the paintings of zaha are quite different than what is being discussed here. that work is the content that i am referring to. if one can produce the content then packaging the content is just that packaging. what is being bypassed is not the creative work but the packaging and presentation of that creative work. lets say you are a painter. an archaic craft i know, but lets say you have spent months putting together several works for a gallery show. should you also be required to photograph the work, layout the catalog for the work, take it to the printer. go to the post office with a bulk mail tray and send off the announcements for the show? no? agreed. same difference.
Please don't assume my agreement. You did not address the important distinction between the professional and academic contexts.
Also, this is architecture not art. Communication of information is a large part of what we do, and the presentation of building designs is no exception.
Well, that would be similar if this painter was actually asked to do all of those things (you listed) in order to be accepted into school. The point (that you have missed consecutively) is that the portfolio is supposed to represent th work and also is sitting next to hundreds of portfolios that WERE made by architecture students representing themselves.
one can communicate design genius in many ways. what we have here is the perceived requirement that all architecturewannabe's must submit a portfolio of work that is formatted using expensive materials and incredible amounts of time and money. in fact, these techniques really serve to hide the flaws and weaknesses of the content. how many times have you seen fancy graphic presentations that are completely empty of any ideas? usually the fancier the graphics the weaker the project. ideas can stand on their own. submit your fucking portfolio on a cocktail napkin. if the work is good enough, you'll get in. spend all the time and money putting icing on your shitcake and your cake will still taste like shit.
Wow! A bit bitter? Also, what's your obsession with genius?
Imagine this............a very thoughtful portfolio made out of inexpensive materials that express design abilities, preferences and qualities?
Who said that portfolios have to be expensive? It may say something about this creative genius that you keep talking about. Pero, if anything makes portfolios expensive it would have to be paying someone else to do it for you.
ok, this thing has gotten out of control a little, and I just can't stand to read allllll of it... I just wanted to clarify to vado that my objection is to calling graphic designers "monkeys". If what they are looking for is graphic production help, that's one thing, and that person could be argued to be a monkey. But it seems like they are looking for someone to design their portfolio for them, in which case that person is not a monkey.
vado - why do you think this person is a genius? it seems to me they are just lazy. as the saying goes: genius is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. They seem to be falling at least 99% short right Now.
Usually, arguing your point is a good way to further a discussion. Making irrelevant, arrogant remarks hardly exhibit genius or wisdom. And I would have to disagree that the perception is that architectural students are to outsource their design and labor of their portfolio.
vado, by any chance was it you who posted the add? everything you've said points to this (including labelling the poster a genius followed by "the first step of genius is declaring oneself so").
one must sometimes play devil's advocate to those who are so outraged that someone may choose a different path to get their desired results. talk of porn spam etc, and the martyrdom of spending time and money on a portfolio while another may hire a "master" to assist them is quite recockulous indeed. the fact is that architecture is and has always been a rich boy's game rather than some meritocracy. the rich kid's go skiing in switzerland over the break while you work at arby's. they go work in exotic locales for the flavor of the month starchitect while you will draw stair details for the local motel 6. that's fucking life kids. get used to it and stomp your sour grapes yasself. unless you can hire someone grape stomping monkey to do it for you.
Who's shrugging shoulders? I certainly don't advocate ignorance. But I also don't advocate complaining. Note: complaining is not the only way to be concerned.
Ignorant! Of course people with money have used that to their advantage for a very long time. So, I don't care about people going to Switzerland. Such pompous statements are surprising from someone that has made it past high school.
firstly, i sincerely doubt that vado posted the ad.
secondly, hypothetically speaking..but if paris hilton decided to become an architect, i would be willing to put money on two certainties 1- she would be good at it & produce more notable works of architecture than a dozen "do-all-the-work-yourself-architects" combined...and 2- 99% of the posters in this peanut gallery would be wickedly jealous of her and sumptiosuly bitter about it.
lastly...this thread is genius! and architects wonder why b-school grads and developers are running circles around them? get a clue kids.
ps- vado,i'm posting from this f'in blackberry right now so i'll have to email you later...juan, just showed up with all the girls...gotta run!
from the latin for "...making fun of reality in funny way and not intended to be taken too seriously cuz that would just be silly now wouldn't it..."
i think the ad is a joke...and if it isn't i don't care. nothing to do with me or any of us.
some of you fantasy fans might have heard of boris vallejo. he faked his portfolio to get a job in NY when young. then couldn't do the work, so was fired. but he caught up.
but if we were being less cynical and in a forgiving mood we can also say the ad-maker is pretty much looking for someone to teach him/her how to get into grad school, not do it for him/her. its an advanced tutorial in writing and graphic design...
even if that isn't the case...who cares? i am not apathetic, this is just so not important.
Wow! You guys are a bunch of millionaires in the making, huh? Paris Hilton is basically retarded and it is hard to imagine anyone would say something like that other than to get a rise out of people.
