i know..... not much i can do right now as for moving.......
reason i ask is that i have had a few interviews for office jobs.....and i always get looked down upon for not working in a firm for 7-8 years. but in those years i have ran a wood shop/construction/exhibit engineering/model/design:build
dont you think that that is a decent background/experience?....
the firms here have out of state work so they are busy to a point.....
should i read a code book or study some other things just so i have another "item" to put on the resume?
sure i might not know all the codes or curtain wall systems...but damn....
do i need some high end firm names on the resume'
makes me pissed how i can send a resume to a firm/get an interview/ then get asked if i worked in a firm .... wtf...did you even read the resume and list of built project that i did,........
Why don't you have a resume? If not, I think being able to clearly explain your work, philosophy, goals, and reasons why you haven't pursued a traditional course would be good.
i have a resume... but the list of built projects and client list over weighs it..... i worked in a few firms after graduating...... but then went the design/build route/etc....
i want to get back into design/detailing for small/medium sized projects and i think my portfolio/background can really back me up on that....but it seems that the resume gets the attention and not the work..... (make sense?)
Maybe make the resume like an intro to the portfolio, like just a bullet point and then move to how you've been applying construction technology and code knowledge through these projects. If you've got built work you obviously, have some sense of what it takes to produce a project.
make a resume/portfolio sample package to send out and REALLY highlight what you think would appeal to each firm that you are applying to.
I just finished working long and hard on mine - can email you some sample pages if you want - just to get some ideas. send me your email if you want.
Sell yourself like you command what you have done - give an example (portfolio wise, then show how awesome you were at it.) Showing you have a mastery, or a huge accomplishment and really applied yourself (in any field or medium...) will go a long ways to impressing a potential boss.
cover letter + resume + sample pages are the way to go. Really gives a chance to show off and stand out without sending a CD set or similar mass of documents to them.
oh my god cryzko, you're an independent thinker! For fuck's sake man you are like the anti-christ to most firms! You'd be better off if you spent the last 7-8 years smoking weed out of you're parent's basement.
I hope you can find an employer that values those qualities, but I think you will be hard pressed to find that in this industry unless you're running you're own shop.
I cannot tell you how much trouble i get into for thinking for myself working for other people.
maybe thats the real reason..... doing the independent thing for the years i have and still managed to eat......
but right now... for me... i want to get to the next level of project size..... interior design/detailing is my niche' i guess.....(model building but i wont do that at a firm).......
trying to setup a contract firm to work with firms/etc..... but i think firms would rather get a fresh student/pay them low/ and tell them what to do.... i dont really know...seriously........
people ask me why i dont work for -insert name here-
maybe i started tooo early.... started my own thing when i was 23 (31 now)........
i do have "marketing packages"that i have been sending out/dropping off/giving to the right people/etc...... follow up emails/etc...
i think what i need is to be published and then that might help....maybe...
i had a model publish in the el paso times back in early 2000 or so...
then some of the models i have worked on at the "other shop" have been published in architecture record
maybe i need a marketing person..... or some books to read on that..... i found a book regarding "gorilla marketing" and gave some good points...but 75% of the reading was basic ideas.......
I would actually shy away from newsletters, postcards, and blogs if I was looking to become an employee at someone else's firm. Why? Because those are things that you would do to market your own business, which suggests to the employer that this is just temporary until you can get your own thing together.
I would go with a more traditional resume and teaser portfolio to show that you still remember how to be an employee. And of course, work your contacts!
I think rationalist makes a good point- it sounds like your presentation of yourself is skills based, but employers want to see that you are also willing and able to play the game/be an employee...
but I'm not sure how you would show them that, it almost needs to be someone else telling them that.
are you just looking to get access to bigger/better/different projects?
i just setup the "marketing" stuff for the company to hustle in work since i couldnt get hired......
if a place called me today and said "hey we need you on a project, when can you start".... i would start the next day......
but for the past 2 years or so, i've been fighting this whole "next level" step that i need to do..... i cant get IDP on my own.....
blog is for more personal concepts for the company/etc
forum is for college students and trying to lend out a hand
website is for portfolio/marketing/company
1. Believe it or not, written communication skills are essential in our business. If you were to study something, I would suggest pursuing strategies to develop clarity in your ideas.
2. What can you "be the best in the world at?" There is a book called Good to Great that explores this topic. I've followed many of your posts and websites, but I have a hard time understanding your personal mission. It seems like you try a new idea every week and get frustrated often.
