I was about to apply for IDP and retro-actively collect signatures for working experience. When can I consider the start date for working hours that count towards IDP in the state of New York? I have a 4 year pre-professional degree from the University of Michigan's architecture school from 1998 and a MArch from Harvard's design school in 2001.
I’ve read some forum letters saying you can start after your third year of your pre-professional or after your first year of professional Master’s degree. At Michigan, the four year program B.S. in Arch is actually a two year program (you apply to the architecture school after two years of undergrad). In any case, it seems like I could begin to get signatures for work the summer after I graduated from undergrad. I’ve written emails to the New York state board asking the same thing and received strange replies. Such as:
“Please contact NCARB to determine whether or not you are eligible to apply to the IDP program directly. If you are not, and need a memo from NYS, you will need to send us the following information:
- name
- full mailing address
- beginning and ending dates (mm/yyyy) of your education, name of the university, location, degrees earned, dates awarded (mm/yyyy).
- beginning and ending dates (mm/yyyy) of your experience, name(s) of the firm(s), location(s) of the firm(s), nature of the firm(s), title of each supervisor (indicate whether a licensed architect if applicable), and brief description of your job duties.”
AND
“If you are eligible to enter the IDP program directly, NCARB will establish experience acceptance criteria. Although NYS requires completion of the IDP program as one of the requirements for exam eligibility, it is NCARB's program. Please note that experience which is acceptable toward IDP may or may not be acceptable toward NYS requirements.”
So, I had a really simple question, and their last sentence “experience which is acceptable toward IDP may or may not be acceptable toward NYS requirements” is exactly what I was asking in the first place?!?! Basically, I’d like to know when I can start IDP hours so that I can ask former employers if they will sign for me. That way, I can be somewhat secure when filling out the IDP application about former experience. I hear this can be a point of contention, if the type/date of experience does not please the state board. Or if an annoying former employer does not agree with your interpretation of your work experience and will not sign, after your have submitted your IDP application listing their hours. I guess I just need to make some phone calls, but just wondering if you guys had definitive answers. Sorry for the long post! UGH!
Wow! - Too much to read...If you want to know when your IDP hours start acrueing if you attend a college....its after you 3rd year of full-time schooling!
-I got screwed on this cause I started working in an architecture office before I even went to architecture school! -- Bastards!
On a related topic and following with the sentence reading:
"experience which is acceptable toward IDP may or may not be acceptable toward NYS requirements”
What sort of experience is accepted by IDP but not by NYS? I have started looking into it and it appears that if you work at a firm where the principal is not licensed your hours may count for IDP but not for NYS. Similarly, if there are two principals of the office BOTH must be licensed.
Has anyone had any experiences with this? I'm looking to avoid any surprises when I finally get around to starting my IDP file and retro actively collecting signatures similar to the original post.
Not in New York. NCARB accepts experience earned after your 3rd year of a B.Arch or pre-professional architecture major. But New York's board will not accept experience earned while you're also enrolled as a student, unless you're enrolled as less than half-time. This means that any job you hold while a student, or during winter/spring breaks does NOT count. New York generally requires 3 years of experience AFTER graduation, though there are some exceptions.
You can do that, but it adds a lot of expense and time to the process. You'd have to get a license in another state, which takes anywhere from a few weeks to several months depending on the state, pay that state's application fees and annual dues, and then either apply to NY for direct reciprocity without an NCARB certificate - which costs close to $600 to NY for the application - or apply for an NCARB certificate (wait time +/- 7 months, application fee $0 to $270 depending on IDP status, annual dues $80-$200) and then pay NY over $350 for the , and then the wait for NY to process you is usually a month or two...
By the time you factor in all the time that takes, it's probably less time-consuming to accumulate a little more experience after graduation to make up for any student-era jobs that NY's board disallows.
As for the question of your supervisor's license status: For the most part the NY board has the same rules as NCARB - which means that an intern must be supervised directly, on-site, by a licensed architect. But in NY occasionally people seem to run into trouble when they worked for a firm in New York that is not properly licensed there. In other words it seems that the New York board uses interns' license applications as an impetus for investigations into firms' status and occasionally the applicant seems to get caught in the middle of that mess.
