Has there ever been a time where your enthusiasm of architecture was sucked dry or the profession, because of a co-worker, family member, criticism, or anyone else.
What did the person say, or how did it make you feel, and why did it take away that "spark". And What brought the "spark" back?
For me the spark disappeared from the moment I took my first job out of school and hasn't really returned since. I've only been in the working world 3.25 years, so I haven't given up all hope yet. I figure things will get better if I eventually start my own firm and/or move to a city with more progressive firms and a stronger acrhitectural community (though the latter is not something I particularly want to do or feel I should have to do since I'm pretty strongly rooted where I am). I've flirted with the idea of leaving the profession, but don't know what else I would do with myself. My enthusiasm has been pretty great when I've worked on volunteer design/build projects. That's something I do to keep the spark alive. Coming here and seeing a lot of people are going through the same things helps too.
everyday my soul is sucked dry. The only thing keeping the spark going is that I will be licensed shortly, at which time I can design buildings. I have no wife and Kids so I have nothing to lose. Who's comming with me?
I may add that Ive been doing this 10 yrs so Im not like a newbie getting a Lic. Ive also worked the contractor side and i got that intuition that I can do this better.
i worked for a douchebag that went to columbia and thought he was hot shit. i was constantly blamed for everything (i was fresh outta school) including said douche's inability to detail roof flashing or find something previous interns had "misplaced". his bipolar tendencies and extra curriculars drove everyone at the firm out. in fact, "le douche" has gone through about 10 people in 2.5 years - but it works out because his inability to manage thus prevented him from actually building most projects.
needless to say, it took about a year to move out beyond the soul sucking black hole after quitting. working for a firm that appreciated and nurtured my talents and interests - as well as just being great guys to work for, brought it back.
i also found in moments of crisis, doing my own thing (side projects, competitions, experiments) helped out a lot as well.
to quote a friend of a friend, "it's a damaging profession"
It's a roller coaster, just read my posts over the last 3 years! For every pissed off day/week I have (like now) I will have a hour/day of absolute elation. Just riding the ups and downs keeps me going...
I was discouraged by everyone far before I even though about entering the educational path of the profession. But I didn't listen to them. Now, most of those people who discouraged me wished they were in something like architecture. Instead many of them are insurance adjusters, car dealers, social workers, restaurant managers, medical assistants, or some other dry bullshit. An architect (despite the money deficiencies) will always be up there with other professions like law, medicine, finance, and such. It's a respectable profession if that helps you with the image thing.
You should always know exactly what to expect in the architecture profession and decide whether you can see yourself in the various situations.
When I haven't had enough spark lately, I go visit him in his office. Always refreshing and makes me feel better about the profession and continuing to :fight the good fight".
Actually, I need a fix soon.
Otherwise, archinect really does help remind me why I love this crazy business. It;s like talking to my girlfriends with young kids and understanding that we aren't the only family in which the dinner table is a battlefield every night - reinforcement that we all face similar problems and yet keep going out of love and optimism that our efforts do make a difference.
My dad and my father in law are both on the advisory boards of a couple of different banks. This means that 9 times out of 10, when I play golf, I'm playing with bankers. And they always ask me why I do it. These schmucks are making 6-7 figures off of a single, relatively easy to obtain bachelor's degree. It kills me.
The funny thing is, what has rekindled my interest is the CEO of the bank where my dad is on the advisory board. He sat me down in his office one day with the door closed, and told me how much he wished he would have gone into farming. He told me not to ever quit architecture.
He also spent an hour telling me all kinds of great ways to make money in the housing and construction industries. He then offered me financial backing if I move back to Lubbock after I get my license. Sure, I'm gonna sell out one day, and all you guys can talk some shit about it, but damn it, I love golf, and I love boats, and I'm gonna find a way to afford both.
actually, to be more optimistic about it all. i have lately been reading a great deal (well if after you have worked all day and don't doze off) of architectural writing and taking notes etc. it is a way to look the reasons why i went into this in the first place. analogous to searching for lost keys i guess.
