Yeah, I think a lot of the houses suffered from a series of unconsidered default design decisions, resulting in a dissappointing cut-and-paste architecture without any big ideas or compelling vision other than 'doing the right thing'.
I've heard that the competition is slowly moving away from an initial emphasis on engineering, and towards an approach that considers holistic design. I really wanted to like this stuff, it could be so cool, but as it stands now, most of the houses look the same, and most of them are really boring.
snob? how so, all he did was post an opinion which you obviously disagree with but have nothing to add.
i'll agree that most, designwise were pretty mundane, but at least it's a step in the right direction. i think it's interesting to play with this overly technical aspect, but it's not always neccesary.
765, thank you for the link to your blog post....what thoughtful and thorough observations! I am glad to see you got a kick out of UC's evacuated tubes. They are very proud of that innovation.....also I think it's funny that you mention the schools that aren't there that perhaps should be. I think it's nice to think that some of the top schools of architecture should be involved in this competition, since it's a design competition, but frankly I think that some of them would never be organized enough to attempt such an undertaking.
Also I agree with you on a basic level re: spaceships are what we should be aspiring to, however, I think we need to find a middle ground where we can design a living machine that performs like a spaceship but looks as good as a Schindler house.
I just think its funny that people can sit back and knock something that is with out a doubt getting the message out to the general public that these technologies are out there and available.
I agree w/ WK on the "top schools of architecture" probably not being organized enough to pull off a Solar Decathlon entry. If youve noticed most of the schools are technology schools...while some of them have architecture...most are tech..............but where did you get this "I've heard that the competition is slowly moving away from an initial emphasis on engineering, and towards an approach that considers holistic design." The only contest in this years decathlon that changed from last year was Dwelling. Dwelling was changed to Market Viability...which I think is covering everything in Dwelling and some. Last year some homes costed nearly a half million+ dollars in just material(in most cases labor is double) Now thats not a home that the average joe is going to able to buy even if it is designed by Yale-Harvard-SciArc-Blahblahblah
Enough with the rant.
Monday morning they announce who wins the architecture portion of the competition...I think 10am eastern
we had the maryland team present their house to our office. they had no idea what they were doing. but then again, maryland doesn't start studio until their 4th yr...
re: the schools that aren't there, I think it reflects a lot more poorly on them than it does on the competition. Schools ('top' or not) ignore the relevance of this kind of thing at their peril.
I'm just over a year out of school, and we didn't talk about the Solar Decathlon at all when the last one was on in 2005. I think that's a real shame, I would've wanted to play, too!
The idea that every year this competition gets more design-oriented came directly out of conversations I had with two friends who've participated in the past. A lot of the old entries are still up here, too.
That's really interesting about Market Viability and Dwelling, WATS, but I think the fact that 'Architecture' is a seperate catagory from either of these is kind of telling too, right?
my reaction to 765's piece, posted in the news: "real critique!: who does THAT any more? and you handled it skillfully and in a way that makes the specifics of what you saw the seeds for a larger conversation about the future. congrats."
stones, i don't think anyone (765 included) is knocking the fact that the decathlon exists or even saying that it's not worth doing. but there is some merit to the idea that it can be better. 765's critique was a great recognition of this, i think.
when i was in undergrad in the late 80s, no one was interested in going anywhere near environmentally responsible design. green meant ugly. green meant an architectural project that looked like a science project.
we've come a long way, but 765's critique - and his observation of how the people at the decathlon presented their work in a totally geeked-out, tech-showcase sort of way - is right on the money. the best solar work and the work that makes sustainable architecture enter the public consciousness in a positive way is going to have to be sexy. people gotta want to just look at it.
as long as green feels like a sacrifice - like you settle for less for the benefit of a 'greater good' - it won't hit critical mass. when solar design is so great that it makes people feel that they shouldn't settle for less than the best solar-outfitted house - then it's made it.
the solar decathlon HAS to be able to absorb criticism. if we're only allowed to make positive comments, discussion about it will die. criticism feeds discussion.
I liked what I saw. Many had similar design approaches. Linear layout, mono pitched roofs, modern looking design etc.. MIT's was my least favorite. Univ. of Colorado had the most interesting building I hear many of the general public on their cells phones telling their buddies they should check it out. I was there on Sat and it was real crowded. I toured one house which took close to an hour.
All Im sayin is that people talk about something as if they have actually done it...meaning the solar decathlon...765 makes it sound like he could of or his school could of completed an entry w/ ease...when he really doesn't know what it takes...
