Did you hear the part when they asked about the planes flying around with "The Evan Almighty" banner?
It was nice to hear someone admit to their hypocrisy instead of completely dodging the question (similar to our political officials). I applaud their efforts to be carbon neutral.
cookie- I come in at 2.69 tons, which is relatively close to the 2.15(I think, didn't write it down) that's recommended, considering the average is above 4 tons. But then I don't know how accurate it is for those outside of the UK though.
n_ -yes, and I was going to comment on it, but I thought it might fall of deaf ears. I am glad someone else was listening.
I actually appreciated exactly what you stated. He sort of said- yes, it was dumb, and we'll plant more trees. If only politicians would be so forthright. The idea is not to be perfect- the idea is to improve and I thought it was a noble effort.
Btw, I realized I misspelled carbon in my initial post….oops
whattodo - i totally agree. it'd be really refreshing for some of these politicians out there to just start saying what they really mean vs. what's going to get more votes. the more they avoid really putting out there what they plan or believe in, the more i feel people tend to distrust.
wk - interesting article. i listened to something on npr a while back. this guy had done a test to see what chemicals were found in his body and it was amazing. we pick up so much through our lifetime.
and - i went to a meeting last night called "green drinks" - and it was really really interesting. down here in orlando, we don't have a lot of resources to find good healthy non-pesticide/non gen. mod. food.
it was great because not only was there a woman there to speak about the slow food movement and what we could do in orlando to promote local/sustainable food, but there were people participating in the green/suistanible/local movement from all different fields. it was very very interesting and enlightening - they have them all over the us (and world). but i would highly recommend seeing if there's one in your area! i really felt energized after going.
laurilan- I'd seen adverts for GreenDrinks Seattle, and was planning to go to one once I got there (as well as Critical Mass and a million other things, so we'll see if I actually have time!)! They sound really cool.
Got to go research and see exactly *what* the Senate decided to pass, and how much they watered it down first...
OK, found a good summary of the green energy bill by NPR.
As I suspected, Republicans blocked what I considered to be the single most important part of the bill: taxes on oil that would fund alternative energy development. Not only would this have funded alternative fuels, it would have mad the price of gas prohibitively expensive for more people, driving them to forsake commuting alone in their cars for other options like carpooling, public transit, biking, and walking.
Well on the one hand, they did a good job because they ignored the car companies complaints and raised the milage requirement to 35 mpg, for which the target is 10 years I believe.....however, if I understand it correctly, they wimped out and added a provision that said that the rules could be rescinded if they were found to be unachievable. Honestly, if congresspeople worked in the real world, wouldn't they be fired for doing everything half-assed?
the electric company was seeking to upgrade services to the customers, by purchasing an additional generator we were able to get the British Govt to insist that alternatives need to be researched. The research found that 3no wind turbines would of satisfied the electricity needs and anticipate the reducing balance on the existing system, for a fraction of the cost. However it was determined to be new and therefore inconsistent and unreliable technology - so i new generator was purchased as originally planned.
laurilan - there's a great green drinks sustainability mixer here in berkeley that i go to somewhat regularly (err, uhh, somewhat infrequently) that's pretty cool.
that's where i met the Socially Responsible Investment specialist that i've been working with.
a pretty cool meme if you ask me.
about the energy bill - i'm also less than enthused about the easy-out for the car companies when they claim that 35mpg just isn't feasible in this economic climate. definite asshats!
what is an asshat anyway?
what i'm really interested in seeing the development of is this years Farm Bill.
Techno- where my dad lives, the utility company has such a monopoly that it is actually ILLEGAL for residents to power their homes off-grid via renewable sources. This is particularly dumb when you consider than Bonaire's climate is 100% PERFECT for both wind and solar power.
I don't know what a tonne is either- that's why I kept the anglo-ism. Compared to the other carbon calculator that were posted to earlier pages of this thread- London's DirectGov's calculator is more sophisticated and has a better people friendly interface. it also captures more nuances of daily life. Too bad it is only optimized for the Northern Atlantic maritime fogs of London.
