I had the same experience with architectural recruiters that eastcoast had with military.... I think they found my info on the USGBC LEED AP listing, but they wouldn't stop! They would email or call me (at work, too!), I'd say that I wasn't interested, and they'd be very polite. But then they'd call two weeks later. I finally got a little angry and let them know that I was seriously displeased with the frequent interruptions at the office, and had told them to go away in every polite way I knew how. They claimed that their emails went automatically to a listserve created from listings on Monster and Careerbuilder, and they couldn't remove me as long as I was a member there. However, I have never been a member of either of those services....
Anyway, I guess what I take out of that experience is this: they don't discriminate, so they may or may not actually have anything that suits you; they don't stop, so they're annoying; and they lie!
wait now that i think about it more, i had a headhunter call me AT WORK once. i was like WTF? i'm at my firm right now, and no you can't have my personal information so that i can "move up" in the design field. bastards.
There are good ones and bad ones - a lot of recruiters that end up working for staffing firms just graduated from college, so keep that in mind.
Any decent architecture firm should be able to attract potential employees based on their rep, strength of portfolio, etc rather than having to resort to an outside staffing company/recruiters. I would steer clear of any recruiters calling about an architecture job - it's probably a schlock corporate firm with terrible work.
Architecture is not an industry that is well suited for recruiters - the majority of the hiring process is subjective rather than quantitative.
In defense of recruiters - it's a tough job. They're basically trying to make two people happy; the company whose position they're trying to fill and the candidate who's looking for a job. If neither one is happy and the person ends up quitting or getting fired, the recruiter doesn't get paid - it's in their best interest to put the right people together.
Contrary to popular belief, they don't get paid very well either. They have a very low base pay and only get paid a commission bonus if all other goals (personal, group, division, and company) are met and that's only after everyone else higher on the food chain gets their taste. It's a high-stress, long hour environment with tons of turnover.
I'm only speaking from personal experience - my wife worked as a recruiter for 3 years while she was getting her MBA. It was hellish for her...
in my experience, most head-hunters are whores -- their only real objective is to make a deal. they're worse than real-estate agents.
I've had exposure to many over the years and I've yet to experience one who really gives a crap either about the real needs of the firm or about the real needs of the employee.
most charge the employer 35-35% of your anticipated 1st year pay .. and their supposed "warranty" isn't worth the paper on which it's written.
their cost is totally unrelated to their value -- I really don't see how they maintain their businesses in good times or bad times.
but your claims are definitely true about some recruiters. you have to be careful
are real estate agents bad? i thought maybe used car salemen would be a better comparison for the point you're making...
when firms really need to staff up, a recruiter is a quick way to get candidates.
anyway, i am a recruiter myself and my success is due to thinking of the long term relationship. i rely on referrals to candidates' industry friends, so if i put them in a bad situation, they aren't going to refer me or ever work with me again. if i can't find them the right thing now, i may in 6 months or 3 years.
well -- I suppose rates will vary with geography -- however, in our community (and, in fact, with national headhunters our firm has used) the going rate is one-third of the position's first-year total compensation.
There are times when I have been annoyed by a recruiter that just wouldn't take no for an answer. However, the only time I actually gave a recruiter my personal information and allowed them to proceed in pursuing a particular position, the experience was good. I didn't get that job, but the idea of the recruiter as "agent" did sort of play out. Now, I wasn't under any illusions...I knew this guy was working for the firm, not me, but he was trying to make a match for the firm at a principal level position. This was all being handled very seriously. Neither the firm, the recruiter, or I, wanted to make a mistake. When I did not get the positiion, the recruiter was great about giving me feedback that I'm sure I would not have been able to get directly from the firm. And, even though I did not fit the needs of that particular firm, the recruiter was very interested in keeping me in his stable (so-to-speak) for other possible high-level positions.
From the employer side, even big name firms have a much harder time finding the right people than you might think. Sure, they get plenty of resumes, but when hiring for management level positions (which is where recruiters come into the picture most), finding the RIGHT person is extremely difficult. Recruiting services can, in many cases, plow through a lot of the BS and narrow the field to the truly qualified and exceptional candidates.
i get calls, at work, from recruiters on a relatively regular basis - most ppl in my office do - and i frequently will give my personal email to see what they've got to offer. but i've found, as a dear friend of mine said on the subject of arch recruiters: we're both speaking english, but we're not speaking the same language.
the last recruiter i corresponded with actually included smiley faces/emoticons in his request for a copy of my resume/cv. not sure if thats standard practice (of if thats just b/c i'm a woman and am friendly on the phone), but there is NO WAY i'm putting the future of my career in the hands of someone who includes that sort of thing in business correspondence...
i also find that they tend to not have any idea who they're talking to. if a recruiter is not familiar with the work of my current office (which is well-known) when they call, they clearly don't know much about the nyc market, the field of architecture in general and what my next step might be. a simple web search before a cold call would remedy that...
Recruiters suck ass! I dealt with a couple(areotek was a big one) I went on an interview w/ a recruiter so he could see what I was capable of. He asked me what I wanted to get paid...I said min. 50,000yr based on experience...he said the most I would be able to get you is about 35,000-38,000 b/c you just graduated college. I laughed in his face and walked out of the interview. Went on a few interview at arch offices on my own. was offered 52,000 at one place and 50,000 at another...took the 52,000 later relizing that she wanted much more out of me than I had expected. Later went with the 50,000...and much happier.
RECRUITERS SUCK!
Thoughts on Recruiters
Can you tell me both your positive and negative experiences working with recruiters in this industry?
good paying jobs, phone calls the week after they land you the job to see if you will take another
can't speak for this industry, but military recruiters are annoying ass ticks. no means no. stop calling me.
