What would you do if your firm has in the past 4 months put 6 people out on loan to another fiirm b/c of a lull in work at your office? Principals said that these people would come back in a few months...now its about 4 months no-one has come back yet, one of those people was canned a month ago (I thought he was a pretty damn good architect too!)
-And know they have approached me and said in 2 weeks I will be going on loan to another office! I will be working on similar projects but not on the same program ive been using (im going back in time to AutoCAD from Revit which ive been using since febuary) Kinda sucks cause i really like this office and ive never felt this way about a job before. Bummer! What to do...What to do!
first - take a deep breath. this is what happens when work slows down in this industry. it's not the end of the world.
second - relax, and then consider that this is the only industry I've ever encountered where competing firms actually "loan" each other labor - that's a good thing that you should admire. you'll probably get some ineresting experience at this other firm.
third - if you really like the firm where you now work, try not to get all agitated about this - the fact that they are going to the trouble to loan you out (and, I can verify that it is a LOT of trouble) means they like you too - they are looking for a way to maintain your relationship with the firm, without going bankrupt in the process. they could have just let you go !
fourth - start considering what your options might be - consider that you really may need a parachute - if I were you, once you get that sorta squared away, I'd have a candid conversation with a principal you trust - express your anxiety - let him/her know a little about your options - convey your commitment to the firm - ask for his/her honest advice. I expect you'll be surprised at the level of candor you receive back.
about 5 years back our firm was forced into a situation where we could not afford all of our staff. we let the weaker performers go - we loaned out the ones we really wanted to keep -- 80% of those we loaned out really appreciated what we did for them ('cause there wasn't any other jobs out there) and they returned to our firm when it was possible for us to pay them again. They're all still with us today.
yeah I hear ya its just that this firm is extremely top heavy...meaning that there are many architects and managers and 1 drafter designer who touches just about evey job in the office who they said they could never let go on loan b/c they would have no one to do the heavy cd's and designing load...that person is me...im the lowest on the todem pole. now since they told me they would never let me go on loan...and now they are...this scares me a bit.
-i dont think id have a problem getting a job...a friend of mine has been asking me if i know anyone to work in their offfice and now im concidering cause id definatly be using revit and the projects are way cool...but i dont really need to work w/ a friend...been there dont that!
-thanks for the kind advice thought - much appreciated!
cool down, man - it'll be ok. nobody's out to screw you - reread quiz's post - this could be a good thing.
try to approach this with a positive attitude. if you go out on-loan, you not only maintain a relationship with a firm you like - you also retain your seniority when you go back. if you start over with a new firm, you'll be low-man, and first to go if the econmy sours - plus, you're rolling the dice about whether you'll like the new firm.
I say 'stick it out' and make the best of a difficult situation.
quizzical's advice was excellent...just do add from previous personal experience...i was "loaned" once, and it can be, in deed, difficult to deal with the insecurity, but in my case, it turned out to be my first design lead on a sizable project. There are potentially, a lot of positive aspects to this situation, we are the stones...and when i returned to the previous office (7 months later, btw), i shifted into another - more desirable - position due to the feedback they received;
is it only me, or does it make you happy when you read good solid non-cynical, non-sarcast, advice on archinect...
I appreciate a firm that goes to all ends to keep their people employed and happy. Loaning out employees seems like a good solution to a tough problem for all.
About 10 years ago I was working for a firm in San Francisco. Well known place. This office was on the small side: 12-15 people. At one point, we had a serious down turn in work.
The partners pulled us into the conference room and told us of their problem. Their solution? All employees would work four days a week with an equivalent cut in pay. Some would take Fridays off. Some would have Mondays off. Partners would continue to work the same hours while also taking the same pay cut. They opend the discussion up to what we thought and if there were other suggestions. They also said that if this would not work for any of us to come talk to them to see how they could resolve the situation. This lasted about four months before we all returned to full time. No employees jumped ship either.
While it was tough on all of us, I greatly appreciated their dedication to keeping us employed. It showed they truly valued us.
e.. I had the same situation but it was inverse all the employees told the boss we would cut back to 3-4 days a week and didn't let anyone loose there job, kind of back fired though as the boss was pretty stressed out and ended up giving us some very poor direction over the following weeks there after and ended up loosing the strongest techincal staffer and then I left shortly after.
I realized that I had no seniority in the firm even though I had been there the longest, It was a wake up call to move on.
On the other hand I appreciate the efforts of the bosses to keep staff busy and active during a lull, Its part of being professional, it will chnage and its good to be able to be nimble enough to adapt. It is important to resolve the emotional aspects of the situation and sometimes that part is more difficult. Its a different dynamic if your just starting out, near retirement or like me freshly married with a child on the way ( that was scary )
I went thru a period like that back in the 70's duriing the oil crisis.
