I think you put the volunteer work on a form, get the signatures and send it in. Am I missing something?

Maybe I'm missing something & making it more complicated than it needs to be. I don't work in a traditional NCARB-sanctioned environment, and I've only been able to submit experience that falls within the (very very restrictive) rules. Essentially, I'd have to either make up a new "period of employment" and pretend that I did all my charity work within that time, or see if they'll accept the fact that I've done volunteer work on my own, and am, in fact, more likely to have time for such if I am not working full-time. My mentor will sign off on anything and is familiar with the work I've done.
Does everyone just fudge this stuff? I've been out of school almost 10 years and compiled the early parts of my career for a one-shot submission, hoping to take exam soon. i hate to get held up longer because I'm "missing" something that has absolutely nothing to do with the exam.

I don't know that it is an answer anyone here can give you. I would call and tell them you failed to include your volunteer work on your forms, and ask what you can do to retroactively include it. Maybe it means refilling out the form from the time period you did the volunteer work and and resubmitting it. Maybe it means filling out an additional form, that retroactively shows just the volunteer work, even if it is simultaneous to a form you already sent it. If you can get thru to NCARB and get a clear direction on what they will accept, you are golden! I called NCARB myself this morning and had some success - maybe it is a good day to call. Good luck.

Thanks. I actually did receive an individual's voice mail today, which is promising. Otherwise it's been that recording that says "wait" for 10 or 12 minutes and then shoots you into voice mail that I think never gets checked.
Hard to know whether NCARB just wants you to fill out the form or actually do meaningful work. I was just looking at the descriptions of eligible activities, and one of them is "Professional Delineation." WTF?
However, if that means drawing (delineating?) for money (professional) then I really am golden! English is my first language, and I have such a hard time reading this stuff. I keep telling myself the exam will be a breeze compared to this step.
I really appreciate your help. New to this, but will probably be around more as I move into exam-taking....famous last words....

I used the delineation category a lot. I had to do plenty of as-builts and standard details because there wasn't any real work to do sometimes. I only think that's what is supposed to go in that category, maybe it's not.

last time I had to talk to NCARB it wasn't hard to reach a real person - if you have a name from prior correspondence, ask for that person.

'professional delineation' for community service may mean pro-bono design work. But it only matters if your mentor signs off and you can get the time retroactively applied to the training period.

You're in a sticky grey area of being self-employed as an architectural intern. All forms of non-traditional architectural employment throws ncarb and the local state boards for a loop which really sucks....

I didn't take professional delineation to mean volunteer. ooops. Is it?

I dunno. It is listed as an example on the "Community Service" page of the handbook. I still don't know what it means.
Yeah, I am up the creek with the type of work I do. But I had hoped NCARB was the tougher gatekeeper. Now it's crossing my mind that the State (VA) may be more strict, in which case I'm screwed. The letter I just got from NCARB includes an advisory about the State Board. Does everyone get that?
I left working in a big firm because I was getting no construction experience. (I actually asked them once if they were keeping me from going on jobsites because I'm too pretty)
So I started working freelance, or whatever you call it. Also had some periods of illness (stress largely exacerbated by working in big firm environment) So I have been really worried that my record looks patchy. And it's so ironic, because I have gotten the BEST construction experience, worked much much closer with an actual live breathing mentor (several, in fact) than I ever would have at a firm. At least no firm I've ever heard of.
Here's my manifesto, of sorts, in case anyone's interested
link
Did I do that right? I'll check. I thought it was a pretty hot essay on the topic of professional identity for interns.

I just looked it up. Professional Delineation is one of many misc catch alls that you can put time in under Category D, landscape arch is another example. Volunteer/Community work is also under Category D. That's all. Prof. Del. is not under Volunteer.

well, one thing is for certain hugon0, you are certainly too pretty! ;-)

Yeah I'm self employed and still have to fill that slot myself. Not sure how I'm going to do that.... I suppose it would help if I knew what qualified... if I figure it out I'll let you know.

Do you really need to be employed by an architect while pursuing the community service?

hungon0

Just read your essay. Awesome. Couldn't agree more. I'm still on the fence about getting my license. Half of me doesn't want to do just because if I do then I have to play their games, and I resent it. But if I really want to make a change the strongest position would be from within... I fear once I'm licensed I'll become complacent (and busy) and won't follow through on actually addressing the problems in our system.

you're right, psycho. i had similar resentments but, after licensure, i didn't have the spirit or time to deal with them any more.

