I created this thread for architectural topics only. But, if you have seen a good film, read a good non architecture book or are a good lookin girl who wants to post a picture feel free to comment...
can a progressive movement that lead to the current state of architecture be considered a failure? Dont most ideas have to fall by the wayside to allow new thought process' to be created. is it in fact unfair to criticize a formerly great architectural movement for his latter day sins, is it better to burn out or fade away?
that's one way to look at it, but another way is this: modernism was suppost to produce inexpensive structures out of excess materials of the day, in order to bring good architecture to the masses. Did it do that? Hell no. It created an architectural movement that the public didn't understand and didn't appreciate, that wasn't affordable to them. Look at it that way and it sure looks like a failure.
Modernism was not a failour, it was the computer that was invented to late. If the computer had been there then, we wouldn't have so many useless buildings , --- if so atleast they would have been nice.
In intrest of the original post of this thread, i'd like the share with you the first project from Diller + Scofidio (+ Renfro) that I actually like, the Institute of Contemporary Art in Boston.
Any boston archinectors care to tell me how much this building sucks/rules? I cant seem to find my latest issue of Arch. Record.
post-neo, I think that, by that definition, disco was a failure, with minimal precedent and zero influence on subsequent musical movements. I agree about modernism; I think it is a more enduring movement than say, postmodernism, which will be lucky to be a footnote in an obscure book one day.
cynicism is dead when it's in your global chain fast food advertisements.
btw, I just caught "Last Days of Disco" on the other day...what a horrible movie.
architecturally speaking.
Mar 27, 07 7:53 pm ·
·
My brother told me that after Sex in the City the next show he watched was Sex in the Country. I went to bed before him so I don't know if he made that up or not.
its almost easter I just had a slice of bun...
it reminded me of a toyo ito building...architecturally speaking what happened to his giant robot fetish?
what?! l8rpeace, disco has been incredibly influential. you can hear the characteristic rhythms behind most pop music out there. and acid jazz and house of a decade ago didn't come from jazz or techno without a good dose of disco thrown in. like them or not, gnarls barkley was huge last year and they couldn't have happened without disco.
and btw, barry gibb has written a huge number of #1 hit songs, second only to the beatles.
"vinpust,
what makes you say that the introduction of the computer could have made modern buildings more useful? just curious."
Most of the hero's of those times seem more into develobing the materials ,expanding the possibilities and simply had a different attitude , a more hands-on attitude , I would say a more visionary aproach based on the structure, the real material matters rather than the social things.
I see it this way ,that an architect would be someone who understood what you could do with steel profiles, who know the gain replacing the bricks with concrete and undrstood the strength of the materials and how this feel could deliver new design and that way throw away the dull victorian narrowmindness , ---- today no one remember what these hero's realy was up against ,what sparked the revolutions in building arts and no one seem to realise that today ,even we got the computer we are stranded in the exact same mud bu ordering the computer to do the exact same things the same way, as before the computer.
so your saying if Corbu was given a computer he would've been able to kick even more Beaux-Arts ass? Yet how does that make modern architecture more useful?
steven, I disagree. disco was practically an entity unto itself. almost like a fusion of funk and jazz at times (with some occasional references to blues and obviously the R&B collective)....but, I don't know if any contemporary music can be directly attributed to disco - contemporary music takes it's cues directly from older precedents. I think the disco branch of the music tree didn't really extend to anything else. the precedents of disco kind of blew right past the disco genre into newer genres.
that's not to say that disco didn't thrive at one time...there were plenty of #1's, in different "segments" of musical charts that follow such popular opinion.
whoa, sorry, I was just f*cking around. I didn't think anyone would take this seriously (which is probably why I chose disco) - particularly in the architectural topics thread.
I wonder what type of social experiment this thread is...to see how quickly the topic digresses...guilty.
"And i think Corbu was very much interested in the social things. Can't speak for any of the other godfathers of the movement though."
It is difficult to find a better response to the call for new houses and cheaper safer homes m than a responsible suggestion to make it all better and nicer with new innovative methods.
I think more baux glossy boredom could be the result but then atleast it would not have been fake and one like FLW -- now tell me would you realy emagine, that his designs couldn't profit ,by the privileage of the designer asuming totaly no responsability whatso ever.
I guess it would have been others to, that would better overview new methods and extravagant side effects and maybe yes, this could have brought a compleatly different world, than the one we know today. I am sure it would be a nicer architecture though, but that is for other resons , becaurse the dead-ends architecture have been occupying.
I am going to regret this. But it IS an architectural topics thread.
vindPer, I haven't read all of fancy graphics thread, but every time you talk about how 3D-H could help make "new, better, nicer houses" I wonder how it could benefit what I see as a far more important area of architecture/building which is retrofitting existing buildings.