"I think a lot of the houses suffered from a series of unconsidered default design decisions, resulting in a dissappointing cut-and-paste architecture without any big ideas or compelling vision other than 'doing the right thing'."
...I'm speaking from experience when I say its no easy task to complete a Solar Decathlon Entry from a students...a teachers, and a schools stand point.
I spared my entire summer before thesis and the 1st 2 months of my thesis year(including my other b/s classes) for the 2005 Decathlon...serious tension in relationships...blah blah!
Steven...and 765 I agree - he has a great critique...and yeah ALL the houses suffer from a series of unconsidered default design decisions...they are students after all...and this is what will happen...mistakes
-Most architects never have and never will have the opportunity to tackle a project as important as a Solar Decathlon entry.
All good, stones, I definitely never intended to hint that me or my school could do better, I keep saying it's a shame that we never had the chance! I think any school that's not participating has a lot to answer to, this stuff is way more relevant than some of the other material people spend their time on.
And I'm speaking from experience, too. I worked on a collaborative, team-based design/build project while I was at school. It also lasted for a semester and a summer. I know how much work it is, and how difficult it is to hold on to a concept through that kind of chaotic process. Just keeping the design team on speaking terms with one another was hard enough!
That place was super-crowded on saturday, the line for the UMD house was two hours long! Looking forward to hearing some of the results.
Damn-it!
-Wish I could of been around this year to see some of the houses...last year it rained all week and not many people came through the mall. I hope the weather holds out this year...for everyones sake!
-I knew the germans were going to kick everyones ass!
yeah VT's house was damn sexy...and they were pretty confident them selves...a little too confident if you ask me...but thats IMHO of course!...well not very humble i guess. LOL!
765 - its the students job...as well as the faculty..I guess... to make the competition happen for your school...although the university its self could throw the whole idea in the trash...but the more the students voice their opinion the more they(students) can make a difference in your university...universities dont like angry mobs of students!
when i worked in germany, the emphasis was on efficient facades, no thermal bridges, superinsulation, heat recovery systems and natural systems as much as possible. worked on passivhaus projects, almost no solar, though.
u of colorado won in '05, but VT killed in dwelling and architecture categories, surprising since susanka and mazria were 2 of the 4 judges.
better pic:
I didnt get how VT took 1st in dwelling(which was for compfort and livability...they had not 1 operable window in the house...just 2 small vents on either end of the house!!!!
Well I went to UMD so I've gotta support the home team, too (which, despite what Arzo says above, starts studio at the beginning of the thrd year in undergrad, and anyway is only a BSarch, not a Barch, so who cares?). But my true favorite is the team in number one right now: ze Germans. The way they broke up the big huge panel that everybody else has and sprinkled it all over the box is genius, I hope they end up being as efficient as everybody else, but hey, they're Germans, right?
It seems like the categories are all tangled up, as WonderK points out, even the 'Architecture' category is broken down into 'Firmness, Commodity and Delight'. For Firmness: aren't there already enough engineering criteria for these things? And Commodity and Delight seem to overlap with 'Market Viability', which also subsumed 'Dwelling'. isn't it much more 'Delightful' 'to Dwell' than to be 'Viable'? And how is 'Viability' different from 'Commodity' anyway, if Viability is now all about construction cost and market price?
That V. Tech house is really cool. The glow is great, and I'll bet you get some awesome light effects inside off the underside of that roof. If they bring in air low and take it out high, I'd guess it would stay pretty comfortable in there, and 'Comfort Zone' is one of the judging criteria anyway, so presumably it worked okay, right?
I m a SR designer for Colorado,..trying to relax after 2 weeks of 20 hour construction shifts. We didn't fare so well in Arch today. Competition was fierce, and we are not sure where they found the Jurors. Anyway I am not bitter the winners deserved it!!!!
.I question Maryland's placement but whatever. They were robbed in 05. They filed a complaint back then , so perhaps this year they they deserved a break.
All I know is that we were charged to design with "Building Integrated Principles" , w/ regards to the PV this year...I feel only a handful of teams headed this charge.
As for the efficacy of the competion, I concur that the parametric typologies of these buildings is homoginzing the Competiton a bit. I could go on and on here...but will not bore you with my theories on the things wrong with Decathlon.
Personally, I can just say that the Decathlon is a training ground more than anything. It takes architecture and engineering student and puts them through the ringer on every decision they ever made about the design they started with. It is more intense than most studios, I don't care how "top Notch" the name of your school is.