3. This was briefly mentioned above. To convince a potential employer that you are worth hiring, you must demonstrate that you can pick something and stick with it. It may help you to clarify and emphasize a common theme that exists in your work.
mdler... yeah that was my vette.... might be selling it though.....not sure..
dca...
only reason i do "other things" is that i have to eat..... i dont have the financial backing to get the shop at the level i want it at, or have the loot to be able to hire people to help out/work/etc
i do get alot of ideas and do get frustrated on some days when i dont have anything to do...thats why i get into other things....
model building is a good hustle for me and thats the only thing that really pays any bills...(but the models are hard to come by)
reason i went into construction was to learn about it..... lvl's p=lams, trim,etc......
managed to get into the exhibit industry for a little bit and that was my niche' due to my background in construction....but that was a contract job for the autoshow rush.....
i started the clothing line so i could sell a product...... t-shirts and maybe a shoe line soon...would like to get my jewelry line going too.
only reason for all these "other" things is because i have to stay creative....... if i dont have something to do i'll go crazy and think of something else to start on.
i could be too independent but isnt that a good thing?...... if someone dropped a project in my hands and said "design up this restaurant space in a week"... you dont think i could manage...(besides looking up codes...but making sure everything is ADA)....
my mindset for design is a bit different i think...... i like to figure out the materials first then design..... so this way i'm working with a "kit of parts" and know that if i want to do a panel system then the panels i already wanted to use have the sizes so i would design with that....
i think having a firm understanding in design/construction is what employees of firms need to know........ get dirty and bang up some knuckles so you understand what that line you drew in cad really stands for.....
i think having a firm understanding in design/construction is what employees of firms need to know........ get dirty and bang up some knuckles so you understand what that line you drew in cad really stands for.....
That's dangerous thinking cryzko, yes, employers say they want to see that but I firmly don't think that's the case.
cryzko, i don't know everything, but i think there are some ways to get out of IDP, it takes alot of patience, but if you've been in private practice long enough and have taken the lic. exams I think there may be hope of getting an exception.
The other option is make a pro. portfolio out of a bunch of old school projects, then go to a firm as a person who has never worked in the field before (read: fresh grad). Only list internships/previous jobs/odd gigs and schools on your resume and list nothing regarding the last 7 years in private practice. Tell them you took a break from the industry and went overseas for a few years or something and now you're back and want to start fresh. Endure two years of internship hell, all the while not alerting your employers to your actual skill set. Get your IDP requirements in, then get the fuck out of there. Maybe even consider blowing town and getting reciprical licensure in another state, or you could pull an FLW and steal their clients.
It could be fun, like leading a double life. Bottom line, you're over-qualified for an internship position (which is basically what you need for IDP) and likely lack the general workplace skills garnered through years of suffering through an office job.
I think you might be happier there, anyway. You'd get to dabble in exhibit design, product design, graphics....... they might even see your clothing line as an asset.
Think about it. It might not be the exact route you're looking for, but with enough success in ID, there's no reason you couldn't get your foot in the door at a furniture/interior design company.
yeah... i did some work for exhibit works here in michigan....engineering/model/sculpture
thing about ID...is that you have to have an ID degree...been there and asked that...... they think a 5 year b.a. arch has no weight in ID..... plus i have no skills in rhino/viz/max/etc......
i'm pushing away here...... i need to get back on my funiture line and get that moving but need to prototype a few things.....grrrr....
its the 10vs1 battle.... can have 10 good things but the 1 thing you dont have is what matters...
am not sure why you can't get a position of some sort at an office...
could be plain bad luck.
the 10 to 1 thing i am not so sure about. that 1 thing would have to be pretty big to be a deal breaker...3d modeling skills certainly wouldn't be an issue to me (my partner can't do any of that and it has never been a problem for him).
without seeing your cv or portfolio the only thing that really comes to mind is that the broad nature of your interests might be putting employers off. it is hard to tell what you are interested in and whether you would be interested in sustaining a career with whoever you are applying to work with. it may help if you write an honest cover letter saying exactly what you are planning to do with your career...you know, have been doing x and y, but now have decided to pursue architecture in an office again and ready to commit to that path...
i would not try to cover up or hide the past. that would not work out i think; but i would also not use the model building, graphic design and self-build projects as the only selling point. to be honest, self build is fanastic, but the scope of what you have learned is still not as large as what you will need to know to work in an office. The projects most architecture offices work on are just much larger, so the knowledge you have gained will probably not impress as much as you'd hope (unless you have built an entire building on your own). It is a good base to work from though...which is why i am surprised you can't find a job that works for you...
keep at it. am certain you will get a job you like if you keep trying.
Have you really found that industrial design companies require that much education? It's not even a regulated field, like architecture. The relationship between school and ID is probably the same as it was for school and architecture 100 years ago - some people studied it, others didn't, but it didn't prevent anybody from giving it a go. There's still no licensure, internship requirements, etc.
I think if you focused your portfolio to suit your strongest work and took jump's advice of writing an honest cover letter, you'd have a job soon enough. You might not get the $$$ you want right away, but you're obviously a hard worker and I'm sure you could work your way up the ladder if you wanted.
