Yah, like I mentioned to Rationalist earlier today, I'm relatively familiar with the pros and cons of independent contracting. In my current situation, it seems to be working well.
Thank you for starting this thread. Tough subject, but info like this needs to be shared and we're all semi-anonymous.
Large city in the south
Graduated BARCH in '05
2.5 years experience
The firm I was with at the time moved me up from hourly to $25K and the new job search began, at annual review bumped to $28K, and still looking.
Received other offers and was bumped to $32k to retain my services. I still ended up leaving for $38k, I really loved that job, but I had a lot of responsibilities, including an ill parent.
Currently at $39,500 after first annual review, and a $500 annual bonus for half of last year. Hoping that will increase this year
meta- actually the trick they used on me was "Hey we'll pay you $13/hr!", and then once I said "ok", quit my previous job, and actually physically got into the office they went, "oh, by the way, all of our employees are independent contractors." For perspective, this was around 2003, so it's not like that was a ridiculously good wage, it was just ok if you were a regular employee, and absolute crap as an independent contractor.
I hope other places don't do this. I wrote that firm a scathing review on InsideArch (that was subsequently taken down, but then re-posted after a conversation with the guy who runs the place).
1999 First Job in Berkeley, CA for 28k then bumped to 32k after 6 months. Got a full paycheck for bonus each year. No paid overtime. Worked an additional 2-3 months of overtime per year. Mostly CAD monkey status. Standard Benefits. StarArchitect.
2002 Second Job in S.F. was 42k. No Bonus. Promoted to Associate. Had Comp Time but it was a joke. Had no time to use it and had to use it up every three months. Standard Benefits. Small Planning Office. Mostly Project Management and Meeting facilitation/graphics.
2004 Third Job in L.A. was 54k. 600 buck bonus. No paid overtime. No Promotion. Standard Benefits. StarArchitect. Role was Construction Administration/Observation and Quality Control/Assurance.
2005 Forth Job in L.A. was 58k. No bonus. No Paid overtime. No promotion. Standard Benefits. Piss poor environment and quality of life was low. Corporate Office. Role in the office was mostly Project Management, Construction Administration/Observation, and Quality Control/Assurance.
2006 Fifth Job in L.A. is 72k. No bonus. Promoted to Senior Associate. Registered LA. Great Benefits and quality of life remains high. Role is Construction Administration/Observation and Quality Control/Assurance with some design here and there.
1997 NYC. Large firm. First job salaried at 30k, no bonus. Since it was salary, no extra for overtime. So... No Overtime worked!
1998-2003 Same Nyc firm. Salary 36k-50k. Eventually made Associate and Senior Designer. Bonus when made Associate.
1 yr off. Move to Southern California and hang out with my kid.
2004-06 SoCal. Medium corp. firm. Project Manager. 60k-70k. Managed commercial and development projects, did CA etc. Yearly bonus about 10%.
1yr off. Move to SF Bay Area.
Just started at small-medium Bay area firm. Project Manager 75k.
AP Leed Certified, allmost done with ARE (thank god for Cali not requiring IDP).
I think in my 8 yrs or so of actual work experience, I maybe worked 3-4 times on a weekend. Even when I was Senior Designer in NYC I managed to keep a reasonable work week without much more than 4-5 hours (1 a day) overtime.
Strawbeary, I think you've got about the same experience/background as me.
BArch 2001
Started $31k in the upper mid-west.
(Floated resumes up & down east cost big cities excluding NYC, got offers in several, highest was $35k...not enough to make cost of living worth it....i.e. Boston)
Got raises around 3% year after year. Got the whole "9/11 slowdown can only afford 3%" line, but was having fun. Got tons of experience. Filled out my IDP. Did extended on-site CA work in Pennsylvania & Chicagoland. Eventually got fed up with the crappy raises and being viewed as "the intern."
New job, jumped to $46k.
First raise 10%
Second raise 10%
Looking at making management level within a couple years. Pretty much been promised another 10% next year. Plus excellent benefits heath, 401k, profit sharing, bonuses, etc. Then the passing ARE bonus/raise which is upon me soon.
Mind you this is at a very corporate firm, but once you hit the right firm and you've got your stride down it'll come quick. It does take the right personality and motivation. I don't slack at my work and know how to use people skills with the principals and clients.
You're in Denver, right? Which I would guess is at a very similar pay scale/cost of living to where I'm at. I'd say you aren't being grossly underpaid, but worth a few $$$ more to the right firm.
Just for comparisons sake, I have college friends that went into Chicago and have equal experience making far less than me in a higher cost of living area. The whole "fly-over country doesn't pay" mantra just isn't true.
Ya - I know some people who work in Iowa and make a lot more because its hard to attract people there even though its stable and growing. Plus the cost of living is so low - beers are $2.50. Plus - corn fed girls. Hawkahawkahawkeye
the forbidden thread
Dec 2002 got my BS
moved to los angeles
mid 2003-2005: first job $38,000 ended right around $40,000 (mid-size)
2005-2006: second job, started $45,000 ended $48,000 (mid-size)
2006-2007: third job $53,000 (fairly corporate)
if you add christmas bonuses, it was higher.
started my MArch in fall of 2007
Yah, like I mentioned to Rationalist earlier today, I'm relatively familiar with the pros and cons of independent contracting. In my current situation, it seems to be working well.
