My parents own a piece of property in North Snobbsdale and are now ready to build their steel construction McMansion dream house. I know what you are all thinking by now… and I don’t want to swing the conversation in that direction. The parcel is surrounded by other multimillion dollar McMansions and they don’t want anything “exotic” in the neighborhood and I understand where they are coming from, one hundred percent. So my loving parents want me, as a son, to design this home which I will also be living in. So before they hand this project to a contractor to design and destroy I want to take my time and work with them to build this home for them. As a son it’s the least I can do for them. Plus the knowledge and ability to build a home, something that I have never done, would be a benefit for me. Now my main question from all this is that the builder who is a friend of the family constructs steel frame residential buildings. I’ve seen construction photos and this is real size structural I-beams with moment frame connections. These homes are about 3-4k sq. ft homes, liveable. I asked if he thinks it’s a little overkill… he agrees, but money for money it is the same price as stick frame construction. He emphasized the advantages of having wider members allowing for a higher R-value, straight walls, strength, fireproof, etc etc. This all sounds great and all but we do live in a desert afterall and wonder if there is a thermal bridge from the outside to the inside with this structural steel construction.
So what I have to do is draw these plans that then get thrown our friend's engineers. They size and construct all the I-beams and etc. Then this company ships the sized steel on site where it gets built. Besides all the bashing and nonsense posts on my situation lol… my question finally is: What are the benefits and disadvantages of residential steel vs wood construction.
Answering just your last question:
advantages:
in a moist climate won't rot or have (as many) termite problems
possibility (with skilled contractors) of more accurate construction
longer spans and bigger windows
easier to run utilities through knockouts
possibility of some prefabrication: saves you time
disadvantages:
in a cold climate make sure you have exterior foam sheathing or bridging takes out a lot of the insulation
inexperienced contractors = headaches in framing
for a custom home, probably will be more expensive (given that with moment frame construction you'll probably use the advantages for more glazing etc)
the firm i work for only uses residential steel framing and personally i like it, although it can cause some special problems. we work mostly in the desert, which is a good climate for steel framing.
I had the possibility of designing a renovation of my in laws' house and decided against it. I'm not mixing family and business. No sir.
can you supply some photos of comparable homes in the neighborhood and the typical work your builder does? i can't envision at all what you're doing. i somehow imagine a steel-framed adobe mcmansion with a lot of glass.
Bregnier is spot on. I would suggest meeting with the contractor and reviewing drawings of some of his past projects. Learn from him how he builds and why. I honestly don't know how you are going to be able to design this project without being able to answer your question on your own.
Thank you for that! Do you live in the Southwest region of the States? My biggest concern is the disadvantages in a hot climate such as Arizona. There is a lot of steel in the construction and I just see these giant pieces of steel as thermal bridges getting into the house. Do you think foam sheathing would be enough to protect the thermal bridge from happening during the summer?
jafidler-
A typical home in north Scottsdale is equivalent to this:
There are no restrictions on what type of “style” you can build, etc. etc. but I would like to respect the context for the neighboring snobs. I went to the city and they said I can build up to 30', however there is not a two-story residence in sight. So in respect to the neighbors, who don’t want us to build a two story, we are going to do single story, and instead of going up where its hotter, we are planning on going into the ground making a nice size basement with an open light well. As far as glazing, the property is north and south facing and we are going to have windows mostly facing those directions. Nothing huge by any means but moderate in size so really we are not taking full advantage from the steel construction. My mom is a neat freak and cleans her windows about once a year, so Im trying to make this house as easy maintence as possible. Yes I know a 4k+ sq. ft. home needs a lot of maintence, so trying to make it easy on her (and I’ve told her 100x on how she will be cleaning the house 2x as much as she is now)... I don’t think she knows what she is getting into.