Now, the caveat is that none of us really know you - you could do all the right things and then show to an interview with a huge attitude or a giant booger hanging off your nose or whatever.... But certainly a portfolio that caters to your skills and experience will give you a start.
Think about the interviews you've had. What have you learned from them? How can you use the interview experience as a learning tool in order to secure a job?
is there an arch or ID firm who's work you appreciate? I see that you're not big into talking, but it wouldn't hurt to network. Take the the Architect or Designer to lunch (& pay) shoot them some questions about their work, get them to talk about themselves and ease in a discussion for their advice on "the next step" they may not offer you a position but architects know other architects. One good contact is better than no contacts. Cold calling isn't glamorous (& i'll prolly get berated for mentioning it... f**k 'em, it's the same as researching), just don't take being told "no" personally, it can give ya a thicker skin and eventually let you be exposed in the creative community in a positive, proactive light. Try it with a professor first if it sounds too... um, scary... their architects & designers, too or should at least know some.
Do the same with a banker, open a shop downtown & gain some capital. Even though your 'focus' maybe spiratic, the work you create does well for itself... Oh yeah, do the lunches regularly.
& if you need someone to help with marketing know a gal.
"that the broad nature of your interests might be putting employers off. it is hard to tell what you are interested in and whether you would be interested in sustaining a career with whoever you are applying to work with."
I think what jump said above may be a key point. As an employer, I wouldn't know what to make of you/how to best utilize you so that both you and I are happy. Your interests are all over the place. How do I know you won't get bored within a month or two because the work doesn't interest you or there's not enough diversity for you. You seem to like the diversity and no one likes a bored employee.
One thing I would do if I were you is that I would put my resume, cover letter, and portfolio together based on each individual I met with. Customize for every meeting. This way, if you are meeting with a more buttoned up place, I would not put my tees, products, etc. in it. They are not interested in that stuff. I would also, primarily if not entirely, focus your portfolio on your architecture work. Not much more. This is what your potential employer is interested in. Give them what they want if you really want that job.
With regards to needing an ID degree to work in an ID studio, that is not true. I've worked for a digital media/industrial design firm, and I don't have a degree in ID. I think most ID shops look for people who come at the problems of usability and form factors from a different perspective. They will hire people with backgrounds outside of ID.
have you tried contacting michael poris of macintosh poris? it's a small office, and he's a nice guy. worth getting in touch with at any rate - job or no job.
what about christian unverzagt at m1dtw? they're uber-design-build, but it may be hard to work through idp there.
with the lousy economy in se michigan, it's going to be hard finding much. the small firms are feeling it particularly tough.
let me know if i can help at all. we should grab another beer in any case.
i'm gonna see what i can do about this starting today........
just a little stressed about this whole "career" thing and if i should have stayed in the office realm over the years..... cant change that now....so have to keep pushing along
brutal honesty: cryzko, i like you and all, but if i were on the employer side of things i'd also have to wonder if you'd get stir crazy and be bored by the daily grind that the office can be sometimes. jump and e have nailed it: that's what prospective employers are seeing in your work.
as a person of (admirable) action, you may not be cut out for the things i'd need: checking of hardware schedules; drawing of roof plans with the tapered insulation, gutters, and downspouts all figured out; detailed code review; etc. if you think you COULD do that, you need to frame the presentation of your resume and portfolio to communicate it better. if you think you couldn't, well... ?
there are some things at which you are obviously very skilled. but a lot of offices don't build models - or much of anything. we facilitate building that other people do. even the guys who concentrate on construction administration are paper-pushers - they just happen to have mud on their boots.
i could have sworn that larger firms have departments that would take care of your interests....
design
architecture
engineering/etc
i'm sure not everyone knows everything about architecture...thats why you tend to get in the area that you think you fit..... some might have the knowledge to fully detail a house or a small building....while other are designers working on larger projects.....
sure my "little" projects might be little but all in all, the fact that i did design/build/bid/etc through the process is a key factor.
time will tell i guess............. all i ever wanted to do is create...... ..
you are an entrepeneur cryz. stay with that follow your vision. the everyday architecture world is for monkeys man. your soul would be crushed faster than the junkyard crushes a k-car.
its the 10vs1 battle.... can have 10 good things but the 1 thing you dont have is what matters...
is the 1 thing you don't have what matters to them?...or is it what matters to you? are you using that as a polite excuse to explain why you haven't gotten a job? and yeah, detroit is tough...but is that just another crutch for you to lean on? i've known other people that have gotten jobs with firms in detroit so it's not exactly impossible. maybe it's time to dig deeper and re-evaluate yourself.
since i am only basing my assessment on your various forum comments, i suspect that your difficulty in finding a job with an architecture firm is largely the result of attitude. your posts here reek of it. you manage to sound full of yourself (talking about all the work you're doing) and, oddly enough, full of self-doubt (constantly whining about how you're still not successful)...yet you maintain a stubborn streak to keep grinding at it rather than change yourself...as if your core belief is that "street cred" is more important than the comforts of a bourgeois life. it's contradictory and confusing enough to make the head spin...
