lb..i rewrote it..but the first response was well worded and
more concise..the newer version is a lot more sarcastic..
but maybe reflects my mood better anyway.
I'm sure they do enjoy our "passionate community" but when that community dissolves because we all have to find another way to make a living they'll probably miss us.
Thank you. I sent them an email to the same effect, asking them (among other things), "What happens when your readers ask the designers that won to furnish their condos or homes for a total budget of $75,000 and no design fee?"
The idea that they are helping the winners is just so short-sighted. Yes, they will get more clients because they've been published in Dwell. But what will the expectations of those clients be when they know that those designers will work for free?
yes, OA, I was going to add to rationalists reply to that woman's form letter on the comp forum, but for some odd reason after I took time to carefully develop my thoughts in writing, and hit the submit key, it all but disappeared....
But yes....i wish that instead of some form letter she would have take the time to really sit down and tell us what they might be thinking of doing to alleviate this situation.
being published in anywhere does not automatically get you any clients. i was published in new york times and only call i got was from a long lost friend in ann arbor. it was a spring home edition of nyt magazine too.
That comment page on Bustler is getting pretty good, isn't it? I like Karl-Erik Larson's comment: ps. i look forward to your competition for 'emerging heart and brain surgeons.'
This whole thing is quite interesting....it seems like they caught us at a perfect time, like we were itching to have an outside entity to express our dissatisfaction with the way designers are compensated, and our responses are that much more emphatic because it might actually impact a developer.
dwell ain't the problem. the design community is the problem. for example, the current issue of architect which has a cover story about intern incomes. several times in the article it is stated by someone that they aren't in it for the money etc. frankly, the profession needs to take back much of what they've given away. starting with me i am billing my client for this comment.
I made the Front Cover of Architectural Digest, and all I have ever recieved was calls from people I would rather not take on as clients or interior decorators wanting to know where we obtained the beautiful fabric in my clients bedroom. Oh ya they did send me a hard bound copy of the magazine. I was however dissapointed when I learned they actually run different covers for different parts of the country. We were the East Coast Cover. I'm sure glad I had a paying client.
The idea of publicity as ample compensation is clearly an absurd assumption on Dwell's part. Their magazine exists because of designers, designers do not exist because of Dwell. I'm really enjoying the uprising against this nonsense, as well as the great bit of forshadowing on an older thread about the "Slow Commercialized Decent of Dwell".
Wondering if Dwell Sends out hard bound copies to the designers who make it on their cover. Most likely they send you one of those notices, which says you can purchase copies of the article, as long as you purchase them in lots of one-hundred.
a) dwell's an ok mag - they wouldnt post a b.s. competition, right? [wrong]
b) i didnt fully read what the competition was or what was the prize because - they put affordable buiding stds out in front - why would they not reward the winners? [wrong- apparently they wont]
c) nor did i realize it was basically interior decoration competition. i wanted to knock EVERYTHING interior down and redesign the ENTIRE thing. [wrong - just frolicking with textiles]
i want to know if theyre going to rescind the competition. or at least put out a kickass issue based on 'necters.
or at least put out a kickass issue based on 'necters.
That's an excellent idea kyll! I actually just finished a project I was ready to submit to them - but since I've publicly scolded them in more than one place now I feel like I can't.
This is [url=http://whatdoiknow.org/archives/003042.shtml[/url] a funny story about being published in Dwell, anyway.
Any AIA San Francisco members out there? Your website is featuring this competition. Perhaps a letter from a member asking them if free design is an idea they want to promote?
interesting story. (warning: leading to tangential subject)
well, i've been to Morimoto Restaurant in chelsea, nyc (actually had dinner there too - exxxxxpensive as $hit) and although some of the ideas were interesting, unique and racy, the detailing wasn't that great. regular plywood painted to look like red-doug fir, floorlights poorly placed and the openings for them just rough-cut and sloppily done, metal(?) reveals that werent securely fastened. that water bottle wall? well if you touch it, the entire thing moves - cascading not water, but dust caught in the bottle voids above the 'lounge' area taking away the idea of it actually being a static waterfall figure, but a dust distributor. the 3form cast resin counter at the bar has some hardware that i removed WITH MY HANDS in front of the bartender. Overall, nice looking place but reveals, detailing, and edges - poorly executed. Yet - it "blessed" the cover of arch record (int. issue 06).