Whoa, you have a Blackberry? How much did that cost? Hopefully I can afford one some day........................Why isn't it an Iphone?
Developer make money because they care about nothing else besides money, follow trends and profit on poor neighborhoods. Maybe, I would be more wowed if developers put another 30-40 story residential tower in Midtown Manhattan?!
"someone who is extremely familiar with crafting a letter of intent for specific programs."
This is the most unethical part. It's evident he/she can't design or write and really does not even know how to explain how he/she is compatible with the respective program.
it is also really strange that this kid doesn't have the discipline to do it on their own. I would never let anyone even remotely close to even touching my academic work. It is mine. It is representative of who I am and what I can do. It's pretty pathetic and spineless to not even have the courage to be the author of something that is completely yours. Have some balls! If you fail take the failure full force.
minimalicious is right. Even if this person doesn't have a design background -- and therefore feels they need someone who does to oversee layout and production of the portfolio -- the essay portion of the application is the opportunity to showcase what else they have to offer (fire,creativity,humor,originality,etc.)
At that point, what is left? The applicant's work? Good work isn't required to get into architecture grad school -- the critics are looking for any sign of promise. (So many MArch I's are from non-arch backgrounds).
We know how this goes down: The critic looks at this stuff says, "hmm. work not strong -- but the layout points to someone with a real understanding of space on the page. And that essay shows that they really want to come here for the right reasons."
We all met people in school whose graphic skills alone (to say nothing of writing ability) could get anyone in anywhere. And the idea that this person could be sifting through THEIR portfolios right now to pick the most capable, is pretty gross.
We should put down the free-market theatrics in this case.
We all worry that this person has a day job in HR and has just now decided to get into architecture school. And with an ad posting like this they will. Regardless of their work. No offense to anyone in HR. Great job. Smart people.
I don't think anybody in HR would ever misspell application on a job posting.
but really, the kid will eventually have to perform. he or she, imaginary it, or whatever, WILL have to perform. so at some point in time the whole deal will backfire.
Portfolio and Grad School Aplication "Master"
Agreed...........
the paintings of zaha are quite different than what is being discussed here. that work is the content that i am referring to. if one can produce the content then packaging the content is just that packaging. what is being bypassed is not the creative work but the packaging and presentation of that creative work. lets say you are a painter. an archaic craft i know, but lets say you have spent months putting together several works for a gallery show. should you also be required to photograph the work, layout the catalog for the work, take it to the printer. go to the post office with a bulk mail tray and send off the announcements for the show? no? agreed. same difference.
Please don't assume my agreement. You did not address the important distinction between the professional and academic contexts.
Also, this is architecture not art. Communication of information is a large part of what we do, and the presentation of building designs is no exception.
Well, that would be similar if this painter was actually asked to do all of those things (you listed) in order to be accepted into school. The point (that you have missed consecutively) is that the portfolio is supposed to represent th work and also is sitting next to hundreds of portfolios that WERE made by architecture students representing themselves.
And I do not know how you can say that painting is archaic. It is definietly different than architecture, but archaic?
one can communicate design genius in many ways. what we have here is the perceived requirement that all architecturewannabe's must submit a portfolio of work that is formatted using expensive materials and incredible amounts of time and money. in fact, these techniques really serve to hide the flaws and weaknesses of the content. how many times have you seen fancy graphic presentations that are completely empty of any ideas? usually the fancier the graphics the weaker the project. ideas can stand on their own. submit your fucking portfolio on a cocktail napkin. if the work is good enough, you'll get in. spend all the time and money putting icing on your shitcake and your cake will still taste like shit.
then why pay someone else for the fancy graphics?
because that is the perception of what is required. perhaps that is what is required. and if it is there is no reason to go to architecture school.
Wow! A bit bitter? Also, what's your obsession with genius?
Imagine this............a very thoughtful portfolio made out of inexpensive materials that express design abilities, preferences and qualities?
Who said that portfolios have to be expensive? It may say something about this creative genius that you keep talking about. Pero, if anything makes portfolios expensive it would have to be paying someone else to do it for you.
ok, this thing has gotten out of control a little, and I just can't stand to read allllll of it... I just wanted to clarify to vado that my objection is to calling graphic designers "monkeys". If what they are looking for is graphic production help, that's one thing, and that person could be argued to be a monkey. But it seems like they are looking for someone to design their portfolio for them, in which case that person is not a monkey.
..........to add onto rationalists comment......
heirarchy does not determine value or genius.
vado - why do you think this person is a genius? it seems to me they are just lazy. as the saying goes: genius is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. They seem to be falling at least 99% short right Now.
using someone else's perspiration. the american way.
Usually, arguing your point is a good way to further a discussion. Making irrelevant, arrogant remarks hardly exhibit genius or wisdom. And I would have to disagree that the perception is that architectural students are to outsource their design and labor of their portfolio.
vado, by any chance was it you who posted the add? everything you've said points to this (including labelling the poster a genius followed by "the first step of genius is declaring oneself so").