Here at CU we have one of the smallest team, smallest budget, little support from our school. We work all night, sweating, fighting. We always try to remain square with our neighbors and show sportsman-like conduct. Our efforts to promote the virtues of Solar
Power are the reason, we are here. So ..feel free to say all you want about the decathlon's lack of Architecture, and the houses you do or don;t like...but unless you have been down on the dirt, building all night, with us, you don;t really know the full story.
ff3 - Obviously you're still too tired to follow the conversation here. ;D
If you'd read the posts you'd know that nobody's saying that well-known schools carry any weight, and nobody's saying that hard work doesn't matter.
Hard work deserves a lot of respect, but in the end hard work is par for the course, and it's gonna take more than that to capitalize on all the attention this event is getting. One of the things good design should do is move people, and there are so many missed opportunities here to do that. A moral high ground is definitely not going to get the job done.
I'm pulling for GT, been working on the project for close to 8months now. Its killing me that I can't make it up there for more than a couple weekends because of thesis.
Maryland takes 1st in Communications and moves into 1st place overall
Formfunction...you mentioned something about in 2005 how the Maryland team got jipped out of some points or some part of the competition and they might be compensated this year...could you elaborate a little bit?
Solar decathlon 2007
any opinions?
Yeah, I think a lot of the houses suffered from a series of unconsidered default design decisions, resulting in a dissappointing cut-and-paste architecture without any big ideas or compelling vision other than 'doing the right thing'.
I've heard that the competition is slowly moving away from an initial emphasis on engineering, and towards an approach that considers holistic design. I really wanted to like this stuff, it could be so cool, but as it stands now, most of the houses look the same, and most of them are really boring.
More here:
link
boo hoo, you snob
snob? how so, all he did was post an opinion which you obviously disagree with but have nothing to add.
i'll agree that most, designwise were pretty mundane, but at least it's a step in the right direction. i think it's interesting to play with this overly technical aspect, but it's not always neccesary.
765, thank you for the link to your blog post....what thoughtful and thorough observations! I am glad to see you got a kick out of UC's evacuated tubes. They are very proud of that innovation.....also I think it's funny that you mention the schools that aren't there that perhaps should be. I think it's nice to think that some of the top schools of architecture should be involved in this competition, since it's a design competition, but frankly I think that some of them would never be organized enough to attempt such an undertaking.
Also I agree with you on a basic level re: spaceships are what we should be aspiring to, however, I think we need to find a middle ground where we can design a living machine that performs like a spaceship but looks as good as a Schindler house.
I just think its funny that people can sit back and knock something that is with out a doubt getting the message out to the general public that these technologies are out there and available.
I agree w/ WK on the "top schools of architecture" probably not being organized enough to pull off a Solar Decathlon entry. If youve noticed most of the schools are technology schools...while some of them have architecture...most are tech..............but where did you get this "I've heard that the competition is slowly moving away from an initial emphasis on engineering, and towards an approach that considers holistic design." The only contest in this years decathlon that changed from last year was Dwelling. Dwelling was changed to Market Viability...which I think is covering everything in Dwelling and some. Last year some homes costed nearly a half million+ dollars in just material(in most cases labor is double) Now thats not a home that the average joe is going to able to buy even if it is designed by Yale-Harvard-SciArc-Blahblahblah
Enough with the rant.
Monday morning they announce who wins the architecture portion of the competition...I think 10am eastern
Spaceships are the new steamship! Yes!
we had the maryland team present their house to our office. they had no idea what they were doing. but then again, maryland doesn't start studio until their 4th yr...
re: the schools that aren't there, I think it reflects a lot more poorly on them than it does on the competition. Schools ('top' or not) ignore the relevance of this kind of thing at their peril.
I'm just over a year out of school, and we didn't talk about the Solar Decathlon at all when the last one was on in 2005. I think that's a real shame, I would've wanted to play, too!
The idea that every year this competition gets more design-oriented came directly out of conversations I had with two friends who've participated in the past. A lot of the old entries are still up here, too.
That's really interesting about Market Viability and Dwelling, WATS, but I think the fact that 'Architecture' is a seperate catagory from either of these is kind of telling too, right?
my reaction to 765's piece, posted in the news: "real critique!: who does THAT any more? and you handled it skillfully and in a way that makes the specifics of what you saw the seeds for a larger conversation about the future. congrats."
stones, i don't think anyone (765 included) is knocking the fact that the decathlon exists or even saying that it's not worth doing. but there is some merit to the idea that it can be better. 765's critique was a great recognition of this, i think.
when i was in undergrad in the late 80s, no one was interested in going anywhere near environmentally responsible design. green meant ugly. green meant an architectural project that looked like a science project.
we've come a long way, but 765's critique - and his observation of how the people at the decathlon presented their work in a totally geeked-out, tech-showcase sort of way - is right on the money. the best solar work and the work that makes sustainable architecture enter the public consciousness in a positive way is going to have to be sexy. people gotta want to just look at it.
as long as green feels like a sacrifice - like you settle for less for the benefit of a 'greater good' - it won't hit critical mass. when solar design is so great that it makes people feel that they shouldn't settle for less than the best solar-outfitted house - then it's made it.
the solar decathlon HAS to be able to absorb criticism. if we're only allowed to make positive comments, discussion about it will die. criticism feeds discussion.