I really like that it allows you to calculate personal or household footprints, and then goes on to allow for multiples of appliances, asks if you've made realistic conservation efforts like insulating an attic versus double paned windows, breaks down travel into so many different scenarios. Well done!
rationalist oddly enough they have a similar policy here, and it requires you have a license to generate your own electricity. It took 5 years for them to even allow solar water heaters...its an archaic system set in place to allow power companys to remain...well profitable.
tk- I agree on the whole. I wish it were even a little bit more thorough though. For instance, it asks you how frequently you use your AC in your car, but not how frequently you use the heater and/or AC in your home. So for instance my tonnage goes up because I have an older electric heater, but they aren't taking into account that I only use it for approximately 3 hours/day, about 45 days out of the year.
The latest episode of the Sundance Channel's Big Ideas for a Small Planet, entitled "Paper or Plastic?", deals with the issues of green design that we discuss every day on this thread. The notorious Mr. William McDonough finally shows up to proselytize about his Cradle to Cradle certification system, which actually looks quite good. Also covered in this episode is biodegradable corn-based plastic, and a Ford Motor Company prototype car called "Model U", which uses a hydrogen fuel cell engine and all corn- and soy-based products in its body and interior. Pretty interesting! Check it out.
Almost forgot.....MBDC helped the US Postal Service develop cradle-to-cradle packaging. So if you need a reason to use the USPS, all of their packaging is biodegradable and the inks and adhesives on the packaging are safe as well.
A company that produces environmentally friendly plant fertilizer, aka Worm Poop, is being sued by Scotts for some sort of image infringement that it accuses. But it's totally bogus. I just found this web site:
I personally think it's great that THD is trying to bring sustainability to a mass market. And the article highlights the fact that they are trying to combat greenwashing, and how prevalent it is. Do you think that "the big orange" has turned a new leaf? Now that CEO Nardelli is gone (he was awful, in pretty much everyone's opinion), is this corporation less bad?
They still don't recycle, but then again most of them don't. That's my next campaign.
"Do you think that "the big orange" has turned a new leaf? Now that CEO Nardelli is gone (he was awful, in pretty much everyone's opinion), is this corporation less bad? "
I don't think they've turned over a new leaf, but I do think they're "less bad". This to me is about equivilant to Walmart offering organic veggies: it doesn't necessarily mean anything other than that they've realized there's a market for it. I'm glad they're making it clear to consumers what options are greener, but I'm not ready to call the Home Depot a "green company" because of it - rather, they're a company that offers green options. I think the next step for them (if they really wanted to be a green company) would be to not only green their own operations by recycling and building effecient stores, but to assign every product they carry a grade based on how sustainable it is, and stop carrying anything that gets the lowest grade.
rolls on... This kind of news befuddles me. If Salt Lake County can adopt green building standards on their projects why on earth won't Santa Rosa, CA, where we continually pride ourselves on how environmentally conscious we are.
Salt lake is kind of odd, in all reality, eg. a fairly conservative region that consistently votes for tax increases for light rail. I guess I shouldn't let good news get me down. But if someone said, where do you think the local government is more progressive toward green building and made you choose between Salt Lake County and Sonoma County, 9 outta 10 people would say Sonoma, right!
I need to go right some letters.
j
Salt Lake City is kind of an anomaly though.....it's unpredictable there. Remember that their mayor is the one leading the charge for W's impeachment. He's a pretty cool guy.
Anyway, good for them!
Also, if there are any GTC regulars who don't get out much, be sure to check out this discussion on the slow home movement, which is very thoughtful and includes input from the founder of the site. Good stuff.
Ps. I didn't mean to drop the Home Depot discussion as soon as I started it, but I guess rationalist summed up the problem for now.....there is a long way to go for many corporations for them to achieve true sustainability....
PPS. Speaking of companies, I am still worried about those Worm Poop guys.
has anyone gotten involved in your local EGB (emerging green builders) group? there was one just started up here in central fla. and i was thinking about going to one of the meetings.
i wanted to know if it seemed like all talk or if there was some good information and events going on?
any information or experience would be great to hear!
Have you guys seen the Walmart "green" ads? Sorry if this has been discussed, but Rationalists comment reminded me how it's a perfect example of how "green" is now a big business marketing tool. Great-if it's actually green...
but the ad says something like "if all 180 million Walmart customers bought a pair of organic cotton pajama bottoms, it would stop 100 million lbs of pesticides from going into the earth"...
it's such a distorted figure. are people going to buy these instead of something else...something all 180 million people would have bought?
I'd rather my organic cotton come from American Apparel, which not only has some organic cotton products, but I KNOW doesn't use sweatshop labor and treats their workers decently, because I've actually been to their warehouse. Better quality, too.
