I am requesting the assistance of my fellow archineters. I am seeking advice on weather to keep my current job or take an offer on a new position.
Current employment:
3+ years at firm, boss is a sole proprietor. Have been working through idp towards are and licensure. Initially, was given lots of design challenges and room for input. Transitioned into production and have been working in that arena for 2 years now. Was feeling stuck, constantly behind the screen, as office grew and more senior and experienced personnel were hired. I slowly began to look toward broader horizons.
Potential employment:
New firm, local branch of larger organization, lots of new projects, severely understaffed (locally), opportunity to see wider range of work through all phases, exciting challenges at all levels.
Through no leveraging on my part, I was recently given 8.8% raise and opportunity to move from production into full time construction management (with current employer) on a newly awarded $11-14 million (US) project. This development has me questioning what direction to follow.
Any input, advice, or anecdotes would be appreciated.
if this was your first job, i.e., you're just 3+ yrs out, you could do well in either scenario i think. if you're more experienced than that, you need to be thinking hard about what you want to be doing long-term.
the ca role sounds great if it's for one project and you get to go back to other roles after this project. but do you want to become the ca guy? (maybe you do.)
i'm kind of amazed that your employer can have a 100% ca person as a sole proprietor with a $11-$14m project. that's not such a great big project to absorb one person full time in the field....
Is the CA project - which you said is "newly awarded" - only doing CA, or is it starting from design and following through to opening day?
If the latter, that could be an amazing experience. If not, and you are considering leaving your current firm right before your new role on the construction project starts, you need to consider your employer's situation if you lave right now.
In general I tend to think that it is important and beneficial to have a variety of experiences over the first ten years of one's career, so my first instinct is to tell you it sounds like a good time to move on to a new experience.
hmmmm
you got me there. i am in the opposite position wondering which to take...the raise at the current large office or the new position at the small place where i can have more responsibility and see the big picture by virtue of there being fewer people and smaller projects.
my question would be, if they hired you and put you in construction management and really need to hire people and maybe it takes a while to staff up, what is the likelyhood of you getting stuck in that position even more than you are stuck now? CA is demanding and you can be the office expert while design staff is being hired and you are seeing your opportunities get handed to others.
as far as staying goes, 8.8% is not much of a raise but it does sound like you are being given more responsibilities and opportunities there, and given your seniority (even if there are new people above you) you might have more opportunities if you stayed. i would want 3% cost of living raise per year (or 6% every other year or whatever) and merit raises every couple of years so i think you had that raise coming regardless of your ladder climbing
what is the difference in personalities, office culture?
that might be the deciding factor
Similar thing happened to me regarding the early years at a firm versus the current situation. When we were under staffed, I got to do a lot in many different areas, work on multiple projects simultaneously. Now we're staffed up with new personnel at all levels and I'm now mainly in production, no meetings, no design, tiny bit of CA, very boring and a little discouraging. I haven't been with my firm as long as you have, but I would take opportunity for the most variety in work.
It did occur to me that more information may be needed than what was originally stated, a little more background:
March '99; took a different path after graduation and became a licensed contractor 00 (residential and light commercial), worked in that situation until '04 then took current gig working towards legit "Architect."
SW, you are exactly correct in having to think hard about what to do long term (i also have 2 1/2 year old). The ca role is for this project only (at least at this time), don't necessarily want to become the ca dude. and you are correct that the 100% on the project would not be immediately, only that I would be the one overseeing the project (the dollar range was given for a reality check on how long this may go on - 14-16 months???). I would also still work on production as required, but the primary focus would be the ca position.
LB, the position is for the ca only. This is a project that has become dead, alive, re-funded, re-allocated, for 6+ years (office legend). By newly awarded I mean contract newly awarded, so the project will indeed be built. I worked on CD's for this project. Exactly, LB, when asked about this position, i became immediately aware of my current employer's situation, but I really need to hold onto my cards, especially this time of year (i work hard and this is a bonus based office...). Since I am nearing the ten year mark i really feel that with the aforementioned experience that I have gotten my fill of variety.
Funk, There is the possibility of getting even more stuck by staying with the current employer. But the opportunity to do something more in the field is alluring, and something with my background I will excel at (giving me more leverage in any future situation?).
I really like the people I work with now. It is the single reason that I haven't left earlier.