I liked what I saw. Many had similar design approaches. Linear layout, mono pitched roofs, modern looking design etc.. MIT's was my least favorite. Univ. of Colorado had the most interesting building I hear many of the general public on their cells phones telling their buddies they should check it out. I was there on Sat and it was real crowded. I toured one house which took close to an hour.
All Im sayin is that people talk about something as if they have actually done it...meaning the solar decathlon...765 makes it sound like he could of or his school could of completed an entry w/ ease...when he really doesn't know what it takes...
"I think a lot of the houses suffered from a series of unconsidered default design decisions, resulting in a dissappointing cut-and-paste architecture without any big ideas or compelling vision other than 'doing the right thing'."
...I'm speaking from experience when I say its no easy task to complete a Solar Decathlon Entry from a students...a teachers, and a schools stand point.
I spared my entire summer before thesis and the 1st 2 months of my thesis year(including my other b/s classes) for the 2005 Decathlon...serious tension in relationships...blah blah!
Steven...and 765 I agree - he has a great critique...and yeah ALL the houses suffer from a series of unconsidered default design decisions...they are students after all...and this is what will happen...mistakes
-Most architects never have and never will have the opportunity to tackle a project as important as a Solar Decathlon entry.
-Critique on ;-)
any word on the winner of the Architecture portion of the competition...the "contests and scoring" tab is down
i remember one from last year that was particularly good - both inventive AND sexy. i think it was from va tech?
All good, stones, I definitely never intended to hint that me or my school could do better, I keep saying it's a shame that we never had the chance! I think any school that's not participating has a lot to answer to, this stuff is way more relevant than some of the other material people spend their time on.
And I'm speaking from experience, too. I worked on a collaborative, team-based design/build project while I was at school. It also lasted for a semester and a summer. I know how much work it is, and how difficult it is to hold on to a concept through that kind of chaotic process. Just keeping the design team on speaking terms with one another was hard enough!
That place was super-crowded on saturday, the line for the UMD house was two hours long! Looking forward to hearing some of the results.
Architecture results are in:
1 Darmstadt
2 Maryland
3 Georgia Tech
4 Cincinnati
5 Madrid
Damn-it!
-Wish I could of been around this year to see some of the houses...last year it rained all week and not many people came through the mall. I hope the weather holds out this year...for everyones sake!
-I knew the germans were going to kick everyones ass!
yeah VT's house was damn sexy...and they were pretty confident them selves...a little too confident if you ask me...but thats IMHO of course!...well not very humble i guess. LOL!
765 - its the students job...as well as the faculty..I guess... to make the competition happen for your school...although the university its self could throw the whole idea in the trash...but the more the students voice their opinion the more they(students) can make a difference in your university...universities dont like angry mobs of students!
Tu darmstadt dropped a ton of money and freebies from some great builders in DE.
VT's design for the '05 was not too shabby (thanks, joe)
Didn't VA Tech win the competition last year? Or win a big part of it anyway?
WATS>
I knew the germans were going to kick everyones ass!
ha ha, isn't that the truth :o) Seriously though, Germany gets half as much sunlight as the US and they do solar power better than anybody.
when i worked in germany, the emphasis was on efficient facades, no thermal bridges, superinsulation, heat recovery systems and natural systems as much as possible. worked on passivhaus projects, almost no solar, though.
u of colorado won in '05, but VT killed in dwelling and architecture categories, surprising since susanka and mazria were 2 of the 4 judges.
better pic:
765....I linked to you on my blog. :-D
Hi WonderK! ;P
I didnt get how VT took 1st in dwelling(which was for compfort and livability...they had not 1 operable window in the house...just 2 small vents on either end of the house!!!!
ya see that little red thing on the short side of the house...thats it!
Wahooo! - 4th place overall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! go alma mader! (SP)
so far!
anyone have a favorite they are routing for?