..and if any of that is being conveyed in an interview whether consciously or via subliminal body language or whatever then that's a problem. put yourself in an employer's shoes for a moment...now does any of the above sound like someone you'd like to hire and work with?
generally speaking, architecture firms have multiple candidates for any position that they offer, especially entry level spots for people looking to participate in idp or just do some drafting. maybe you're better than that (actually, nearly all of us are better than that) but you still have to suck it up and commit to the program. you are competing with other people for jobs and your attitude needs to convey that you want to be there and are happy and grateful for the opportunity to be there...otherwise, they'll pass on you and find someone else who is.
sucks?...probably yeah. if you want to be independent then you can be independent...but you've probably already noticed that has it's problems too.
but keep in mind that even a legendary lone wolf like chazz michael michaels had to make some compromises to get what he wanted...at least you don't have to wear tights and dance with another man in ice skates to get there.
cezanne was full of doubt and look what he managed to do. his paintings are in museums and replicated in jigsaw puzzles at the museum giftshop. his paintings sell for thousands of dollars that is if you can find one for sale!
i just want to get idp to get my stamp... thats it
sort of sad when i have friends that are registered and not doing a damn thing with it...... not even willing to lend some help to a friend......
it might seem like i have a bad attitude on this board.....but its the internet and an open forum...... and i do support my work and have to showcase what i'm doing every now and then....... no point in having a gold coin if the chest is always locked and closed....
i have comprimised over the years....... i have worked for "some-one else" and did what i had to do at the time........ you think working rough carpentry with 2 bad knees is fun....did that for 2.5 years spring/summer/fall/winter...... with the end being a knee surgury and not being able to return to rough carpentry on that level
all i do is push away........ make my couple bucks and wonder if i should mix the ramen noodles with the packet or with hot sauce just to change it up a bit......
i understand the issues of being on your own...... ups and downs..... but when you are looking for another outlet to be creative in and all you get is some excuses or b.s. issues then it gets a bit discouraging.......
sure i have friends that are making good money in the field and they are designing/etc....... would be cool to do that..... but my belief when i got out of college was to go a build..build..build....get all these attributes under my sleeve so i can be more marketable...... but all in all it back fired................
full renovation..added the 3rd floor studio and roof deck..... built the garage and the yoga hut.......
my duties
rough/finish carpentry
fix detail issues
paint/stain/install
repair work
helped stack the foundations for the garage and the yoga hut
etc......
or if you like to build just work for a construction firm. get yer contractors license save some caish. buy a pickup with duellies and pipes paint yer name on the side and become a design builder.
For what it's worth, I recently gave up on IDP because I just want to create stuff. The single-minded effort of 'the path to licensure' was killing me creatively. I still work my day job as the only employee of a sole practitioner architect, but last week I made $600 dollars selling t-shirts i designed and printed in my living room. Selling them out of a backpack. Most fun I've had making money in years.
just throwin it out there...
where I live, you could easily (with some connections and hustle) design and build an entire restaurant interior without even a driver's license.
cryz - i don't think you know how boring it is to be an entry or mid level architect. We recently interviewed a guy who had gone to architecture school, but had only worked in construction and real estate, never in a traditional architectural setting. He just wouldn't have fit in! (read, too INDEPENDENT). Plus he would have cut his pay in half if he came to work for us. We just knew he had a poor shot at being happy.
i guess i need to study...but what
so,
what are the tricks to getting a job? like employment or contract work in the arch/design field?
should i read some books or study something?....
you would think designing and building your own projects would have some weight, right.....
marketing ideas...... newsletters/postcards/blog?????
how much weight does a resume have over a portfolio/projects?
dont live in a city that is dead (detroit)
i know..... not much i can do right now as for moving.......
reason i ask is that i have had a few interviews for office jobs.....and i always get looked down upon for not working in a firm for 7-8 years. but in those years i have ran a wood shop/construction/exhibit engineering/model/design:build
dont you think that that is a decent background/experience?....
the firms here have out of state work so they are busy to a point.....
should i read a code book or study some other things just so i have another "item" to put on the resume?
sure i might not know all the codes or curtain wall systems...but damn....
do i need some high end firm names on the resume'
makes me pissed how i can send a resume to a firm/get an interview/ then get asked if i worked in a firm .... wtf...did you even read the resume and list of built project that i did,........
rant off
b
Why don't you have a resume? If not, I think being able to clearly explain your work, philosophy, goals, and reasons why you haven't pursued a traditional course would be good.
i have a resume... but the list of built projects and client list over weighs it..... i worked in a few firms after graduating...... but then went the design/build route/etc....
i want to get back into design/detailing for small/medium sized projects and i think my portfolio/background can really back me up on that....but it seems that the resume gets the attention and not the work..... (make sense?)
b
I think we posted at the same time.