New office? Very small, might be nearly alone most of the time...
sorry, i just dont know. i got a new offer and my head is reeling. so many factors...
i have this line of a dave matthews song in my head for some reason:
"stay or leave, i want you not to go but you should"
i dont think it necessarily applies.
people are the job in a lot of ways. there is a saying: other people is hell. but other people can make dreary work bearable.
i guess it would come down to lifestyle in a lot of ways. you have a kid, would this new position be overly demanding of your time? is it hourly? you are used to the bonuses? if you have had your fill of variety maybe you should stay and dig deeper into the project you did cd's on and get it built. ca is great but don't stop drawing.
wierd about the song. the funny thing about it for me is that is was not the right thing to do. i guess it wasnt a sign. i thought it was but it wasnt. funny how if you are quiet for long enough and don't think about it that the answer comes.
there is no wrong answer.
if you stay you will be at a place where you have clout, responsibility, and if you keep pushing you will get to do what you want - be proactive.
if you leave you will get more variety, which is healthy...and you have been at your current place for long enough to justify leaving. it's always good to shake up your comfort level. i am comfortable at escaping, so it is testing me to stay
ok, so i am in a similar situation. and there's a list of 5 reasons why I have dissapointed with where I'm at. Unfortunately, I would have done this much sooner, but my laptop was stolen right as I finished the first draft of my portfolio which delayed things. So, I wish I was in a better position to move on and look around, but it just got to the point where I had to at least say something. So that was my approach, I sat my boss down and told it like it was. He agreed with my reasoning entirely, but at the same time made up excuses for why it became this way. So, after his little speech, I looked at my list and said, hmmm, looks like you're 0 for 5. (And it's entirely not personal, he's absolutely being truthful as to his reasons, but at the same time there's a lack of effort and care which i was upset about.) he got the message, and said he'd work on the 3 things that he could work on and talk to me on Friday.
...so we'll see, but I feel like I shouldn't have to ask. I bust my ass and work circles around exploding hatch girl and myspace boy. I think that's what everyone needs to learn. You have to ask. You most definately have to ask in most situations. I'm coming to realize this, probably too late.
other than that, I wouldn't dream of getting into reasoning about what you'd like to do. I think that's almost more important than the money in most cases. The money is making the best of the situation in which your work is fulfilling to you.
ok, so i did the talk, his did his whatever, and he came back to me with little to no results. we went over my reasons for being unsatisfied, (again), and i said i wasn't sure what i wanted to do. its a shame that he doesn't fight a little harder to keep me. anyway, so the question is turning into this:
can I let him know that I'm looking? use him as a reference. or should I leave all stealth like? he is a terrific reference and we discussed reasons why I might be leaving. If I left it would be to firm with a very different approach to architecture, probably small, with no direct competition with where I'm at.
thank you emaze. and quizzical for your advice in the nect archives. so for anyone else who is wondering, i probably should have kept my mouth shut and put on a happy face until i had my portfolio ready and lined something up. and i won't be telling my employer that I intend to leave. it's a shame because we have a really good working relationship. but as long as he doesn't thinking i'm pulling a fast one on him when i give him notice, it should remain that way.
postal, sounds like you should bounce but i dont think there is any reason to be stealthy...not that you should have the jobs page open when he walks by first thing in the morning.
dont burn any bridges. you never know when you might have to work with them again, or need idp stuff signed or get drawings when you work on a similar project in the future...or use the same consultants and be linked to a bad story or whatever. even if you move 1000 miles away it is possible to run into them again in the future - it happens.
so i would ask for a reference letter after you give your notice. you might be surprised how nice it is
and burn your work onto cd's before you give notice in case he fires you on the spot and it's hard to get work you have done later (some big companies do that if they think people will be useless during their last 2 weeks)
i dont know what your relationship is with your current boss, and sorry if i am making assumptions - i skimmed the posts above - but you have got to look out for yourself. like john lennon says, "you gotta serve yourself, aint nobody gonna do for you"
i have even found that when i left a job i hate but went back to say hello a few years later b/c the projects were kickass and i wanted to talk shop about that kind of stuff, it was all water under the bridge and we were better off not working together but got along fine otherwise. personality is huge. you might not be suited to working together, especially in a small firm.
the same might apply to you, emaze
Dec 8, 07 2:15 pm ·
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New Job, or Different Job?
I am requesting the assistance of my fellow archineters. I am seeking advice on weather to keep my current job or take an offer on a new position.