But yeah, there's a lot of fallacious arguements about how green things are... like, if we all switched to energy star appliances, we could save X% on energy bills and decrease power demand by so many megawatt hours.... but our landfills would be overflowing! It's definitely hard to sort through the inflationary crap that people put in there to advertise and get to the real meat of the claims.
So what do you do with old appliances, that maybe don't work? We just replaced our dishwasher, and are thinking of a new fridge. What do we do with the old stuff? Can you just take it to a recycle place, or do you take it a special appliance place? They're from 1981, so they aren't good for resale.
This is a great question, Sarah. I have a list of recycling centers for my area, but most of them only accept raw materials. A couple of them will accept appliances if they have this raw material, but right now I have a broken microwave and I have NO IDEA what to do with it. There is a computer/CPU recycling program in my city as well, but that doesn't help for refridgerators! My suggestion would be to do some google searches for "recycling" or "building reuse resources" for your zip code.
another option is putting it on craigslist under the free stuff. someone might take it... you never know. i see broken stuff listed under there all of the time. i assume there are people who are a lot more handy than me that could easily fix it or use it for parts.
I found that scrap metal yards will take appliances, but the fridge must be drained of freon, and the compressor removed. So now I just have to figure out what to do with that. Wait, isn't freon a gas?
I just did a little poking around on Wikipedia and I came across this paragraph under refrigerants:
"As of July 1, 1992 it is illegal to release Freon or other refrigerants into the atmosphere because they can cause severe damage to the ozone layer. When CFCs are removed they should be recycled to clean out any contaminants and return it to a usable condition. Refrigerants should never be mixed together. Some CFCs must be managed as hazardous waste, even if recycled and special precautions are required for their transport."
Sarah- most municipalities have a bulky item curb side pick up service that will take fridges- they just have to be 'cold' to prove that they work. So call the local sanitation department and find out what the procedure is.
also many cities now have an 'e-waste' collection point or day that they will recycle tvs, computers, microwaves, and any other 'electronic' trash. you may have to visit the local dump or transfer station to drop stuff off...
Yeah, our Bulky item pick-up isn't recycled. Even though I work in Dallas, the town I live in is still small. I called the waste company, and they told me it would cost me 20 bucks to haul it the dump, but they couldn't recycle. So I'm taking to a scrap metal yard where they will pay me! 1.5 cents per pound; anyone want to make guesses as to how much I'll make?
ok, I found a "refrigerant reclamation" place. Its kinda far, but its the only one I've found. So I think I'm good. With all this hassle, its no wonder that people don't recycle. We are a lazy culture, and if its not handed to us, we seldom will work for it. They've got to make this easier if they want to get anywhere. I mean, its illegal to release freon into the air, but what is poor Joe Shmoe going to do when he needs to get rid of something, and can't find a "refrigerent reclamation" center. Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to get it there. Do I take the whole fridge, can i put it into a bottle? Is it in liquid or gas form? If its gas, I figure somes going to be released into the air no matter what precautions I take.
Green Thread Central
UK launches CO2 calculator:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Environmentandgreenerliving/actonco2/DG_067197
but it is currently too popular for me to use. I'll try back later.
The Evan Almighty director, Tom Shadyac, is boasting that the production was carbin neutral. Just heard a pretty interesting interview on npr...
"we" get 2000 more trees.
Did you hear the part when they asked about the planes flying around with "The Evan Almighty" banner?
It was nice to hear someone admit to their hypocrisy instead of completely dodging the question (similar to our political officials). I applaud their efforts to be carbon neutral.
cookie- I come in at 2.69 tons, which is relatively close to the 2.15(I think, didn't write it down) that's recommended, considering the average is above 4 tons. But then I don't know how accurate it is for those outside of the UK though.
n_ -yes, and I was going to comment on it, but I thought it might fall of deaf ears. I am glad someone else was listening.
I actually appreciated exactly what you stated. He sort of said- yes, it was dumb, and we'll plant more trees. If only politicians would be so forthright. The idea is not to be perfect- the idea is to improve and I thought it was a noble effort.