Could be right - probably your best bet is to pick up the phone and talk to someone. It's easy to be evasive with a form letter, but I reckon they will have to at least give you a partial answer on the phone.
Formerlyunknown - you have to work a minimum of 20 hrs a week for about..6...? straight months for one firm that has a licensed architect as its pricipal...after your 3rd year at an accredited architecture school. OR - 38 hrs a week for 10 consecutive weeks for a firm that has a licensed architect as its principal after your 3rd year at an accredited architecture school. Says so at the bottom of the microsoft excel spreadsheet for your IDP credit/hours.
It's not 10 weeks anymore. If your forms say that they're outdated (and I wouldn't be surprised if NCARB hasn't updated their excel spreadsheets.) The current minimum is 8 weeks - accordint the the current IDP handbook and Mentor's handbook. It was changed approximately 2 years ago.
New York has a different policy regarding eligible experience though (which can be found on New York's board's website) regarding work completed while a student.
Also: NCARB's definition of "Principal" does not necessarily mean "owner"... This is a complicated situation that doesn't come up much - but it can be an issue in certain states that allow architecture firms to be owned in full or in part by non-architects.
But always keep in mind that you have to satisfy NCARB's requirements AND any differences in the rules that your own state board may have.
...I saw an article somewhere that said soon, retroactive logging of hours would only be permitted for 6 months prior. That would really screw a lot of people, I think (myself included).
This is from the New York board's "Licensure Requirements":
Experience obtained concurrent with full-time education, including vacation time, nights, and weekends, will not be considered for credit. However, some credit may be awarded if the time taken to complete the program was extended because you were working at a job which meets the descriptions in categories I and J below...
And this is from NCARB's IDP "Duration Requirement" section on their website:
To earn training units in Training Settings A, B, C, D, and E, you must work at least 35 hours per week for a minimum period of eight consecutive weeks, or at least 20 hours per week for a minimum period of six consecutive months.
Yes, there is a push toward disallowing retroactive reporting. But if NCARB enacts this it would most likely have a "grandfather" period that would allow those already in the process to report experience already completed...
Also, NCARB can make any rules they like, but it's up to each individual state board to decide whether to adopt them.
For a long time Ohio's board had a 6-month limit on retroactive reporting. They were the only state to have it, so I think they abandoned that rule recently. But each state can do whatever it's board decides.
Always keep in mind that NCARB alone has no authority on its own. It is up to each state to adopt NCARB's rules - or not. A lot of states have their own peculiar rules or addendums or deletions to NCARB's rules.
So while it's true that NCARB accepts work earned after the 3rd year of an undegrad program for IDP credit, it's also true that if you're seeking initial registration in New York it does not matter one bit that NCARB accepts that, because New York doesn't.
Following up on my inquiry this is what I heard back from the state:::
"In order to provide architectural services in NYS, a firm must be owned by at least one architect. Architects may form permissible practice structures with licensed landscape architects, engineers, and land surveyors to offer any or all of those services, but a firm offering architectural services cannot be owned by any other type of licensee or non-licensee. It cannot legally provide architectural services in NYS otherwise. We cannot state whether experience at such a firm will be acceptable under category "J" (please refer to the information regarding licensure requirements on our web site, here); that decision would be made upon review of official documentation after a candidate has applied to take the exam. With respect to your second question, you may visit the Office of the Professions home page at to search for the licensure/registration status of those within licensed professions and business entities; select "online license verifications" at the top of the page. You may also search for corporation status on the Department of State web site at; discussion of permissible practice structures may be found at. However, even if a firm is of a permissible practice structure, the ownership must be such as to allow the offering of the applicable service."
So in my case I can stay where I am and hope they accept my time under category "J". Or go to a real architecture firm and have my time counted under category "I". I'm going with the latter. No point in risking finding out when I'm hoping to sit for the ARE's.
If anyone needs the contact information for the state boards that I got my answer from just send me an email and I'll pass it along.
Oct 16, 07 3:24 pm ·
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When IDP hours start in New York State
I was about to apply for IDP and retro-actively collect signatures for working experience. When can I consider the start date for working hours that count towards IDP in the state of New York? I have a 4 year pre-professional degree from the University of Michigan's architecture school from 1998 and a MArch from Harvard's design school in 2001.