Oh and when I'm feeling blue, I just sit around and watch old Brady Bunch re-runs and realize that someday I might be able to have a Hot wife, six blond children, live in a gigantic suburban house, and design the same exact project every day of my life.
My spark kind of died when I started my second job in the drafting field. I think it was because it wasn't Architectural drafting, it was more engineering based. Since I started doing some freelance with this Interior designer it's back full force and I going all the way. Plus doing networking on Archinect has help a lot also.
The spark pretty much died when I had that first summer internship and learned that we actually can't make money thinking up neat designs and making pretty pictures.
Since then I've pretty much been self medicating with booze. Considering starting my own brewery. Anyone care to join me?
i'm trying to get most of the soul sucking aspect out of the way while it's still early in my young career...i've noticed that the more i do what most architects consider grunt work, the more they get easier, and easier is less soul sucking. when i got my first job out of architecture school, i was hating construction documents...getting frustrated with red lines (red lines translated to me as fuck ups and incompetence)...so after a couple of projects that i worked on from start to finish, the grunt work becomes less painful. that's the employment side of it.
i get "sparks" here and there by talking about architecture with a former classmate/guitar jamming friend...and since i've been walking and taking the bus lately, i've been looking at suburban houses and looking at their uniqueness/slight variations. i've actually been seeing alot of suburban house typology that i think are quite humble looking. coincidentally, the "spreading like a virus" thread appears and i've been reading that.
and the ARE exams, i've been putting off. this morning though, as i was waiting for the bus and drinking coffee, i suddenly got a strong urge to start studying and begin taking the tests. the urge is actually a combination of trying to show my other architecture friend, who talks a lot of shit about licensing and how he says it's meaningless, that it's not a negative but a positive (my friend thinks that the licensing process, since it's technically based, will make him less artistic...i say boo to that)...and also now i have a gang of time to read the study books on the bus.
like what other's have said, it's in and out, up and down, here and there...
For me the first few years out of school were somewhat like a continuation of school. I had designy jobs, where I mostly "explored options" at the schematic level. I built a lot of pretty 3D models, argued my position fiercely about the most minute of details, worked on the firms' manifestos and competition entries... Sure, I had a little more pressure to design things that stand up, and a little more concern for a budget, and a certain amount of my time was wasted by periodic staff meetings and office politics. But otherwise I might as well have been back in studio.
The ARE was anticlimactic. It, and the license that came after it, didn't have a huge impact on my position in the profession, or on my view of it.
The soul-sucking happened when I started managing people and projects. When I started realizing that most of a day had gone by and all I'd done is talk on the phone, responded to RFIs, coddled whining interns, and dealt with computer problems. And then the next day there would be a different list of mundane tasks, and another the day after, but it seems there are rarely any fun ones anymore.
dammson: well I did say "coddled" - as in mollycoddle: to treat indulgently - not "cuddled", which would raise some more interesting images.
eastcoastarch03: I don't think there's much you can do to prevent it except: either never rise up to a position higher than "junior designer", so that you avoid assuming much of the responsibility for the day to day management of a firm; OR rise to a position such that you can have a large enough firm to hire others to do all the day to day management of the firm. But the latter is difficult to do without spending at least some time in a role that would involve a lot of these mundane tasks.
In the day to day working life of the average architect probably less than 5% of the time is spent on "design", if what you think of as design is the schematic drawing/planning/exploring that one does in school.
My intern jobs did allow a lot of that, but 10+years out of grad school I don't so much of that these days.
it happens a few times every year...you get smacked in the nose by reality, and then you adapt your frame of mind, adjust your expectations, reset your enthusiasm accordingly, think you understand the nature of the beast, work on a project that gets you a bit excited, and then suddenly, you get smacked in the nose by...
oh, and the particular physical environment i work in (suburban office "centre" - 5 variations of the same building, surrounded by a sea of parking, with its own cafeteria, and snack shop, all located right off the intersection of 2 local highways) sucks my soul dry every morning when i arrive to work...
if being an intern is fun...then...i better start planning out that brewery w/aquapura!
if i feel like i'm learning stuff on the job, am i paying my dues? i've kind of pondered whether that phrase is a real entity, or just another word for being inexperienced and learning the way. the most intense and regular spark i get at work is the occasional electric shock i get when i turn on the plotter in the morning...gets me almost every time!
