ARE YOU GUYS IGNORANT OR WHAT??? My name is Bobbi and it comes from my Italian, Jewish, and Irish herritage. and the name is short form for a longer name that i will not to disclose and my last name is just a nickname for my real last name wich i will also to not disclose. to those of you who want to be friendly i appologize that i have not been able to make my responses faster as you can immagine we in the architecure field are very busy and i am very sure you feel the same way except i make more money!!! hahahaha
just kidding i know how tough it is. i once hired an architect intern and he reminded me of some of you. i had to let him go because he wasnt playing by the rtules and plus he never got along with any of the employees and he was too young.thats why i think it is better that hire draftsmen because we get work done fasters. true in name i am a contractor but i have never called myself an architect i just said architecture. but deep down inside i feel like i AM an architect because i do exactly the same things some of you lads do. i mean you should SEE how amazing the architecture design is for these houses are and how big they are. maybe i will to post some pics of them. before some of you were beings jerks about this all i tried to do is give the youngins glimpse of another option to pursue their architectural goals instead of stressing out for college. i made this clear to my son too bescause he pondered the decison to go to college and he ended up going and i supported him all the way. but hes gonna be rich too because he wants to go into mechanical engineering.
My name is Bobbi and it comes from my Italian, Jewish, and Irish herritage. and the name is short form for a longer name that i will not to disclose and my last name is just a nickname for my real last name wich i will also to not disclose. to those of you who want to be friendly i appologize that i have not been able to make my responses faster as you can immagine we in the architecure field are very busy and i am very sure you feel the same way except i make more money!!! hahahaha
just kidding i know how tough it is. i once hired an architect intern and he reminded me of some of you. i had to let him go because he wasnt playing by the rtules and plus he never got along with any of the employees and he was too young.thats why i think it is better that hire draftsmen because we get work done fasters. true in name i am a contractor but i have never called myself an architect i just said architecture. but deep down inside i feel like i AM an architect because i do exactly the same things some of you lads do. i mean you should SEE how amazing the architecture design is for these houses are and how big they are. maybe i will to post some pics of them. before some of you were beings jerks about this all i tried to do is give the youngins glimpse of another option to pursue their architectural goals instead of stressing out for college. i made this clear to my son too bescause he pondered the decison to go to college and he ended up going and i supported him all the way. but hes gonna be rich too because he wants to go into mechanical engineering.
it's you're as in you are a dope. take your money and jam it in your ass. see, that is the proper use of your and you're...i am sure the proper use of a 2X4 - that is a 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" piece of doug fir - should whack you upside your dome. idiot.
stourley krackite remind me of a very angry person. I can understand your frustration because while i drive around my brand new explorer, you probably still drive your foreign 1992 toyota camry. hahaha just kidding. we probably do exactly the same work so you don't have to act like a jerk.
a kraut car. the greatest generation gave up their youth figting and defeating those nazi scumbags and the japs too. so their grandkids could listen to "music" on their ipods and wear t-shirts to work and "design" shiny eyesores and you reward them with a freakin kraut kar. damn you stanley krackpipe!
vado same argument could be made for using gasoline, wearing clothes, and fancy technology - they are all imports from cultures you've lost and/or won wars with.
But I dig the greatest generation part....hear that Bobbi we can be civil
sorry guys, but bobbi's real, and i work for him. this guy is a genious, and i've often wondered what i wasted $50k on an education for. bobbi has shown me more about the genious nature of building planning, and how to design luxurious projects that clients want than any so-called architect i've worked for. sorry i told him about this site, but just so you know we're legit, here are some samples of our work:
a rendering i did:
now i'll just keep quiet as you people eat your words.
That's stunning work you got there.I'm literary left speechless.Not exactly sure if i'm the guy you work for it could be someone else in the area but it would be weird anways.What kind of drywall do you use in the architecture?
bobbi, really, if you are going to flaunt your non college background, you might as well learn to spell. i mean you even spelled your own name a few different ways.