I had a good experience. Got a good position with a good, decent sized firm, for a good price. It's like having an agent.
I had the same experience with architectural recruiters that eastcoast had with military.... I think they found my info on the USGBC LEED AP listing, but they wouldn't stop! They would email or call me (at work, too!), I'd say that I wasn't interested, and they'd be very polite. But then they'd call two weeks later. I finally got a little angry and let them know that I was seriously displeased with the frequent interruptions at the office, and had told them to go away in every polite way I knew how. They claimed that their emails went automatically to a listserve created from listings on Monster and Careerbuilder, and they couldn't remove me as long as I was a member there. However, I have never been a member of either of those services....
Anyway, I guess what I take out of that experience is this: they don't discriminate, so they may or may not actually have anything that suits you; they don't stop, so they're annoying; and they lie!
wait now that i think about it more, i had a headhunter call me AT WORK once. i was like WTF? i'm at my firm right now, and no you can't have my personal information so that i can "move up" in the design field. bastards.
There are good ones and bad ones - a lot of recruiters that end up working for staffing firms just graduated from college, so keep that in mind.
Any decent architecture firm should be able to attract potential employees based on their rep, strength of portfolio, etc rather than having to resort to an outside staffing company/recruiters. I would steer clear of any recruiters calling about an architecture job - it's probably a schlock corporate firm with terrible work.
Architecture is not an industry that is well suited for recruiters - the majority of the hiring process is subjective rather than quantitative.
In defense of recruiters - it's a tough job. They're basically trying to make two people happy; the company whose position they're trying to fill and the candidate who's looking for a job. If neither one is happy and the person ends up quitting or getting fired, the recruiter doesn't get paid - it's in their best interest to put the right people together.
Contrary to popular belief, they don't get paid very well either. They have a very low base pay and only get paid a commission bonus if all other goals (personal, group, division, and company) are met and that's only after everyone else higher on the food chain gets their taste. It's a high-stress, long hour environment with tons of turnover.
I'm only speaking from personal experience - my wife worked as a recruiter for 3 years while she was getting her MBA. It was hellish for her...
Can anyone recommend a good recruiter in the CA or IL area?
in my experience, most head-hunters are whores -- their only real objective is to make a deal. they're worse than real-estate agents.
I've had exposure to many over the years and I've yet to experience one who really gives a crap either about the real needs of the firm or about the real needs of the employee.
most charge the employer 35-35% of your anticipated 1st year pay .. and their supposed "warranty" isn't worth the paper on which it's written.
their cost is totally unrelated to their value -- I really don't see how they maintain their businesses in good times or bad times.
the going rate is 20-25%. 35% is unheard of.
but your claims are definitely true about some recruiters. you have to be careful
are real estate agents bad? i thought maybe used car salemen would be a better comparison for the point you're making...
when firms really need to staff up, a recruiter is a quick way to get candidates.
anyway, i am a recruiter myself and my success is due to thinking of the long term relationship. i rely on referrals to candidates' industry friends, so if i put them in a bad situation, they aren't going to refer me or ever work with me again. if i can't find them the right thing now, i may in 6 months or 3 years.
well -- I suppose rates will vary with geography -- however, in our community (and, in fact, with national headhunters our firm has used) the going rate is one-third of the position's first-year total compensation.
ah, well tell them about me. i'll give them a much better rate:)
There are times when I have been annoyed by a recruiter that just wouldn't take no for an answer. However, the only time I actually gave a recruiter my personal information and allowed them to proceed in pursuing a particular position, the experience was good. I didn't get that job, but the idea of the recruiter as "agent" did sort of play out. Now, I wasn't under any illusions...I knew this guy was working for the firm, not me, but he was trying to make a match for the firm at a principal level position. This was all being handled very seriously. Neither the firm, the recruiter, or I, wanted to make a mistake. When I did not get the positiion, the recruiter was great about giving me feedback that I'm sure I would not have been able to get directly from the firm. And, even though I did not fit the needs of that particular firm, the recruiter was very interested in keeping me in his stable (so-to-speak) for other possible high-level positions.
From the employer side, even big name firms have a much harder time finding the right people than you might think. Sure, they get plenty of resumes, but when hiring for management level positions (which is where recruiters come into the picture most), finding the RIGHT person is extremely difficult. Recruiting services can, in many cases, plow through a lot of the BS and narrow the field to the truly qualified and exceptional candidates.
i get calls, at work, from recruiters on a relatively regular basis - most ppl in my office do - and i frequently will give my personal email to see what they've got to offer. but i've found, as a dear friend of mine said on the subject of arch recruiters: we're both speaking english, but we're not speaking the same language.
the last recruiter i corresponded with actually included smiley faces/emoticons in his request for a copy of my resume/cv. not sure if thats standard practice (of if thats just b/c i'm a woman and am friendly on the phone), but there is NO WAY i'm putting the future of my career in the hands of someone who includes that sort of thing in business correspondence...
i also find that they tend to not have any idea who they're talking to. if a recruiter is not familiar with the work of my current office (which is well-known) when they call, they clearly don't know much about the nyc market, the field of architecture in general and what my next step might be. a simple web search before a cold call would remedy that...
Recruiters suck ass! I dealt with a couple(areotek was a big one) I went on an interview w/ a recruiter so he could see what I was capable of. He asked me what I wanted to get paid...I said min. 50,000yr based on experience...he said the most I would be able to get you is about 35,000-38,000 b/c you just graduated college. I laughed in his face and walked out of the interview. Went on a few interview at arch offices on my own. was offered 52,000 at one place and 50,000 at another...took the 52,000 later relizing that she wanted much more out of me than I had expected. Later went with the 50,000...and much happier.
RECRUITERS SUCK!
eastcoastarch03
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