go work at McD's for $33,500 a yr

You are worth more than that.

In the 2005 AIA Compensation Survey, the median for an Architect I / Designer I in the Milwaukee Metro Area was $42,500 - that would be about $46,500 (+/-) in 2007 dollars.

For Wisconsin as a whole, the survey median was $39,000 in 2005.

Architect I /designer I = Recently licensed architect or nonregistered graduate with 3–5 years of experience; responsible for particular parts of a project within parameters set by others.

I will say that your non-professional degree (I use the phrase kindly) may be seen by your employer as a constraint on what they might be willing to pay -- the survey numbers are, I believe, focused on individuals holding a professional degree from an accredited school.

The survey aside (unless you think yourself a commodity) what you are worth is closely related to what you are able to contribute. You may be "worth" more than (or less than) the number suggested by the survey. You have to tie your compensation to a concrete assessment of what you are contributing.

I do love dogs.............

well, the world needs ditchdiggers too!

lukie, who do you work for?

$33,500 = $16.10/hr, that'll get you a job as a mig welder in Peoria, IL or a delivery driver in South Beach. Personally I'd go for the delivery driver job.

Come on, aqua - wouldn't you rather be a welder? Like in Flashdance?

When it comes to dancing I've always been more of a Footloose fan.

Cut loose, aqua!

perhaps its just my imagination in need of stimulation at the moment but my mind is reeling over the kinds of things this very elusive yet eye-catching ad is suggesting.

im guessing something to the effect of.. 'tell us which of these tastes better' and 'here's a hose, our latest horsemeat, gizzards, and carrots flavor concoction was a disaster and all the kennels need to be cleaned out immediately'

i'd probably avoid this one.

Thanks for looking into that quizzical. I really do appreciate it. And to answer your question I do feel I am a commodity, I actually manage a few projects and am involved in all phases of a project. The firm I work for is small and my boss(the owner) gives out a lot of responsibility right away. I appreciated the responsibility and for the last three years I would tell myself that all my hardwork would pay off and I would somehow be reward. Didn't happen.

give em your two weeks...three weeks before that 100% cd set is due

cfl -- sounds like it may be time for you to make a move -- the job board at AIA.org shows 10 job openings in WI (mostly in Madison) ... if you're prepared to make a move, maybe one of those will be a more appropriate place for you.

good luck.

thats about right. i feel your pain.

... that's true in some firms ... it's not true in all ... our firm makes a concerted effort to keep our staff abreast of cost-of-living increases, plus merit bumps to reflect advances in their contributions.

I also asked my employer for a raise he said "you already make alot"

I get praised often, but can't seem to negotiate a raise. Maybe they just feel sorry for me and what they say is a lie, yeh, that's probably it.

quizz, you sound too good to be true.

it's simple self-interest ... not an altruistic bone in my body !

Tumbleweed makes a good point about not getting a pay increase until you go somewhere else. It seems kind of messed up though. Why wouldn't the employer want to retain his current employee? Especially if there going to have to turn around and hire someone at competitive rates.

also

hiring someone else incurs a lot of $$$ on the employer to bring the person up to speed on things

like I said ... it's simple self-interest.

why do you suppose that idea's lost on some many practices ?

put yourself first....

life a friend of mine said, if your employer was hurting for $$$, guess what they would do...let your ass go

Sadly I tend to agree with this...at least for the entry levels of this profession. My current employer has been very good at giving generous raises to me (10% or more, merit + cost of living), but past ones have not (2% and be happy with that).

My advise when an employer won't even give a 4-5% cost of living raise (and yes, inflation is running over 5%) is to walk. I know it costs a fortune to hire and train someone new...at least a heck of a lot more than 5% on a salary under $50k.

When you leave, that employer gets what they deserve. If they truly cannot afford that pay raise maybe it's time for them to rethink the fees they charge, not how they can scrimp on payroll.

I'd like to share a story about the perils of not doing salary research:

When I first moved to California, I started interviewing. I had come from a much smaller city, so I thought "it's more expensive down here. I'll up my salary requirements by $20,000."

I interviewed at a bunch of places, got a number of offers, felt sheepish asking for my salary requirement because I thought it sounded high. But at every one of the places I interviewed, they didn't even blink.

At the eighth and last place I interviewed, when I told the interviewer my requirement, he laughed. "Really?" he said. "That's a lot lower than I thought you'd say." He then told me that I should have been asking for $20,000 more than I'd asked for (or $40,000 more than my previous job!)

I was shocked. It's California, so a well-paying and expensive market. But, because I'd asked for so little, I got a bunch of offers at $20,000 less than I should have asked for. I looked like a total bargain to them. I now kick myself.

Talk to a lot of people about expected salary in your area before interviewing.

It's been mentioned on here before, you should wear your best suit to work one day and tell the boss you have a dr's appt. It might scare him into paying you more if he thinks you are serious about leaving.

