vado, your concept of "starchnality" is interesting, but it's difficult when you see the rise of someone like david adjaye who doesn't seem to behave like an starchitect and whose designs don't seem to be overly brash just to be controversial...
it's cool
it's interesting
it's big
it's shiny
it's ugly
it's big and shiny and ugly
i like it its shiny and big
it looks like (insert kitchen appliance/ sex toy analogy here)
hey mr. can you take our picture in front of the big shiny building???
@ Oe,
It would be nice to see some really collaborative work done using the "new" tools and avenues of discourse,
So, get to it...Or talk to Quillian
I am unfortunately not an architect so cannot myself.
Also, for everyone,
of course projects are developed around the idea of a staritecture both in condo projects, as is happening in NY.
Or for mega musuem projects,
Remember the 21st centetury is all about urban regeneration, the knowledge or culture ecnomy and art.
"The choice of MVRDV — architect of a celebrated housing project with flats for the elderly less than a few kilometres from the present scheme... demonstrates the client’s intention and ambition: this is not just a building, it is a statement.
MVRDV’s track record in the Netherlands, Germany and Shanghai is mentioned explicitly in the brochure for potential tenants. Cooperation with an interior designer known from lifestyle magazines provides further evidence that this is an attempt to cash in on the media success of Dutch architecture and design in the last decade and a half.
The brochure also quotes Aaron Betsky, a former director of the Netherlands Architecture Institute and the author of False Flat: Why Dutch Design is So Good, who endorses the building as one that “clearly will put Dutch design on the map” and “will attract many architectural tourists."
This of course brings up ethical moral issues, as Orhan points out with his comments. These developments whether in London, Williamsburg or Dubai generally bring up issues of gentrification, sustainability, housing, and inequality..What an architect to do...
Drop out of the system...!
Of course then it will still just go on.
"the 'average person' is not the average client for a major architectural project. most corporations, museums, libraries, etc are looking for starpower these days."
Really? Most? Or most that eventually hire people like Gehry and Holl? I mean alot of shit gets built. Arent you inducing a bit of bias in your sample? Its like youre polling Hillary supporters for who will vote for Hillary.
I mean we all know its rubbish. We all know how much press coverage someone gets doesnt necessarily reflect the real value of their work. But I would argue even the people building these things dont really care either. I dont think we should the mistake rhetoric and advertising for peoples real opinions. My question is, aside from an architects past work, aside from the glossiness of the presentation and the flamboyant designs, how much does that phrase "world-renouned architect" really count for? In how many net cases is that really the deciding factor?
oe...i am not sure if we should qualify "world-renowned architect" and place aside past work...
but i think when it comes to any type of project that would benefit directly from public exposure, the trend for starchitecture is becoming increasingly a deciding factor...
Lets be honest though, if a project wasnt designed by someone with some name-recognition you wouldnt be including it in your sample. I mean there are thousands of competitions everyday that pick up some up-start. If we limit our sample only to invitational competitions of course were going to see a starchitect bent. What else do they have to go on?
"...i am not sure if we should qualify "world-renowned architect" and place aside past work..."
Why not? Just imagine Stephen Holl walks into a boardroom with a big stack of his buildings, presents his design and no one knows who he is. He walks out and everyone votes on the design. Now someone stands up and says "hes a famous architect!" and they take a vote again. How many hands does that change? A couple maybe? Is this really a some new doom for architecture?
It just seems like no one is more guilty than us of buying into the hype. If we dont care then we dont care. Theres plenty of room at the bottom for people to do good work.
vado, even if it's a dumb understanding of architecture, it is still an appreciation or at least an awareness of design. it's rare these days that our built environment can stimulate awareness.
in general, i think we're painting this picture with a fairly broad brush, basically assuming that clients are lamely saying, "i want a gehry" or "i want a meier." on the contrary, most clients are quite savvy about the architect they are selecting. the client that chose meier for the high-end condos in chelsea chose him because he knew he could market that name to architecturally-conversant wealthy home buyers. could he have done the same with gehry? a museum that selects holl, let's say chiasma, knows that holl will provide a design of a significant quality that will potentially complement the art displayed. moreover, let's be honest, the starchitect 99 percent of the time is flat-out a better designer than joe blow architect. it is more than a name these clients are buying, but clearly the name doesn't hurt either.
thats why i ask the question about becoming a starchitect. because i wonder if you grabbed twenty bright people and picked their brains that you would come up with some evocative ideas. most firms don't have the time/desire to do the competitions because they are structured differently. but if twenty people are sitting around brainstorming etc with their design guru something good might happen. sort of like the idea of if you put enough monkeys in front of typewriters. one of em will write a masterpiece.
just to bring this thread back to life, and to add a tangent re. architectural critics, my response:
12 years after graduating architectural school, and just now completing his first built work, a backyard clubhouse for his kids...is that all the architectural professional experience it takes to be a published arch. critic?
Anti-Starchitecture Chic
vado, your concept of "starchnality" is interesting, but it's difficult when you see the rise of someone like david adjaye who doesn't seem to behave like an starchitect and whose designs don't seem to be overly brash just to be controversial...
the public talks about architecture thusly:
it's cool
it's interesting
it's big
it's shiny
it's ugly
it's big and shiny and ugly
i like it its shiny and big
it looks like (insert kitchen appliance/ sex toy analogy here)
hey mr. can you take our picture in front of the big shiny building???