How can 3D-H help this neighborhood to flourish?
I'm not joking, I'm asking seriously: what are the applications for 3D-H to help renovate existing infrastructure and thus salvage the enormous amounts of embodied energy in our already-built cities?
liberty, I don't know anything about this 3d-h, but I have to ask (if only because I was talking about it with my students this morning on a field trip): what's the greater problem: the building architecture or the urban planning?
I always think the urban planning problems trump individual architectural details every time when we speak about overall quality of life for the inhabitants. sure, poorly designed spaces (habitats, working environments, transportation centers of all ilk) tend to irk the users, but rarely leave them destitute (hence the phrase "wrong side of the tracks")?
who has the more important job, the architect or someone else involved with organizing the general space/region?
I always think the urban planning problems trump individual architectural details every time when we speak about overall quality of life for the inhabitants.
Absolutely agreed. And urban planning as instituted can, I think, typically be traced back to political favors/games moreso than to good or bad urban design. Which is one reason architects feel so powerless.
I'm sorry, interesting topic now but I have to get back to work.
"I wonder how it could benefit what I see as a far more important area of architecture/building which is retrofitting existing buildings."
Any ; ---- 3D-H will provide a part house or a complete structure , it will smooth under your demands for an earthquake safer building ,but I guess that if it was used, it soon would deliver the new architecture , you in 500 years would see, as how you envision today's various building structures.
3D-H uses one material for delivering anything and it will plaster in fine , replacing even huge building sections but, sorry and sorry again ,it also will make something far way better, than what it could be projected to support ,beside on it's own it realy do put up an answer to the challance.
"How can 3D-H help this neighborhood to flourish?"
I can't tell you unless you realise that it is simply a new way to put things together, that it ask a 3D solid modeler and a wish to earn a mountain of money , --- 3D-H is just a new perception of the build works a lot of relevant new jobs and a different attitude to the call when the man cry out for a new house for him and his family.
I grew up in what can't be described as slum --- and I see those who had the guts to get it torn down as the real hero's of architecture. Some places simply do to much harm to who live there, but it is allway's the decay, the wear down, what this did to the people living there ,that propell it to expand itself --- why then ,why shuld it be so bad ,that a new way to put things together, can replace even what's there and in new sound materials and plumbing problems solved, at a third the cost and make a house that will last so much longer, before decay again make it cheap, to restore an intire building ,design the houses so the rats will rather leave than try their luck where decayed houses and forgotten secrets are simply gone.
stairs not meeting code could possibly be symptomatic of other, more extensive or rampant problems.
houses burn to the ground. there's obviously an economic threshold of responsibility...where do we, as a society of architects and planners, nay, CITIZENS, make the choice based on the opportunity cost of making something that much safer, that much better...like seat belts. We could probably outfit everyday cars with the safety equipment surpassing NASCAR, but the law of diminishing returns, on the scale of an entire population DRIVING the safe cars versus individuals able to AFFORD the safe cars, kicks in. Same with architecture...bildings aren't rated for fire at, say, 4 days, and code doesn't accomodate for that. Law of Diminishing returns.
Point is (and I promise there might just be a point in here somewhere...I think), code and zoning directly affect the general socieconomic tenor of an area in a way that can be quite obviously seen. People are poorer, things are built worse (and not up to code, to the fault of the designer, the inspector, the developer, WHOEVER), no one cares.
So maybe not BECAUSE the stairs didn't meet code did the building burn...but the uncompliant stairs could belie the greater problem as to why the building burned.
Yeah that is Philadelphia, the Kensington Area, the blue structure rising up in the left hand side of the Picture is The El track. I cant really make out the sign off in the distance but if it is where I think it is, You could pan the camera to the left a few degrees and see my street.
Finally A Thread Created For Architectual Topics.
I created this thread for architectural topics only. But, if you have seen a good film, read a good non architecture book or are a good lookin girl who wants to post a picture feel free to comment...
architecturally speaking...er, writing, this is a great thread
architectually speaking, i am a student
How Ive waited for you to come
Ive been here all alonG
Now that youve arrived
Please stay a while
And I promise I wont keep you long
Ill keep you FOREVER!!!!!
architecturally speaking, I can't call myself an architect, yet...
just wondering if I can post commentaries about the cricket?
I'm jumping to conclusions that king kong wants to commit adultry with that phallus he's atop.
architecturally speaking, of course.
Was modernism a failure? Now there's an architectural question.
can a progressive movement that lead to the current state of architecture be considered a failure? Dont most ideas have to fall by the wayside to allow new thought process' to be created. is it in fact unfair to criticize a formerly great architectural movement for his latter day sins, is it better to burn out or fade away?
architectually speaking...
that's one way to look at it, but another way is this: modernism was suppost to produce inexpensive structures out of excess materials of the day, in order to bring good architecture to the masses. Did it do that? Hell no. It created an architectural movement that the public didn't understand and didn't appreciate, that wasn't affordable to them. Look at it that way and it sure looks like a failure.