Interesting tangent.... in my publication design class, there were a lot of times when you get a photo that you're like "THIS is the cover/feature/vingnette/! It's gorgeous. As long as we make sure that this bit at the corner gets cropped out...." When you're designing a spread, you just understand that there are imperfections in almost every product, every building, every photo, and it's just a part of your job to make sure they don't make it into the final print. Because magazine design is somebody's whole job, and that somebody may or may not care what sort of architectural statement they're making, and are in fact trained to make every photo and spread look as absolutely gorgeous as possible, you can pretty much bet that in every money shot, there is a chip in the countertop, some badly stained grout, missing weatherstripping, or other faux pas lurking juuuuust out of frame.
I know - believe me, I've been the guilty one on occasion when it comes to placing the fire extinguisher/wayfinding signage/electrical panel on the side of the hallway that I know won't show in the photograph. I just thought it was a funny and timely article.
my thing is - why not mention it in the article? why not state something like - "the architects took great care in this portion of the bldg, but not in the area(s) where things will eventually be replaced and/or finished at a later and more feasible time" almost giving a disclaimer for any imperfections found - but still a respectable project.
My Bustler complaint slash Letter to the Editor of Dwell:
Dwell,
Your support for The Infinity Design Challenge and its exploitation of emergent design professionals genuinely undermines the very 'intelligent, thoughtful, and modern' vision that architects and designers work ardently to fortify. On behalf of your target audience, constituents of real life design, we urge you to rescind this contest and reevaluate the true philosophy of your magazine.
Sincerely,
Disappointed Dweller
---
I've never been a subscriber to this magazine, but I will certainly make an effort to be sure no one else becomes one in the future. Thanks for making an issue of this archinecters.
I am assuming that many of us have written letters to our friend, Christina. Has anyone received a response from her and/or Dwell besides the one posted on April 27th?
I'm getting tired of Dwell- there is only so many times I can see the same little, million$+ modern town home/condo with cool, spoiled 'artsy', owners with bold framed glasses- sipping latte'.
I'm bumping this because I received my final issue of Dwell today. Despite their beggin me to stay, I won't be renewing my subscription!
But I also had created a profile on Dwell Connect, back when I was trying to raise awareness about the Breuer library potential demolition (not a sinlge response to my comment there, BTW. I'm beginning to think Dwell readers really are selfish, style-obsessed yuppies!). Now I want to delete my profile and guess what, there's no way to do it! The website says Laverage Software runs the Dwell Connect website, so I went to the Lverage Software website and guess what - no contact informaiton for anyone NOT looking to try out their product!
I'm getting more and more miffed about this.
I think Ms. Christina's reponse on Bustler was just salt in the wound, no?
I reviewed comments here and on bustler and read over the competition guidelines. Great comments but I found myself with a different rxn.
The winning design award package (which I cut and pasted below for reference) of $5K in award money plus substantive exposure at both the web, print, and PR level seem fair at first glance for an emerging interior designer.
I don't know if the prize package below has been updated since the design community initially posted feedback. If it has been updated, good job Dwell and great job design community.
WINNING DESIGN PRIZES
Winning design announcement on dwell.com with link to the firm/company’s or individual’s website
In-book community announcement in a future issue of Dwell
Design Source listing online for 3 months
Conference pass to Dwell on Design Conference and Exhibition, September 14-16 in San Francisco
Winning design press release/announcement from The Infinity
Winning design announcement at The Infinity Sales and Design Center
look at the first post of the thread...it explains what the original prize
was. the current award is less agregious..
here's an excerpt:
"Each of the three winners will be given a budget of $75,000 for the purchase of furniture and other items necessary to implement the winning design. This budget is not a cash prize, and none of this amount is to be paid to any winner."
chingale, where are you seeing this? I just re-checked Bustler after reading your post, and I still see
"PRIZES
Three (3) grand prize winners, one design for each of the three unit types, will have their designs implemented by The Infinity. Sponsor reserves the right not to award any or all of the available prizes in the event that the entries do not meet Sponsor’s standards. Winners will receive special recognition as part of The Infinity promotional materials, as well as within the Sales Center for the development and in the model unit, for a period of time to be determined by Sponsor. Each of the three winners will be given a budget of $75,000 for the purchase of furniture and other items necessary to implement the winning design. This budget is not a cash prize, and none of this amount is to be paid to any winner. The entire budget of $75,000 will go towards furnishings and other materials for the condominium, and no cash award is provided to the winners nor shall winners receive any compensation for any assistance winners may provide to Sponsor in implementing the winning designs."