Well I went to UMD so I've gotta support the home team, too (which, despite what Arzo says above, starts studio at the beginning of the thrd year in undergrad, and anyway is only a BSarch, not a Barch, so who cares?). But my true favorite is the team in number one right now: ze Germans. The way they broke up the big huge panel that everybody else has and sprinkled it all over the box is genius, I hope they end up being as efficient as everybody else, but hey, they're Germans, right?
It seems like the categories are all tangled up, as WonderK points out, even the 'Architecture' category is broken down into 'Firmness, Commodity and Delight'. For Firmness: aren't there already enough engineering criteria for these things? And Commodity and Delight seem to overlap with 'Market Viability', which also subsumed 'Dwelling'. isn't it much more 'Delightful' 'to Dwell' than to be 'Viable'? And how is 'Viability' different from 'Commodity' anyway, if Viability is now all about construction cost and market price?
That V. Tech house is really cool. The glow is great, and I'll bet you get some awesome light effects inside off the underside of that roof. If they bring in air low and take it out high, I'd guess it would stay pretty comfortable in there, and 'Comfort Zone' is one of the judging criteria anyway, so presumably it worked okay, right?
Didn't VT's 2005 house make it onto Extreme Makeover Home Edition? Go Hokies.
I m a SR designer for Colorado,..trying to relax after 2 weeks of 20 hour construction shifts. We didn't fare so well in Arch today. Competition was fierce, and we are not sure where they found the Jurors. Anyway I am not bitter the winners deserved it!!!!
.I question Maryland's placement but whatever. They were robbed in 05. They filed a complaint back then , so perhaps this year they they deserved a break.
All I know is that we were charged to design with "Building Integrated Principles" , w/ regards to the PV this year...I feel only a handful of teams headed this charge.
As for the efficacy of the competion, I concur that the parametric typologies of these buildings is homoginzing the Competiton a bit. I could go on and on here...but will not bore you with my theories on the things wrong with Decathlon.
Personally, I can just say that the Decathlon is a training ground more than anything. It takes architecture and engineering student and puts them through the ringer on every decision they ever made about the design they started with. It is more intense than most studios, I don't care how "top Notch" the name of your school is.
Here at CU we have one of the smallest team, smallest budget, little support from our school. We work all night, sweating, fighting. We always try to remain square with our neighbors and show sportsman-like conduct. Our efforts to promote the virtues of Solar
Power are the reason, we are here. So ..feel free to say all you want about the decathlon's lack of Architecture, and the houses you do or don;t like...but unless you have been down on the dirt, building all night, with us, you don;t really know the full story.
Who were the jurors today?
the the faculty advisor for the VT dacathlon project was the project architect for the crawford-smith house on extreme makeover
kinda feels like a one-trick pony, eh?
ff3 - Obviously you're still too tired to follow the conversation here. ;D
If you'd read the posts you'd know that nobody's saying that well-known schools carry any weight, and nobody's saying that hard work doesn't matter.
Hard work deserves a lot of respect, but in the end hard work is par for the course, and it's gonna take more than that to capitalize on all the attention this event is getting. One of the things good design should do is move people, and there are so many missed opportunities here to do that. A moral high ground is definitely not going to get the job done.
its cool 765,
Your right , I didn;t ponder every detail of this thread.,..just chiming in mainly
Thanks for taking on the role of primary critic for the thread. You obviously have way more energy than us decathletes .
So have fun with your virtual crit and discussion.
I'm pulling for GT, been working on the project for close to 8months now. Its killing me that I can't make it up there for more than a couple weekends because of thesis.
:-) they are nice neighbors to have!
yea I remember helping you guys haul that huge steel screen around a couple weeks ago lol.
yeah, uh....
hey I didn't design that part..
uh...so sorry about that. We should have made that thing smaller. HAHAHAHa <embarrassed chuckle>
werd
I love that phrase "one trick pony" LOL! cracks me up!
So is it even worth going there to check it out? (I am 50 miles away and would have to go on Saturday when there will be huge crowds.)
what do you mean? of course you should come.
Oh, it's definitely worth going, 4arch, I live 40 miles away in Baltimore and I went.
Here's a great writeup on G. Tech's Icarus House:
link
it is well worth going...you should kick yourself in the ass for even asking ;-)
Communications winner announced??? shortly!?!?!?
Maryland takes 1st in Communications and moves into 1st place overall
Formfunction...you mentioned something about in 2005 how the Maryland team got jipped out of some points or some part of the competition and they might be compensated this year...could you elaborate a little bit?
Most were lather lackluster in appearance. Not to mention some of them didn't even do the things that they are made to appear to do...
Have you ever built a completely self sustainable house...probably not!
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