Hey thanks Psycho!
It was a few years ago, but I guess my tune hasn't changed too much. In fact, some of the so-called experience I'll be applying under that category will be for working on the next 2 years of ArchVoices essay contest. (Funny, I got perfect scores and feedback, but they only gave me Honorable Mention--but I guess I was good enough to invite back to be on the committee!) Point being, those sorts of activities are ideal (committees, boards) and I loved the idea of the ArchVoices contest, not only because the prize was the exact dollar amount of the exam fee (to spend however you like) but also because it gave younger professionals a forum in which to discuss such issues in a productive way.
As for the second part of your first post, read it and weep! In the IDP handbook they actually state that volunteer activities must be performed within an approved training setting! I try so hard not to bitch about this process, but if anyone thinks that policy is conducive to encouraging altruism, well, you know....
And for some reason, they do include the "Professional Delineation" on that same page, under the lengthy disclaimer about IDP NOT wanting to be restrictive. Maybe it's a catch-all because it's the last category? Either way, it's unclear.
Hopefully I'll hear from them today, and will keep you posted on progress. It's the only thing missing from my record!
As for the resentment part, I just try to repress that. Getting the license will be the best F-U to a system that actively discourages creativity, not to mention women, people with disabilities...the list goes on.

OK Steven, you're my hero!

doesn't feel like an admirable position, hugon0. after all the time invested preparing and taking the stupidest-test-ever-offered, and after multiple letters of protest to ncarb, i wish i still had the energy to fight from the 'registered' side for a better system. it's just broken.

but, after having invested (wasted?) so much time then, i can't believe it'll be worth it to invest MORE now. ncarb is formidable simply because they don't have anything to lose by standing still and deflecting criticism; but every hour i might spend arguing with them is potentially an hour lost, for no benefit.

i'm not proud of it.

you could join mapa and save a modern building in jeopardy!

Great so I have to get a part time job for 6 months or a full time job for 2 months just so I can get credit for 10 days of community service. That makes sense. Community service is community service why on earth do you have to be employed by an architect for it to count? Am I totally paranoid for thinking this is directly intended to keep a steady supply of cheap laborers?

You know what I think the fundamental problem with IDP is? It places the responsibilty upon the intern over things which they have no control. If they want this to work at all doesn't the employer need to have some accountability? I was in a design position at one firm, all I did was design, when I asked for more involvement though out the process, seeing my projects through to completion, I was tole "That's not going to happen." So I quit and I work for myself now.

I think mentoring and development of employees is hugely important and does not get taken very seriously. Unfortunately I don't see IDP as doing much to imrpove that. It's sort of an empty gesture and possibly counter productive in it's implimentation. I guess rather than bitch I should sit down and come up with a solution to present.

Just got off the phone with NCARB, and they really just want me to tell them to move points into the proper column so that I can be done with this. Then I get to wait a minimum of 80 days for someone to move papers from one place to another, then wait for a letter and an invitation to take the exam (knock on wood)
However, I just noticed in the IDP Handbook a training category "FF" which allows 10 units of "professional or community service when not in the settings described in A, B C..." So I guess that is a loophole of sorts, though it does contradict what they say later in the book. Go figure. My philosophy so far has been to take it easy on the people who have to enforce these rules (even they know that it's dumb) and don't expect too much out of the system.
Maybe by becoming licensed and not becoming part of the corrupt system, that does change things from within. At least I think that people who come in contact with architects like us who have, dare I say, a broader range of experience than those from many big firms, they'll have a better opinion (not to mention better description) of what architects do. If we let ourselves be defined by the bureaucratic doublespeak, then we're doomed to a cycle of resentment, as someone said above. I sure didn't go into this field for the money, so I might as well enjoy the work rather than waste energy on resentment.
Every profession has this BS to put up with. Realtors, acupuncturists, etc. and it's only getting worse as more of these national organizations add layers of (money-generating) requirements to licensure, but it's a fact of life.
But I still ain't joining the AIA.....

i'm an aia fan. and they have their own issues with ncarb.

The other area in the IDP requirements that sounds like a contradiction is the direct supervision"

"To earn training units in settings A through E if you were not an employee of the organization in which you received your training, you must submit evidence that you were nonetheless working under the direct supervision of the person overseeing your work. NCARB conditions do not recognize work performed by "independent contractors" as defined by the U.S. Department of Labor."

If I read the US Department of Labor's definition of "independent contractors" correctly, the only alternative is to be an employee, so why is there a provision for submitting evidence that you were supervised without being an employee?

Unless they are saying you can work for free with no record of employement OR independant contractor status.

Or is this a provision for someone who is employed by one firm but working under the supervision of another (like design firm employees working in house at the architect of records office)?

Or is it meant to be vague and confusing so we can submit under some kind of a loophole?