i understand that i really dont spell all that good but it is the message that comes accross that i am trying to do.The name thing was just an accidental TYPO. just the thought of paying 50k for an education disturbs me plenty much because most of the time it aint worth it.My neighbor just send his daughter to carneggie mellon to major in ART and she says that it is roughly 30k a SEMESTER!!!!If my son wanted to do that I would laugh in his face!hahahah lol.My son wanted to go to Penn State, but me and my wife agreed that it is too expensive and all they ever do is drink and party. so I send him to Penn State at Erie so he could be closest to us.I actually consider us to be a very educated family.I was near the top of my highschool, made honors every year and played football.My wife went to ITT TECH and got a degree in nursing and she is very good at what she does and my daughter wants to be a doctor.We have plenty of education and anymore would be a waste of time and montey.
okay, bobbi, if this is joke, then whoever is behind this is taking it way too seriously, but i'll treat it all seriously myself for a post.
bobbi, the houses that you produce are not what most architects would call architecture. there's a level of training that you get in design school, then through the internship and licensing process, that give you both an understanding of design and the profession that cannot be achieved through the route you took to starting your business. while you might like to think of yourself as an architect, you are not one in the eyes of the professional world. the more you try to pose as one, the more real architects will look down on you, hence the antagonism of many of these posts. if you're indeed interested in architecture which it seems you are, i would recommend going to your local library and reading some books on it and learning a bit of its history. it may give you some perspective on what is architecture and what is simply building.
i agree with bobbi. college is overpriced and in my opinion overrated. go to trade school. learn a trade. an architect is just a journeyman anyway. unless you are the best of the best. which frankly most of you sadly will learn that you are not.
Man, this thread is entertaining between Bobbi and you cats I don't know who's funnier.
First of all, no one ever said you had to go to school to become an architect, did Palladio and Michaelangelo ever have to go to school and sit through a crit? Did Tadao Ando? Of course not. This whole idea of "architecture school" is barely really two centuries old, since they started Le Ecole way back in the day. While I do agree that school is very, very good at expanding one's horizons and allowing one to further hone their skills at architecture it is not necessarily necessary for everybody especially when they are of the savant/genius variety. Now I'm not saying this guys work is genius, i think it is far from it but it should give all you academic types a SOBERING insight into what your going to be doing after you get out of college. Its this sobering insight that is giving me a serious idea that i should get an engineering degree in grad school, and not three more years of architecture. He wants to make money and build spec houses for a living, fine let him. You guys wanna be arty communist types, fine be arty communist types but maybe you could learn something from each other.
This entire thread is sort of a corrolary to the whole discussion on the disparity between the culture of architects and that of ... everyone else, and how we can close the gap to save our profession.
The bobbi's of the world exist because there is a demand for it. If Bobbi makes more money than us that only means average joe america values what he does more than what we do. We as architects struggle to reconcile this demand for woefully nostalgic neo-traditional garbage with our perception of architecture because of our exposure to a broad spectrum of ideas and history, generally acquired through academic training.
I believe that the inability of our culture to promote and assert a higher more progressive standard for architecture to the collective masses has left this country with the architectural gumption of 10 year olds.
When I was 10 and drawing floor plans for my "dream house" (complete with 'secret passage' and 'weapons room') I never imagined that architecture could be more than the homes of the nuevo riche found in my parents AMWAY literature. My favorite music was encapsulated in an epic compilation known as "Jock Jams" and I dressed proudly, everyday, in sweatpants.
Through growing up, our collective culture seems to do pretty well to mature us (pressure us) out of these early phases- I dont' wear sweatpants anymore, my musical taste has completely changed (though I still can't help bobbing to "bust a move"). But all of that was a reponse to the pressure that I wouldn't be accepted or liked if I didn't make that change. But coming to architecture..
You can think grandma's house is the pinnacle of architectural achievement and nobody gives a shit. They won't make fun of you, they won't judge you... Some girl in a club isn't gonna throw a drink in your face because you think Michael Graves is the bee's knees (though maybe she should).
So coming to my point...
There are no social constructs in American culture to promote a higher appreciation of architecture while there are for fashion and music. Those industries have done well to foster these through advertising and other more subversive means- while architecture is woefully behind.
Now leaving aside the moral issue of whether such cultural manipulation is right we can all agree that it is effective and profitable and the profession could benefit from it.
All we have to do is begin to play the same game. We have the internet- Bobbi doesn't even have a website. The youth are in our hands to be groomed into the next generation of architectural consumers and I intend to do my best to make "good" architecture as sexy, trendy, and desirable as possible (without losing my soul in the process.)
