I'm considering leaving my current job to go out on my own. I'm planning on going back to school in Fall '08 so I'd only have to make it work for about 9 months. I have a few residential projects lined up and have talked to a few firms around town (with soft commitments) about doing some independent contract work to fill in the voids. I've already been added to my wife's insurance, so I won't have to worry about that.
My question is, what are you ICors typically charging per hour for your contract work? Or are you doing it as lump sums for set deliverables?
It's scary and exciting and everthing seems to be indicating that this plan might actually work. Am i deluding myself?
It sounds like a great situation, to have a limited time to sustain yourself, sort of testing the waters. My partner did the same thing, 12 years later he's still out on his own (with me now). And the insurance deal via your wife makes a HUGE difference.
I've talked to a few people about contract drafting recently - not for us, but other people who are looking for work. It sounds like $30-50/hr is pretty common. In our firm, we bill drafting time at $60/hr.
I like working for myself, but my problems are aplenty. Firstly, maintaining progressive clientele: being cheaper tan an Architects means you attract "the wingnuts" and ugly projects. I also have trouble balancing the books sometimes,..I wish I had gone to business school some days. Most weeks I work more than I would bill out...so I am learning the hard way about non billable hours, I guess. Lets see, IDP is a good reason not to work for your self too long as well. No one cares if ou deem yourslef worthy of entrepnuiral endeavors. NOt Architects, not Grad Schools, and certainly not NCARB!. So don;t expect any props just for being independent. Also, I have kind of screwed myself in that , if a firm isn;t doing anything cool or even using good softwares ( Revit Rhino) I probably won;t be able to work there. You get spoiled.
As for rates, I charge 1/2 of what my Architect friends in town charge per hour. I tell my clients I am not an Architect, so I have less overhead and no insurance. This is reflected in my CDs as a "non-liability note," well. I am sure some might think this too cheap , others too expensive. My passion isn;t really the boring residential stuff I do anymore anyway...SO its a just a job, and i am the boss. I only hope that one day, after Grad School, I can adjust to working in the big firms. Okay I am rambling...sorry.
lb, your enthusiasm makes me slightly less scared... $30-$50 was about what i was thinking... it's always nice to know that i'm not completely off base... i was thinking that $50 would be ideal, but running some numbers i could make $35 work without much pain...
ff33, thanks for that thread... i remember it... i think that there was another thread about contract work but i haven't been able to find the specific one that i'm remembering...
We've been talking about this for a few days and it seems like its going to happen. I think he's going to do it, but he's worried what will happen if the "soft commitments" don't materialize.
I'm just looking forward to being the breadwinner again...its embarassing to be an attorney and have an architect out wage you. Plus it will be nice to have a house husband!
Keep the advise and information coming, it has a calming affect. Maybe that will keep the hair from falling out.
i have done odd jobs for my old office, now and again. i don't charge by the hour but by the project. we agree on how many hours it should take and work out a fee plus a multiplier for my profit. very straighforward and fair cuz we have a 10 year relationship and trust each other; i made a lot more than i ever did when i actually worked for him as staff, which is interesting.
makes life easier that insurance in japan is very cheap, and kids have universal FREE care (the max age was recently extended from 5 years old to 10 or 11 now i think; makes the recent attempts in usa seem stupid in comparison, no). i can't imagine living in america and having to deal with that. what an amazing disincentive to so many things.
Sounds cool architphil, go for it! A couple weeks ago I had a long chat to my boss and pretty well resigned. Haven't set a date yet, but its acknowledged that I'm not really in the right place for my skills / ambitions.
Anyway, this thread is really relevant to my current situation too. I got a call the other day from a potential client (not one from my current office), who sought me out and specifically wants to work with me. That's great, but now I'm wondering what do I do? Do I stay put in my office just to work on this project, or do I take this opportunity and run with it, and go out on my own again?