Btw, I realized I misspelled carbon in my initial post….oops
although not green building related, this is very important and I figured you all would appreciate the information. have a nice night! ;o)
whattodo - i totally agree. it'd be really refreshing for some of these politicians out there to just start saying what they really mean vs. what's going to get more votes. the more they avoid really putting out there what they plan or believe in, the more i feel people tend to distrust.
wk - interesting article. i listened to something on npr a while back. this guy had done a test to see what chemicals were found in his body and it was amazing. we pick up so much through our lifetime.
here's the npr story if anyone's interested:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6100179
and - i went to a meeting last night called "green drinks" - and it was really really interesting. down here in orlando, we don't have a lot of resources to find good healthy non-pesticide/non gen. mod. food.
it was great because not only was there a woman there to speak about the slow food movement and what we could do in orlando to promote local/sustainable food, but there were people participating in the green/suistanible/local movement from all different fields. it was very very interesting and enlightening - they have them all over the us (and world). but i would highly recommend seeing if there's one in your area! i really felt energized after going.
www.greendrinks.org
An energy bill just cleared the Senate! Great news.
laurilan- I'd seen adverts for GreenDrinks Seattle, and was planning to go to one once I got there (as well as Critical Mass and a million other things, so we'll see if I actually have time!)! They sound really cool.
Got to go research and see exactly *what* the Senate decided to pass, and how much they watered it down first...
OK, found a good summary of the green energy bill by NPR.
As I suspected, Republicans blocked what I considered to be the single most important part of the bill: taxes on oil that would fund alternative energy development. Not only would this have funded alternative fuels, it would have mad the price of gas prohibitively expensive for more people, driving them to forsake commuting alone in their cars for other options like carpooling, public transit, biking, and walking.
Well on the one hand, they did a good job because they ignored the car companies complaints and raised the milage requirement to 35 mpg, for which the target is 10 years I believe.....however, if I understand it correctly, they wimped out and added a provision that said that the rules could be rescinded if they were found to be unachievable. Honestly, if congresspeople worked in the real world, wouldn't they be fired for doing everything half-assed?
Oh yeah, and that taxes thing. Total asshats.
we have a similar problem here
the electric company was seeking to upgrade services to the customers, by purchasing an additional generator we were able to get the British Govt to insist that alternatives need to be researched. The research found that 3no wind turbines would of satisfied the electricity needs and anticipate the reducing balance on the existing system, for a fraction of the cost. However it was determined to be new and therefore inconsistent and unreliable technology - so i new generator was purchased as originally planned.
laurilan - there's a great green drinks sustainability mixer here in berkeley that i go to somewhat regularly (err, uhh, somewhat infrequently) that's pretty cool.
that's where i met the Socially Responsible Investment specialist that i've been working with.
a pretty cool meme if you ask me.
about the energy bill - i'm also less than enthused about the easy-out for the car companies when they claim that 35mpg just isn't feasible in this economic climate. definite asshats!
what is an asshat anyway?
what i'm really interested in seeing the development of is this years Farm Bill.
Techno- where my dad lives, the utility company has such a monopoly that it is actually ILLEGAL for residents to power their homes off-grid via renewable sources. This is particularly dumb when you consider than Bonaire's climate is 100% PERFECT for both wind and solar power.
our minneapolis house (if I lived in N17) would emit 7.88 tonnes CO2/year
our appliances emit 1.28 tonnes/year
our travel 9.04 tonnes/year
for a whopping total of 18.21 tonnes/year
gotta cut down on our jet setting around the world...
what the 'eck are tonnes anyways!?!
i mean, i'm down with quids and queen's pints and all, but tonnes??
c'mon, this is california afterall.
(or wherever you live, that is...)
I don't know what a tonne is either- that's why I kept the anglo-ism. Compared to the other carbon calculator that were posted to earlier pages of this thread- London's DirectGov's calculator is more sophisticated and has a better people friendly interface. it also captures more nuances of daily life. Too bad it is only optimized for the Northern Atlantic maritime fogs of London.
I really like that it allows you to calculate personal or household footprints, and then goes on to allow for multiples of appliances, asks if you've made realistic conservation efforts like insulating an attic versus double paned windows, breaks down travel into so many different scenarios. Well done!
1 ton = 2000 lbs = 0.8929 long ton = 0.9072 tonnes = 8896 Newtons
"Tonnes" are part of the metric system.
dammit dubK, why do you have to go and be all smartypants like that.
you expose me and my schoolyard attempts at xenophobic humour. i thought tonnes were anglo for tons. silly me.