This may sound like some bullshit essay but I say with complete seriousness that the advent of greater connectivity the present generation is exploring through mediums just like archinect will be the tool that influences the greater culture and proves the salvation of architecture.
Another point on the similar lines....
I have a professor who totes the title of "futurist." He likes to say that .. "in the future" .. innovation is currency. Static knowledge will be useless as technology and the evolution of ideas will be going so fast that the shelf life of that knowledge will be a fraction of what it is today. He's talking about technological (cultural?) singularity.
This positions architects in a premium place to exploit this new future. The ability to innovate and evolve ideas is at the core of our education. We are going to be some of the most influential figures in this new paradigm which begins as soon as we decide to seize control. This is the youTube generation- there's no reason it can't start today (whatever that really means).
So all this to say- who the fuck cares what Bobbi is up to. He'll be replaced by a robot in 30 years. Those of us, however, trained to think, trained to create, will be highly valued. We may even have enough money to afford a brand new explorer.
its funny that whoever doesn't have the same tastes in the built environment are referred to as the collective masses, when in fact these collective masses are just as educated, intelligent and important as the spirited individuals who inhabit the besieged masada of architectural elitism.
Excellent post, JBond - enough to bring me out of my week-long vacation lurking-only status to say so.
Bobby, do what you want, but a couple points:
Education in college, as many here have said, is not about learning a trade (such as construction) but learning how to think (and vado I wish you'd stop pushing the fucking trade school angle because you know that's an incomplete proposition). Architecture is not the only discipline in which knowing how to think creatively doesn't only earn one money but also makes a contribution to culture This could be by making buildings that make people use space in new ways, by proving that a vegetarian diet uses less energy/calorie to create than an omnivore diet, by disovering the link between smoking and lung cancer, by applying mapping techniques to crime statistics to figure out why some neghborhoods produce more criminals or scholars than others, and on and on.
Your builder-homes are doing nothing to further culture. If you think they are: tell me how a stapled-on PVC "shutter" that if it DID close would only cover 1/4 of the window width is a cultural contribution? It is slop: wasteful in resources, an affront to function, masquerading as something functional, appealing to people's nostalgia and fear of real estate value. Your houses are hideously ugly (not only visually but in land use and patterns of consumption, as well) and if I wasn't on vacation I might take more time to try to lay out - within the history of Western aesthetics - why my opinion is right.
Don't for a split second consider yourself "as good as an architect" - that's like me figuring out my son's fever should be treated with Tylenol then considering myself a doctor when his temperature drops. Medicine, and architecture, is wholistic, which your construction projects are not.
Take some classes on architecture and Western (also Eastern!) art, study some philosophers, think about how your off-gassing houses are polluting the landscape, or just enjoy your ignorance and your Explorer.
Vado, the only education that matters in the context of my discussion is that on architecture and it's related disciplines. I feel that if "the collective masses" were exposed to the full landscape of conflicting and varied ideas about architecture they would begin to understand the enormous benefits that well-designed architecture has to offer- entirely removed from the arena of scenographics (what it LOOKS like)- which I'm not interested in.
For example, it is far easier to make a sustainable building when not confined to the canon of some previous century's architectural style. The problems of this century demand we build sustainably at a minimum. It's a new century with uniquely new problems, and designers (which can be contractors!) are just the people unfettered and informed enough to properly address these problems.
Architecture in College? Who needs it!
ok i guess that link doesn't support hyperlinking
travis bickle never went to college.
Is anyone else curious as to which architecter this Bobbi really is? i say Vado...
it aint me as i would have used a creative name such as Fred C. Dobbs, or Julian Sorel, or Dirty Sanchez.
Angry dragon?
It's Fountainlad's kid brother, me thinks.
FAIF
(franklyawfulinsipidfoo'?)
ARE YOU GUYS IGNORANT OR WHAT??? My name is Bobbi and it comes from my Italian, Jewish, and Irish herritage. and the name is short form for a longer name that i will not to disclose and my last name is just a nickname for my real last name wich i will also to not disclose. to those of you who want to be friendly i appologize that i have not been able to make my responses faster as you can immagine we in the architecure field are very busy and i am very sure you feel the same way except i make more money!!! hahahaha
just kidding i know how tough it is. i once hired an architect intern and he reminded me of some of you. i had to let him go because he wasnt playing by the rtules and plus he never got along with any of the employees and he was too young.thats why i think it is better that hire draftsmen because we get work done fasters. true in name i am a contractor but i have never called myself an architect i just said architecture. but deep down inside i feel like i AM an architect because i do exactly the same things some of you lads do. i mean you should SEE how amazing the architecture design is for these houses are and how big they are. maybe i will to post some pics of them. before some of you were beings jerks about this all i tried to do is give the youngins glimpse of another option to pursue their architectural goals instead of stressing out for college. i made this clear to my son too bescause he pondered the decison to go to college and he ended up going and i supported him all the way. but hes gonna be rich too because he wants to go into mechanical engineering.
definitely a fake.