Kids, meet vado.
Vado, kids.
funny
one must sometimes play devil's advocate to those who are so outraged that someone may choose a different path to get their desired results. talk of porn spam etc, and the martyrdom of spending time and money on a portfolio while another may hire a "master" to assist them is quite recockulous indeed. the fact is that architecture is and has always been a rich boy's game rather than some meritocracy. the rich kid's go skiing in switzerland over the break while you work at arby's. they go work in exotic locales for the flavor of the month starchitect while you will draw stair details for the local motel 6. that's fucking life kids. get used to it and stomp your sour grapes yasself. unless you can hire someone grape stomping monkey to do it for you.
It's all true!
Sad, but why waste time complaining? The rich certainly don't think about you.
There's only one thing worse than people who exacerbate a problem: the people who shrug their shoulders and tell people that's just the way it is.
vado...you're clearly a genius short of a mensa meeting.
Who's shrugging shoulders? I certainly don't advocate ignorance. But I also don't advocate complaining. Note: complaining is not the only way to be concerned.
Oh, and there's one thing worse than a complainer: the "there's one thing worse" guy.
Ignorant! Of course people with money have used that to their advantage for a very long time. So, I don't care about people going to Switzerland. Such pompous statements are surprising from someone that has made it past high school.
firstly, i sincerely doubt that vado posted the ad.
secondly, hypothetically speaking..but if paris hilton decided to become an architect, i would be willing to put money on two certainties 1- she would be good at it & produce more notable works of architecture than a dozen "do-all-the-work-yourself-architects" combined...and 2- 99% of the posters in this peanut gallery would be wickedly jealous of her and sumptiosuly bitter about it.
lastly...this thread is genius! and architects wonder why b-school grads and developers are running circles around them? get a clue kids.
ps- vado,i'm posting from this f'in blackberry right now so i'll have to email you later...juan, just showed up with all the girls...gotta run!
vado is being ironic.
from the latin for "...making fun of reality in funny way and not intended to be taken too seriously cuz that would just be silly now wouldn't it..."
i think the ad is a joke...and if it isn't i don't care. nothing to do with me or any of us.
some of you fantasy fans might have heard of boris vallejo. he faked his portfolio to get a job in NY when young. then couldn't do the work, so was fired. but he caught up.
but if we were being less cynical and in a forgiving mood we can also say the ad-maker is pretty much looking for someone to teach him/her how to get into grad school, not do it for him/her. its an advanced tutorial in writing and graphic design...
even if that isn't the case...who cares? i am not apathetic, this is just so not important.
garpike - vado was figuratively shrugging his shoulders. I wasn't talking to or about you, so don't take it so personally.
Wow! You guys are a bunch of millionaires in the making, huh? Paris Hilton is basically retarded and it is hard to imagine anyone would say something like that other than to get a rise out of people.
Whoa, you have a Blackberry? How much did that cost? Hopefully I can afford one some day........................Why isn't it an Iphone?
Developer make money because they care about nothing else besides money, follow trends and profit on poor neighborhoods. Maybe, I would be more wowed if developers put another 30-40 story residential tower in Midtown Manhattan?!
"someone who is extremely familiar with crafting a letter of intent for specific programs."
This is the most unethical part. It's evident he/she can't design or write and really does not even know how to explain how he/she is compatible with the respective program.
it is also really strange that this kid doesn't have the discipline to do it on their own. I would never let anyone even remotely close to even touching my academic work. It is mine. It is representative of who I am and what I can do. It's pretty pathetic and spineless to not even have the courage to be the author of something that is completely yours. Have some balls! If you fail take the failure full force.
minimalicious is right. Even if this person doesn't have a design background -- and therefore feels they need someone who does to oversee layout and production of the portfolio -- the essay portion of the application is the opportunity to showcase what else they have to offer (fire,creativity,humor,originality,etc.)
At that point, what is left? The applicant's work? Good work isn't required to get into architecture grad school -- the critics are looking for any sign of promise. (So many MArch I's are from non-arch backgrounds).
We know how this goes down: The critic looks at this stuff says, "hmm. work not strong -- but the layout points to someone with a real understanding of space on the page. And that essay shows that they really want to come here for the right reasons."
We all met people in school whose graphic skills alone (to say nothing of writing ability) could get anyone in anywhere. And the idea that this person could be sifting through THEIR portfolios right now to pick the most capable, is pretty gross.
We should put down the free-market theatrics in this case.
We all worry that this person has a day job in HR and has just now decided to get into architecture school. And with an ad posting like this they will. Regardless of their work. No offense to anyone in HR. Great job. Smart people.
I don't think anybody in HR would ever misspell application on a job posting.
but really, the kid will eventually have to perform. he or she, imaginary it, or whatever, WILL have to perform. so at some point in time the whole deal will backfire.
unless this is a joke.
in which case We are the performance.
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