"With a typical cost of $8,000 to $10,000 to purchase and install, Skystream 3.7 can pay for itself in 5 to 12 years." (from some site called Treehugger).
Hey, that's great. According to a story on NPR, windmills are gaining popularity in Texas. The Texans explain it this way: when it gets too hot on the plains, they flip a switch and the 'fans' cool everything down.
Big.
Next thing you'll tell me: Bob Dylan promotes Escalades.
Does anybody know if you can install them in urban areas, LA for example? I will check the building code later but any firsthand experience with the red tape is appreciated. This makes perfect sense for a client with a windy site and an e-car in the Hollywood hills (leaf blowers are definitely more noisy, so all you leaf blowing neighbors please shut up!).
the problems that wind turbines have in urban areas are noise (mostly when the wind blows too fast) and chunks of ice falling from the blades. The second isn't an issue in LA.
The biggest hurdle for installing a turbine is getting a height zoning variance - most turbines need to be 30 to 50' above the surrounding stuff to get non-turbulent wind. Also there are FAA regs for maximum heights in many parts of the southland. Most domestic turbines are about 30 meter (1oo feet) tall, while commercial turbines are 2x to 3x taller
But the LA basin isn't a prime wind site - the maps show that your average wind power is less then 100w/m2. 500w/m2 is typically the minimum for commercial generation. Off shore by santa barbara looks promising...
Never built any or installed any yet but have had a few conversations with consultants about them so far. Also I've been reading up on them (thanks to Mother Earth News) and been to a few seminars/lunch-n-learns on the topics. Drop me an email if you have a project that need a consultant - I'll see if I can link you up with the experts (I folks to call in california, mn/wi and the northeast).
Thanks treekiller! good point about the non-turbulent wind. I guess we should really push the PV, solar heating and orientation options in SoCal. I just love wind turbines
claiming higher performing then traditional propellers of similar height and it also has less risk of bird strikes due to slower speed.
remember that power is the square of the swept area of the turbine - so doubling the diameter of the propellers quadruples the power output. the aerogenerator would sweep an area that's about 2.6 m sf to generate 9mW. that's lots of juice...
the other SoCal option is to use thermal mass for cooling since most days the temp drops at night and there is great radiant cooling potential compared to the humid eastern half of the country...
There is also several off peak cooling options that create ice at night and then cool with it during peak afternoon heat (this just cuts electric bills, doesn't reduce total consumption and probably increases over electric use in the creation of ice.
reducing the urban heat island is another critical step to chase in LA...
gore's home state of TN is waiting to get a 'Validated' high resolution wind power map- guess that means that the potential hasn't been very good, especially in nashville. from my months in that town, it wasn't very windy. So most likely, mr. president gore doesn't even dream about having his own wind turbine over the 10k sf mansion he calls home/office...
still, chuck norris would have a tornado as a wind turbine, so al just needs a dyson...
I posted this pic on Green Thread Central awhile ago. This is a wind turbine blade I saw in transit on the freeway. It was honestly one of the most sublimely beautiful things I've ever seen - the shape looks so intentional and perfect, plus it's huge yet graceful.
Doubt I could get a variance to install one this big in my neighborhood, though.
From the installations I've come in contact with the comments above are right on. Most people don't seem to be using them for more than gadget geekery - power generating wind turbines are only good in very specific applications/locations. Beyond the difficulties that have been previously mentioned, turbines also require regular maintenance which involves climbing the tower, they all seem to make the zzzzzzzzing noise, and are only really well suited to grid-tied applications in windy locations. Using turbines off-grid means having a massive battery array for backup power. Probably the best way to harness wind power remains windmill driven mechanical water pumping or similar operations that can be done with low or intermittent winds.
i've researched this a little. kentucky in general's not looking so good for wind power. eastern ky show up because of the mountains.
i'm hoping to see some data (maybe with the 'validated map'?) that shows what we feel here in louisville: it sure seems like a good constant blow comes down the channel formed between the bluffs of the ohio river valley.
Janosh- that seems to be the consensus of the homesteaders and alt-energy crowd. (I posted that link too). Also insulate, insulate, insulate (i'm guilty of not doing this in my rental), then go for daylighting, and reducing all other energy loads through unplugging and efficient appliances. If you want to be LEED certified, you can't smoke indoors...
I'll post up some pics of a couple of West Texas wind farms in a couple of weeks when schools over. There's one outside of Justiceburg with 1000+ turbines running.
George H.W. Bush installs wind turbine for electricity at Kennebunkport
He ain't no dumby!
Writing on the wall etc....
sailors have been using wind turbines for 100+ years. the problem with w is that he's a landlubber.
Yeah .. .but, it's daddy's house and he's no landlubber.
so I looked up the Skystream 3.7.
"With a typical cost of $8,000 to $10,000 to purchase and install, Skystream 3.7 can pay for itself in 5 to 12 years." (from some site called Treehugger).
Those things are getting cheaper. I want one.
cooptation like the green capitalists me thinks who want to continue to be the owners of a privileged society in excess
Hey, that's great. According to a story on NPR, windmills are gaining popularity in Texas. The Texans explain it this way: when it gets too hot on the plains, they flip a switch and the 'fans' cool everything down.