You should have at least taken you English classes seriously.
WAit until you see the houses.Nothing fake about any of them!
AreTHEy cooooulls?
English Classes???We're talking about architecture here not English classes.
Your communication skills are lacking..badly. You should go back.
Your the one who needs ENGLISH CLASSES son. I can't understand a word you just said. Do you smoke drugs or something lol
LL)LOOLOOLO(OLO(OO((OO(
My name is Bobbi and it comes from my Italian, Jewish, and Irish herritage. and the name is short form for a longer name that i will not to disclose and my last name is just a nickname for my real last name wich i will also to not disclose. to those of you who want to be friendly i appologize that i have not been able to make my responses faster as you can immagine we in the architecure field are very busy and i am very sure you feel the same way except i make more money!!! hahahaha
just kidding i know how tough it is. i once hired an architect intern and he reminded me of some of you. i had to let him go because he wasnt playing by the rtules and plus he never got along with any of the employees and he was too young.thats why i think it is better that hire draftsmen because we get work done fasters. true in name i am a contractor but i have never called myself an architect i just said architecture. but deep down inside i feel like i AM an architect because i do exactly the same things some of you lads do. i mean you should SEE how amazing the architecture design is for these houses are and how big they are. maybe i will to post some pics of them. before some of you were beings jerks about this all i tried to do is give the youngins glimpse of another option to pursue their architectural goals instead of stressing out for college. i made this clear to my son too bescause he pondered the decison to go to college and he ended up going and i supported him all the way. but hes gonna be rich too because he wants to go into mechanical engineering.
it's you're as in you are a dope. take your money and jam it in your ass. see, that is the proper use of your and you're...i am sure the proper use of a 2X4 - that is a 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" piece of doug fir - should whack you upside your dome. idiot.
stourley krackite remind me of a very angry person. I can understand your frustration because while i drive around my brand new explorer, you probably still drive your foreign 1992 toyota camry. hahaha just kidding. we probably do exactly the same work so you don't have to act like a jerk.
most of the posters on this site could stand an english refresher course.
unless you drive an exploooereero. yeah beaootcchches....pwned.
ford explorer huh? gee, i guess i should trade down -
what do you think bobbi...?
something tells me bobbi, that you couldn't carry this guys water....
a kraut car. the greatest generation gave up their youth figting and defeating those nazi scumbags and the japs too. so their grandkids could listen to "music" on their ipods and wear t-shirts to work and "design" shiny eyesores and you reward them with a freakin kraut kar. damn you stanley krackpipe!
vado, it's time for the resurrection and you are acting pretty angry. do you need some EB love?
im just reminding you of the sacrifices that were made so you dont have to goosestep down to the albert speer school of architecture and planning.
vado same argument could be made for using gasoline, wearing clothes, and fancy technology - they are all imports from cultures you've lost and/or won wars with.
But I dig the greatest generation part....hear that Bobbi we can be civil
if the greatest generation heard you talking like that they would weep.
sorry guys, but bobbi's real, and i work for him. this guy is a genious, and i've often wondered what i wasted $50k on an education for. bobbi has shown me more about the genious nature of building planning, and how to design luxurious projects that clients want than any so-called architect i've worked for. sorry i told him about this site, but just so you know we're legit, here are some samples of our work:
a rendering i did:
now i'll just keep quiet as you people eat your words.
