thai, and
four gringos. We had great times. Lots of languages were spoken, lots of things were missed.
I always recall one of the Chinese was a woman named Carol, She was a hot tottie from California. There would always be calls forwarded to her from the front office and when she would answer, the caller would 90 percent of the time ask her if she could speak to Carol....thinking Carol was a guy. She would always give them an earful and we would all chuckle. She was tall and attractive, always dressed conservatively in slacks. After her and her husband decided they were going to return to California for Greener Pastures she came into the office to say good bye dressed in a hot black mini skirt and tube top. There were alot of tongues hanging out as she was drop dead gorgous. We knew we were going to miss her presence as a designer and as a good person who put things in a good perspective.
So I would say just check to be sure the Gringos.....are comfortable with you speaking Spanish. If they are like me who speaks very little Portugese, you might be surprized at how much they understand. I know when my wife is speaking I can most of the time tell what the tone of the conversation is and ususally what it pretains to. However as I say I get shy and speak very little and usually mess up enough that Brazilians will try out their english on me.
i think its just that people want to feel 'in on the joke'/'a part of the group' etc etc..
if you can make it clear youre not talking about them behind their back and patch up the relationship between your two groups im sure talking in whatever language shouldnt be a really big problem
If everybody can speak english, then why not. You are in an office which is highly dependent on ease of communication, so speaking spanish is hardly helping the situation.
Everyone is right and I do agree that it might feel awkward but we aren't talking behind everyones back. They do understand a little spanish. About the grouping thing between us, we didn't decide to be a team. The main heads did that and our projects are about the same just different companies. In our heritage we joke around a lot. We use both English and spanish. How hard is it for them to just ask what some words mean. If they feel offended. Would they feel offended if they were told to not speak English? Would you? I was hired knowing I can speak four languages. English since I was born here. Spanish since it's my heritage and Mandarin & Japanese because I wanted to learn a new language.
I guess some people try. I can only imagine how California would be in about 20 years w/ the language barrier. Since there are so many ethnicities. Which language would be banned then? Only time will tell...
This is in a sense a question of the hen and the egg. What came first, the group division or you guys speaking spanish?
Sure, there is a formal grouping since you are working on different projects, but you guys speaking a different language within your group is not going to make the non-spanish speaking employees feel invited or welcome.
I would say it is probably legal for you to speak whatever language you want. However, you are not really helping the office atmosphere for the others, actively excluding them in such a way.
MAD7: "How hard is it for them to just ask what some words mean."
You can put the onus on them, but that is just a way for you to feel better about creating a worse work atmosphere and dividing the office.
This isn't discrimination and it really doesn't sound like it has anything to do with bilinguality (yes, an invented word). It's simply that people are getting frustrated because they feel like they aren't being kept in the loop, and that's a crucial aspect of any office.
MAD7, here's the thing. Everybody in the office can speak english just fine so in order to create an environment conductive to a synergistic approach everyone in the office needs to speak the same language, even if they aren't 100% competent in it. People feel isolated when one half of the office is speaking a language they don't understand, yet they know they other side of the office can speak a language they do understand. If the tables were turned how would you feel? Its an asshole move, plain and simple. Joke around in english and let the other half of the office in on the joke, plain and simple. Unless your saying racist, offensive, poder a la raza things, in which case keep that stuff at home. Its courtesy, not racism.
...isn't there an assumption that the higher ups don't speak spanish? what if they do and hid that fact, and know hear what is being said and don't like it? i've seen that happen many times.
I don't think it's discrimination at all. I speak another language which is of my own ethnicity, and I myself hate it when people speak other languages in front of me especially when we are more than able to communicate in the same language. It instantly assumes that they are conversing about something that they don't want you to hear.
Your people are simply asking you not to be rude and exclusionary which is exactly what you're being.
I feel its rude. This is an english-based country and if everyone understands and speaks english very well, then why is it necessary to switch to your own language at all when working with non-bilingual co-workers. It's very exclusionary and can be offensive.
I wouldnt care - but thats me- I liked learning spanglish on const. sites.
I feel one strange form of discrimination Ive seen recently is large corporate firms who want the appearance of being more international hiring forign grads to boost their forign born, global image even though they have these folks doing toilet stalls, parking lay outs etc. - I ve often wondered what theyre hired for if theyre not going to be used for their language skills on the job management team, and not really stick around. There is a homegrown kid who just might know something despite being so obviously domestic and uninteresting.