We went to a four day week, that was everyone except me and the partners, as I was the essential office boy and my pay didn't amount to alot so they figured they better keep me around just to keep the office moving smoothly. We roughed along, then Christmas came along...and no was not a bonus for anyone in the office. However the big boss.....Jewish, bought me a plane ticket using money from his personal checking account, so I could go back to the high plains and spend the holiday with my family. Things changed around for the better, and they went back to working full time and I decided it was time to move on for personal reasons. I was tired of living in Boston, and needed a break from school. I'm always thankful for the way I was treated at that firm.
I worked for a place that let a guy go the day before his wedding and honeymoon ... we had a long debate which would be worse ... send him packing then or on the day he returned.
Well.....................I got whored out to this other firm and its not half bad. The place is kinda small (10 peeps)
-Working on a dream project (practically my thesis project)
-Using Revit when I though id be using AutoCRACKkillmyselfw/theexplodebutton - program
-30 min train ride to work instead of 45-50mins
-in a downtown area that has places i can walk to for lunch
-all Im doing is 3D...no CD deadlines...just small design deadlines
-I was told NOT to answer the phones
-I go home an 1-1/2hrs earlier(but I dont get the 1-2 flex days a month)
-And I have some fellow New Yorkers to conversate w/.
-And best of all my real Boss from the 1st office called today and said that the boss from the second office called and said "where the hell did you get that kid from...he's amazing"
honestly I havent done much but I get ooooooo's and aaaaaaaa's all day! I guess 3D will do that.
-thanks to everyone who posted in this thread for keepin' it real
there was a chiche...term a long time ago...long before I was born..
Back in FDR's days. It was called, " A mugwup." That is a fella with his mug on one side of the fence and his wup on the other side of the fence. Maybe you found your self a much better position...and can no longer be called a: "Mugwup"
Im back...in my old office that is....with a new desk...bigger monitor...and a raise!!! WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Happened back in December...but have been busy crankin out my first set of CD's in REVIT...for some reason today I feel the need to spend alot of time here........
Out on Loan!!! WTF?
What would you do if your firm has in the past 4 months put 6 people out on loan to another fiirm b/c of a lull in work at your office? Principals said that these people would come back in a few months...now its about 4 months no-one has come back yet, one of those people was canned a month ago (I thought he was a pretty damn good architect too!)
-And know they have approached me and said in 2 weeks I will be going on loan to another office! I will be working on similar projects but not on the same program ive been using (im going back in time to AutoCAD from Revit which ive been using since febuary) Kinda sucks cause i really like this office and ive never felt this way about a job before. Bummer! What to do...What to do!
if you even know a little revit you should get a job somewhere else. sounds like they are trying to give a heads up.
first - take a deep breath. this is what happens when work slows down in this industry. it's not the end of the world.
second - relax, and then consider that this is the only industry I've ever encountered where competing firms actually "loan" each other labor - that's a good thing that you should admire. you'll probably get some ineresting experience at this other firm.
third - if you really like the firm where you now work, try not to get all agitated about this - the fact that they are going to the trouble to loan you out (and, I can verify that it is a LOT of trouble) means they like you too - they are looking for a way to maintain your relationship with the firm, without going bankrupt in the process. they could have just let you go !
fourth - start considering what your options might be - consider that you really may need a parachute - if I were you, once you get that sorta squared away, I'd have a candid conversation with a principal you trust - express your anxiety - let him/her know a little about your options - convey your commitment to the firm - ask for his/her honest advice. I expect you'll be surprised at the level of candor you receive back.
about 5 years back our firm was forced into a situation where we could not afford all of our staff. we let the weaker performers go - we loaned out the ones we really wanted to keep -- 80% of those we loaned out really appreciated what we did for them ('cause there wasn't any other jobs out there) and they returned to our firm when it was possible for us to pay them again. They're all still with us today.
yeah I hear ya its just that this firm is extremely top heavy...meaning that there are many architects and managers and 1 drafter designer who touches just about evey job in the office who they said they could never let go on loan b/c they would have no one to do the heavy cd's and designing load...that person is me...im the lowest on the todem pole. now since they told me they would never let me go on loan...and now they are...this scares me a bit.
-i dont think id have a problem getting a job...a friend of mine has been asking me if i know anyone to work in their offfice and now im concidering cause id definatly be using revit and the projects are way cool...but i dont really need to work w/ a friend...been there dont that!
-thanks for the kind advice thought - much appreciated!
what kind of stud fee are they charging for your services????
nothin' - thats why im upset!!! LOL! i mean at least give me something for my juice!
damn - everybody's really pissed off tonight!
cool down, man - it'll be ok. nobody's out to screw you - reread quiz's post - this could be a good thing.
try to approach this with a positive attitude. if you go out on-loan, you not only maintain a relationship with a firm you like - you also retain your seniority when you go back. if you start over with a new firm, you'll be low-man, and first to go if the econmy sours - plus, you're rolling the dice about whether you'll like the new firm.