That's stunning work you got there.I'm literary left speechless.Not exactly sure if i'm the guy you work for it could be someone else in the area but it would be weird anways.What kind of drywall do you use in the architecture?
bobbi, really, if you are going to flaunt your non college background, you might as well learn to spell. i mean you even spelled your own name a few different ways.
bossman, has that genious bobbi been offering lunch and learns on spelling and grammar?
btw what program did you do that rendering in? that's hot.
i understand that i really dont spell all that good but it is the message that comes accross that i am trying to do.The name thing was just an accidental TYPO. just the thought of paying 50k for an education disturbs me plenty much because most of the time it aint worth it.My neighbor just send his daughter to carneggie mellon to major in ART and she says that it is roughly 30k a SEMESTER!!!!If my son wanted to do that I would laugh in his face!hahahah lol.My son wanted to go to Penn State, but me and my wife agreed that it is too expensive and all they ever do is drink and party. so I send him to Penn State at Erie so he could be closest to us.I actually consider us to be a very educated family.I was near the top of my highschool, made honors every year and played football.My wife went to ITT TECH and got a degree in nursing and she is very good at what she does and my daughter wants to be a doctor.We have plenty of education and anymore would be a waste of time and montey.
hi vado.
okay, bobbi, if this is joke, then whoever is behind this is taking it way too seriously, but i'll treat it all seriously myself for a post.
bobbi, the houses that you produce are not what most architects would call architecture. there's a level of training that you get in design school, then through the internship and licensing process, that give you both an understanding of design and the profession that cannot be achieved through the route you took to starting your business. while you might like to think of yourself as an architect, you are not one in the eyes of the professional world. the more you try to pose as one, the more real architects will look down on you, hence the antagonism of many of these posts. if you're indeed interested in architecture which it seems you are, i would recommend going to your local library and reading some books on it and learning a bit of its history. it may give you some perspective on what is architecture and what is simply building.
i have rarely heard anyone tout that they were at the top of their high school, unless of course you were in the Breakfast Club...
read margolin's essay, "Sustainbility or Expansion" The two models of development
i agree with bobbi. college is overpriced and in my opinion overrated. go to trade school. learn a trade. an architect is just a journeyman anyway. unless you are the best of the best. which frankly most of you sadly will learn that you are not.
be part of the dream!!
this is clearly a joke...
and a running one at that ksArcher
thanks alot vado retro
ive lost all interest in becoming an architect
Man, this thread is entertaining between Bobbi and you cats I don't know who's funnier.
First of all, no one ever said you had to go to school to become an architect, did Palladio and Michaelangelo ever have to go to school and sit through a crit? Did Tadao Ando? Of course not. This whole idea of "architecture school" is barely really two centuries old, since they started Le Ecole way back in the day. While I do agree that school is very, very good at expanding one's horizons and allowing one to further hone their skills at architecture it is not necessarily necessary for everybody especially when they are of the savant/genius variety. Now I'm not saying this guys work is genius, i think it is far from it but it should give all you academic types a SOBERING insight into what your going to be doing after you get out of college. Its this sobering insight that is giving me a serious idea that i should get an engineering degree in grad school, and not three more years of architecture. He wants to make money and build spec houses for a living, fine let him. You guys wanna be arty communist types, fine be arty communist types but maybe you could learn something from each other.
******************TANGENT WARNING*********************
This entire thread is sort of a corrolary to the whole discussion on the disparity between the culture of architects and that of ... everyone else, and how we can close the gap to save our profession.
The bobbi's of the world exist because there is a demand for it. If Bobbi makes more money than us that only means average joe america values what he does more than what we do. We as architects struggle to reconcile this demand for woefully nostalgic neo-traditional garbage with our perception of architecture because of our exposure to a broad spectrum of ideas and history, generally acquired through academic training.
I believe that the inability of our culture to promote and assert a higher more progressive standard for architecture to the collective masses has left this country with the architectural gumption of 10 year olds.
When I was 10 and drawing floor plans for my "dream house" (complete with 'secret passage' and 'weapons room') I never imagined that architecture could be more than the homes of the nuevo riche found in my parents AMWAY literature. My favorite music was encapsulated in an epic compilation known as "Jock Jams" and I dressed proudly, everyday, in sweatpants.
Through growing up, our collective culture seems to do pretty well to mature us (pressure us) out of these early phases- I dont' wear sweatpants anymore, my musical taste has completely changed (though I still can't help bobbing to "bust a move"). But all of that was a reponse to the pressure that I wouldn't be accepted or liked if I didn't make that change. But coming to architecture..
You can think grandma's house is the pinnacle of architectural achievement and nobody gives a shit. They won't make fun of you, they won't judge you... Some girl in a club isn't gonna throw a drink in your face because you think Michael Graves is the bee's knees (though maybe she should).