In general it sounds like people are sayinig the amount of fun you have is inversely proportional to the amt of responsibilities and consequently amount of $ you get paid in which case there is no wonder some people take for granted interns work for them for free, since the underlings take 95% of the fun out of the boss' work!
"the spark disappeared from the moment I took my first job out of school and hasn't really returned since"
- my god, what's wrong with our education system? is the disconnect between academia and practice so totally screwed up that students have no earthly idea what they're training to become?
well i tend to think that an ideal academic environment shouldn't necessarily prepare you for everything you're going to face as you step beyond it...they're just two inherently different things, as you move from being in full control of your design projects in school to having little or no control over their direction. i don't think it's a bad thing that the academic world is often one of ideas of hypotheticals, (and yes, often disjointed from professional reality), we have the rest of our lives to draw bathroom details.
mfrech ... i undestand your perspective ... but, that's not my point.
i think you have to start with the idea that, for most people, the main purpose of college is to prepare for a career.
if people are coming out of a rigorous, academic situation -- and then just hate the workaday world in which they find themselves -- then (IMHO) the schools just are not giving the students the correct perspective of, or preparation for, the professional world they will be entering.
Best way to get the spark back is to quit your digusting job where you are utilized as a title block monkey and get a job in a better office where you think you belong.
Aug 11, 07 12:21 am ·
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Has There Ever Been a Time...
Has there ever been a time where your enthusiasm of architecture was sucked dry or the profession, because of a co-worker, family member, criticism, or anyone else.
What did the person say, or how did it make you feel, and why did it take away that "spark". And What brought the "spark" back?
Yes, a very jolly thread
For me the spark disappeared from the moment I took my first job out of school and hasn't really returned since. I've only been in the working world 3.25 years, so I haven't given up all hope yet. I figure things will get better if I eventually start my own firm and/or move to a city with more progressive firms and a stronger acrhitectural community (though the latter is not something I particularly want to do or feel I should have to do since I'm pretty strongly rooted where I am). I've flirted with the idea of leaving the profession, but don't know what else I would do with myself. My enthusiasm has been pretty great when I've worked on volunteer design/build projects. That's something I do to keep the spark alive. Coming here and seeing a lot of people are going through the same things helps too.
everyday my soul is sucked dry. The only thing keeping the spark going is that I will be licensed shortly, at which time I can design buildings. I have no wife and Kids so I have nothing to lose. Who's comming with me?
I may add that Ive been doing this 10 yrs so Im not like a newbie getting a Lic. Ive also worked the contractor side and i got that intuition that I can do this better.
i worked for a douchebag that went to columbia and thought he was hot shit. i was constantly blamed for everything (i was fresh outta school) including said douche's inability to detail roof flashing or find something previous interns had "misplaced". his bipolar tendencies and extra curriculars drove everyone at the firm out. in fact, "le douche" has gone through about 10 people in 2.5 years - but it works out because his inability to manage thus prevented him from actually building most projects.
needless to say, it took about a year to move out beyond the soul sucking black hole after quitting. working for a firm that appreciated and nurtured my talents and interests - as well as just being great guys to work for, brought it back.
i also found in moments of crisis, doing my own thing (side projects, competitions, experiments) helped out a lot as well.
to quote a friend of a friend, "it's a damaging profession"
i always get the "architects make so much money, you're going to be great". wtf? check archinect's salary poll and that quote is null and void.
and as for keeping that "spark" inside of me... i really don't know how i do it. i simply just love design and construction.
my soul has been crushed and used to surface the driveway.
now that's what i call environmental, vado
It's a roller coaster, just read my posts over the last 3 years! For every pissed off day/week I have (like now) I will have a hour/day of absolute elation. Just riding the ups and downs keeps me going...