Several German companies (such as Deutsche Bank and DaimlerChrysler) introduced English as the official language. This enabled them to recruit international management talent.
In a professional environment it is appropriate to speak the language everyone understands or that set as company standard. Only when required should you use any other language, such as when a client or business partner doesn't speak that language.
The fact that more people from non-English speaking backgrounds are multi-lingual than English speaking backgrounds is a different subject.
B/c it's such a small office, I think it might be best to keep the Spanish to a minimum for the same reasons made people here posted. No matter, what it DOES foster a divisive environment.
As far I know, speaking a different language at work is not a crime. Unfortunately, because it is not your firm, the boss can probably make a decision that your Spanish speaking would go under the category of "inappropriate language." So it could potentially affect your career. It's all about the paranoia of the the corporate culture. Your boss must know everything about you because in theory, everything about an employee contributes to his productivity. It ain't right, it's corporate America.
As a side note I don't think speaking Spanish around those who don't speak it is wrong. If you're not talking to them, then it doesn't matter anyway! I think it's dangerous to make people speak the "dominant language." Who are you and I to decide what the American language of choice should be.
Did the Native Americans speak English before the settlers got here? If we are all created equal, then our cultures are created equally also. So ideally,
you shouldn't have to conform so that the ignorance of others is furthered.
Good luck!
the comparison of wearing pants to speaking English, be it in jest, is scary.
Its says this:
running around naked and being a barbarian =speaking the language of your choice
wearing pants and being civilized= speaking English
sounds like the undertones of white supremacy to me.
not saying it is but it sounds like it.
of course I'm sure it's just sarcasm and I'm being too sensitive.
Speaking English around your boss is not a health issue.
Wearing pants is.
running around naked and being a barbarian =speaking the language of your choice
wearing pants and being civilized= speaking English
sounds like the undertones of white supremacy to me.
not saying it is but it sounds like it.
of course I'm sure it's just sarcasm and I'm being too sensitive.
white supremacy? yes you're being too sensitive
no pants is not a crime!
Apr 4, 08 2:50 pm ·
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Discrimination at work
Discrimination at work can mean a lot and has come a long way. So this questions goes out to all you fellow Archinect readers. Can you be fired from your firm for speaking spanish at work? Or any other language other than English. Can your employer make demand you to stop conversing in a foriegn language because other employeres can understand it? Here's my scenario; at our design / build firm, we are only 6 for in the Architectural dept. 3 caucasion & 3 of hispanic descent or backgrounds. We're split in 2 groups and as you know it. Bilinguals w/ eachother and the rest together. So when we talk or joke around we speak spanish, spanglish or mix. Some others have been offended & complained becuase they don't understand us. Is it our fault? Should we stop? Isn't it our right to speak frealy and our language? Is there a legal problem here? What do you think...
Very good question. You'd think you would have a right to converse in whatever language you want and it would be no big deal. That said, if the bosses only speak English, they may feel threatened by you speaking another language because they don't understand what you're saying - and if you're communicating about projects, the boss probably wants to know what you guys are talking about and it's hard if it's not in his language.
here's an idea. why don't you NOT split up into your own separate cliques and talk to each other. this problem has nothing to do with discrimination--just you and your colleagues unable to play in the same sandbox. if you actually tried to become friends with them, they would have absolutely no problem with you speaking spanish. seriously, this goes way back into the things you learn in kindergarten. and god help you if you make this a litigious issue. so tired of these chicken s* lawsuits.
they spoke german in my kindergarten...
i think out of courtesy to others, you might consider speaking in a language that everybody understands in the small office you are working. why create divisions in a small office?
plus, it might be interpreted as you are talking about things that has nothing to do with work. if you say you are talking about work, then the others should know what's going on too.
how would you feel if your office hired three more people speaking a language you don't understand and they converse all the time about work and private business?
there is nothing wrong if you speak your language in your brake or lunch or outside of the office if it is not a job site visit.
three things i don't like in the work environment;
listening music
people using ear phones
gambling/playing horses
I don't think they feel threatened, they probably just think that you should learn the frigging native language and speak it clearly and professionally while they are paying your salary. Maybe the gringoes should pay you in pesos if you have a problem assimilating?
i hate lou dobbs
i have to agree with most of the comments above.
however, poczatek, he clearly knows the language, so it's not an issue of assimilation.
it's a cultural thing. when i'm around other spanish-speaking friends (even though we're all bilingual, and english is our first language) we joke around and speak in spanish.
oh, and nobody says gringo anymore.
we say gabachos, which is not meant as an offensive term, just our slang word for anglos.