Plus, who needs dental?!?!
j/k-
who needs teeth!
Thank you for starting this thread. Tough subject, but info like this needs to be shared and we're all semi-anonymous.
Large city in the south
Graduated BARCH in '05
2.5 years experience
The firm I was with at the time moved me up from hourly to $25K and the new job search began, at annual review bumped to $28K, and still looking.
Received other offers and was bumped to $32k to retain my services. I still ended up leaving for $38k, I really loved that job, but I had a lot of responsibilities, including an ill parent.
Currently at $39,500 after first annual review, and a $500 annual bonus for half of last year. Hoping that will increase this year
meta- actually the trick they used on me was "Hey we'll pay you $13/hr!", and then once I said "ok", quit my previous job, and actually physically got into the office they went, "oh, by the way, all of our employees are independent contractors." For perspective, this was around 2003, so it's not like that was a ridiculously good wage, it was just ok if you were a regular employee, and absolute crap as an independent contractor.
I hope other places don't do this. I wrote that firm a scathing review on InsideArch (that was subsequently taken down, but then re-posted after a conversation with the guy who runs the place).
Graduated in 1999 with a BSLA.
1999 First Job in Berkeley, CA for 28k then bumped to 32k after 6 months. Got a full paycheck for bonus each year. No paid overtime. Worked an additional 2-3 months of overtime per year. Mostly CAD monkey status. Standard Benefits. StarArchitect.
2002 Second Job in S.F. was 42k. No Bonus. Promoted to Associate. Had Comp Time but it was a joke. Had no time to use it and had to use it up every three months. Standard Benefits. Small Planning Office. Mostly Project Management and Meeting facilitation/graphics.
2004 Third Job in L.A. was 54k. 600 buck bonus. No paid overtime. No Promotion. Standard Benefits. StarArchitect. Role was Construction Administration/Observation and Quality Control/Assurance.
2005 Forth Job in L.A. was 58k. No bonus. No Paid overtime. No promotion. Standard Benefits. Piss poor environment and quality of life was low. Corporate Office. Role in the office was mostly Project Management, Construction Administration/Observation, and Quality Control/Assurance.
2006 Fifth Job in L.A. is 72k. No bonus. Promoted to Senior Associate. Registered LA. Great Benefits and quality of life remains high. Role is Construction Administration/Observation and Quality Control/Assurance with some design here and there.
first job graduated with my Barch last may.....
NYC medium sized office starting @42k good benefits 1 bonus a year, decent work and get a raise every December now im at 45k
i know some friends who have recently graduated from one of the big shiny March programs in new York are starting at 55k right out
Ok, here we go..
BS Arch 96.
1 yr off after moving to NYC
1997 NYC. Large firm. First job salaried at 30k, no bonus. Since it was salary, no extra for overtime. So... No Overtime worked!
1998-2003 Same Nyc firm. Salary 36k-50k. Eventually made Associate and Senior Designer. Bonus when made Associate.
1 yr off. Move to Southern California and hang out with my kid.
2004-06 SoCal. Medium corp. firm. Project Manager. 60k-70k. Managed commercial and development projects, did CA etc. Yearly bonus about 10%.
1yr off. Move to SF Bay Area.
Just started at small-medium Bay area firm. Project Manager 75k.
AP Leed Certified, allmost done with ARE (thank god for Cali not requiring IDP).
I think in my 8 yrs or so of actual work experience, I maybe worked 3-4 times on a weekend. Even when I was Senior Designer in NYC I managed to keep a reasonable work week without much more than 4-5 hours (1 a day) overtime.
Strawbeary, I think you've got about the same experience/background as me.
BArch 2001
Started $31k in the upper mid-west.
(Floated resumes up & down east cost big cities excluding NYC, got offers in several, highest was $35k...not enough to make cost of living worth it....i.e. Boston)
Got raises around 3% year after year. Got the whole "9/11 slowdown can only afford 3%" line, but was having fun. Got tons of experience. Filled out my IDP. Did extended on-site CA work in Pennsylvania & Chicagoland. Eventually got fed up with the crappy raises and being viewed as "the intern."
New job, jumped to $46k.
First raise 10%
Second raise 10%
Looking at making management level within a couple years. Pretty much been promised another 10% next year. Plus excellent benefits heath, 401k, profit sharing, bonuses, etc. Then the passing ARE bonus/raise which is upon me soon.
Mind you this is at a very corporate firm, but once you hit the right firm and you've got your stride down it'll come quick. It does take the right personality and motivation. I don't slack at my work and know how to use people skills with the principals and clients.
You're in Denver, right? Which I would guess is at a very similar pay scale/cost of living to where I'm at. I'd say you aren't being grossly underpaid, but worth a few $$$ more to the right firm.
Just for comparisons sake, I have college friends that went into Chicago and have equal experience making far less than me in a higher cost of living area. The whole "fly-over country doesn't pay" mantra just isn't true.
Ya - I know some people who work in Iowa and make a lot more because its hard to attract people there even though its stable and growing. Plus the cost of living is so low - beers are $2.50. Plus - corn fed girls. Hawkahawkahawkeye
i make um....36k+ bartending 30-35 hours a week but i hate it most nights . me build pretty someday
this is all very terrifying. Thank you for sharing.
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