I say 'stick it out' and make the best of a difficult situation.
loaners are floaters keeping the bill fold closer
thanks for the advice - i keep everyone posted!
quizzical's advice was excellent...just do add from previous personal experience...i was "loaned" once, and it can be, in deed, difficult to deal with the insecurity, but in my case, it turned out to be my first design lead on a sizable project. There are potentially, a lot of positive aspects to this situation, we are the stones...and when i returned to the previous office (7 months later, btw), i shifted into another - more desirable - position due to the feedback they received;
is it only me, or does it make you happy when you read good solid non-cynical, non-sarcast, advice on archinect...
thanks, simples - nice compliment.
this is a nicer, more effective place when civility reigns
I appreciate a firm that goes to all ends to keep their people employed and happy. Loaning out employees seems like a good solution to a tough problem for all.
About 10 years ago I was working for a firm in San Francisco. Well known place. This office was on the small side: 12-15 people. At one point, we had a serious down turn in work.
The partners pulled us into the conference room and told us of their problem. Their solution? All employees would work four days a week with an equivalent cut in pay. Some would take Fridays off. Some would have Mondays off. Partners would continue to work the same hours while also taking the same pay cut. They opend the discussion up to what we thought and if there were other suggestions. They also said that if this would not work for any of us to come talk to them to see how they could resolve the situation. This lasted about four months before we all returned to full time. No employees jumped ship either.
While it was tough on all of us, I greatly appreciated their dedication to keeping us employed. It showed they truly valued us.
e.. I had the same situation but it was inverse all the employees told the boss we would cut back to 3-4 days a week and didn't let anyone loose there job, kind of back fired though as the boss was pretty stressed out and ended up giving us some very poor direction over the following weeks there after and ended up loosing the strongest techincal staffer and then I left shortly after.
I realized that I had no seniority in the firm even though I had been there the longest, It was a wake up call to move on.
On the other hand I appreciate the efforts of the bosses to keep staff busy and active during a lull, Its part of being professional, it will chnage and its good to be able to be nimble enough to adapt. It is important to resolve the emotional aspects of the situation and sometimes that part is more difficult. Its a different dynamic if your just starting out, near retirement or like me freshly married with a child on the way ( that was scary )
Again thanks for the advice...Im pretty sure Im going to stick it out...unless something really crazy happens.
I went thru a period like that back in the 70's duriing the oil crisis.
We went to a four day week, that was everyone except me and the partners, as I was the essential office boy and my pay didn't amount to alot so they figured they better keep me around just to keep the office moving smoothly. We roughed along, then Christmas came along...and no was not a bonus for anyone in the office. However the big boss.....Jewish, bought me a plane ticket using money from his personal checking account, so I could go back to the high plains and spend the holiday with my family. Things changed around for the better, and they went back to working full time and I decided it was time to move on for personal reasons. I was tired of living in Boston, and needed a break from school. I'm always thankful for the way I was treated at that firm.
I worked at a place that let a guy go while he was gone on vacation. Be thankful you're not there.
I worked for a place that let a guy go the day before his wedding and honeymoon ... we had a long debate which would be worse ... send him packing then or on the day he returned.
agh man thats not right...both combs' post and aquapura...geez!
UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well.....................I got whored out to this other firm and its not half bad. The place is kinda small (10 peeps)
-Working on a dream project (practically my thesis project)
-Using Revit when I though id be using AutoCRACKkillmyselfw/theexplodebutton - program
-30 min train ride to work instead of 45-50mins
-in a downtown area that has places i can walk to for lunch
-all Im doing is 3D...no CD deadlines...just small design deadlines
-I was told NOT to answer the phones
-I go home an 1-1/2hrs earlier(but I dont get the 1-2 flex days a month)
-And I have some fellow New Yorkers to conversate w/.
-And best of all my real Boss from the 1st office called today and said that the boss from the second office called and said "where the hell did you get that kid from...he's amazing"
honestly I havent done much but I get ooooooo's and aaaaaaaa's all day! I guess 3D will do that.
-thanks to everyone who posted in this thread for keepin' it real
yeah!!
there was a chiche...term a long time ago...long before I was born..
Back in FDR's days. It was called, " A mugwup." That is a fella with his mug on one side of the fence and his wup on the other side of the fence. Maybe you found your self a much better position...and can no longer be called a: "Mugwup"
well i guess im still a mugwup, cause im going back to the first firm at the end of November.......so they say!! LOL
good for you stones - glad to see its working out...
yeah, man - glad it's working out for you.
this sort of thing actually is one of the things I love about this profession.
Im back...in my old office that is....with a new desk...bigger monitor...and a raise!!! WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Happened back in December...but have been busy crankin out my first set of CD's in REVIT...for some reason today I feel the need to spend alot of time here........
WATS - glad this worked out so well for you.
I think we're going to see a lot more of this sort of situation in the coming months.
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