It's a scary yet totally thrilling opportunity. I'm a great believer in taking risks. What I'm not sure of is what are the other considerations besides hourly rates that an Independent Contractor needs to take into account...do I need an accountant? A lawyer? Indemnity insurance? What does a partnering agreement with a licensed architect look like? Where does someone go for good legal / contractual advice?
my "soft commitments" aren't for stand alone jobs but rather as a hired gun for a couple of firms that are swamped with work... one of which is a previous employer and another is a young firm (been around for 2-3 years) that has enough work to farm some out... i also have 1 stand alone job that is definitely happening and another out there that might happen... another interesting opportunity may arise from my current boss who has already resigned (there's been a lot of turmoil around here recently) that may need some architectural consulting work at his new job...
we're in a pretty good financial situation right now where all of our monthly expenses (mortgage, cars, insurance, savings, etc) are covered by my wife's salary... which i didn't even realize until we talked seriously about it last night... so we won't have to worry about being homeless if i bring in less work than expected...
still, it's frightening to think about leaving a job that pays REALLY, REALLY well for the potential of making nothing... i'm going to have some more serious conversations with the firm principals that have said that they have some work for me over the weekend and should make the decision by next week...
we're in a pretty good financial situation right now where all of our monthly expenses (mortgage, cars, insurance, savings, etc) are covered by my wife's salary
I am so unbelievably jealous of this statement!! If my SO's salary covered us, I would definitely be out on my own pursuing my own work. It is a fantastic situation to be in, to have the safety net of your wife's job to allow you time to see what you can accomplish. Go for it!!!! (Plus your wife is cool enough to post here - so she rocks completely.)
<self-piteous whining>
Some days I'm really tired of being the breadwinner. Sigh.
<end self-piteous whining>
OK, back to architphil's topic now, excuse my diversion. It sounds like the perfect situation, architphil. Good luck with it!
if soft commitments don;t work out....use Craigslist, and or wirt letters to local contractors, Architects and even dare I say Realtors. A nice letter head and business card , maybe a brochure sometimes will get you a thread of work. These days, I sort of quit advertising , because the word of mouth is so strong
architphil: i am still an IC, technically, but at present have more of a typical in-house designer relationship with the firm i'm at. i have an in-house rate, and we bill out clients at market rates for my time. and i'm only working for this one firm, whereas previously i had ongoing relationships with multiple firms plus private clients.
independent contracting is a two way street...if you make yourself available to your clients whenever they need you, they'll try and accommodate you when the others do too. it can be a tough balancing act. be open and direct about what your other commitments are and you'll be well served. everyone knows that their IC's have more than one source of income, so be transparent about your competing deadlines and responsibilities and they'll try and accommodate.
if there's one comment i'd make on soft commitments...it's this:
It ain't a job until it's a job. Until the ink is dry...It's just hot air.
Prepare for most of them to flop, and when they don't you'll be pleasantly surprised. Helps keep financial surprises at bay...though it sounds like you've thought this well pretty thoroughly.
good luck...i for one love writing SELF in the employer box on doctors forms, bank forms, etc. there's a lot of pride wrapped up in being self-reliant in that way.
antipodean - the RIBA has architect to architect documents available for a partnering agreement with a licensed architect, I am assuming you are in the states, I imagine that the AIA should have something similar, no?
I think the AIA does...I looked it up online and an AIA architect can contract a non-licensed or foreign architect as a consultant. Not sure what kind of autonomy that leaves the non-licensed party though.
little or any I'm sure. It is likely that it will require at least some amount of indemnity on both parts unless the architect-to-architect agreement makes reference to a transfer of responsibility which very few licensed architects would easily agree to
architphil, I'm congratulating you here - rather than on TC where you posted that you've made your final decision - to bring this thread back up to the top. I was just talikng aout it with my husband and it honestly sounds like you are in the ideal situation for this to happen.
So CONGRATULATIONS and good luck, and keep us posted on how it all goes. If nothing else, I'm certain it will be a fun adventure and you will learn new things about yourself and your goals.
Nov 4, 07 9:34 am ·
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Any independent contractors out there?
I'm considering leaving my current job to go out on my own. I'm planning on going back to school in Fall '08 so I'd only have to make it work for about 9 months. I have a few residential projects lined up and have talked to a few firms around town (with soft commitments) about doing some independent contract work to fill in the voids. I've already been added to my wife's insurance, so I won't have to worry about that.
My question is, what are you ICors typically charging per hour for your contract work? Or are you doing it as lump sums for set deliverables?
