It is the end of summer. You might think that there are at least 5 weeks until Labor Day, but for us the end of summer is now. Our summer intern is looking to move on. We had arranged for her to work until September, and now she is looking for another position. I am cool with it. She has worked for us for 3 summers and would like to try another firm before deciding what route to take in her career and help choose what Masters program to enter into. With her departure we are now considering hiring her replacement.
The twist this time is I don’t think I can hire a recent graduate with out any experience.
It has been a brutal cycle over the years: hire, train, get them productive (billable) and then they move on.
Many times they are unsure if they want to say in architecture, not sure where they want to live. Their average age has been 23-25. Over all, for the interns that can cut it, they stay for about two years. By that time they are running small projects, meeting with clients and ticking off their IDP units. They are fully trained and have become wonderful assets to their new firms. The main reason why they leave is it is time to move on and try new things. They are not ready to settle down.
I am a bit burnt out training recent grads.
I need to begin to look for that person who is moving on / up, and ready to settle down and make a career in architecture.
We are a small boutique firm that does light commercial, residential as well as design build projects. We are not corporate in any sense of the word, nor can we offer the type of salary the larger firms can offer. Yet we do keep in line with the AIA stay parameters.
However, we do offer a lot of opportunity for anyone who wishes to reach for it. As long as you are productive you can work up to 10 hours /week at overtime rates. We offer continuing education as well as give you exposure to a myriad of project types. We are a young firm (both principals are under 40).
I feel that we have a great working environment very much a studio. However, we are in the hinterland of Chicago and our work, while solid, is not architecture with a capital “A.”
Lately I feel that the good talent is being scooped up by the larger corporate firms (Gensler, Perkins and Will, SOM) or the starchitects. I am wondering how the boutique firms can compete with the larger corporate firms for the same emergent talent.
How are the boutique firms reaching out to those who are transitioning from the green recent grad into the seasoned intern?
there is hope- eventually all those freshly minted interns want to settle down. The stuff that attracted me (a few years past the freshly minted stage) is working on projects that I'm interested in and responsibility free of corporate bull. Since you seems to offer some of that sort of opportunity, your practice will sell itself by the high quality projects (no strip malls - right?) and offering competitive salaries, help with the ARE fees and a pleasant office environment.
You seem to have a good network of alumni, use them to recruit (and even invite the best of them back). They know people who have matured at other places and are looking for the next challenge.
There is also the question of location, if most of your work arrives because there are no other firms around for miles and miles, it will be hard to attract talent. If your projects find you because of reputation, service and other marketing efforts - then consider relocating into a hipper (and more intern architect friendly) neighborhood that is not in the middle of no-where. Pluses for location includes a few good restaurants and bars within walking distance, connections to transit, and proximity to cultural activities. I have avoided submitting my resume to any firms that are outside the first ring suburbs, unless they are highly distinctive and iconoclastic.
Thank you for your encouragement. I'll try the alumni angle.
Since we live a total of five minutes form the office I don’t really want to have to drive. Bad for the envionment.
As for hip restaurants and bars, we design them. Pretty much one is on the boards at any given time. There have cropped up a number of sole practitioners in our area.
Its worth trying exit interviews and following up with folks that decline a job offer as to why they choose another opportunity.
I do dream of working a five minute walk from where I live, the best I've accomplished is 35 minutes (walking), but office location is critical to many interns - or make them an offer they can't refuse.
I have been mentoring a number of our former staff and keep in touch with them regularly. They are always full of good ideas. I have already e-mailed them about potential candidates. Some have even expressed interest in coming back after they stretch their legs a bit.
However, we are in the hinterland of Chicago and our work, while solid, is not architecture with a capital “A.”
Who WOULDN'T want to work for a firm that focuses on architecture with a capital "A"? Personally that would be a deal breaker for me, and I would guess the same for others in the demographic who visit this site.
If you're not going to make something great, why bother?
I don't know if I could work for someone who require's me to work overtime but spends his time on archinect.
