I get along great with my employers, but they are MY EMPLOYERS. The issue is that they are only 12 years older than me and retiring isn't going to happen soon. Do I stay and drive the value of the firm up with my skills so that in ten years they can sell it to me at a higher price or do I go it alone? I doubt they will ever take on a new partner, I see the firm dying when they do.
There is more to running a firm than hanging out a shingle. It is tough and over time you will be doing less and less architecture and more and more managing as well as chasing work.
If you are licensed, I would bring it up to them and let them know where you stand.
in terms of investment point of view, buying an architectural firm is not a good investment. and u do not normally drive a firm value up before u buy it.
if u have some money now, u should start investing and to generate enough money for u to retire at young age.
and ur current employer would probably sell it to whomever pay a higher price by that time.
"Do I stay and drive the value of the firm up with my skills so that in ten years they can sell it to me at a higher price or do I go it alone? "
There's a certain, uncomfortable arrogance to this statement that suggests the founders make no contribution at all and you're providing all the value. If you really feel that way, perhaps you've already made your decision.
On the other hand, one becomes a partner in an existing firm by making a contribution worthy of a partner. Often, this can be accomplished at a much lower cost, and at much lower risk, than striking out on one's own
There's a strong evolution underway in our profession toward bigger and bigger firms - if we continue to approach our careers from the "cell division" perspective, more and more small firms are going to become less and less relevant.
Quizzical- Good points about the evolution to larger firms. I know of several small firms that have gotten gobbled up by the big boys. Many times the small firm can't get or handle the big projects and needs a large influx of staff. Having worked on massive $100M type projects I know a firm of 10 people just cannot do it. That's why most smaller firms are doing homes and niche projects and not the new football stadium or hospital or high school, etc. And that's why I have gravitated towards larger firms, knowing that's where my interest lies. If I were you I'd think more about the type of architecture you want to do. Unless you have some huge clients that adore you, going off on your own will take nearly a working lifetime to acheive "corporate" firm status and the projects that comes with it.
Quizzical...I don't want to sound arrogant. The principals at my firm make enormous contributions to their firm, but I work at firm of 9 and I am the only RA in the office. They use my license to their benefit, they market the firm as having 3 RA's, send me on job leads, etc. Time and time I get to play clean-up, and I am consistently the most profitable staff member in the office. With no addition compensation or input in the course of events that will determine my day to day, I find it difficult not feeling used.
"On the other hand, one becomes a partner in an existing firm by making a contribution worthy of a partner." Is true, but if the mind set is this is mine and I am not giving it up to anyone. We have lost 3 other Ra's over the last ten years, who have all experienced the same thing. I was warned, but I didn't think I would be in the same situation. If they have resolved to never change the firm, how do approach someone who sees you as a threat?
jersey - I think you have an argument for them making you a partner. However before you make the move, check to see if you can actually create work - clients, resources, etc. Just in case they give you the boot. Otherwise good luck brother!!
With that additional explanation, I see your point. I just read your original note in a narrower light ... good luck on your decision.
You do understand that your options extend beyond a) starting your own firm; and b) staying where you are now. Depending on where you're located, I'm sure there are some bigger, more progressive firms out there that would value what you can do and help you develop a career track that you would find satisfying.
if you leave, i assume they would still have an RA to sign the drawings. This is their fail safe, think of it in their shoes, what if you did leave? They have to have options if you decide to no-show. Personally, I would line up some clients, get some insurance, and head out the door.
Jersey boy: I worked in a firm where there were four staff and one Principal Partner. Interestly we where titled....architecture group. I was the only unregistered person aside from the office manager. I liked working in the firm but being the new hire, I knew from the get go there would be no great future working there, because both of the other architectural staff were registered, and one had been with the partner from day one. So when I recieved my Architectural Registration, I got lots of that is great....ya great. I think I stayed maybe two more months. Took my savings bought a plotter and a autodesk 14. Joined another old Architect who wanted to unload his firm on me. One day it was worth millions the next day he wanted to give it away. He drew on Vellum while I drew on the Computer. After a year I came to realize what he really wanted to do was work four days a week and draw a full pay check along with the bennies....we
also employeed his daughter college educated do nothing hang around the office kind of person. Finally I told him is wasn't working,
I sat down with him and divided up the work in the office based upon who brought the work in to the office. It was more or less a 50/50 split. The jobs which looked like they were dead in the water for one reason or the other we also split up. We parted ways and I have been on my own ever since, except I have since married an architect so now it is two of us. I say go for it....it is scarry but not that bad.
I too am married in the profession. After I had the firm up and running for six months she was able to quite her job and work at our firm full time. That was 8 ½ years ago.
There are days working with your significant other can be quite hard. However I would not trade it for the world.
Back to the point… Go out on your own while you are young (DINK or a SINK) If it does not pan out the next firm that hires you will know that you have an experience that only few can offer.
When do you know is time to go out on your own?
I get along great with my employers, but they are MY EMPLOYERS. The issue is that they are only 12 years older than me and retiring isn't going to happen soon. Do I stay and drive the value of the firm up with my skills so that in ten years they can sell it to me at a higher price or do I go it alone? I doubt they will ever take on a new partner, I see the firm dying when they do.