I might be jaded, but I say go ahead and speak what ever language you want. The way I look at it is that Gringos....are just lazy when it
comes to learning languages, myself included. My wife Brazilian speaks and reads in five languages. So it is always a bit distracting
walking down the street with her in NYC....cause she understands most of what is being spoken on the Street. I think you have to use your good judgement and hopefully everyone else will go to night school and learn some spanish.
I worked in an office in Boston years ago which was a heavily MIT dominated Office. A Jewish American Partner, a Portugese Partner,
a Lativian Partner. The staff consisted of a Bulgarian, a Columbian, two Lativians and sometime three, three chinese, a turk, a Thai, and
four gringos. We had great times. Lots of languages were spoken, lots of things were missed.
I always recall one of the Chinese was a woman named Carol, She was a hot tottie from California. There would always be calls forwarded to her from the front office and when she would answer, the caller would 90 percent of the time ask her if she could speak to Carol....thinking Carol was a guy. She would always give them an earful and we would all chuckle. She was tall and attractive, always dressed conservatively in slacks. After her and her husband decided they were going to return to California for Greener Pastures she came into the office to say good bye dressed in a hot black mini skirt and tube top. There were alot of tongues hanging out as she was drop dead gorgous. We knew we were going to miss her presence as a designer and as a good person who put things in a good perspective.
So I would say just check to be sure the Gringos.....are comfortable with you speaking Spanish. If they are like me who speaks very little Portugese, you might be surprized at how much they understand. I know when my wife is speaking I can most of the time tell what the tone of the conversation is and ususally what it pretains to. However as I say I get shy and speak very little and usually mess up enough that Brazilians will try out their english on me.
i think its just that people want to feel 'in on the joke'/'a part of the group' etc etc..
if you can make it clear youre not talking about them behind their back and patch up the relationship between your two groups im sure talking in whatever language shouldnt be a really big problem
If everybody can speak english, then why not. You are in an office which is highly dependent on ease of communication, so speaking spanish is hardly helping the situation.
Its not discrimination, its good work practice.
if the jokes are sexist yes if not your safe
Everyone is right and I do agree that it might feel awkward but we aren't talking behind everyones back. They do understand a little spanish. About the grouping thing between us, we didn't decide to be a team. The main heads did that and our projects are about the same just different companies. In our heritage we joke around a lot. We use both English and spanish. How hard is it for them to just ask what some words mean. If they feel offended. Would they feel offended if they were told to not speak English? Would you? I was hired knowing I can speak four languages. English since I was born here. Spanish since it's my heritage and Mandarin & Japanese because I wanted to learn a new language.
I guess some people try. I can only imagine how California would be in about 20 years w/ the language barrier. Since there are so many ethnicities. Which language would be banned then? Only time will tell...
This is in a sense a question of the hen and the egg. What came first, the group division or you guys speaking spanish?
Sure, there is a formal grouping since you are working on different projects, but you guys speaking a different language within your group is not going to make the non-spanish speaking employees feel invited or welcome.
I would say it is probably legal for you to speak whatever language you want. However, you are not really helping the office atmosphere for the others, actively excluding them in such a way.
MAD7: "How hard is it for them to just ask what some words mean."
You can put the onus on them, but that is just a way for you to feel better about creating a worse work atmosphere and dividing the office.
i love lou dobbs
and used to love rush (the band, not limbaugh)
This isn't discrimination and it really doesn't sound like it has anything to do with bilinguality (yes, an invented word). It's simply that people are getting frustrated because they feel like they aren't being kept in the loop, and that's a crucial aspect of any office.
MAD7, here's the thing. Everybody in the office can speak english just fine so in order to create an environment conductive to a synergistic approach everyone in the office needs to speak the same language, even if they aren't 100% competent in it. People feel isolated when one half of the office is speaking a language they don't understand, yet they know they other side of the office can speak a language they do understand. If the tables were turned how would you feel? Its an asshole move, plain and simple. Joke around in english and let the other half of the office in on the joke, plain and simple. Unless your saying racist, offensive, poder a la raza things, in which case keep that stuff at home. Its courtesy, not racism.
AND nobody is ever gonna ban Spanish, so chill.