But seriously, start looking for people who are married and have kids. You might not get as much overtime from them but they will be less likely to "explore" other options due to family financial needs. Plus they won't come in hungover on a Wednesday.
dsc, i'm an undergrad student now with one year left and while i'm not sure what i want to do exactly yet, i know that i don't want to work for a corporate office and i do anticipate that out of school my job will last me only a few years. but i wonder if one of the major reasons why students are going to these larger, more corporate environments is as simple as college debt. i know that college has always been expensive and demanding, but i think recent graduates are unique in that the vast majority of them graduate with considerable debt and need to begin paying it off. i think it's very unfortunate that it's become the case that when you are young and should be able to go out on a limb and try new things and not be too concerned about making a lot of money you are bogged down by debt. just a thought, but i hope it works out for you.
why don't you interview and hire interns with at least 1-2 years experience? Be the firm that hires the interns that someone else trained. Why are you consistently hiring interns with NO experience?
We get the interns straight out of school because we live an affluent area where the kids come home from college and live with their parents. We are good training ground for them almost like a half way house.
While that is not entirely true, the main thing is that in our area it is more expensive to live and not on the radar of those who are looking to move up. We have had a lot of interest in people who live in the boonies and are looking to reduce their commute. But that has not always worked out too.
Our practice is a bit unique since we are more like the country doctor / general practitioner than the plastic surgeon / high city life. For me it is a lot of fun. We have a lot of influence in the community and help a lot of people get out of some bad situations.
Eventually, I would like find someone who wants to move up over time and then buy into the practice. All said, we are at a point where we want to grow our next associate principal from within.
dsc_arch...i think it's admirable your willingness to care in the "mentoring" of recent graduates, and your desire to watch them grow within your office...
unfortunately, the profession does reward does that move around, and most often, loyalty is not translated financially. On your exit interviews, was that ever mentioned as a factor?! is your office willing to reward those who stay?
your practice also seems to be quite specific in its work, and young professionals generally seek variety...that might be the source of their departure, through no fault of your own (unless you'd like to aim for a wider range of projects/clients/areas/arch.languages)
and lastly, i think the vicious cycle you mentioned is, again, unfortunately part of the profession...and it can work to your advantage as you need to hire up ///maybe someone with 3-4 years of professional experience...if your work is up to par, you should be able to hire the valuable staff you need...
I respect your frustration. It does take a lot of time (and, therefore money) for you to groom new hires. Perhaps this is totally obvious but - Have you told your current staff exactly what you said in your 08/06/07 9:54 post, esp. the last paragraph? Your team could be under the assumption that since you are a small office that there isn't any room for them to move above a certain level. Also, do you disclose this to potential hires? People will only rise to meet your lowest expectations of them - unfortunately, thats just human nature. But if there's room at the top and they know it - i'm sure you can find some who will step up. This sort of thing could actually re-ignite someone's interest in your office too (esp, former employees or seemingly disinterested current employees). My current roommate just returned to his 'summer employer' after about a 6-year hiatus b/c the guys at the top told him they wanted him to be 'one of them'. He's been back there for about 9 months now and couldn't be happier.
My main reasons for leaving a job (and I've left a number of them) were primarily related to a sense of "ownership" and engagement. By ownership I mean, did I have the ability to influence the direction of the firm and its projects?
I hated the jobs as a young architect where the principals felt I should just appreciate that they let me render or draw some so-so design—particularly when the designs were tacky or clunky, yet they didn't listen when I pointed out just how tacky they were.
Young architects tend to be very connected to what's happening NOW in architecture. Maybe listen to them more, let them try their hand at doing some of the designing, let them move the design toward capital "A" architecture, and you'll find employees who want to stay.
If your employees love their jobs because they feel they're making a contribution to the world, they'll stay. But they won't stay just because you give them continuing education. Or overtime pay. Or variety. They need to be doing things that matter to them.
here is a collage of some of the most saliant aspects of this conversation (from the perspective of an intern with a couple years of experience):
"We are not corporate in any sense of the word, nor can we offer the type of salary the larger firms can offer. Yet we do keep in line with the AIA stay parameters."
commentary: if you find someone good that you want to stick around you must pay them more than the "aia stay parameters." you are making a huge investment in this individual that needs to be reflected in his/her pay. do not make this offer to just anyone, but only individual(s) you know you want to be there longer than a year or two.
"i wonder if one of the major reasons why students are going to these larger, more corporate environments is as simple as college debt."
commentary: yes, yes, and yes. the people graduating from the best schools are also the ones incurring the most debt from their education. i interviewed at a few small boutique firms that i really loved their work. at the end of the day, though, i had to go corporate to pay off loans.