I don’t have any images of my builders work to show you, but Ive seen then them and they are pretty much boxes with holes in the walls (windows). That scares me because I’ve not seen one home that resembles a typical “Scottsdale” home. He says building them would not be a problem and that response scares me.
wurdan freo-
I’ve meet with him in person and he discussed all the positives, etc. etc. I’ve seen his plans and all that and we discussed how he works. Basically he is just the maestro of the steel construction then he sub-contracts out most of the other work. A person can go on and on with all the positives on steel construction, however there is always the other side of the story and that is why I’m on here. I should have stated it a little clearer in my post but what I am really looking for is the disadvantages in a desert climate, in particular with the thermal bridging. Personally I rather stick with stick build, that’s just me. I have no personal experience in residential steel construction… however I would like to learn in the process. I’ve done research on it but have not really found anything that was a deciding factor.
from the image you posted i see no reason for steel frame construction and have trouble believing that steel frame would be cheaper than stick (albiet i have little knowledge of the construction industry in the southwest). it seems to me you choose a system that is appropriate to the design. i think it would be a good idea to get several bids and not just stick with the builder your parents have in mind. also getting "a friend of the family" to do anything in construction industry sounds like a risky proposition when there is a lot of money on the table.
Are you really talking steel frame or steel studs with open web steel joists and the occasional laminated wood beam?
My sister's McMansion (not Snobbsdale, but that's where I grew up and she's close by) was built from steel studs after that desert arsonist wack-job burned down their wood-framed house. I think they actually were able to get better R-values due to thicker walls in the steel rebuild. But I really have a hard time believing that steel moment frame is less expensive and significantly better? Especially with a one-story adobe-ish house similar to what you posted above. It's the big spans and overhangs and glass that makes sense for steel.
My advice would be to do Schematic Design, get your parents' approval, then get a rough cost estimate from both your steel buddy and a traditional stick builder, in either steel or wood studs.
If your parents really, really just want to work with this guy who is their friend, then of course just go that way. I agree that this is a fantastic learning opportunity for you, with a "client" who will cut you some slack as you figure it all out!!
Sorry, but there is no way that a steel frame with moment connections is less expensive than stick built for a conventional house like this. Like liberty bell, I thought that you must have meant lightweight steel studs in lieu of 2x's, but then the "moment connection" phrase does not make sense.
Further, the steel frame is significantly more difficult to coordinate from a design point of view, so it would be in your best interest as someone that might be a little less experienced to work with conventional stick built construction.
Finally, take it from me, working with/for family is a mistake.
Jul 25, 07 2:19 pm ·
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Residental Steel Construction McMansion
Howdy,
My parents own a piece of property in North Snobbsdale and are now ready to build their steel construction McMansion dream house. I know what you are all thinking by now… and I don’t want to swing the conversation in that direction. The parcel is surrounded by other multimillion dollar McMansions and they don’t want anything “exotic” in the neighborhood and I understand where they are coming from, one hundred percent. So my loving parents want me, as a son, to design this home which I will also be living in. So before they hand this project to a contractor to design and destroy I want to take my time and work with them to build this home for them. As a son it’s the least I can do for them. Plus the knowledge and ability to build a home, something that I have never done, would be a benefit for me. Now my main question from all this is that the builder who is a friend of the family constructs steel frame residential buildings. I’ve seen construction photos and this is real size structural I-beams with moment frame connections. These homes are about 3-4k sq. ft homes, liveable. I asked if he thinks it’s a little overkill… he agrees, but money for money it is the same price as stick frame construction. He emphasized the advantages of having wider members allowing for a higher R-value, straight walls, strength, fireproof, etc etc. This all sounds great and all but we do live in a desert afterall and wonder if there is a thermal bridge from the outside to the inside with this structural steel construction.
So what I have to do is draw these plans that then get thrown our friend's engineers. They size and construct all the I-beams and etc. Then this company ships the sized steel on site where it gets built. Besides all the bashing and nonsense posts on my situation lol… my question finally is: What are the benefits and disadvantages of residential steel vs wood construction.
Howdy How from your neighbor Cowboy!
Answering just your last question:
advantages:
in a moist climate won't rot or have (as many) termite problems
possibility (with skilled contractors) of more accurate construction
longer spans and bigger windows
easier to run utilities through knockouts
possibility of some prefabrication: saves you time
disadvantages:
in a cold climate make sure you have exterior foam sheathing or bridging takes out a lot of the insulation
inexperienced contractors = headaches in framing
for a custom home, probably will be more expensive (given that with moment frame construction you'll probably use the advantages for more glazing etc)
the firm i work for only uses residential steel framing and personally i like it, although it can cause some special problems. we work mostly in the desert, which is a good climate for steel framing.