@ Oe,
It would be nice to see some really collaborative work done using the "new" tools and avenues of discourse,
So, get to it...Or talk to Quillian
I am unfortunately not an architect so cannot myself.
Also, for everyone,
of course projects are developed around the idea of a staritecture both in condo projects, as is happening in NY.
Or for mega musuem projects,
Remember the 21st centetury is all about urban regeneration, the knowledge or culture ecnomy and art.
For example see recent post
http://archinect.com/news/article.php?id=60258_0_24_0_C
"The choice of MVRDV — architect of a celebrated housing project with flats for the elderly less than a few kilometres from the present scheme... demonstrates the client’s intention and ambition: this is not just a building, it is a statement.
MVRDV’s track record in the Netherlands, Germany and Shanghai is mentioned explicitly in the brochure for potential tenants. Cooperation with an interior designer known from lifestyle magazines provides further evidence that this is an attempt to cash in on the media success of Dutch architecture and design in the last decade and a half.
The brochure also quotes Aaron Betsky, a former director of the Netherlands Architecture Institute and the author of False Flat: Why Dutch Design is So Good, who endorses the building as one that “clearly will put Dutch design on the map” and “will attract many architectural tourists."
This of course brings up ethical moral issues, as Orhan points out with his comments. These developments whether in London, Williamsburg or Dubai generally bring up issues of gentrification, sustainability, housing, and inequality..What an architect to do...
Drop out of the system...!
Of course then it will still just go on.
@ Vado,
Not just the public us-me too.
"the 'average person' is not the average client for a major architectural project. most corporations, museums, libraries, etc are looking for starpower these days."
Really? Most? Or most that eventually hire people like Gehry and Holl? I mean alot of shit gets built. Arent you inducing a bit of bias in your sample? Its like youre polling Hillary supporters for who will vote for Hillary.
I mean we all know its rubbish. We all know how much press coverage someone gets doesnt necessarily reflect the real value of their work. But I would argue even the people building these things dont really care either. I dont think we should the mistake rhetoric and advertising for peoples real opinions. My question is, aside from an architects past work, aside from the glossiness of the presentation and the flamboyant designs, how much does that phrase "world-renouned architect" really count for? In how many net cases is that really the deciding factor?
oe...i am not sure if we should qualify "world-renowned architect" and place aside past work...
but i think when it comes to any type of project that would benefit directly from public exposure, the trend for starchitecture is becoming increasingly a deciding factor...
Lets be honest though, if a project wasnt designed by someone with some name-recognition you wouldnt be including it in your sample. I mean there are thousands of competitions everyday that pick up some up-start. If we limit our sample only to invitational competitions of course were going to see a starchitect bent. What else do they have to go on?
"...i am not sure if we should qualify "world-renowned architect" and place aside past work..."
Why not? Just imagine Stephen Holl walks into a boardroom with a big stack of his buildings, presents his design and no one knows who he is. He walks out and everyone votes on the design. Now someone stands up and says "hes a famous architect!" and they take a vote again. How many hands does that change? A couple maybe? Is this really a some new doom for architecture?
It just seems like no one is more guilty than us of buying into the hype. If we dont care then we dont care. Theres plenty of room at the bottom for people to do good work.
vado, even if it's a dumb understanding of architecture, it is still an appreciation or at least an awareness of design. it's rare these days that our built environment can stimulate awareness.
in general, i think we're painting this picture with a fairly broad brush, basically assuming that clients are lamely saying, "i want a gehry" or "i want a meier." on the contrary, most clients are quite savvy about the architect they are selecting. the client that chose meier for the high-end condos in chelsea chose him because he knew he could market that name to architecturally-conversant wealthy home buyers. could he have done the same with gehry? a museum that selects holl, let's say chiasma, knows that holl will provide a design of a significant quality that will potentially complement the art displayed. moreover, let's be honest, the starchitect 99 percent of the time is flat-out a better designer than joe blow architect. it is more than a name these clients are buying, but clearly the name doesn't hurt either.
thats why i ask the question about becoming a starchitect. because i wonder if you grabbed twenty bright people and picked their brains that you would come up with some evocative ideas. most firms don't have the time/desire to do the competitions because they are structured differently. but if twenty people are sitting around brainstorming etc with their design guru something good might happen. sort of like the idea of if you put enough monkeys in front of typewriters. one of em will write a masterpiece.
ha ha ha thats a great analogy :)
oe..."Is this really a some new doom for architecture?" no! it's an opportunity.
and yes, I agree...there is plenty of room here in the bottom for people to go good work...
but starchitects do exist, and they do get projects that desire public exposure because they are starchitects...
from the archinect news section:
http://archinect.com/news/article.php?id=64249_0_24_0_C
just to bring this thread back to life, and to add a tangent re. architectural critics, my response:
12 years after graduating architectural school, and just now completing his first built work, a backyard clubhouse for his kids...is that all the architectural professional experience it takes to be a published arch. critic?
man my first built structure was a doghouse. no wonder i'm not part of the zeitgeist no more...
my first built project was a cat liter box. built it out of 2x4s all by my lonesome.
i milled the dog's chewtoys on a cnc machine.
vado, you were destined for greatness.
dont tell me. tell others.
vado was destined for greatness.
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