"My main reasons for leaving a job (and I've left a number of them) were primarily related to a sense of "ownership" and engagement. By ownership I mean, did I have the ability to influence the direction of the firm and its projects?"
commentary: most interns have no idea what they mean to the firm. they feel like cad monkeys. if you from the start really encourage an individual, let her know she is appreciated, and the rewards she can expect for her hardwork, that employee is going to be ten times more likely to stay than someone who has no idea where he or she stands in the firm.
hope this helps. it really is something that you are going to have to take a strong stance on and come up with a strategy for hiring. good, faithful employees don't just come along accidently.
dsc, reading between the lines, i have a question - do you think the pay at your practice is comparable to what the kids would get if they were in the city at a say, medium sized office that does similar work?
for huge-loan-bearing grads, many times the $$$ is the deal breaker, even if they are from affluent families
fact: a firm that actually produces buildings, meets payroll pays benefits, invests in training someone who knows jack and pays the standard is not a bad thing. unless you have experience, you are going to cost a firm money because although you may be a fantastic designer and maya/cnc god, you probably can't draw a wall section of a detached garage. the problem with a firm that we're talkin about ain't the work, it's the location.
the burbs are tough in a city like chicago, cuz a. it takes a while to get there if you do the reverse commute, b. it's too expensive to live in lake forest or hinsdale or kenilworth, so if you wanna live close, you're stuck in brookfield or fill in the blank heights.
I see one very positive thing about a firm like this. The partners are young so if your in on the ground floor, help move the firm along in a postive direction then there most likely is a golden spot for you as you get older, so I would say, if your renting...you can find a rental ion all the formentioned places, it will just take a bit longer than other places.
Thank you all for your encouraging words and insightful comments.
Over the past few years we have attempted to bring in all of the ideas no matter how low on the totem pole. The spirit and direction of our website was greatly developed by the interns who is now looking to leave. For the ones that I have wanted to stay it has not been about the money.
My favorite intern, who I still mentor and talked to tonight, it was about trying out new firms. We had gotten him right out of OSU. That was the hardest part. For those who know I am a Trojan, you can understand how hard it is to say good things about a Buckeye, however he was great.
After the training up period of about 18 months, (he had a 4 year degree no experience) he was setting design direction for some of our commercial projects, running small projects and participating greatly in our weekly pin ups.
After three years, he decided to leave for a corporate firm – he took a pay cut going from hourly (ave. 45 hours / week) to salary. After 18 months there he is now at a school firm.
Making about the same, if not a little less than he would be making at DSC. We have talked about him coming back but he and I have agreed that he should stick it out there for at least two more years. Then asses what he wants out of life.
About direction and buy in…
In the past when I have asked staff to help set the direction and nature of the firm I have been met with deer in the headlight looks. Last summer, I wrote in archinect about trying to get buy in. It never worked. Since then we decided to rebuild.
We reduced our staff to three people plus 2 interns,. Note: both inters have (4) year degrees and are looking to go to graduate school in 2008.
Based on the recommendations I have been getting from you, we have instituted: weekly pin ups of the work in progress and let everyone participate in the development of the design. I do let the intern who is most responsible for the SD and DD work have control over what it looks like – the only exception is when it no longer meets program requirements. We take the interns to the job site once per week if not more. We have the person in charge of the project develop the project budget and be responsible for the man hours. Lastly, the person who works on the project goes to all of the client meetings (unless requested otherwise by the client).
I have asked, Design and buy in does not seem to be the problem with our current staff.
I think I have learned my lessons form our past exit interviews and I am ready for the person with to 3-5 years experience who wants to make a comitment to a career at DSC.
DSC- I am intrigued by notion of defining that moment when an intern first becomes profitable. You are doing the right stuff with mentoring and providing experience - I can recall my first few months in an firm when I was clueless about what to do and how to do it. It almost makes me want to never hire somebody with zilch experience to break them in.
So what are your motivations for hiring these kids (beyond their availability in your limited labor market in the northern burbs)? You certainly seem burned out by the constant churn of interns through you door (through no fault of yours or theirs). Did you ever develop a business plan that included a recruitment strategy?
Its encouraging to hear about the continued good relationship you have with your former employees. maybe you won't have to move the office - if you can start reeling them back in after they get their grad degrees and a few years of freedom. That would seem to be your ideal situation. good luck!
Part of my motivation for young kids is that they were easier to train and manage than more experienced professionals. We stated the firm when I was 28. I had never really managed a team and over time we grew into employees. Not many people at that time had either my partner or my computer, photoshop, 3-d presentation, database/marketing and web site skills so we did it all.