I just clicked on the link to register for the contest so I could see the offical contest language as opposed to seeing bustler's summary of the design contest:
I just thought I'd share since I thought perhaps people were still reacting off of the bustler summary of the contest as opposed to the actual contest language posted on Dwell.
It looks like the additional prizes were added on 5/9/07 according to the official contest rules, so perhaps great job archinect and design community for improving the scope of the contest for emerging designers??
Jeepers creepers!! They totally revised the prize so winning actually *means* something!! I can only guess it's due to the uproar here and at Bustler - thanks for starting this whole issue, bp3, and thanks to Dwell for changing the contest!! Yay for online activism!
I would think they would have advertised this themselves, to make us all aware of their change of heart. Good job, Dwell!
i mean with all the ad revenue that heap of shit rakes in, they can only generate 5000?
if anything i am even more pissed. the first maybe an oversight, but this minor change does nothing for anyone, and only emboldens client apathy towards the profession. now when some shit head client comes to an architect, and said architect lays out the fee, the client will come back and cite dwell and the winning designer - and prize $$$ - and ask why is your fee so high??
As far as I am concerned, American architecture (especially Dwell) magazines are short attention span, trend-driven dreck. I lost interest after P/A was killed off. DETAIL magazine, THE PLAN magazine, and El Croquis is the only thing worth looking at, let alone, spending money on.
What astounded me was how flat-footed the response was to the initial outcry. That pro forma cr*p response posted at Bustler and the virtual silence that followed was inept and demonstrated a remarkable PR naivete for such a slick brand. Whatever grudging goodwill the mag had managed to earn from the arch/design community was on the line and all they could muster was a "there, there, we'll fix this and shut them up" expediency. While it's commendable that they restored some measure of dignity to the contest there's an obvious continuation of PR ineptitude and risk in evidence here, highlighted by the inaudible dissemination of the rule change for starters. It appears they're attempting a quiet capitulation in the hopes of a quid pro quo. How revealing is that?
Nothing short of a transparent and precedent setting editorial will save their integrity now, imo. There's a unique opportunity for them to cast some much-needed light on the elephant in the room. Failing to do so would simply confirm what everybody already suspects.
Pimpin' their ride just got a whole lot uglier.
Kudos bp3 et al
Excellent response, xentropy, and exactly why I wondered about their silence at changing the rules. It's a good move, but why aren;t they turning it into a PR opportunity for themselves? Sheepishness?
We tried contacting Christine, Dwell's online editor, to get some comments regarding the recent changes to the competition, but we received an auto-response stating that Christine is no longer with Dwell.
perhaps christine was left out to dry by the bigwigs at dwell. or perhaps the folks at the infinity took a liking to her PR efforts and took her under their ample wingspan.
i think she got axed for trying to reason with public outcry and thus giving a power base to an unexpected bustler (bustedweller;.)... this is worst than none award competetion situation and certainly shows the ugly side of design magazine world. it is time to go national media on this...
Dwell competition to exploit young designers for free work
Dwell don't go Pimping no Emerging Architects! We are the second oldest profession in the world.....just behind, Guess Who?
lb..i rewrote it..but the first response was well worded and
more concise..the newer version is a lot more sarcastic..
but maybe reflects my mood better anyway.
I just sent a second letter to Dwell.
I'm sure they do enjoy our "passionate community" but when that community dissolves because we all have to find another way to make a living they'll probably miss us.
And Orhan is right - on the damage control pacifier thing.
haha lovely liberty bell.....
such a ham!
los angeles
Friday, April 27, 2007
no, you hoped to benefit Dwell and Infinity. In the long run, you only hurt designers by teaching clients that their services are not worth anything.
this is rationalist's response to demage control editor's post.
right on..!!
Thank you. I sent them an email to the same effect, asking them (among other things), "What happens when your readers ask the designers that won to furnish their condos or homes for a total budget of $75,000 and no design fee?"