...isn't there an assumption that the higher ups don't speak spanish? what if they do and hid that fact, and know hear what is being said and don't like it? i've seen that happen many times.
consult a lawyer, then keep speaking spanish to rub it into their faces. when the office makes a move, then you already have a plan.
I don't think it's discrimination at all. I speak another language which is of my own ethnicity, and I myself hate it when people speak other languages in front of me especially when we are more than able to communicate in the same language. It instantly assumes that they are conversing about something that they don't want you to hear.
Your people are simply asking you not to be rude and exclusionary which is exactly what you're being.
I feel its rude. This is an english-based country and if everyone understands and speaks english very well, then why is it necessary to switch to your own language at all when working with non-bilingual co-workers. It's very exclusionary and can be offensive.
or go to france
I wouldnt care - but thats me- I liked learning spanglish on const. sites.
I feel one strange form of discrimination Ive seen recently is large corporate firms who want the appearance of being more international hiring forign grads to boost their forign born, global image even though they have these folks doing toilet stalls, parking lay outs etc. - I ve often wondered what theyre hired for if theyre not going to be used for their language skills on the job management team, and not really stick around. There is a homegrown kid who just might know something despite being so obviously domestic and uninteresting.
Several German companies (such as Deutsche Bank and DaimlerChrysler) introduced English as the official language. This enabled them to recruit international management talent.
In a professional environment it is appropriate to speak the language everyone understands or that set as company standard. Only when required should you use any other language, such as when a client or business partner doesn't speak that language.
The fact that more people from non-English speaking backgrounds are multi-lingual than English speaking backgrounds is a different subject.
B/c it's such a small office, I think it might be best to keep the Spanish to a minimum for the same reasons made people here posted. No matter, what it DOES foster a divisive environment.
As far I know, speaking a different language at work is not a crime. Unfortunately, because it is not your firm, the boss can probably make a decision that your Spanish speaking would go under the category of "inappropriate language." So it could potentially affect your career. It's all about the paranoia of the the corporate culture. Your boss must know everything about you because in theory, everything about an employee contributes to his productivity. It ain't right, it's corporate America.
As a side note I don't think speaking Spanish around those who don't speak it is wrong. If you're not talking to them, then it doesn't matter anyway! I think it's dangerous to make people speak the "dominant language." Who are you and I to decide what the American language of choice should be.
Did the Native Americans speak English before the settlers got here? If we are all created equal, then our cultures are created equally also. So ideally,
you shouldn't have to conform so that the ignorance of others is furthered.
Good luck!
yeah! fight the power!
everyone/everything is equal
did cavemen wear pants? hells no! we are all created equal so i'm goin' to work in a loin cloth tomorrow!
why conform to the ignorance of my boss? who insists on .. pants!
i'm a free man!! i shall be free and i WILL NOT CONFORM!
it's not a crime so F.U. boss man! quit holdin' me down with your paranoid corporate culture come on JOIN ME/PANTS FREE!
(u know u wanna)
just WHO THE HELL decided ENGLISH was the 'dominant language' anyway?
speak freely!
si se puede!
zia jian!
voulez-vous coucher avec moi?
what, no?
oh well ...
ich bin ein berliner!
Mmmmmmm a jelly donut does sound good right about now FRaC
Mmmmmmm a jelly donut does sound good right about now FRaC
the comparison of wearing pants to speaking English, be it in jest, is scary.
Its says this:
running around naked and being a barbarian =speaking the language of your choice
wearing pants and being civilized= speaking English
sounds like the undertones of white supremacy to me.
not saying it is but it sounds like it.
of course I'm sure it's just sarcasm and I'm being too sensitive.
Speaking English around your boss is not a health issue.
Wearing pants is.
The way I see it there are two possibilities....
#1, you are talking about work. If this is the case, they can fire you for witholding information from the rest of the firm.
#2, you are not talking about work. If this is the case, they can fire you for goofing off too much instead of working.
Either way, they've got a non-discriminatory reason, so it's in your best interest to cut it out.
I agree with rationalist, I just wish one didn't have "turn-off" a part of his culture to maintain his job.
Wearing pants is a health issue?
Hmmm, i never got that memo.
Ok that's hilarious
wearing pants and being civilized= speaking English
sounds like the undertones of white supremacy to me.
not saying it is but it sounds like it.
of course I'm sure it's just sarcasm and I'm being too sensitive.
white supremacy? yes you're being too sensitive
no pants is not a crime!
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