Modernism was not a failour, it was the computer that was invented to late. If the computer had been there then, we wouldn't have so many useless buildings , --- if so atleast they would have been nice.
Is 3DH a failure, or is it the future? Architecturally speaking, of course.
dammit kristin i thought i'd find a picture of you here!!!
architecturally speaking can we talk like architects?
tectonics....
juxtaposition....
fenestration...
concept...
architecturally speaking
charrette.
did i spell that correctly?
Can I still buy Girl Scout cookies or has that time passed?
i have some samoas you could have if you swing past my desk!
In intrest of the original post of this thread, i'd like the share with you the first project from Diller + Scofidio (+ Renfro) that I actually like, the Institute of Contemporary Art in Boston.
Any boston archinectors care to tell me how much this building sucks/rules? I cant seem to find my latest issue of Arch. Record.
it also appears there are no good pics on google images
ica
post-neo, I think that, by that definition, disco was a failure, with minimal precedent and zero influence on subsequent musical movements. I agree about modernism; I think it is a more enduring movement than say, postmodernism, which will be lucky to be a footnote in an obscure book one day.
cynicism is dead when it's in your global chain fast food advertisements.
btw, I just caught "Last Days of Disco" on the other day...what a horrible movie.
architecturally speaking.
My brother told me that after Sex in the City the next show he watched was Sex in the Country. I went to bed before him so I don't know if he made that up or not.
its almost easter I just had a slice of bun...
it reminded me of a toyo ito building...architecturally speaking what happened to his giant robot fetish?
30M
Any cute girls want to chat?
kristin_kai is the new Archinect muse... she likes my trunk
also, she has replaced Susan in Vado's world
o yea? speak this toyo...! stairways to heaven.
what?! l8rpeace, disco has been incredibly influential. you can hear the characteristic rhythms behind most pop music out there. and acid jazz and house of a decade ago didn't come from jazz or techno without a good dose of disco thrown in. like them or not, gnarls barkley was huge last year and they couldn't have happened without disco.
and btw, barry gibb has written a huge number of #1 hit songs, second only to the beatles.
i started a thread which got the whole world laughing
what i couldnt see. the joke was on me...oh oh oh
can we talk of how Yale blows ?
I had a fluffer-nutter sandwich for dinner tonight.
"vinpust,
what makes you say that the introduction of the computer could have made modern buildings more useful? just curious."
Most of the hero's of those times seem more into develobing the materials ,expanding the possibilities and simply had a different attitude , a more hands-on attitude , I would say a more visionary aproach based on the structure, the real material matters rather than the social things.
I see it this way ,that an architect would be someone who understood what you could do with steel profiles, who know the gain replacing the bricks with concrete and undrstood the strength of the materials and how this feel could deliver new design and that way throw away the dull victorian narrowmindness , ---- today no one remember what these hero's realy was up against ,what sparked the revolutions in building arts and no one seem to realise that today ,even we got the computer we are stranded in the exact same mud bu ordering the computer to do the exact same things the same way, as before the computer.
That thay wouldn't have done then.
so your saying if Corbu was given a computer he would've been able to kick even more Beaux-Arts ass? Yet how does that make modern architecture more useful?
And i think Corbu was very much interested in the social things. Can't speak for any of the other godfathers of the movement though.
steven, I disagree. disco was practically an entity unto itself. almost like a fusion of funk and jazz at times (with some occasional references to blues and obviously the R&B collective)....but, I don't know if any contemporary music can be directly attributed to disco - contemporary music takes it's cues directly from older precedents. I think the disco branch of the music tree didn't really extend to anything else. the precedents of disco kind of blew right past the disco genre into newer genres.
that's not to say that disco didn't thrive at one time...there were plenty of #1's, in different "segments" of musical charts that follow such popular opinion.
top five musical crimes perpetuated by Stevie Wonder in the 80s and 90s?
go
what are you top five songs to get you motivated on a Wednesday afternoon?
l8rpeace - ever hear any techno or house?
daft punk and jamiroquai sound like disco
whoa, sorry, I was just f*cking around. I didn't think anyone would take this seriously (which is probably why I chose disco) - particularly in the architectural topics thread.
I wonder what type of social experiment this thread is...to see how quickly the topic digresses...guilty.
"And i think Corbu was very much interested in the social things. Can't speak for any of the other godfathers of the movement though."
It is difficult to find a better response to the call for new houses and cheaper safer homes m than a responsible suggestion to make it all better and nicer with new innovative methods.