The idea that they are helping the winners is just so short-sighted. Yes, they will get more clients because they've been published in Dwell. But what will the expectations of those clients be when they know that those designers will work for free?
yes, OA, I was going to add to rationalists reply to that woman's form letter on the comp forum, but for some odd reason after I took time to carefully develop my thoughts in writing, and hit the submit key, it all but disappeared....
But yes....i wish that instead of some form letter she would have take the time to really sit down and tell us what they might be thinking of doing to alleviate this situation.
being published in anywhere does not automatically get you any clients. i was published in new york times and only call i got was from a long lost friend in ann arbor. it was a spring home edition of nyt magazine too.
ha. So I guess I'm giving them even more credit than they deserve then, huh?
That comment page on Bustler is getting pretty good, isn't it? I like Karl-Erik Larson's comment: ps. i look forward to your competition for 'emerging heart and brain surgeons.'
This whole thing is quite interesting....it seems like they caught us at a perfect time, like we were itching to have an outside entity to express our dissatisfaction with the way designers are compensated, and our responses are that much more emphatic because it might actually impact a developer.
dwell ain't the problem. the design community is the problem. for example, the current issue of architect which has a cover story about intern incomes. several times in the article it is stated by someone that they aren't in it for the money etc. frankly, the profession needs to take back much of what they've given away. starting with me i am billing my client for this comment.
I made the Front Cover of Architectural Digest, and all I have ever recieved was calls from people I would rather not take on as clients or interior decorators wanting to know where we obtained the beautiful fabric in my clients bedroom. Oh ya they did send me a hard bound copy of the magazine. I was however dissapointed when I learned they actually run different covers for different parts of the country. We were the East Coast Cover. I'm sure glad I had a paying client.
The idea of publicity as ample compensation is clearly an absurd assumption on Dwell's part. Their magazine exists because of designers, designers do not exist because of Dwell. I'm really enjoying the uprising against this nonsense, as well as the great bit of forshadowing on an older thread about the "Slow Commercialized Decent of Dwell".
Who said "slow"?
Wondering if Dwell Sends out hard bound copies to the designers who make it on their cover. Most likely they send you one of those notices, which says you can purchase copies of the article, as long as you purchase them in lots of one-hundred.
ok - so i thought about entering it ONLY because
a) dwell's an ok mag - they wouldnt post a b.s. competition, right? [wrong]
b) i didnt fully read what the competition was or what was the prize because - they put affordable buiding stds out in front - why would they not reward the winners? [wrong- apparently they wont]
c) nor did i realize it was basically interior decoration competition. i wanted to knock EVERYTHING interior down and redesign the ENTIRE thing. [wrong - just frolicking with textiles]
i want to know if theyre going to rescind the competition. or at least put out a kickass issue based on 'necters.
please keep this thread alive....
Dwell has sucked for quite awhile. It is an ad rag.
That's an excellent idea kyll! I actually just finished a project I was ready to submit to them - but since I've publicly scolded them in more than one place now I feel like I can't.
This is [url=http://whatdoiknow.org/archives/003042.shtml[/url] a funny story about being published in Dwell, anyway.
So maybe not.
Knew I'd screwed that up! a funny story
I think we should send Bob Villa over there to straighten the Dwell People out.
How about Loos, instead?
Any AIA San Francisco members out there? Your website is featuring this competition. Perhaps a letter from a member asking them if free design is an idea they want to promote?
interesting story. (warning: leading to tangential subject)
well, i've been to Morimoto Restaurant in chelsea, nyc (actually had dinner there too - exxxxxpensive as $hit) and although some of the ideas were interesting, unique and racy, the detailing wasn't that great. regular plywood painted to look like red-doug fir, floorlights poorly placed and the openings for them just rough-cut and sloppily done, metal(?) reveals that werent securely fastened. that water bottle wall? well if you touch it, the entire thing moves - cascading not water, but dust caught in the bottle voids above the 'lounge' area taking away the idea of it actually being a static waterfall figure, but a dust distributor. the 3form cast resin counter at the bar has some hardware that i removed WITH MY HANDS in front of the bartender. Overall, nice looking place but reveals, detailing, and edges - poorly executed. Yet - it "blessed" the cover of arch record (int. issue 06).