Any thoughts?
There is more to running a firm than hanging out a shingle. It is tough and over time you will be doing less and less architecture and more and more managing as well as chasing work.
If you are licensed, I would bring it up to them and let them know where you stand.
in terms of investment point of view, buying an architectural firm is not a good investment. and u do not normally drive a firm value up before u buy it.
if u have some money now, u should start investing and to generate enough money for u to retire at young age.
and ur current employer would probably sell it to whomever pay a higher price by that time.
There's a certain, uncomfortable arrogance to this statement that suggests the founders make no contribution at all and you're providing all the value. If you really feel that way, perhaps you've already made your decision.
On the other hand, one becomes a partner in an existing firm by making a contribution worthy of a partner. Often, this can be accomplished at a much lower cost, and at much lower risk, than striking out on one's own
There's a strong evolution underway in our profession toward bigger and bigger firms - if we continue to approach our careers from the "cell division" perspective, more and more small firms are going to become less and less relevant.
Quizzical- Good points about the evolution to larger firms. I know of several small firms that have gotten gobbled up by the big boys. Many times the small firm can't get or handle the big projects and needs a large influx of staff. Having worked on massive $100M type projects I know a firm of 10 people just cannot do it. That's why most smaller firms are doing homes and niche projects and not the new football stadium or hospital or high school, etc. And that's why I have gravitated towards larger firms, knowing that's where my interest lies. If I were you I'd think more about the type of architecture you want to do. Unless you have some huge clients that adore you, going off on your own will take nearly a working lifetime to acheive "corporate" firm status and the projects that comes with it.
Quizzical...I don't want to sound arrogant. The principals at my firm make enormous contributions to their firm, but I work at firm of 9 and I am the only RA in the office. They use my license to their benefit, they market the firm as having 3 RA's, send me on job leads, etc. Time and time I get to play clean-up, and I am consistently the most profitable staff member in the office. With no addition compensation or input in the course of events that will determine my day to day, I find it difficult not feeling used.
"On the other hand, one becomes a partner in an existing firm by making a contribution worthy of a partner." Is true, but if the mind set is this is mine and I am not giving it up to anyone. We have lost 3 other Ra's over the last ten years, who have all experienced the same thing. I was warned, but I didn't think I would be in the same situation. If they have resolved to never change the firm, how do approach someone who sees you as a threat?
jersey - I think you have an argument for them making you a partner. However before you make the move, check to see if you can actually create work - clients, resources, etc. Just in case they give you the boot. Otherwise good luck brother!!
With that additional explanation, I see your point. I just read your original note in a narrower light ... good luck on your decision.
You do understand that your options extend beyond a) starting your own firm; and b) staying where you are now. Depending on where you're located, I'm sure there are some bigger, more progressive firms out there that would value what you can do and help you develop a career track that you would find satisfying.
if you leave, i assume they would still have an RA to sign the drawings. This is their fail safe, think of it in their shoes, what if you did leave? They have to have options if you decide to no-show. Personally, I would line up some clients, get some insurance, and head out the door.
Please explain “The principals at my firm make enormous contributions to their firm, but I work at firm of 9 and I am the only RA in the office”
SOM got in trouble with showing “partner status” to someone who was not an RA.
In Illinois 2/3 of the directors must be an RA.
How are they operating?
dsc_arch
I need to correct my statement, I am the only other RA in the office.
Jersey boy: I worked in a firm where there were four staff and one Principal Partner. Interestly we where titled....architecture group. I was the only unregistered person aside from the office manager. I liked working in the firm but being the new hire, I knew from the get go there would be no great future working there, because both of the other architectural staff were registered, and one had been with the partner from day one. So when I recieved my Architectural Registration, I got lots of that is great....ya great. I think I stayed maybe two more months. Took my savings bought a plotter and a autodesk 14. Joined another old Architect who wanted to unload his firm on me. One day it was worth millions the next day he wanted to give it away. He drew on Vellum while I drew on the Computer. After a year I came to realize what he really wanted to do was work four days a week and draw a full pay check along with the bennies....we
also employeed his daughter college educated do nothing hang around the office kind of person. Finally I told him is wasn't working,
I sat down with him and divided up the work in the office based upon who brought the work in to the office. It was more or less a 50/50 split. The jobs which looked like they were dead in the water for one reason or the other we also split up. We parted ways and I have been on my own ever since, except I have since married an architect so now it is two of us. I say go for it....it is scarry but not that bad.
"and they say never marry within your profession"
you should have married an engineer, that way you dont need consultants!
I too am married in the profession. After I had the firm up and running for six months she was able to quite her job and work at our firm full time. That was 8 ½ years ago.
There are days working with your significant other can be quite hard. However I would not trade it for the world.
Back to the point… Go out on your own while you are young (DINK or a SINK) If it does not pan out the next firm that hires you will know that you have an experience that only few can offer.
jersey, there might be useful information here...
dsc -
i love my spouse (who is an architect as well) too much to work with her... ;)
Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to go for it. The worst that can happen is that I loose my house, family, and health.
And I married a school teacher. There is something to be said about leaving work at work.
good luck, man --- by the way, you might want to acquire this book: Architect's Essentials of Starting a Design Firm
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