We had always had interns but our firm had gotten to a plateau. About three years ago I thought we needed people with more experience and I shelled out big bucks and tons of benefits to attract them.. I was wrong. It was hard to generate $45,000 / month in order to carry all of the staff, technology, and benefits. – Health insurance alone was $4,500 / month. A number of our big projects went on indefinite hold and our residential side tanked with the sub-prime meltdown.
Looking back on it, we should have attracted more junior staff and grown then from within.
The beauty of having your own company is the luxury of making mistakes and learning from it. My mistake was very costly. But I did learn how to manage people older and wiser than me, not become intimidated with it, and listen to many points of view.
4500 a month in health insurance,,,again another reason why i wonder why businesses don't revolt against the current state of healthcare in the usa. i remember interviewing with some guy in chicago who said, "we don't offer health insurance because the employees and owners are all covered by their spouses health insurance." wtf?
Some companies are keeping the age limit to 35 and under to avoid high premiums also. Our firm had an average quote of like $120/person without the older people, who are covered under their spouses. But with them in the pool, it jumped to $235. What a mess.
Our premiums are about $250 for an individual and $850 for a family with a $20 co-pay. BCBS/ PPO
That is before we cut staff. Next year it should possibly go down. We only contribute 75% for heath insurance for an individual policy – read: we give about $180 toward each employees plan. If they want to cover other dependants they pay out of pocket.
This was a change from last year because we could not afford the family coverage and wanted to be fair across the board.
Furthermore, this started a discussion and led to giving our staff a choice when we are looking for coverage and not feel that it is an entitlement.
As for restaurant experience we have a lot. At any given time we have one restaurant and one C-store on the boards. We have a great restaurant (about 8,00 sqft) opening in October out in McHenry as well as one in the DD stages out in Grayslake (about 18,000 sqft).
The end of summer… Now What!
The end of summer… Now What!
It is the end of summer. You might think that there are at least 5 weeks until Labor Day, but for us the end of summer is now. Our summer intern is looking to move on. We had arranged for her to work until September, and now she is looking for another position. I am cool with it. She has worked for us for 3 summers and would like to try another firm before deciding what route to take in her career and help choose what Masters program to enter into. With her departure we are now considering hiring her replacement.
The twist this time is I don’t think I can hire a recent graduate with out any experience.
It has been a brutal cycle over the years: hire, train, get them productive (billable) and then they move on.
Many times they are unsure if they want to say in architecture, not sure where they want to live. Their average age has been 23-25. Over all, for the interns that can cut it, they stay for about two years. By that time they are running small projects, meeting with clients and ticking off their IDP units. They are fully trained and have become wonderful assets to their new firms. The main reason why they leave is it is time to move on and try new things. They are not ready to settle down.
I am a bit burnt out training recent grads.
I need to begin to look for that person who is moving on / up, and ready to settle down and make a career in architecture.
We are a small boutique firm that does light commercial, residential as well as design build projects. We are not corporate in any sense of the word, nor can we offer the type of salary the larger firms can offer. Yet we do keep in line with the AIA stay parameters.
However, we do offer a lot of opportunity for anyone who wishes to reach for it. As long as you are productive you can work up to 10 hours /week at overtime rates. We offer continuing education as well as give you exposure to a myriad of project types. We are a young firm (both principals are under 40).
I feel that we have a great working environment very much a studio. However, we are in the hinterland of Chicago and our work, while solid, is not architecture with a capital “A.”
Lately I feel that the good talent is being scooped up by the larger corporate firms (Gensler, Perkins and Will, SOM) or the starchitects. I am wondering how the boutique firms can compete with the larger corporate firms for the same emergent talent.
How are the boutique firms reaching out to those who are transitioning from the green recent grad into the seasoned intern?
there is hope- eventually all those freshly minted interns want to settle down. The stuff that attracted me (a few years past the freshly minted stage) is working on projects that I'm interested in and responsibility free of corporate bull. Since you seems to offer some of that sort of opportunity, your practice will sell itself by the high quality projects (no strip malls - right?) and offering competitive salaries, help with the ARE fees and a pleasant office environment.
You seem to have a good network of alumni, use them to recruit (and even invite the best of them back). They know people who have matured at other places and are looking for the next challenge.