Current employment:
3+ years at firm, boss is a sole proprietor. Have been working through idp towards are and licensure. Initially, was given lots of design challenges and room for input. Transitioned into production and have been working in that arena for 2 years now. Was feeling stuck, constantly behind the screen, as office grew and more senior and experienced personnel were hired. I slowly began to look toward broader horizons.
Potential employment:
New firm, local branch of larger organization, lots of new projects, severely understaffed (locally), opportunity to see wider range of work through all phases, exciting challenges at all levels.
Through no leveraging on my part, I was recently given 8.8% raise and opportunity to move from production into full time construction management (with current employer) on a newly awarded $11-14 million (US) project. This development has me questioning what direction to follow.
Any input, advice, or anecdotes would be appreciated.
if this was your first job, i.e., you're just 3+ yrs out, you could do well in either scenario i think. if you're more experienced than that, you need to be thinking hard about what you want to be doing long-term.
the ca role sounds great if it's for one project and you get to go back to other roles after this project. but do you want to become the ca guy? (maybe you do.)
i'm kind of amazed that your employer can have a 100% ca person as a sole proprietor with a $11-$14m project. that's not such a great big project to absorb one person full time in the field....
Is the CA project - which you said is "newly awarded" - only doing CA, or is it starting from design and following through to opening day?
If the latter, that could be an amazing experience. If not, and you are considering leaving your current firm right before your new role on the construction project starts, you need to consider your employer's situation if you lave right now.
In general I tend to think that it is important and beneficial to have a variety of experiences over the first ten years of one's career, so my first instinct is to tell you it sounds like a good time to move on to a new experience.
hmmmm
you got me there. i am in the opposite position wondering which to take...the raise at the current large office or the new position at the small place where i can have more responsibility and see the big picture by virtue of there being fewer people and smaller projects.
my question would be, if they hired you and put you in construction management and really need to hire people and maybe it takes a while to staff up, what is the likelyhood of you getting stuck in that position even more than you are stuck now? CA is demanding and you can be the office expert while design staff is being hired and you are seeing your opportunities get handed to others.
as far as staying goes, 8.8% is not much of a raise but it does sound like you are being given more responsibilities and opportunities there, and given your seniority (even if there are new people above you) you might have more opportunities if you stayed. i would want 3% cost of living raise per year (or 6% every other year or whatever) and merit raises every couple of years so i think you had that raise coming regardless of your ladder climbing
what is the difference in personalities, office culture?
that might be the deciding factor
Similar thing happened to me regarding the early years at a firm versus the current situation. When we were under staffed, I got to do a lot in many different areas, work on multiple projects simultaneously. Now we're staffed up with new personnel at all levels and I'm now mainly in production, no meetings, no design, tiny bit of CA, very boring and a little discouraging. I haven't been with my firm as long as you have, but I would take opportunity for the most variety in work.
Thanks for the posts, SW, LB, and Funk.
It did occur to me that more information may be needed than what was originally stated, a little more background:
March '99; took a different path after graduation and became a licensed contractor 00 (residential and light commercial), worked in that situation until '04 then took current gig working towards legit "Architect."
SW, you are exactly correct in having to think hard about what to do long term (i also have 2 1/2 year old). The ca role is for this project only (at least at this time), don't necessarily want to become the ca dude. and you are correct that the 100% on the project would not be immediately, only that I would be the one overseeing the project (the dollar range was given for a reality check on how long this may go on - 14-16 months???). I would also still work on production as required, but the primary focus would be the ca position.
LB, the position is for the ca only. This is a project that has become dead, alive, re-funded, re-allocated, for 6+ years (office legend). By newly awarded I mean contract newly awarded, so the project will indeed be built. I worked on CD's for this project. Exactly, LB, when asked about this position, i became immediately aware of my current employer's situation, but I really need to hold onto my cards, especially this time of year (i work hard and this is a bonus based office...). Since I am nearing the ten year mark i really feel that with the aforementioned experience that I have gotten my fill of variety.
Funk, There is the possibility of getting even more stuck by staying with the current employer. But the opportunity to do something more in the field is alluring, and something with my background I will excel at (giving me more leverage in any future situation?).
I really like the people I work with now. It is the single reason that I haven't left earlier.
New office? Very small, might be nearly alone most of the time...