So coming to my point...
There are no social constructs in American culture to promote a higher appreciation of architecture while there are for fashion and music. Those industries have done well to foster these through advertising and other more subversive means- while architecture is woefully behind.
Now leaving aside the moral issue of whether such cultural manipulation is right we can all agree that it is effective and profitable and the profession could benefit from it.
All we have to do is begin to play the same game. We have the internet- Bobbi doesn't even have a website. The youth are in our hands to be groomed into the next generation of architectural consumers and I intend to do my best to make "good" architecture as sexy, trendy, and desirable as possible (without losing my soul in the process.)
This may sound like some bullshit essay but I say with complete seriousness that the advent of greater connectivity the present generation is exploring through mediums just like archinect will be the tool that influences the greater culture and proves the salvation of architecture.
Another point on the similar lines....
I have a professor who totes the title of "futurist." He likes to say that .. "in the future" .. innovation is currency. Static knowledge will be useless as technology and the evolution of ideas will be going so fast that the shelf life of that knowledge will be a fraction of what it is today. He's talking about technological (cultural?) singularity.
This positions architects in a premium place to exploit this new future. The ability to innovate and evolve ideas is at the core of our education. We are going to be some of the most influential figures in this new paradigm which begins as soon as we decide to seize control. This is the youTube generation- there's no reason it can't start today (whatever that really means).
So all this to say- who the fuck cares what Bobbi is up to. He'll be replaced by a robot in 30 years. Those of us, however, trained to think, trained to create, will be highly valued. We may even have enough money to afford a brand new explorer.
Nice post Jbond, and I'm serious.
its funny that whoever doesn't have the same tastes in the built environment are referred to as the collective masses, when in fact these collective masses are just as educated, intelligent and important as the spirited individuals who inhabit the besieged masada of architectural elitism.
Excellent post, JBond - enough to bring me out of my week-long vacation lurking-only status to say so.
Bobby, do what you want, but a couple points:
Education in college, as many here have said, is not about learning a trade (such as construction) but learning how to think (and vado I wish you'd stop pushing the fucking trade school angle because you know that's an incomplete proposition). Architecture is not the only discipline in which knowing how to think creatively doesn't only earn one money but also makes a contribution to culture This could be by making buildings that make people use space in new ways, by proving that a vegetarian diet uses less energy/calorie to create than an omnivore diet, by disovering the link between smoking and lung cancer, by applying mapping techniques to crime statistics to figure out why some neghborhoods produce more criminals or scholars than others, and on and on.
Your builder-homes are doing nothing to further culture. If you think they are: tell me how a stapled-on PVC "shutter" that if it DID close would only cover 1/4 of the window width is a cultural contribution? It is slop: wasteful in resources, an affront to function, masquerading as something functional, appealing to people's nostalgia and fear of real estate value. Your houses are hideously ugly (not only visually but in land use and patterns of consumption, as well) and if I wasn't on vacation I might take more time to try to lay out - within the history of Western aesthetics - why my opinion is right.
Don't for a split second consider yourself "as good as an architect" - that's like me figuring out my son's fever should be treated with Tylenol then considering myself a doctor when his temperature drops. Medicine, and architecture, is wholistic, which your construction projects are not.
Take some classes on architecture and Western (also Eastern!) art, study some philosophers, think about how your off-gassing houses are polluting the landscape, or just enjoy your ignorance and your Explorer.
Vado, the only education that matters in the context of my discussion is that on architecture and it's related disciplines. I feel that if "the collective masses" were exposed to the full landscape of conflicting and varied ideas about architecture they would begin to understand the enormous benefits that well-designed architecture has to offer- entirely removed from the arena of scenographics (what it LOOKS like)- which I'm not interested in.
For example, it is far easier to make a sustainable building when not confined to the canon of some previous century's architectural style. The problems of this century demand we build sustainably at a minimum. It's a new century with uniquely new problems, and designers (which can be contractors!) are just the people unfettered and informed enough to properly address these problems.
come on fellow architects! be nice to the builders!
this thread has grown beyond it's realm. I want to be the first to pronouce it dead.
Mark Bobby may be a bad joke, but I think this type of discussion - "Why is a builder home not a piece of architecture?" - is valid.
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