There is also the question of location, if most of your work arrives because there are no other firms around for miles and miles, it will be hard to attract talent. If your projects find you because of reputation, service and other marketing efforts - then consider relocating into a hipper (and more intern architect friendly) neighborhood that is not in the middle of no-where. Pluses for location includes a few good restaurants and bars within walking distance, connections to transit, and proximity to cultural activities. I have avoided submitting my resume to any firms that are outside the first ring suburbs, unless they are highly distinctive and iconoclastic.
Good luck.
Thank you for your encouragement. I'll try the alumni angle.
Since we live a total of five minutes form the office I don’t really want to have to drive. Bad for the envionment.
As for hip restaurants and bars, we design them. Pretty much one is on the boards at any given time. There have cropped up a number of sole practitioners in our area.
However, all of our work is direct referral.
Its worth trying exit interviews and following up with folks that decline a job offer as to why they choose another opportunity.
I do dream of working a five minute walk from where I live, the best I've accomplished is 35 minutes (walking), but office location is critical to many interns - or make them an offer they can't refuse.
Thanks for the alumni idea. ,
I have been mentoring a number of our former staff and keep in touch with them regularly. They are always full of good ideas. I have already e-mailed them about potential candidates. Some have even expressed interest in coming back after they stretch their legs a bit.
Who WOULDN'T want to work for a firm that focuses on architecture with a capital "A"? Personally that would be a deal breaker for me, and I would guess the same for others in the demographic who visit this site.
If you're not going to make something great, why bother?
I don't know if I could work for someone who require's me to work overtime but spends his time on archinect.
But seriously, start looking for people who are married and have kids. You might not get as much overtime from them but they will be less likely to "explore" other options due to family financial needs. Plus they won't come in hungover on a Wednesday.
dsc, i'm an undergrad student now with one year left and while i'm not sure what i want to do exactly yet, i know that i don't want to work for a corporate office and i do anticipate that out of school my job will last me only a few years. but i wonder if one of the major reasons why students are going to these larger, more corporate environments is as simple as college debt. i know that college has always been expensive and demanding, but i think recent graduates are unique in that the vast majority of them graduate with considerable debt and need to begin paying it off. i think it's very unfortunate that it's become the case that when you are young and should be able to go out on a limb and try new things and not be too concerned about making a lot of money you are bogged down by debt. just a thought, but i hope it works out for you.
why don't you interview and hire interns with at least 1-2 years experience? Be the firm that hires the interns that someone else trained. Why are you consistently hiring interns with NO experience?
We get the interns straight out of school because we live an affluent area where the kids come home from college and live with their parents. We are good training ground for them almost like a half way house.
While that is not entirely true, the main thing is that in our area it is more expensive to live and not on the radar of those who are looking to move up. We have had a lot of interest in people who live in the boonies and are looking to reduce their commute. But that has not always worked out too.
Our practice is a bit unique since we are more like the country doctor / general practitioner than the plastic surgeon / high city life. For me it is a lot of fun. We have a lot of influence in the community and help a lot of people get out of some bad situations.
Eventually, I would like find someone who wants to move up over time and then buy into the practice. All said, we are at a point where we want to grow our next associate principal from within.
dsc_arch...i think it's admirable your willingness to care in the "mentoring" of recent graduates, and your desire to watch them grow within your office...
unfortunately, the profession does reward does that move around, and most often, loyalty is not translated financially. On your exit interviews, was that ever mentioned as a factor?! is your office willing to reward those who stay?
your practice also seems to be quite specific in its work, and young professionals generally seek variety...that might be the source of their departure, through no fault of your own (unless you'd like to aim for a wider range of projects/clients/areas/arch.languages)
and lastly, i think the vicious cycle you mentioned is, again, unfortunately part of the profession...and it can work to your advantage as you need to hire up ///maybe someone with 3-4 years of professional experience...if your work is up to par, you should be able to hire the valuable staff you need...
just food for thought!
dsc_
I respect your frustration. It does take a lot of time (and, therefore money) for you to groom new hires. Perhaps this is totally obvious but - Have you told your current staff exactly what you said in your 08/06/07 9:54 post, esp. the last paragraph? Your team could be under the assumption that since you are a small office that there isn't any room for them to move above a certain level. Also, do you disclose this to potential hires? People will only rise to meet your lowest expectations of them - unfortunately, thats just human nature. But if there's room at the top and they know it - i'm sure you can find some who will step up. This sort of thing could actually re-ignite someone's interest in your office too (esp, former employees or seemingly disinterested current employees). My current roommate just returned to his 'summer employer' after about a 6-year hiatus b/c the guys at the top told him they wanted him to be 'one of them'. He's been back there for about 9 months now and couldn't be happier.
dsc_,
My main reasons for leaving a job (and I've left a number of them) were primarily related to a sense of "ownership" and engagement. By ownership I mean, did I have the ability to influence the direction of the firm and its projects?