I was discouraged by everyone far before I even though about entering the educational path of the profession. But I didn't listen to them. Now, most of those people who discouraged me wished they were in something like architecture. Instead many of them are insurance adjusters, car dealers, social workers, restaurant managers, medical assistants, or some other dry bullshit. An architect (despite the money deficiencies) will always be up there with other professions like law, medicine, finance, and such. It's a respectable profession if that helps you with the image thing.
You should always know exactly what to expect in the architecture profession and decide whether you can see yourself in the various situations.
When I haven't had enough spark lately, I go visit him in his office. Always refreshing and makes me feel better about the profession and continuing to :fight the good fight".
Actually, I need a fix soon.
Otherwise, archinect really does help remind me why I love this crazy business. It;s like talking to my girlfriends with young kids and understanding that we aren't the only family in which the dinner table is a battlefield every night - reinforcement that we all face similar problems and yet keep going out of love and optimism that our efforts do make a difference.
My dad and my father in law are both on the advisory boards of a couple of different banks. This means that 9 times out of 10, when I play golf, I'm playing with bankers. And they always ask me why I do it. These schmucks are making 6-7 figures off of a single, relatively easy to obtain bachelor's degree. It kills me.
The funny thing is, what has rekindled my interest is the CEO of the bank where my dad is on the advisory board. He sat me down in his office one day with the door closed, and told me how much he wished he would have gone into farming. He told me not to ever quit architecture.
He also spent an hour telling me all kinds of great ways to make money in the housing and construction industries. He then offered me financial backing if I move back to Lubbock after I get my license. Sure, I'm gonna sell out one day, and all you guys can talk some shit about it, but damn it, I love golf, and I love boats, and I'm gonna find a way to afford both.
farming and architecture...well there is fertilizer to spread.
;)
actually, to be more optimistic about it all. i have lately been reading a great deal (well if after you have worked all day and don't doze off) of architectural writing and taking notes etc. it is a way to look the reasons why i went into this in the first place. analogous to searching for lost keys i guess.
Oh and when I'm feeling blue, I just sit around and watch old Brady Bunch re-runs and realize that someday I might be able to have a Hot wife, six blond children, live in a gigantic suburban house, and design the same exact project every day of my life.
How many of you guys had pessimistic parents or relatives about your Architecture Major?
My spark kind of died when I started my second job in the drafting field. I think it was because it wasn't Architectural drafting, it was more engineering based. Since I started doing some freelance with this Interior designer it's back full force and I going all the way. Plus doing networking on Archinect has help a lot also.
The spark pretty much died when I had that first summer internship and learned that we actually can't make money thinking up neat designs and making pretty pictures.
Since then I've pretty much been self medicating with booze. Considering starting my own brewery. Anyone care to join me?
i'm trying to get most of the soul sucking aspect out of the way while it's still early in my young career...i've noticed that the more i do what most architects consider grunt work, the more they get easier, and easier is less soul sucking. when i got my first job out of architecture school, i was hating construction documents...getting frustrated with red lines (red lines translated to me as fuck ups and incompetence)...so after a couple of projects that i worked on from start to finish, the grunt work becomes less painful. that's the employment side of it.
i get "sparks" here and there by talking about architecture with a former classmate/guitar jamming friend...and since i've been walking and taking the bus lately, i've been looking at suburban houses and looking at their uniqueness/slight variations. i've actually been seeing alot of suburban house typology that i think are quite humble looking. coincidentally, the "spreading like a virus" thread appears and i've been reading that.
and the ARE exams, i've been putting off. this morning though, as i was waiting for the bus and drinking coffee, i suddenly got a strong urge to start studying and begin taking the tests. the urge is actually a combination of trying to show my other architecture friend, who talks a lot of shit about licensing and how he says it's meaningless, that it's not a negative but a positive (my friend thinks that the licensing process, since it's technically based, will make him less artistic...i say boo to that)...and also now i have a gang of time to read the study books on the bus.
like what other's have said, it's in and out, up and down, here and there...