Big.
Next thing you'll tell me: Bob Dylan promotes Escalades.
Does anybody know if you can install them in urban areas, LA for example? I will check the building code later but any firsthand experience with the red tape is appreciated. This makes perfect sense for a client with a windy site and an e-car in the Hollywood hills (leaf blowers are definitely more noisy, so all you leaf blowing neighbors please shut up!).
the problems that wind turbines have in urban areas are noise (mostly when the wind blows too fast) and chunks of ice falling from the blades. The second isn't an issue in LA.
The biggest hurdle for installing a turbine is getting a height zoning variance - most turbines need to be 30 to 50' above the surrounding stuff to get non-turbulent wind. Also there are FAA regs for maximum heights in many parts of the southland. Most domestic turbines are about 30 meter (1oo feet) tall, while commercial turbines are 2x to 3x taller
But the LA basin isn't a prime wind site - the maps show that your average wind power is less then 100w/m2. 500w/m2 is typically the minimum for commercial generation. Off shore by santa barbara looks promising...
Other maps for the rest of the US are available from EERE in the Department of Energy
Wow, treekiller, you rock. Thanks for dropping the knowledge.
no problemo - anymore questions on where to situate turbine or PV panels?
Seriously, treekiller -- are you in possession of some expertise on wind turbines? I need to get my learn on.
Never built any or installed any yet but have had a few conversations with consultants about them so far. Also I've been reading up on them (thanks to Mother Earth News) and been to a few seminars/lunch-n-learns on the topics. Drop me an email if you have a project that need a consultant - I'll see if I can link you up with the experts (I folks to call in california, mn/wi and the northeast).
TK - LEED-AP
Thanks treekiller! good point about the non-turbulent wind. I guess we should really push the PV, solar heating and orientation options in SoCal. I just love wind turbines
I'm a fan too! have you seen the aerogenerator developed in part by Grimshaw?
[img]http://www.ministryoftech.com/images/aerogenerator.jpg[/i]
claiming higher performing then traditional propellers of similar height and it also has less risk of bird strikes due to slower speed.
remember that power is the square of the swept area of the turbine - so doubling the diameter of the propellers quadruples the power output. the aerogenerator would sweep an area that's about 2.6 m sf to generate 9mW. that's lots of juice...
the other SoCal option is to use thermal mass for cooling since most days the temp drops at night and there is great radiant cooling potential compared to the humid eastern half of the country...
There is also several off peak cooling options that create ice at night and then cool with it during peak afternoon heat (this just cuts electric bills, doesn't reduce total consumption and probably increases over electric use in the creation of ice.
reducing the urban heat island is another critical step to chase in LA...
there we go...
So...does al gore have one of these already...or should stortinget reconsider their peace prize and give it to g.h.w.bush instead?
gore's home state of TN is waiting to get a 'Validated' high resolution wind power map- guess that means that the potential hasn't been very good, especially in nashville. from my months in that town, it wasn't very windy. So most likely, mr. president gore doesn't even dream about having his own wind turbine over the 10k sf mansion he calls home/office...
still, chuck norris would have a tornado as a wind turbine, so al just needs a dyson...
Treekiller...
You are a Green god..
No seriously, always with the helpful info.
I posted this pic on Green Thread Central awhile ago. This is a wind turbine blade I saw in transit on the freeway. It was honestly one of the most sublimely beautiful things I've ever seen - the shape looks so intentional and perfect, plus it's huge yet graceful.
Doubt I could get a variance to install one this big in my neighborhood, though.
From the installations I've come in contact with the comments above are right on. Most people don't seem to be using them for more than gadget geekery - power generating wind turbines are only good in very specific applications/locations. Beyond the difficulties that have been previously mentioned, turbines also require regular maintenance which involves climbing the tower, they all seem to make the zzzzzzzzing noise, and are only really well suited to grid-tied applications in windy locations. Using turbines off-grid means having a massive battery array for backup power. Probably the best way to harness wind power remains windmill driven mechanical water pumping or similar operations that can be done with low or intermittent winds.
Fabulous wind resource maps can be found here:
www.eere.energy.gov/windandhydro/windpoweringamerica/wind_maps.asp
Treekiller - seems like most folks are best off starting with solar water heating and leaving power generation till later, no?
i've researched this a little. kentucky in general's not looking so good for wind power. eastern ky show up because of the mountains.
i'm hoping to see some data (maybe with the 'validated map'?) that shows what we feel here in louisville: it sure seems like a good constant blow comes down the channel formed between the bluffs of the ohio river valley.
Janosh- that seems to be the consensus of the homesteaders and alt-energy crowd. (I posted that link too). Also insulate, insulate, insulate (i'm guilty of not doing this in my rental), then go for daylighting, and reducing all other energy loads through unplugging and efficient appliances. If you want to be LEED certified, you can't smoke indoors...
I'll post up some pics of a couple of West Texas wind farms in a couple of weeks when schools over. There's one outside of Justiceburg with 1000+ turbines running.
california is the #1 state for installed wind power
texas is #2 and minnesota is close behind at #3 for amount of power generated...
have a few pics of the wind farms between LA and Palm Springs that are worth posting too.
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