I hated the jobs as a young architect where the principals felt I should just appreciate that they let me render or draw some so-so design—particularly when the designs were tacky or clunky, yet they didn't listen when I pointed out just how tacky they were.
Young architects tend to be very connected to what's happening NOW in architecture. Maybe listen to them more, let them try their hand at doing some of the designing, let them move the design toward capital "A" architecture, and you'll find employees who want to stay.
If your employees love their jobs because they feel they're making a contribution to the world, they'll stay. But they won't stay just because you give them continuing education. Or overtime pay. Or variety. They need to be doing things that matter to them.
Ask them what they want. What's their ideal firm?
Another thought: why would I care about partnership in a firm whose work I hadn't been allowed to shape and influence? Or whose work isn't very good?
No architect two years out of school is going to wait ten years to find out whether they can make a firm into something they like.
Listen to your young employees. That's the best way to keep them around.
wait summer is over? Hell no we got another month left if not a couple weeks (6) more.
here is a collage of some of the most saliant aspects of this conversation (from the perspective of an intern with a couple years of experience):
"We are not corporate in any sense of the word, nor can we offer the type of salary the larger firms can offer. Yet we do keep in line with the AIA stay parameters."
commentary: if you find someone good that you want to stick around you must pay them more than the "aia stay parameters." you are making a huge investment in this individual that needs to be reflected in his/her pay. do not make this offer to just anyone, but only individual(s) you know you want to be there longer than a year or two.
"i wonder if one of the major reasons why students are going to these larger, more corporate environments is as simple as college debt."
commentary: yes, yes, and yes. the people graduating from the best schools are also the ones incurring the most debt from their education. i interviewed at a few small boutique firms that i really loved their work. at the end of the day, though, i had to go corporate to pay off loans.
"My main reasons for leaving a job (and I've left a number of them) were primarily related to a sense of "ownership" and engagement. By ownership I mean, did I have the ability to influence the direction of the firm and its projects?"
commentary: most interns have no idea what they mean to the firm. they feel like cad monkeys. if you from the start really encourage an individual, let her know she is appreciated, and the rewards she can expect for her hardwork, that employee is going to be ten times more likely to stay than someone who has no idea where he or she stands in the firm.
hope this helps. it really is something that you are going to have to take a strong stance on and come up with a strategy for hiring. good, faithful employees don't just come along accidently.
dsc, reading between the lines, i have a question - do you think the pay at your practice is comparable to what the kids would get if they were in the city at a say, medium sized office that does similar work?
for huge-loan-bearing grads, many times the $$$ is the deal breaker, even if they are from affluent families
fact: a firm that actually produces buildings, meets payroll pays benefits, invests in training someone who knows jack and pays the standard is not a bad thing. unless you have experience, you are going to cost a firm money because although you may be a fantastic designer and maya/cnc god, you probably can't draw a wall section of a detached garage. the problem with a firm that we're talkin about ain't the work, it's the location.
the burbs are tough in a city like chicago, cuz a. it takes a while to get there if you do the reverse commute, b. it's too expensive to live in lake forest or hinsdale or kenilworth, so if you wanna live close, you're stuck in brookfield or fill in the blank heights.
I see one very positive thing about a firm like this. The partners are young so if your in on the ground floor, help move the firm along in a postive direction then there most likely is a golden spot for you as you get older, so I would say, if your renting...you can find a rental ion all the formentioned places, it will just take a bit longer than other places.
Thank you all for your encouraging words and insightful comments.
Over the past few years we have attempted to bring in all of the ideas no matter how low on the totem pole. The spirit and direction of our website was greatly developed by the interns who is now looking to leave. For the ones that I have wanted to stay it has not been about the money.
My favorite intern, who I still mentor and talked to tonight, it was about trying out new firms. We had gotten him right out of OSU. That was the hardest part. For those who know I am a Trojan, you can understand how hard it is to say good things about a Buckeye, however he was great.
After the training up period of about 18 months, (he had a 4 year degree no experience) he was setting design direction for some of our commercial projects, running small projects and participating greatly in our weekly pin ups.