Interesting tangent.... in my publication design class, there were a lot of times when you get a photo that you're like "THIS is the cover/feature/vingnette/! It's gorgeous. As long as we make sure that this bit at the corner gets cropped out...." When you're designing a spread, you just understand that there are imperfections in almost every product, every building, every photo, and it's just a part of your job to make sure they don't make it into the final print. Because magazine design is somebody's whole job, and that somebody may or may not care what sort of architectural statement they're making, and are in fact trained to make every photo and spread look as absolutely gorgeous as possible, you can pretty much bet that in every money shot, there is a chip in the countertop, some badly stained grout, missing weatherstripping, or other faux pas lurking juuuuust out of frame.
I know - believe me, I've been the guilty one on occasion when it comes to placing the fire extinguisher/wayfinding signage/electrical panel on the side of the hallway that I know won't show in the photograph. I just thought it was a funny and timely article.
my thing is - why not mention it in the article? why not state something like - "the architects took great care in this portion of the bldg, but not in the area(s) where things will eventually be replaced and/or finished at a later and more feasible time" almost giving a disclaimer for any imperfections found - but still a respectable project.
ok, maybe thats too much to ask for....
My Bustler complaint slash Letter to the Editor of Dwell:
Dwell,
Your support for The Infinity Design Challenge and its exploitation of emergent design professionals genuinely undermines the very 'intelligent, thoughtful, and modern' vision that architects and designers work ardently to fortify. On behalf of your target audience, constituents of real life design, we urge you to rescind this contest and reevaluate the true philosophy of your magazine.
Sincerely,
Disappointed Dweller
---
I've never been a subscriber to this magazine, but I will certainly make an effort to be sure no one else becomes one in the future. Thanks for making an issue of this archinecters.
I am assuming that many of us have written letters to our friend, Christina. Has anyone received a response from her and/or Dwell besides the one posted on April 27th?
nope!
I'm getting tired of Dwell- there is only so many times I can see the same little, million$+ modern town home/condo with cool, spoiled 'artsy', owners with bold framed glasses- sipping latte'.
I'm bumping this because I received my final issue of Dwell today. Despite their beggin me to stay, I won't be renewing my subscription!
But I also had created a profile on Dwell Connect, back when I was trying to raise awareness about the Breuer library potential demolition (not a sinlge response to my comment there, BTW. I'm beginning to think Dwell readers really are selfish, style-obsessed yuppies!). Now I want to delete my profile and guess what, there's no way to do it! The website says Laverage Software runs the Dwell Connect website, so I went to the Lverage Software website and guess what - no contact informaiton for anyone NOT looking to try out their product!
I'm getting more and more miffed about this.
I think Ms. Christina's reponse on Bustler was just salt in the wound, no?
I have been out of dwell for years....find reading Commercial Property News more interesting helpful on a day to day basis.
ha ha, wow. just getting around to reading the comments posted on bustler.
that magazine sucks anyway.
the thing that further pisses me off, is that despite all the much deserved negative feedback, i'm sure dwell won't have trouble finding entrants.
Folks,
I reviewed comments here and on bustler and read over the competition guidelines. Great comments but I found myself with a different rxn.
The winning design award package (which I cut and pasted below for reference) of $5K in award money plus substantive exposure at both the web, print, and PR level seem fair at first glance for an emerging interior designer.
I don't know if the prize package below has been updated since the design community initially posted feedback. If it has been updated, good job Dwell and great job design community.
WINNING DESIGN PRIZES
Winning design announcement on dwell.com with link to the firm/company’s or individual’s website
In-book community announcement in a future issue of Dwell
Design Source listing online for 3 months
Conference pass to Dwell on Design Conference and Exhibition, September 14-16 in San Francisco
Winning design press release/announcement from The Infinity
Winning design announcement at The Infinity Sales and Design Center
$5,000 to each winning designer
I just hope the winner of the Dwell Comp doesn't end up with a HEAD
Shot on the Front of "Architecture"
chingale..
look at the first post of the thread...it explains what the original prize
was. the current award is less agregious..
here's an excerpt:
"Each of the three winners will be given a budget of $75,000 for the purchase of furniture and other items necessary to implement the winning design. This budget is not a cash prize, and none of this amount is to be paid to any winner."