It's scary and exciting and everthing seems to be indicating that this plan might actually work. Am i deluding myself?
Congrats, architphil!!!!
It sounds like a great situation, to have a limited time to sustain yourself, sort of testing the waters. My partner did the same thing, 12 years later he's still out on his own (with me now). And the insurance deal via your wife makes a HUGE difference.
I've talked to a few people about contract drafting recently - not for us, but other people who are looking for work. It sounds like $30-50/hr is pretty common. In our firm, we bill drafting time at $60/hr.
I posted a similar thread a while back
http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=62974_0_42_0_C
I like working for myself, but my problems are aplenty. Firstly, maintaining progressive clientele: being cheaper tan an Architects means you attract "the wingnuts" and ugly projects. I also have trouble balancing the books sometimes,..I wish I had gone to business school some days. Most weeks I work more than I would bill out...so I am learning the hard way about non billable hours, I guess. Lets see, IDP is a good reason not to work for your self too long as well. No one cares if ou deem yourslef worthy of entrepnuiral endeavors. NOt Architects, not Grad Schools, and certainly not NCARB!. So don;t expect any props just for being independent. Also, I have kind of screwed myself in that , if a firm isn;t doing anything cool or even using good softwares ( Revit Rhino) I probably won;t be able to work there. You get spoiled.
As for rates, I charge 1/2 of what my Architect friends in town charge per hour. I tell my clients I am not an Architect, so I have less overhead and no insurance. This is reflected in my CDs as a "non-liability note," well. I am sure some might think this too cheap , others too expensive. My passion isn;t really the boring residential stuff I do anymore anyway...SO its a just a job, and i am the boss. I only hope that one day, after Grad School, I can adjust to working in the big firms. Okay I am rambling...sorry.
Good luck.
thanks lb and ff33...
lb, your enthusiasm makes me slightly less scared... $30-$50 was about what i was thinking... it's always nice to know that i'm not completely off base... i was thinking that $50 would be ideal, but running some numbers i could make $35 work without much pain...
ff33, thanks for that thread... i remember it... i think that there was another thread about contract work but i haven't been able to find the specific one that i'm remembering...
any others? mightlittle, maybe?
i was pushing 40 and hour for the exhibit houses...but might raise that up 5 bucks or so......
start out hourly if you can so you can understand the scope of work and your time
make sure to have things in the contract such as
contract rates/40/overtime/weekend
changes
3d images if needed/etc
just create a check list and give it to the company to see what they need from you.......
b
I'd like to strangle my contractor right now.
metamechanic is obviously a very wise man. pretty much nailed it....
I need to write this shit down...
...note to self ,
1. if planning to continue work for self, include overhead adjustments to puchase Rogaine....
:-) Thanks man.
We've been talking about this for a few days and it seems like its going to happen. I think he's going to do it, but he's worried what will happen if the "soft commitments" don't materialize.
I'm just looking forward to being the breadwinner again...its embarassing to be an attorney and have an architect out wage you. Plus it will be nice to have a house husband!
Keep the advise and information coming, it has a calming affect. Maybe that will keep the hair from falling out.
-the wife
i have done odd jobs for my old office, now and again. i don't charge by the hour but by the project. we agree on how many hours it should take and work out a fee plus a multiplier for my profit. very straighforward and fair cuz we have a 10 year relationship and trust each other; i made a lot more than i ever did when i actually worked for him as staff, which is interesting.
makes life easier that insurance in japan is very cheap, and kids have universal FREE care (the max age was recently extended from 5 years old to 10 or 11 now i think; makes the recent attempts in usa seem stupid in comparison, no). i can't imagine living in america and having to deal with that. what an amazing disincentive to so many things.
Sounds cool architphil, go for it! A couple weeks ago I had a long chat to my boss and pretty well resigned. Haven't set a date yet, but its acknowledged that I'm not really in the right place for my skills / ambitions.
Anyway, this thread is really relevant to my current situation too. I got a call the other day from a potential client (not one from my current office), who sought me out and specifically wants to work with me. That's great, but now I'm wondering what do I do? Do I stay put in my office just to work on this project, or do I take this opportunity and run with it, and go out on my own again?