Maybe make the resume like an intro to the portfolio, like just a bullet point and then move to how you've been applying construction technology and code knowledge through these projects. If you've got built work you obviously, have some sense of what it takes to produce a project.
so far the resume is 2 pages....
lists everything from employment to work to skills to client list.....
maybe i should rework it somehow..... ....
not sure what else i can include......hmmmm
b
make a resume/portfolio sample package to send out and REALLY highlight what you think would appeal to each firm that you are applying to.
I just finished working long and hard on mine - can email you some sample pages if you want - just to get some ideas. send me your email if you want.
Sell yourself like you command what you have done - give an example (portfolio wise, then show how awesome you were at it.) Showing you have a mastery, or a huge accomplishment and really applied yourself (in any field or medium...) will go a long ways to impressing a potential boss.
cover letter + resume + sample pages are the way to go. Really gives a chance to show off and stand out without sending a CD set or similar mass of documents to them.
i'm not a good salesman...hahaha...prolly my problem..... i was never a talker but more of a do'er i guess....
have to work on that....
b
oh my god cryzko, you're an independent thinker! For fuck's sake man you are like the anti-christ to most firms! You'd be better off if you spent the last 7-8 years smoking weed out of you're parent's basement.
I hope you can find an employer that values those qualities, but I think you will be hard pressed to find that in this industry unless you're running you're own shop.
I cannot tell you how much trouble i get into for thinking for myself working for other people.
thanks apur....
maybe thats the real reason..... doing the independent thing for the years i have and still managed to eat......
but right now... for me... i want to get to the next level of project size..... interior design/detailing is my niche' i guess.....(model building but i wont do that at a firm).......
trying to setup a contract firm to work with firms/etc..... but i think firms would rather get a fresh student/pay them low/ and tell them what to do.... i dont really know...seriously........
people ask me why i dont work for -insert name here-
maybe i started tooo early.... started my own thing when i was 23 (31 now)........
i do have "marketing packages"that i have been sending out/dropping off/giving to the right people/etc...... follow up emails/etc...
i think what i need is to be published and then that might help....maybe...
i had a model publish in the el paso times back in early 2000 or so...
then some of the models i have worked on at the "other shop" have been published in architecture record
maybe i need a marketing person..... or some books to read on that..... i found a book regarding "gorilla marketing" and gave some good points...but 75% of the reading was basic ideas.......
b
I would actually shy away from newsletters, postcards, and blogs if I was looking to become an employee at someone else's firm. Why? Because those are things that you would do to market your own business, which suggests to the employer that this is just temporary until you can get your own thing together.
I would go with a more traditional resume and teaser portfolio to show that you still remember how to be an employee. And of course, work your contacts!
I think rationalist makes a good point- it sounds like your presentation of yourself is skills based, but employers want to see that you are also willing and able to play the game/be an employee...
but I'm not sure how you would show them that, it almost needs to be someone else telling them that.
are you just looking to get access to bigger/better/different projects?
i just setup the "marketing" stuff for the company to hustle in work since i couldnt get hired......
if a place called me today and said "hey we need you on a project, when can you start".... i would start the next day......
but for the past 2 years or so, i've been fighting this whole "next level" step that i need to do..... i cant get IDP on my own.....
blog is for more personal concepts for the company/etc
forum is for college students and trying to lend out a hand
website is for portfolio/marketing/company
just a matter of time i guess.......
b
cryzko
you were the one with the sweet 'Vette, correct?
fro,
i would like to work on restaurants/clubs/lobby spaces/etc....
figure with my experience in exhibit engineering (cd's/development) that that would help support that cause..
my 3d modelling skills suck though so maybe that is what is holding me back.....
b
you are too independent to look good to an employer.
A few thoughts, cryzko:
1. Believe it or not, written communication skills are essential in our business. If you were to study something, I would suggest pursuing strategies to develop clarity in your ideas.
2. What can you "be the best in the world at?" There is a book called Good to Great that explores this topic. I've followed many of your posts and websites, but I have a hard time understanding your personal mission. It seems like you try a new idea every week and get frustrated often.
3. This was briefly mentioned above. To convince a potential employer that you are worth hiring, you must demonstrate that you can pick something and stick with it. It may help you to clarify and emphasize a common theme that exists in your work.
Good luck.
well, if there's one project i'm never putting into my portfolio to my potential employers its the one I'll actually build independent of a firm.