I think more baux glossy boredom could be the result but then atleast it would not have been fake and one like FLW -- now tell me would you realy emagine, that his designs couldn't profit ,by the privileage of the designer asuming totaly no responsability whatso ever.
I guess it would have been others to, that would better overview new methods and extravagant side effects and maybe yes, this could have brought a compleatly different world, than the one we know today. I am sure it would be a nicer architecture though, but that is for other resons , becaurse the dead-ends architecture have been occupying.
I am going to regret this. But it IS an architectural topics thread.
vindPer, I haven't read all of fancy graphics thread, but every time you talk about how 3D-H could help make "new, better, nicer houses" I wonder how it could benefit what I see as a far more important area of architecture/building which is retrofitting existing buildings.
How can 3D-H help this neighborhood to flourish?
I'm not joking, I'm asking seriously: what are the applications for 3D-H to help renovate existing infrastructure and thus salvage the enormous amounts of embodied energy in our already-built cities?
liberty, I don't know anything about this 3d-h, but I have to ask (if only because I was talking about it with my students this morning on a field trip): what's the greater problem: the building architecture or the urban planning?
I always think the urban planning problems trump individual architectural details every time when we speak about overall quality of life for the inhabitants. sure, poorly designed spaces (habitats, working environments, transportation centers of all ilk) tend to irk the users, but rarely leave them destitute (hence the phrase "wrong side of the tracks")?
who has the more important job, the architect or someone else involved with organizing the general space/region?
Absolutely agreed. And urban planning as instituted can, I think, typically be traced back to political favors/games moreso than to good or bad urban design. Which is one reason architects feel so powerless.
I'm sorry, interesting topic now but I have to get back to work.
in the words of liberty bell: every architecture design problem is an urban design problem. or something like that.
"I wonder how it could benefit what I see as a far more important area of architecture/building which is retrofitting existing buildings."
Any ; ---- 3D-H will provide a part house or a complete structure , it will smooth under your demands for an earthquake safer building ,but I guess that if it was used, it soon would deliver the new architecture , you in 500 years would see, as how you envision today's various building structures.
3D-H uses one material for delivering anything and it will plaster in fine , replacing even huge building sections but, sorry and sorry again ,it also will make something far way better, than what it could be projected to support ,beside on it's own it realy do put up an answer to the challance.
"How can 3D-H help this neighborhood to flourish?"
I can't tell you unless you realise that it is simply a new way to put things together, that it ask a 3D solid modeler and a wish to earn a mountain of money , --- 3D-H is just a new perception of the build works a lot of relevant new jobs and a different attitude to the call when the man cry out for a new house for him and his family.
that's a pretty neighborhood, and i'm being serious, where is that?
I'm guessing Philadelphia, looks like typical dirty Philly streets to me.
Do you think the house burn to the ground because the stair didn't meet code?
I grew up in what can't be described as slum --- and I see those who had the guts to get it torn down as the real hero's of architecture. Some places simply do to much harm to who live there, but it is allway's the decay, the wear down, what this did to the people living there ,that propell it to expand itself --- why then ,why shuld it be so bad ,that a new way to put things together, can replace even what's there and in new sound materials and plumbing problems solved, at a third the cost and make a house that will last so much longer, before decay again make it cheap, to restore an intire building ,design the houses so the rats will rather leave than try their luck where decayed houses and forgotten secrets are simply gone.
excellent question, chili.
stairs not meeting code could possibly be symptomatic of other, more extensive or rampant problems.
houses burn to the ground. there's obviously an economic threshold of responsibility...where do we, as a society of architects and planners, nay, CITIZENS, make the choice based on the opportunity cost of making something that much safer, that much better...like seat belts. We could probably outfit everyday cars with the safety equipment surpassing NASCAR, but the law of diminishing returns, on the scale of an entire population DRIVING the safe cars versus individuals able to AFFORD the safe cars, kicks in. Same with architecture...bildings aren't rated for fire at, say, 4 days, and code doesn't accomodate for that. Law of Diminishing returns.
Point is (and I promise there might just be a point in here somewhere...I think), code and zoning directly affect the general socieconomic tenor of an area in a way that can be quite obviously seen. People are poorer, things are built worse (and not up to code, to the fault of the designer, the inspector, the developer, WHOEVER), no one cares.
So maybe not BECAUSE the stairs didn't meet code did the building burn...but the uncompliant stairs could belie the greater problem as to why the building burned.
or, the building could have just caught on fire.
it's official. I had no point.
Assuming that is Philadelphia, those buidling could have been built before code regulations.
But I like where you were going. Very insightful.
Yeah that is Philadelphia, the Kensington Area, the blue structure rising up in the left hand side of the Picture is The El track. I cant really make out the sign off in the distance but if it is where I think it is, You could pan the camera to the left a few degrees and see my street.
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