chingale, where are you seeing this? I just re-checked Bustler after reading your post, and I still see
"PRIZES
Three (3) grand prize winners, one design for each of the three unit types, will have their designs implemented by The Infinity. Sponsor reserves the right not to award any or all of the available prizes in the event that the entries do not meet Sponsor’s standards. Winners will receive special recognition as part of The Infinity promotional materials, as well as within the Sales Center for the development and in the model unit, for a period of time to be determined by Sponsor. Each of the three winners will be given a budget of $75,000 for the purchase of furniture and other items necessary to implement the winning design. This budget is not a cash prize, and none of this amount is to be paid to any winner. The entire budget of $75,000 will go towards furnishings and other materials for the condominium, and no cash award is provided to the winners nor shall winners receive any compensation for any assistance winners may provide to Sponsor in implementing the winning designs."
I just clicked on the link to register for the contest so I could see the offical contest language as opposed to seeing bustler's summary of the design contest:
see Dwell's official link here:Dwell contest
I just thought I'd share since I thought perhaps people were still reacting off of the bustler summary of the contest as opposed to the actual contest language posted on Dwell.
It looks like the additional prizes were added on 5/9/07 according to the official contest rules, so perhaps great job archinect and design community for improving the scope of the contest for emerging designers??
Jeepers creepers!! They totally revised the prize so winning actually *means* something!! I can only guess it's due to the uproar here and at Bustler - thanks for starting this whole issue, bp3, and thanks to Dwell for changing the contest!! Yay for online activism!
I would think they would have advertised this themselves, to make us all aware of their change of heart. Good job, Dwell!
5000 ???
that is what exactly?
i mean with all the ad revenue that heap of shit rakes in, they can only generate 5000?
if anything i am even more pissed. the first maybe an oversight, but this minor change does nothing for anyone, and only emboldens client apathy towards the profession. now when some shit head client comes to an architect, and said architect lays out the fee, the client will come back and cite dwell and the winning designer - and prize $$$ - and ask why is your fee so high??
die dwell, die!
5k winnings for an architectural competition are pretty generous, unfortunately.
That seems pretty reasonable to me. Designing an interior will take significantly less time than, say, a museum.
For promotional purposes, this will probably be better than almost every other competition as 'regular' people will actually see the results.
Good job to all those that got them to change it!
As far as I am concerned, American architecture (especially Dwell) magazines are short attention span, trend-driven dreck. I lost interest after P/A was killed off. DETAIL magazine, THE PLAN magazine, and El Croquis is the only thing worth looking at, let alone, spending money on.
What astounded me was how flat-footed the response was to the initial outcry. That pro forma cr*p response posted at Bustler and the virtual silence that followed was inept and demonstrated a remarkable PR naivete for such a slick brand. Whatever grudging goodwill the mag had managed to earn from the arch/design community was on the line and all they could muster was a "there, there, we'll fix this and shut them up" expediency. While it's commendable that they restored some measure of dignity to the contest there's an obvious continuation of PR ineptitude and risk in evidence here, highlighted by the inaudible dissemination of the rule change for starters. It appears they're attempting a quiet capitulation in the hopes of a quid pro quo. How revealing is that?
Nothing short of a transparent and precedent setting editorial will save their integrity now, imo. There's a unique opportunity for them to cast some much-needed light on the elephant in the room. Failing to do so would simply confirm what everybody already suspects.
Pimpin' their ride just got a whole lot uglier.
Kudos bp3 et al
Excellent response, xentropy, and exactly why I wondered about their silence at changing the rules. It's a good move, but why aren;t they turning it into a PR opportunity for themselves? Sheepishness?
We tried contacting Christine, Dwell's online editor, to get some comments regarding the recent changes to the competition, but we received an auto-response stating that Christine is no longer with Dwell.
how convenient.
ha! Well, somebody certainly took responsibility for the situation (or was forced to).
WHOA! no longer working at dwell?
indeed convenient is one way to describe it.
perhaps christine was left out to dry by the bigwigs at dwell. or perhaps the folks at the infinity took a liking to her PR efforts and took her under their ample wingspan.
i think she got axed for trying to reason with public outcry and thus giving a power base to an unexpected bustler (bustedweller;.)... this is worst than none award competetion situation and certainly shows the ugly side of design magazine world. it is time to go national media on this...
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