I’ve read some forum letters saying you can start after your third year of your pre-professional or after your first year of professional Master’s degree. At Michigan, the four year program B.S. in Arch is actually a two year program (you apply to the architecture school after two years of undergrad). In any case, it seems like I could begin to get signatures for work the summer after I graduated from undergrad. I’ve written emails to the New York state board asking the same thing and received strange replies. Such as:
“Please contact NCARB to determine whether or not you are eligible to apply to the IDP program directly. If you are not, and need a memo from NYS, you will need to send us the following information:
- name
- full mailing address
- beginning and ending dates (mm/yyyy) of your education, name of the university, location, degrees earned, dates awarded (mm/yyyy).
- beginning and ending dates (mm/yyyy) of your experience, name(s) of the firm(s), location(s) of the firm(s), nature of the firm(s), title of each supervisor (indicate whether a licensed architect if applicable), and brief description of your job duties.”
AND
“If you are eligible to enter the IDP program directly, NCARB will establish experience acceptance criteria. Although NYS requires completion of the IDP program as one of the requirements for exam eligibility, it is NCARB's program. Please note that experience which is acceptable toward IDP may or may not be acceptable toward NYS requirements.”
So, I had a really simple question, and their last sentence “experience which is acceptable toward IDP may or may not be acceptable toward NYS requirements” is exactly what I was asking in the first place?!?! Basically, I’d like to know when I can start IDP hours so that I can ask former employers if they will sign for me. That way, I can be somewhat secure when filling out the IDP application about former experience. I hear this can be a point of contention, if the type/date of experience does not please the state board. Or if an annoying former employer does not agree with your interpretation of your work experience and will not sign, after your have submitted your IDP application listing their hours. I guess I just need to make some phone calls, but just wondering if you guys had definitive answers. Sorry for the long post! UGH!
Wow! - Too much to read...If you want to know when your IDP hours start acrueing if you attend a college....its after you 3rd year of full-time schooling!
-I got screwed on this cause I started working in an architecture office before I even went to architecture school! -- Bastards!
On a related topic and following with the sentence reading:
"experience which is acceptable toward IDP may or may not be acceptable toward NYS requirements”
What sort of experience is accepted by IDP but not by NYS? I have started looking into it and it appears that if you work at a firm where the principal is not licensed your hours may count for IDP but not for NYS. Similarly, if there are two principals of the office BOTH must be licensed.
Has anyone had any experiences with this? I'm looking to avoid any surprises when I finally get around to starting my IDP file and retro actively collecting signatures similar to the original post.
FYI, I had read through this post before which is what got me looking into it in the first place. But so far no hard answers from anyone.
96 credit hours, after that, IDP training units count given you meet all other criteria.
New York does not accept experience earned while you were enrolled as a student. That's the main difference.
"New York does not accept experience earned while you were enrolled as a student. That's the main difference."
-"its after you 3rd year of full-time schooling!"
Not in New York. NCARB accepts experience earned after your 3rd year of a B.Arch or pre-professional architecture major. But New York's board will not accept experience earned while you're also enrolled as a student, unless you're enrolled as less than half-time. This means that any job you hold while a student, or during winter/spring breaks does NOT count. New York generally requires 3 years of experience AFTER graduation, though there are some exceptions.
If that's the case, why not pursue licensure in another state and get reciprocity as soon as you finish your AREs?
You can do that, but it adds a lot of expense and time to the process. You'd have to get a license in another state, which takes anywhere from a few weeks to several months depending on the state, pay that state's application fees and annual dues, and then either apply to NY for direct reciprocity without an NCARB certificate - which costs close to $600 to NY for the application - or apply for an NCARB certificate (wait time +/- 7 months, application fee $0 to $270 depending on IDP status, annual dues $80-$200) and then pay NY over $350 for the , and then the wait for NY to process you is usually a month or two...
By the time you factor in all the time that takes, it's probably less time-consuming to accumulate a little more experience after graduation to make up for any student-era jobs that NY's board disallows.