It's a scary yet totally thrilling opportunity. I'm a great believer in taking risks. What I'm not sure of is what are the other considerations besides hourly rates that an Independent Contractor needs to take into account...do I need an accountant? A lawyer? Indemnity insurance? What does a partnering agreement with a licensed architect look like? Where does someone go for good legal / contractual advice?
my "soft commitments" aren't for stand alone jobs but rather as a hired gun for a couple of firms that are swamped with work... one of which is a previous employer and another is a young firm (been around for 2-3 years) that has enough work to farm some out... i also have 1 stand alone job that is definitely happening and another out there that might happen... another interesting opportunity may arise from my current boss who has already resigned (there's been a lot of turmoil around here recently) that may need some architectural consulting work at his new job...
we're in a pretty good financial situation right now where all of our monthly expenses (mortgage, cars, insurance, savings, etc) are covered by my wife's salary... which i didn't even realize until we talked seriously about it last night... so we won't have to worry about being homeless if i bring in less work than expected...
still, it's frightening to think about leaving a job that pays REALLY, REALLY well for the potential of making nothing... i'm going to have some more serious conversations with the firm principals that have said that they have some work for me over the weekend and should make the decision by next week...
I am so unbelievably jealous of this statement!! If my SO's salary covered us, I would definitely be out on my own pursuing my own work. It is a fantastic situation to be in, to have the safety net of your wife's job to allow you time to see what you can accomplish. Go for it!!!! (Plus your wife is cool enough to post here - so she rocks completely.)
<self-piteous whining>
Some days I'm really tired of being the breadwinner. Sigh.
<end self-piteous whining>
OK, back to architphil's topic now, excuse my diversion. It sounds like the perfect situation, architphil. Good luck with it!
at least your winning artisan bread and not day old loaves from the wonderbread outlet store.
if soft commitments don;t work out....use Craigslist, and or wirt letters to local contractors, Architects and even dare I say Realtors. A nice letter head and business card , maybe a brochure sometimes will get you a thread of work. These days, I sort of quit advertising , because the word of mouth is so strong
advertising is good if you have a website..... create a curious name/flyer and have your site on it.....
word of mouth is always stronger but sometimes people dont talk......
b
architphil: i am still an IC, technically, but at present have more of a typical in-house designer relationship with the firm i'm at. i have an in-house rate, and we bill out clients at market rates for my time. and i'm only working for this one firm, whereas previously i had ongoing relationships with multiple firms plus private clients.
independent contracting is a two way street...if you make yourself available to your clients whenever they need you, they'll try and accommodate you when the others do too. it can be a tough balancing act. be open and direct about what your other commitments are and you'll be well served. everyone knows that their IC's have more than one source of income, so be transparent about your competing deadlines and responsibilities and they'll try and accommodate.
if there's one comment i'd make on soft commitments...it's this:
It ain't a job until it's a job. Until the ink is dry...It's just hot air.
Prepare for most of them to flop, and when they don't you'll be pleasantly surprised. Helps keep financial surprises at bay...though it sounds like you've thought this well pretty thoroughly.
good luck...i for one love writing SELF in the employer box on doctors forms, bank forms, etc. there's a lot of pride wrapped up in being self-reliant in that way.
-ml
antipodean - the RIBA has architect to architect documents available for a partnering agreement with a licensed architect, I am assuming you are in the states, I imagine that the AIA should have something similar, no?
I think the AIA does...I looked it up online and an AIA architect can contract a non-licensed or foreign architect as a consultant. Not sure what kind of autonomy that leaves the non-licensed party though.
little or any I'm sure. It is likely that it will require at least some amount of indemnity on both parts unless the architect-to-architect agreement makes reference to a transfer of responsibility which very few licensed architects would easily agree to
architphil, I'm congratulating you here - rather than on TC where you posted that you've made your final decision - to bring this thread back up to the top. I was just talikng aout it with my husband and it honestly sounds like you are in the ideal situation for this to happen.
So CONGRATULATIONS and good luck, and keep us posted on how it all goes. If nothing else, I'm certain it will be a fun adventure and you will learn new things about yourself and your goals.
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