I swear to god i hate this industry sometimes.
mdler... yeah that was my vette.... might be selling it though.....not sure..
dca...
only reason i do "other things" is that i have to eat..... i dont have the financial backing to get the shop at the level i want it at, or have the loot to be able to hire people to help out/work/etc
i do get alot of ideas and do get frustrated on some days when i dont have anything to do...thats why i get into other things....
model building is a good hustle for me and thats the only thing that really pays any bills...(but the models are hard to come by)
reason i went into construction was to learn about it..... lvl's p=lams, trim,etc......
managed to get into the exhibit industry for a little bit and that was my niche' due to my background in construction....but that was a contract job for the autoshow rush.....
i started the clothing line so i could sell a product...... t-shirts and maybe a shoe line soon...would like to get my jewelry line going too.
only reason for all these "other" things is because i have to stay creative....... if i dont have something to do i'll go crazy and think of something else to start on.
i could be too independent but isnt that a good thing?...... if someone dropped a project in my hands and said "design up this restaurant space in a week"... you dont think i could manage...(besides looking up codes...but making sure everything is ADA)....
my mindset for design is a bit different i think...... i like to figure out the materials first then design..... so this way i'm working with a "kit of parts" and know that if i want to do a panel system then the panels i already wanted to use have the sizes so i would design with that....
i think having a firm understanding in design/construction is what employees of firms need to know........ get dirty and bang up some knuckles so you understand what that line you drew in cad really stands for.....
b
That's dangerous thinking cryzko, yes, employers say they want to see that but I firmly don't think that's the case.
it sounds like friends/contacts in the restaurant and club world would serve you better than IDP hours and be a hell of a lot more fun!
but that opinion could easily be influenced by the nature of my local building department, not sure how iit would work in the outside world....
....how IT would work.....
My ire has a name, and NCARB it is.
inly issue with that FRO.... i dont have my arch license/stamp......
i missed 2 restaurant projects because of that.......
it really sucks.......as much motivation i have but then dont have the "certificates/words" to go along with it.
it's a fight for me...... i take what i can get to build up the portfolio only to find out that i might be hurting myself in the end.
maybe i crossed that line that i'm no longer marketable as a "person" but more of a "service"
thanks for all the input so far.....
b
cryzko, i don't know everything, but i think there are some ways to get out of IDP, it takes alot of patience, but if you've been in private practice long enough and have taken the lic. exams I think there may be hope of getting an exception.
The other option is make a pro. portfolio out of a bunch of old school projects, then go to a firm as a person who has never worked in the field before (read: fresh grad). Only list internships/previous jobs/odd gigs and schools on your resume and list nothing regarding the last 7 years in private practice. Tell them you took a break from the industry and went overseas for a few years or something and now you're back and want to start fresh. Endure two years of internship hell, all the while not alerting your employers to your actual skill set. Get your IDP requirements in, then get the fuck out of there. Maybe even consider blowing town and getting reciprical licensure in another state, or you could pull an FLW and steal their clients.
It could be fun, like leading a double life. Bottom line, you're over-qualified for an internship position (which is basically what you need for IDP) and likely lack the general workplace skills garnered through years of suffering through an office job.
three words:
industrial design firm.
I think you might be happier there, anyway. You'd get to dabble in exhibit design, product design, graphics....... they might even see your clothing line as an asset.
Think about it. It might not be the exact route you're looking for, but with enough success in ID, there's no reason you couldn't get your foot in the door at a furniture/interior design company.
i think slantsix is def. onto something here
yeah... i did some work for exhibit works here in michigan....engineering/model/sculpture
thing about ID...is that you have to have an ID degree...been there and asked that...... they think a 5 year b.a. arch has no weight in ID..... plus i have no skills in rhino/viz/max/etc......
i'm pushing away here...... i need to get back on my funiture line and get that moving but need to prototype a few things.....grrrr....
its the 10vs1 battle.... can have 10 good things but the 1 thing you dont have is what matters...
b
i wish i had an answer for you cryzko.
am not sure why you can't get a position of some sort at an office...
could be plain bad luck.
the 10 to 1 thing i am not so sure about. that 1 thing would have to be pretty big to be a deal breaker...3d modeling skills certainly wouldn't be an issue to me (my partner can't do any of that and it has never been a problem for him).
without seeing your cv or portfolio the only thing that really comes to mind is that the broad nature of your interests might be putting employers off. it is hard to tell what you are interested in and whether you would be interested in sustaining a career with whoever you are applying to work with. it may help if you write an honest cover letter saying exactly what you are planning to do with your career...you know, have been doing x and y, but now have decided to pursue architecture in an office again and ready to commit to that path...
i would not try to cover up or hide the past. that would not work out i think; but i would also not use the model building, graphic design and self-build projects as the only selling point. to be honest, self build is fanastic, but the scope of what you have learned is still not as large as what you will need to know to work in an office. The projects most architecture offices work on are just much larger, so the knowledge you have gained will probably not impress as much as you'd hope (unless you have built an entire building on your own). It is a good base to work from though...which is why i am surprised you can't find a job that works for you...
keep at it. am certain you will get a job you like if you keep trying.
good luck, man.