Sorry, I enjoy conversion calculators and have links to several.
Also, heretoforth I will be referring to any units of weight in newtons, because it sounds cooler.
For instance, I've lost almost 88 newtons so far this year! Wicked great!
rationalist oddly enough they have a similar policy here, and it requires you have a license to generate your own electricity. It took 5 years for them to even allow solar water heaters...its an archaic system set in place to allow power companys to remain...well profitable.
damn i gained 66.725 newtons which is why i am not posting to the burrito thread.
i grew up in Newton MA
tk- I agree on the whole. I wish it were even a little bit more thorough though. For instance, it asks you how frequently you use your AC in your car, but not how frequently you use the heater and/or AC in your home. So for instance my tonnage goes up because I have an older electric heater, but they aren't taking into account that I only use it for approximately 3 hours/day, about 45 days out of the year.
The latest episode of the Sundance Channel's Big Ideas for a Small Planet, entitled "Paper or Plastic?", deals with the issues of green design that we discuss every day on this thread. The notorious Mr. William McDonough finally shows up to proselytize about his Cradle to Cradle certification system, which actually looks quite good. Also covered in this episode is biodegradable corn-based plastic, and a Ford Motor Company prototype car called "Model U", which uses a hydrogen fuel cell engine and all corn- and soy-based products in its body and interior. Pretty interesting! Check it out.
Almost forgot.....MBDC helped the US Postal Service develop cradle-to-cradle packaging. So if you need a reason to use the USPS, all of their packaging is biodegradable and the inks and adhesives on the packaging are safe as well.
And then there is this.....
A company that produces environmentally friendly plant fertilizer, aka Worm Poop, is being sued by Scotts for some sort of image infringement that it accuses. But it's totally bogus. I just found this web site:
http://www.suedbyscotts.com/
Ok, so this just makes me angry. How do we help this wee little company out?
I would like to talk about this news item that I just posted and The Home Depot.
http://archinect.com/news/article.php?id=60018_0_24_0_C
I personally think it's great that THD is trying to bring sustainability to a mass market. And the article highlights the fact that they are trying to combat greenwashing, and how prevalent it is. Do you think that "the big orange" has turned a new leaf? Now that CEO Nardelli is gone (he was awful, in pretty much everyone's opinion), is this corporation less bad?
They still don't recycle, but then again most of them don't. That's my next campaign.
mushrrom insulation
I don't think they've turned over a new leaf, but I do think they're "less bad". This to me is about equivilant to Walmart offering organic veggies: it doesn't necessarily mean anything other than that they've realized there's a market for it. I'm glad they're making it clear to consumers what options are greener, but I'm not ready to call the Home Depot a "green company" because of it - rather, they're a company that offers green options. I think the next step for them (if they really wanted to be a green company) would be to not only green their own operations by recycling and building effecient stores, but to assign every product they carry a grade based on how sustainable it is, and stop carrying anything that gets the lowest grade.
rolls on... This kind of news befuddles me. If Salt Lake County can adopt green building standards on their projects why on earth won't Santa Rosa, CA, where we continually pride ourselves on how environmentally conscious we are.
Salt lake is kind of odd, in all reality, eg. a fairly conservative region that consistently votes for tax increases for light rail. I guess I shouldn't let good news get me down. But if someone said, where do you think the local government is more progressive toward green building and made you choose between Salt Lake County and Sonoma County, 9 outta 10 people would say Sonoma, right!
I need to go right some letters.
j
Salt Lake City is kind of an anomaly though.....it's unpredictable there. Remember that their mayor is the one leading the charge for W's impeachment. He's a pretty cool guy.
Anyway, good for them!
Also, if there are any GTC regulars who don't get out much, be sure to check out this discussion on the slow home movement, which is very thoughtful and includes input from the founder of the site. Good stuff.
Ps. I didn't mean to drop the Home Depot discussion as soon as I started it, but I guess rationalist summed up the problem for now.....there is a long way to go for many corporations for them to achieve true sustainability....
PPS. Speaking of companies, I am still worried about those Worm Poop guys.
Is there such a thing as an organic (conventional style) mattress in the $500 and under price range?