After three years, he decided to leave for a corporate firm – he took a pay cut going from hourly (ave. 45 hours / week) to salary. After 18 months there he is now at a school firm.
Making about the same, if not a little less than he would be making at DSC. We have talked about him coming back but he and I have agreed that he should stick it out there for at least two more years. Then asses what he wants out of life.
About direction and buy in…
In the past when I have asked staff to help set the direction and nature of the firm I have been met with deer in the headlight looks. Last summer, I wrote in archinect about trying to get buy in. It never worked. Since then we decided to rebuild.
We reduced our staff to three people plus 2 interns,. Note: both inters have (4) year degrees and are looking to go to graduate school in 2008.
Based on the recommendations I have been getting from you, we have instituted: weekly pin ups of the work in progress and let everyone participate in the development of the design. I do let the intern who is most responsible for the SD and DD work have control over what it looks like – the only exception is when it no longer meets program requirements. We take the interns to the job site once per week if not more. We have the person in charge of the project develop the project budget and be responsible for the man hours. Lastly, the person who works on the project goes to all of the client meetings (unless requested otherwise by the client).
I have asked, Design and buy in does not seem to be the problem with our current staff.
I think I have learned my lessons form our past exit interviews and I am ready for the person with to 3-5 years experience who wants to make a comitment to a career at DSC.
DSC- I am intrigued by notion of defining that moment when an intern first becomes profitable. You are doing the right stuff with mentoring and providing experience - I can recall my first few months in an firm when I was clueless about what to do and how to do it. It almost makes me want to never hire somebody with zilch experience to break them in.
So what are your motivations for hiring these kids (beyond their availability in your limited labor market in the northern burbs)? You certainly seem burned out by the constant churn of interns through you door (through no fault of yours or theirs). Did you ever develop a business plan that included a recruitment strategy?
Its encouraging to hear about the continued good relationship you have with your former employees. maybe you won't have to move the office - if you can start reeling them back in after they get their grad degrees and a few years of freedom. That would seem to be your ideal situation. good luck!
Part of my motivation for young kids is that they were easier to train and manage than more experienced professionals. We stated the firm when I was 28. I had never really managed a team and over time we grew into employees. Not many people at that time had either my partner or my computer, photoshop, 3-d presentation, database/marketing and web site skills so we did it all.
We had always had interns but our firm had gotten to a plateau. About three years ago I thought we needed people with more experience and I shelled out big bucks and tons of benefits to attract them.. I was wrong. It was hard to generate $45,000 / month in order to carry all of the staff, technology, and benefits. – Health insurance alone was $4,500 / month. A number of our big projects went on indefinite hold and our residential side tanked with the sub-prime meltdown.
Looking back on it, we should have attracted more junior staff and grown then from within.
The beauty of having your own company is the luxury of making mistakes and learning from it. My mistake was very costly. But I did learn how to manage people older and wiser than me, not become intimidated with it, and listen to many points of view.
Most importantly I learned when cut my losses.
4500 a month in health insurance,,,again another reason why i wonder why businesses don't revolt against the current state of healthcare in the usa. i remember interviewing with some guy in chicago who said, "we don't offer health insurance because the employees and owners are all covered by their spouses health insurance." wtf?
Some companies are keeping the age limit to 35 and under to avoid high premiums also. Our firm had an average quote of like $120/person without the older people, who are covered under their spouses. But with them in the pool, it jumped to $235. What a mess.
DSC - How old are you?
Do you have restaraunt experiance?
I turned 38 in March. My partner is 37.
Our premiums are about $250 for an individual and $850 for a family with a $20 co-pay. BCBS/ PPO
That is before we cut staff. Next year it should possibly go down. We only contribute 75% for heath insurance for an individual policy – read: we give about $180 toward each employees plan. If they want to cover other dependants they pay out of pocket.
This was a change from last year because we could not afford the family coverage and wanted to be fair across the board.
Furthermore, this started a discussion and led to giving our staff a choice when we are looking for coverage and not feel that it is an entitlement.
As for restaurant experience we have a lot. At any given time we have one restaurant and one C-store on the boards. We have a great restaurant (about 8,00 sqft) opening in October out in McHenry as well as one in the DD stages out in Grayslake (about 18,000 sqft).
hah ... $4,500 in health premiums is nothing ... what 'til you're covering $17,000 each and every month.
No thanks.
We downsized in order to be more selective and have a lot less stress!
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