$33.5 isn't too bad for milwaukee if it includes benefits. you seem to have a decent amount of work experience but no professional degree. so considering the market you're in and the low cost of living in milwaukee, the pay seems fair. maybe i don't know what i'm talking about. talk to your friends with similar experience levels at corporate places like kahler, hga, and kubala and see what they're making. if you're making much less, then you actually have some hard data about whether to compare if you're getting screwed. then again, depending on who you're working for, maybe the work is interesting enough / will open doors with a hot portfolio that it's worth the slightly less pay. if the work sucks and the pay sucks (after self-evaluation and comparing salaries with peers at other firms in milw) then you have reason to try to move on. i know lots of people in milwaukee working architecture that make less than $33.5.

Chase, I felt pretty good until your comment.......

luke, sorry i was a bit harsh. i too am frequently pissed off at the low levels of salaries at cool firms. maybe with a professional degree, maybe moving to a bigger city (or not might actually be a better option - big fish in a small pond?). feel free to email me if you want to talk milwaukee specifics.

you could always 'accidently' leave the job section of Archinect up on your screen while you take lunch

$33k for 4 years of experience and a bachelor of science (non-professional) degree is probably generous by midwest standards...in fact, i tempted to say that you should just be thankful for even having a job...

yes that's why they have lots of cheap beer in milwaukee to drown your sorrows in,,,

wisconsin also has the best microbrews in the country. in addition to having the "milwaukee's best" waste.

I made more than that after 3 years experience in a small (very inexpensive) midwestern city, I had less responsibility too it sounds like. However, I have the professional degree, and would not have been employed if I didn't.

Have you been at this place for all 4 of your years of expereince? I jumped my salary 150% by changing jobs and getting the hell out of the midwest. Now I still think I'm underpaid. Huh.

Hardly.

It sounds like I need to go back to school for 2 more years and get my masters. Unfortunatly thats not going to be an option for a couple of years(family). Why is it a benefit to your employer that you have that professional degree. I can still be licensed in my state and many others and it's not like I'm going to be stamping any drawings when I do become licensed.

you can get liscensed without a professional degree in wisconsin? that's news to me. i thought you couldn't even start IDP until you started a professesional degree program.

technically, you may be of no more value, if you got experience in other ways. a professional degree just shows a level of commitment and ostensibly implies a level of experience and expertise gained in school that others wouldn't have. but you're right that you could be the best architect ever and never even have gone to school.

You can get licensed in many states without a professional degree as long as you complete your IDP. You can gain IDP credits because they look at a BS in architecture as the first four years in a accredited program. As long as your school has the 4+2 program.

Maybe you should do the "2" part of your degree. I assume you haven't.

CA used to license without accredited (or actually any) degrees, I think.., but I believe this has ended as of last year.

If you have 4 years of experience, hold a b-arch, and live in a big city, 33k is absolute garbage. Period.

Time to expand your horizons, son. Come to DC. You'll be golden.

coolfootluke -

the primary reason employers are skittish about not having a professional degree is that they know you'll have to go back to school (ergo leave the firm) at some point. they are probably skittish about investing too much into you (although yours seems to do so) for fear of having to transfer all that onto someone else later. i don't know that this would correlate into depressing a salary (it wouldn't imho), but it could if they feel like they can't advance you to the level they'd like to. (again, doesn't seem to be your particular case).

licensure alone isn't the question - even if you could get licensed with a 4 year degree, it'll be worthless outside the state. so, the pressure really is to get a professional degree.

btw, here's wisconsin's practice act. strangest one i've ever read...



1). Pursue education and experience to fulfill requirements. All applicants will be required to submit Equivalent Intern Development Program Record of Experience or the NCARB IDP Periodic Assessment Report.

An applicant for registration as an architect shall submit satisfactory evidence to the examining board:


(a) That he or she has acquired a thorough knowledge of sound construction, building hygiene, architectural design and mathematics; and


(b)
1. A diploma of graduation, or a certificate, from an architectural school or college approved by the examining board as of satisfactory standing, together with at least 2 years’ practical experience of a character satisfactory to the examining board in the design and construction of buildings; or
2. A specific record of 7 or more years of experience in architectural work of a character satisfactory to the examining board in the design and construction of buildings.

Note : A bachelor of architecture degree from an approved school or college shall be considered as equivalent to 5 years of experience, and the completion satisfactory to the examining board of each year of work in architecture in such school or college without graduation shall be considered equivalent to one year of experience. Graduation in a course other than architecture from an approved school or college shall be considered as equivalent to not more than 4 years of experience.

2). Complete the Request to Apply for Architect Examination Application.

Applicants may be eligible to sit for the exam when they have completed 6 years of education and/or experience and at least 1 year (1860 hours) of the Intern Development Program Record of Experience.

Pass the NCARB Architect Registration Exam.