Have you really found that industrial design companies require that much education? It's not even a regulated field, like architecture. The relationship between school and ID is probably the same as it was for school and architecture 100 years ago - some people studied it, others didn't, but it didn't prevent anybody from giving it a go. There's still no licensure, internship requirements, etc.
I think if you focused your portfolio to suit your strongest work and took jump's advice of writing an honest cover letter, you'd have a job soon enough. You might not get the $$$ you want right away, but you're obviously a hard worker and I'm sure you could work your way up the ladder if you wanted.
Now, the caveat is that none of us really know you - you could do all the right things and then show to an interview with a huge attitude or a giant booger hanging off your nose or whatever.... But certainly a portfolio that caters to your skills and experience will give you a start.
Think about the interviews you've had. What have you learned from them? How can you use the interview experience as a learning tool in order to secure a job?
cryzko,
Network...
is there an arch or ID firm who's work you appreciate? I see that you're not big into talking, but it wouldn't hurt to network. Take the the Architect or Designer to lunch (& pay) shoot them some questions about their work, get them to talk about themselves and ease in a discussion for their advice on "the next step" they may not offer you a position but architects know other architects. One good contact is better than no contacts. Cold calling isn't glamorous (& i'll prolly get berated for mentioning it... f**k 'em, it's the same as researching), just don't take being told "no" personally, it can give ya a thicker skin and eventually let you be exposed in the creative community in a positive, proactive light. Try it with a professor first if it sounds too... um, scary... their architects & designers, too or should at least know some.
Do the same with a banker, open a shop downtown & gain some capital. Even though your 'focus' maybe spiratic, the work you create does well for itself... Oh yeah, do the lunches regularly.
& if you need someone to help with marketing know a gal.
best of luck.
"that the broad nature of your interests might be putting employers off. it is hard to tell what you are interested in and whether you would be interested in sustaining a career with whoever you are applying to work with."
I think what jump said above may be a key point. As an employer, I wouldn't know what to make of you/how to best utilize you so that both you and I are happy. Your interests are all over the place. How do I know you won't get bored within a month or two because the work doesn't interest you or there's not enough diversity for you. You seem to like the diversity and no one likes a bored employee.
One thing I would do if I were you is that I would put my resume, cover letter, and portfolio together based on each individual I met with. Customize for every meeting. This way, if you are meeting with a more buttoned up place, I would not put my tees, products, etc. in it. They are not interested in that stuff. I would also, primarily if not entirely, focus your portfolio on your architecture work. Not much more. This is what your potential employer is interested in. Give them what they want if you really want that job.
With regards to needing an ID degree to work in an ID studio, that is not true. I've worked for a digital media/industrial design firm, and I don't have a degree in ID. I think most ID shops look for people who come at the problems of usability and form factors from a different perspective. They will hire people with backgrounds outside of ID.
Keep trying and best of luck.
have you tried contacting michael poris of macintosh poris? it's a small office, and he's a nice guy. worth getting in touch with at any rate - job or no job.
what about christian unverzagt at m1dtw? they're uber-design-build, but it may be hard to work through idp there.
with the lousy economy in se michigan, it's going to be hard finding much. the small firms are feeling it particularly tough.
let me know if i can help at all. we should grab another beer in any case.
cryzko
you should just roll up to an interview in the 'Vette with a lady on either arm...you know, all pimp style and all
you will get hired in a second
actually, maybe you should hot-rod out cars??? That was pretty sweet and Im sure that more people would want a nice car than a basswood model
thanks for the links and advice people
i'm gonna see what i can do about this starting today........
just a little stressed about this whole "career" thing and if i should have stayed in the office realm over the years..... cant change that now....so have to keep pushing along
b
brutal honesty: cryzko, i like you and all, but if i were on the employer side of things i'd also have to wonder if you'd get stir crazy and be bored by the daily grind that the office can be sometimes. jump and e have nailed it: that's what prospective employers are seeing in your work.
as a person of (admirable) action, you may not be cut out for the things i'd need: checking of hardware schedules; drawing of roof plans with the tapered insulation, gutters, and downspouts all figured out; detailed code review; etc. if you think you COULD do that, you need to frame the presentation of your resume and portfolio to communicate it better. if you think you couldn't, well... ?
there are some things at which you are obviously very skilled. but a lot of offices don't build models - or much of anything. we facilitate building that other people do. even the guys who concentrate on construction administration are paper-pushers - they just happen to have mud on their boots.
i could have sworn that larger firms have departments that would take care of your interests....
design
architecture
engineering/etc
i'm sure not everyone knows everything about architecture...thats why you tend to get in the area that you think you fit..... some might have the knowledge to fully detail a house or a small building....while other are designers working on larger projects.....
sure my "little" projects might be little but all in all, the fact that i did design/build/bid/etc through the process is a key factor.