(I mean, aside from an organic tatami mat or the floor or something :P )
There definitely are, I've noticed them at Soaring Heart in Seattle. The trick is finding a New Haven organic cotton mattress.
has anyone gotten involved in your local EGB (emerging green builders) group? there was one just started up here in central fla. and i was thinking about going to one of the meetings.
i wanted to know if it seemed like all talk or if there was some good information and events going on?
any information or experience would be great to hear!
Have you guys seen the Walmart "green" ads? Sorry if this has been discussed, but Rationalists comment reminded me how it's a perfect example of how "green" is now a big business marketing tool. Great-if it's actually green...
but the ad says something like "if all 180 million Walmart customers bought a pair of organic cotton pajama bottoms, it would stop 100 million lbs of pesticides from going into the earth"...
it's such a distorted figure. are people going to buy these instead of something else...something all 180 million people would have bought?
we are vulnerable consumers.
http://www.walmart.com/green
thoughts?
I'd rather my organic cotton come from American Apparel, which not only has some organic cotton products, but I KNOW doesn't use sweatshop labor and treats their workers decently, because I've actually been to their warehouse. Better quality, too.
But yeah, there's a lot of fallacious arguements about how green things are... like, if we all switched to energy star appliances, we could save X% on energy bills and decrease power demand by so many megawatt hours.... but our landfills would be overflowing! It's definitely hard to sort through the inflationary crap that people put in there to advertise and get to the real meat of the claims.
So what do you do with old appliances, that maybe don't work? We just replaced our dishwasher, and are thinking of a new fridge. What do we do with the old stuff? Can you just take it to a recycle place, or do you take it a special appliance place? They're from 1981, so they aren't good for resale.
This is a great question, Sarah. I have a list of recycling centers for my area, but most of them only accept raw materials. A couple of them will accept appliances if they have this raw material, but right now I have a broken microwave and I have NO IDEA what to do with it. There is a computer/CPU recycling program in my city as well, but that doesn't help for refridgerators! My suggestion would be to do some google searches for "recycling" or "building reuse resources" for your zip code.
I have been. There should be a national recycling website, with links to individual regions. Why can't it be that simple.
another option is putting it on craigslist under the free stuff. someone might take it... you never know. i see broken stuff listed under there all of the time. i assume there are people who are a lot more handy than me that could easily fix it or use it for parts.
, hopefully there's one in your region. They're a bit sparse.
Update*
I found that scrap metal yards will take appliances, but the fridge must be drained of freon, and the compressor removed. So now I just have to figure out what to do with that. Wait, isn't freon a gas?
I just did a little poking around on Wikipedia and I came across this paragraph under refrigerants:
"As of July 1, 1992 it is illegal to release Freon or other refrigerants into the atmosphere because they can cause severe damage to the ozone layer. When CFCs are removed they should be recycled to clean out any contaminants and return it to a usable condition. Refrigerants should never be mixed together. Some CFCs must be managed as hazardous waste, even if recycled and special precautions are required for their transport."
Seriously, why is this so difficult?!?
Sarah- most municipalities have a bulky item curb side pick up service that will take fridges- they just have to be 'cold' to prove that they work. So call the local sanitation department and find out what the procedure is.
also many cities now have an 'e-waste' collection point or day that they will recycle tvs, computers, microwaves, and any other 'electronic' trash. you may have to visit the local dump or transfer station to drop stuff off...
Yeah, our Bulky item pick-up isn't recycled. Even though I work in Dallas, the town I live in is still small. I called the waste company, and they told me it would cost me 20 bucks to haul it the dump, but they couldn't recycle. So I'm taking to a scrap metal yard where they will pay me! 1.5 cents per pound; anyone want to make guesses as to how much I'll make?
sarah...in LA, if you posted under "free" stuff on craigslist, put it on the curb, it would be gone within 30 min.
not sure where you live, but its worth a shot.
Sarah, I found this article that might be able to point you to a place: Recycling in the Dallas News
ok, I found a "refrigerant reclamation" place. Its kinda far, but its the only one I've found. So I think I'm good. With all this hassle, its no wonder that people don't recycle. We are a lazy culture, and if its not handed to us, we seldom will work for it. They've got to make this easier if they want to get anywhere. I mean, its illegal to release freon into the air, but what is poor Joe Shmoe going to do when he needs to get rid of something, and can't find a "refrigerent reclamation" center. Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to get it there. Do I take the whole fridge, can i put it into a bottle? Is it in liquid or gas form? If its gas, I figure somes going to be released into the air no matter what precautions I take.
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