I had the possibility of designing a renovation of my in laws' house and decided against it. I'm not mixing family and business. No sir.
can you supply some photos of comparable homes in the neighborhood and the typical work your builder does? i can't envision at all what you're doing. i somehow imagine a steel-framed adobe mcmansion with a lot of glass.
Bregnier is spot on. I would suggest meeting with the contractor and reviewing drawings of some of his past projects. Learn from him how he builds and why. I honestly don't know how you are going to be able to design this project without being able to answer your question on your own.
bregnier-
Thank you for that! Do you live in the Southwest region of the States? My biggest concern is the disadvantages in a hot climate such as Arizona. There is a lot of steel in the construction and I just see these giant pieces of steel as thermal bridges getting into the house. Do you think foam sheathing would be enough to protect the thermal bridge from happening during the summer?
jafidler-
A typical home in north Scottsdale is equivalent to this:
There are no restrictions on what type of “style” you can build, etc. etc. but I would like to respect the context for the neighboring snobs. I went to the city and they said I can build up to 30', however there is not a two-story residence in sight. So in respect to the neighbors, who don’t want us to build a two story, we are going to do single story, and instead of going up where its hotter, we are planning on going into the ground making a nice size basement with an open light well. As far as glazing, the property is north and south facing and we are going to have windows mostly facing those directions. Nothing huge by any means but moderate in size so really we are not taking full advantage from the steel construction. My mom is a neat freak and cleans her windows about once a year, so Im trying to make this house as easy maintence as possible. Yes I know a 4k+ sq. ft. home needs a lot of maintence, so trying to make it easy on her (and I’ve told her 100x on how she will be cleaning the house 2x as much as she is now)... I don’t think she knows what she is getting into.
I don’t have any images of my builders work to show you, but Ive seen then them and they are pretty much boxes with holes in the walls (windows). That scares me because I’ve not seen one home that resembles a typical “Scottsdale” home. He says building them would not be a problem and that response scares me.
wurdan freo-
I’ve meet with him in person and he discussed all the positives, etc. etc. I’ve seen his plans and all that and we discussed how he works. Basically he is just the maestro of the steel construction then he sub-contracts out most of the other work. A person can go on and on with all the positives on steel construction, however there is always the other side of the story and that is why I’m on here. I should have stated it a little clearer in my post but what I am really looking for is the disadvantages in a desert climate, in particular with the thermal bridging. Personally I rather stick with stick build, that’s just me. I have no personal experience in residential steel construction… however I would like to learn in the process. I’ve done research on it but have not really found anything that was a deciding factor.
pardon the mispelled title, just noticed that :p
shocked no one has given me a hard time for that lol
from the image you posted i see no reason for steel frame construction and have trouble believing that steel frame would be cheaper than stick (albiet i have little knowledge of the construction industry in the southwest). it seems to me you choose a system that is appropriate to the design. i think it would be a good idea to get several bids and not just stick with the builder your parents have in mind. also getting "a friend of the family" to do anything in construction industry sounds like a risky proposition when there is a lot of money on the table.
Are you really talking steel frame or steel studs with open web steel joists and the occasional laminated wood beam?
My sister's McMansion (not Snobbsdale, but that's where I grew up and she's close by) was built from steel studs after that desert arsonist wack-job burned down their wood-framed house. I think they actually were able to get better R-values due to thicker walls in the steel rebuild. But I really have a hard time believing that steel moment frame is less expensive and significantly better? Especially with a one-story adobe-ish house similar to what you posted above. It's the big spans and overhangs and glass that makes sense for steel.
My advice would be to do Schematic Design, get your parents' approval, then get a rough cost estimate from both your steel buddy and a traditional stick builder, in either steel or wood studs.
If your parents really, really just want to work with this guy who is their friend, then of course just go that way. I agree that this is a fantastic learning opportunity for you, with a "client" who will cut you some slack as you figure it all out!!
Sorry, but there is no way that a steel frame with moment connections is less expensive than stick built for a conventional house like this. Like liberty bell, I thought that you must have meant lightweight steel studs in lieu of 2x's, but then the "moment connection" phrase does not make sense.
Further, the steel frame is significantly more difficult to coordinate from a design point of view, so it would be in your best interest as someone that might be a little less experienced to work with conventional stick built construction.
Finally, take it from me, working with/for family is a mistake.
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