time will tell i guess............. all i ever wanted to do is create...... ..
b
you are an entrepeneur cryz. stay with that follow your vision. the everyday architecture world is for monkeys man. your soul would be crushed faster than the junkyard crushes a k-car.
is the 1 thing you don't have what matters to them?...or is it what matters to you? are you using that as a polite excuse to explain why you haven't gotten a job? and yeah, detroit is tough...but is that just another crutch for you to lean on? i've known other people that have gotten jobs with firms in detroit so it's not exactly impossible. maybe it's time to dig deeper and re-evaluate yourself.
since i am only basing my assessment on your various forum comments, i suspect that your difficulty in finding a job with an architecture firm is largely the result of attitude. your posts here reek of it. you manage to sound full of yourself (talking about all the work you're doing) and, oddly enough, full of self-doubt (constantly whining about how you're still not successful)...yet you maintain a stubborn streak to keep grinding at it rather than change yourself...as if your core belief is that "street cred" is more important than the comforts of a bourgeois life. it's contradictory and confusing enough to make the head spin...
..and if any of that is being conveyed in an interview whether consciously or via subliminal body language or whatever then that's a problem. put yourself in an employer's shoes for a moment...now does any of the above sound like someone you'd like to hire and work with?
generally speaking, architecture firms have multiple candidates for any position that they offer, especially entry level spots for people looking to participate in idp or just do some drafting. maybe you're better than that (actually, nearly all of us are better than that) but you still have to suck it up and commit to the program. you are competing with other people for jobs and your attitude needs to convey that you want to be there and are happy and grateful for the opportunity to be there...otherwise, they'll pass on you and find someone else who is.
sucks?...probably yeah. if you want to be independent then you can be independent...but you've probably already noticed that has it's problems too.
but keep in mind that even a legendary lone wolf like chazz michael michaels had to make some compromises to get what he wanted...at least you don't have to wear tights and dance with another man in ice skates to get there.
cezanne was full of doubt and look what he managed to do. his paintings are in museums and replicated in jigsaw puzzles at the museum giftshop. his paintings sell for thousands of dollars that is if you can find one for sale!
but vado...cezanne never wanted to complete idp either.
i just want to get idp to get my stamp... thats it
sort of sad when i have friends that are registered and not doing a damn thing with it...... not even willing to lend some help to a friend......
it might seem like i have a bad attitude on this board.....but its the internet and an open forum...... and i do support my work and have to showcase what i'm doing every now and then....... no point in having a gold coin if the chest is always locked and closed....
i have comprimised over the years....... i have worked for "some-one else" and did what i had to do at the time........ you think working rough carpentry with 2 bad knees is fun....did that for 2.5 years spring/summer/fall/winter...... with the end being a knee surgury and not being able to return to rough carpentry on that level
all i do is push away........ make my couple bucks and wonder if i should mix the ramen noodles with the packet or with hot sauce just to change it up a bit......
i understand the issues of being on your own...... ups and downs..... but when you are looking for another outlet to be creative in and all you get is some excuses or b.s. issues then it gets a bit discouraging.......
sure i have friends that are making good money in the field and they are designing/etc....... would be cool to do that..... but my belief when i got out of college was to go a build..build..build....get all these attributes under my sleeve so i can be more marketable...... but all in all it back fired................
to each his/her own then.........
b
heres the link to the house that i helped work on for the 2.5 years... client also had a few other projects
http://www.sunriverinc.com/gallery/index.htm
sun river builders
full renovation..added the 3rd floor studio and roof deck..... built the garage and the yoga hut.......
my duties
rough/finish carpentry
fix detail issues
paint/stain/install
repair work
helped stack the foundations for the garage and the yoga hut
etc......
b
move someplace that aint got the idp
cryzko
that house is tight! move out to LA and show the mexicans how its done
or if you like to build just work for a construction firm. get yer contractors license save some caish. buy a pickup with duellies and pipes paint yer name on the side and become a design builder.
i am a licensed builder.......
i would like to end this thread after my post..........
thanks for the words and suggestions from everyone
take care
b
I'm not letting it end!!!
For what it's worth, I recently gave up on IDP because I just want to create stuff. The single-minded effort of 'the path to licensure' was killing me creatively. I still work my day job as the only employee of a sole practitioner architect, but last week I made $600 dollars selling t-shirts i designed and printed in my living room. Selling them out of a backpack. Most fun I've had making money in years.
just throwin it out there...
where I live, you could easily (with some connections and hustle) design and build an entire restaurant interior without even a driver's license.
cryz - i don't think you know how boring it is to be an entry or mid level architect. We recently interviewed a guy who had gone to architecture school, but had only worked in construction and real estate, never in a traditional architectural setting. He just wouldn't have fit in! (read, too INDEPENDENT). Plus he would have cut his pay in half if he came to work for us. We just knew he had a poor shot at being happy.
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