Get a bartending Job - you'll get more chicks
bartending is difficult with a 2 1/2 year old, i have thought about nights at the circle K, however.
sorry, i just dont know. i got a new offer and my head is reeling. so many factors...
i have this line of a dave matthews song in my head for some reason:
"stay or leave, i want you not to go but you should"
i dont think it necessarily applies.
people are the job in a lot of ways. there is a saying: other people is hell. but other people can make dreary work bearable.
i guess it would come down to lifestyle in a lot of ways. you have a kid, would this new position be overly demanding of your time? is it hourly? you are used to the bonuses? if you have had your fill of variety maybe you should stay and dig deeper into the project you did cd's on and get it built. ca is great but don't stop drawing.
fast growing might = unstable
good luck
Funk,
funny that you mention that song, it was playing on radio paradise shortly after your post...
wierd about the song. the funny thing about it for me is that is was not the right thing to do. i guess it wasnt a sign. i thought it was but it wasnt. funny how if you are quiet for long enough and don't think about it that the answer comes.
there is no wrong answer.
if you stay you will be at a place where you have clout, responsibility, and if you keep pushing you will get to do what you want - be proactive.
if you leave you will get more variety, which is healthy...and you have been at your current place for long enough to justify leaving. it's always good to shake up your comfort level. i am comfortable at escaping, so it is testing me to stay
ok, so i am in a similar situation. and there's a list of 5 reasons why I have dissapointed with where I'm at. Unfortunately, I would have done this much sooner, but my laptop was stolen right as I finished the first draft of my portfolio which delayed things. So, I wish I was in a better position to move on and look around, but it just got to the point where I had to at least say something. So that was my approach, I sat my boss down and told it like it was. He agreed with my reasoning entirely, but at the same time made up excuses for why it became this way. So, after his little speech, I looked at my list and said, hmmm, looks like you're 0 for 5. (And it's entirely not personal, he's absolutely being truthful as to his reasons, but at the same time there's a lack of effort and care which i was upset about.) he got the message, and said he'd work on the 3 things that he could work on and talk to me on Friday.
...so we'll see, but I feel like I shouldn't have to ask. I bust my ass and work circles around exploding hatch girl and myspace boy. I think that's what everyone needs to learn. You have to ask. You most definately have to ask in most situations. I'm coming to realize this, probably too late.
other than that, I wouldn't dream of getting into reasoning about what you'd like to do. I think that's almost more important than the money in most cases. The money is making the best of the situation in which your work is fulfilling to you.
good words, postal
it's all so situational
"life is like a box of chocolates..."
ugh...never thought i would be quoting forrest, forrest gump
ok, so i did the talk, his did his whatever, and he came back to me with little to no results. we went over my reasons for being unsatisfied, (again), and i said i wasn't sure what i wanted to do. its a shame that he doesn't fight a little harder to keep me. anyway, so the question is turning into this:
can I let him know that I'm looking? use him as a reference. or should I leave all stealth like? he is a terrific reference and we discussed reasons why I might be leaving. If I left it would be to firm with a very different approach to architecture, probably small, with no direct competition with where I'm at.
and this thread?
and the threads in this thread...
thank you emaze. and quizzical for your advice in the nect archives. so for anyone else who is wondering, i probably should have kept my mouth shut and put on a happy face until i had my portfolio ready and lined something up. and i won't be telling my employer that I intend to leave. it's a shame because we have a really good working relationship. but as long as he doesn't thinking i'm pulling a fast one on him when i give him notice, it should remain that way.
...ok, portfolio time...
postal, sounds like you should bounce but i dont think there is any reason to be stealthy...not that you should have the jobs page open when he walks by first thing in the morning.
dont burn any bridges. you never know when you might have to work with them again, or need idp stuff signed or get drawings when you work on a similar project in the future...or use the same consultants and be linked to a bad story or whatever. even if you move 1000 miles away it is possible to run into them again in the future - it happens.
so i would ask for a reference letter after you give your notice. you might be surprised how nice it is
you need to be appreciated
and burn your work onto cd's before you give notice in case he fires you on the spot and it's hard to get work you have done later (some big companies do that if they think people will be useless during their last 2 weeks)
i dont know what your relationship is with your current boss, and sorry if i am making assumptions - i skimmed the posts above - but you have got to look out for yourself. like john lennon says, "you gotta serve yourself, aint nobody gonna do for you"
i have even found that when i left a job i hate but went back to say hello a few years later b/c the projects were kickass and i wanted to talk shop about that kind of stuff, it was all water under the bridge and we were better off not working together but got along fine otherwise. personality is huge. you might not be suited to working together, especially in a small firm.
the same might apply to you, emaze
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