As for the question of your supervisor's license status: For the most part the NY board has the same rules as NCARB - which means that an intern must be supervised directly, on-site, by a licensed architect. But in NY occasionally people seem to run into trouble when they worked for a firm in New York that is not properly licensed there. In other words it seems that the New York board uses interns' license applications as an impetus for investigations into firms' status and occasionally the applicant seems to get caught in the middle of that mess.
Could be right - probably your best bet is to pick up the phone and talk to someone. It's easy to be evasive with a form letter, but I reckon they will have to at least give you a partial answer on the phone.
Formerlyunknown - you have to work a minimum of 20 hrs a week for about..6...? straight months for one firm that has a licensed architect as its pricipal...after your 3rd year at an accredited architecture school. OR - 38 hrs a week for 10 consecutive weeks for a firm that has a licensed architect as its principal after your 3rd year at an accredited architecture school. Says so at the bottom of the microsoft excel spreadsheet for your IDP credit/hours.
It's not 10 weeks anymore. If your forms say that they're outdated (and I wouldn't be surprised if NCARB hasn't updated their excel spreadsheets.) The current minimum is 8 weeks - accordint the the current IDP handbook and Mentor's handbook. It was changed approximately 2 years ago.
New York has a different policy regarding eligible experience though (which can be found on New York's board's website) regarding work completed while a student.
Also: NCARB's definition of "Principal" does not necessarily mean "owner"... This is a complicated situation that doesn't come up much - but it can be an issue in certain states that allow architecture firms to be owned in full or in part by non-architects.
But always keep in mind that you have to satisfy NCARB's requirements AND any differences in the rules that your own state board may have.
...I saw an article somewhere that said soon, retroactive logging of hours would only be permitted for 6 months prior. That would really screw a lot of people, I think (myself included).
This is from the New York board's "Licensure Requirements":
Experience obtained concurrent with full-time education, including vacation time, nights, and weekends, will not be considered for credit. However, some credit may be awarded if the time taken to complete the program was extended because you were working at a job which meets the descriptions in categories I and J below...
And this is from NCARB's IDP "Duration Requirement" section on their website:
To earn training units in Training Settings A, B, C, D, and E, you must work at least 35 hours per week for a minimum period of eight consecutive weeks, or at least 20 hours per week for a minimum period of six consecutive months.
Yes, there is a push toward disallowing retroactive reporting. But if NCARB enacts this it would most likely have a "grandfather" period that would allow those already in the process to report experience already completed...
Also, NCARB can make any rules they like, but it's up to each individual state board to decide whether to adopt them.
For a long time Ohio's board had a 6-month limit on retroactive reporting. They were the only state to have it, so I think they abandoned that rule recently. But each state can do whatever it's board decides.
Always keep in mind that NCARB alone has no authority on its own. It is up to each state to adopt NCARB's rules - or not. A lot of states have their own peculiar rules or addendums or deletions to NCARB's rules.
So while it's true that NCARB accepts work earned after the 3rd year of an undegrad program for IDP credit, it's also true that if you're seeking initial registration in New York it does not matter one bit that NCARB accepts that, because New York doesn't.
Following up on my inquiry this is what I heard back from the state:::
"In order to provide architectural services in NYS, a firm must be owned by at least one architect. Architects may form permissible practice structures with licensed landscape architects, engineers, and land surveyors to offer any or all of those services, but a firm offering architectural services cannot be owned by any other type of licensee or non-licensee. It cannot legally provide architectural services in NYS otherwise. We cannot state whether experience at such a firm will be acceptable under category "J" (please refer to the information regarding licensure requirements on our web site, here); that decision would be made upon review of official documentation after a candidate has applied to take the exam. With respect to your second question, you may visit the Office of the Professions home page at to search for the licensure/registration status of those within licensed professions and business entities; select "online license verifications" at the top of the page. You may also search for corporation status on the Department of State web site at; discussion of permissible practice structures may be found at. However, even if a firm is of a permissible practice structure, the ownership must be such as to allow the offering of the applicable service."
So in my case I can stay where I am and hope they accept my time under category "J". Or go to a real architecture firm and have my time counted under category "I". I'm going with the latter. No point in risking finding out when I'm hoping to sit for the ARE's.
If anyone needs the contact information for the state boards that I got my answer from just send me an email and I'll pass it along.
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