For me the first few years out of school were somewhat like a continuation of school. I had designy jobs, where I mostly "explored options" at the schematic level. I built a lot of pretty 3D models, argued my position fiercely about the most minute of details, worked on the firms' manifestos and competition entries... Sure, I had a little more pressure to design things that stand up, and a little more concern for a budget, and a certain amount of my time was wasted by periodic staff meetings and office politics. But otherwise I might as well have been back in studio.
The ARE was anticlimactic. It, and the license that came after it, didn't have a huge impact on my position in the profession, or on my view of it.
The soul-sucking happened when I started managing people and projects. When I started realizing that most of a day had gone by and all I'd done is talk on the phone, responded to RFIs, coddled whining interns, and dealt with computer problems. And then the next day there would be a different list of mundane tasks, and another the day after, but it seems there are rarely any fun ones anymore.
the images are crazy...
i don't want these mundane activities you speak of to drag me down when i graduate. any alternatives? (since i'm still in undergrad)
dentistry...
?
pharmaceuticals.
one word... plastics.
dammson: well I did say "coddled" - as in mollycoddle: to treat indulgently - not "cuddled", which would raise some more interesting images.
eastcoastarch03: I don't think there's much you can do to prevent it except: either never rise up to a position higher than "junior designer", so that you avoid assuming much of the responsibility for the day to day management of a firm; OR rise to a position such that you can have a large enough firm to hire others to do all the day to day management of the firm. But the latter is difficult to do without spending at least some time in a role that would involve a lot of these mundane tasks.
In the day to day working life of the average architect probably less than 5% of the time is spent on "design", if what you think of as design is the schematic drawing/planning/exploring that one does in school.
My intern jobs did allow a lot of that, but 10+years out of grad school I don't so much of that these days.
it happens a few times every year...you get smacked in the nose by reality, and then you adapt your frame of mind, adjust your expectations, reset your enthusiasm accordingly, think you understand the nature of the beast, work on a project that gets you a bit excited, and then suddenly, you get smacked in the nose by...
oh, and the particular physical environment i work in (suburban office "centre" - 5 variations of the same building, surrounded by a sea of parking, with its own cafeteria, and snack shop, all located right off the intersection of 2 local highways) sucks my soul dry every morning when i arrive to work...
looking at you guys, it feels like interns have the most 'fun', or at least more than the licensed PMs
Um... thinking... nope. Never felt that way.
if being an intern is fun...then...i better start planning out that brewery w/aquapura!
if i feel like i'm learning stuff on the job, am i paying my dues? i've kind of pondered whether that phrase is a real entity, or just another word for being inexperienced and learning the way. the most intense and regular spark i get at work is the occasional electric shock i get when i turn on the plotter in the morning...gets me almost every time!
so, how many of you guys got "fed-up" with your boss, working atmosphere, or the tasks, that you quit, or did free-lancing.
In general it sounds like people are sayinig the amount of fun you have is inversely proportional to the amt of responsibilities and consequently amount of $ you get paid in which case there is no wonder some people take for granted interns work for them for free, since the underlings take 95% of the fun out of the boss' work!
- my god, what's wrong with our education system? is the disconnect between academia and practice so totally screwed up that students have no earthly idea what they're training to become?
wow, man ... I'd asked for my money back.
well i tend to think that an ideal academic environment shouldn't necessarily prepare you for everything you're going to face as you step beyond it...they're just two inherently different things, as you move from being in full control of your design projects in school to having little or no control over their direction. i don't think it's a bad thing that the academic world is often one of ideas of hypotheticals, (and yes, often disjointed from professional reality), we have the rest of our lives to draw bathroom details.
mfrech ... i undestand your perspective ... but, that's not my point.
i think you have to start with the idea that, for most people, the main purpose of college is to prepare for a career.
if people are coming out of a rigorous, academic situation -- and then just hate the workaday world in which they find themselves -- then (IMHO) the schools just are not giving the students the correct perspective of, or preparation for, the professional world they will be entering.
Best way to get the spark back is to quit your digusting job where you are utilized as a title block monkey and get a job in a better office where you think you belong.
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