I am currently lucky enough to be working my dream job at an amazing architecture firm in my small town and feel a million times blessed to have it, especially being it is a small firm in a small time in these hard times. I have been working here for 6 months now and am questioning my competency in regards to architecture and want to feel out how everyone else may have felt when they were fairly new to the real world of architecture.
I received my Master's of Architecture in 2008 and worked for a year and a half at a large firm in a big city before I left to live where I wanted to live. While I was working there, at times I felt a little unprepared or at minimum unqualified, but after a little less than a year, I felt I had it down and could handle everything pretty well.
After I moved, I worked doing whatever I could for a couple of years (some small architecture jobs, landscaping, etc) until I found Dream Job and felt I was fairly capable doing other work. I don't know if it is just high personal expectations or what, but I feel everything I have touched so far has had major issues or forgotten items, most of which I should have caught or prevented. I feel after finally getting up to par at my first job, I should have been able to learn the new standards, expectations, duties and requirements by now and I'm worried I'm going to get canned or that maybe I picked the wrong profession.
I am currently putting together tools to help me stay organized and keep my responsibilities organized and checked. I haven't been reprimanded or even had these things discussed yet, but I don't know what the standard protocol for these things in small firms is. My boss is a great guy and I feel I have a good relationship with him but I also feel one of the partners may be frustrated with my mistakes.
Anyone have thoughts on how long new people are expected to get up to snuff at a new job or if I might have chosen the wrong path? All help, experiences or thoughts are appreciated.
We all make (what later appear to be silly) mistakes during the early stages our careers -- the trick is to learn from your errors and not keep making the same mistake(s) over and over again.
We make mistakes in the later part of our careers too :)
I think the fact you feel bad about making mistakes and want to fix them and do better is a good thing. Just slow down if you have to, double check what you're doing, and do your best to learn from what you've missed. Tools and organizing and such to do better is a good idea. I would think as long as you do your best to identify and fix whatever you're doing wrong, you'll be fine.
if you're in a small firm, it may be that things you do are not getting checked well enough by others. in larger firms, it's easier to have the QC layers that smaller firms often can't afford. so, don't think of it as just you: your office needs to provide appropriate checking/quality control processes. you may make mistakes; you may catch mistakes of others.
I mad tons of mistakes for years - honestly I think it's probably the only way to learn, in this profession. There are so incredibly many things that go into a drawing set that have nothing to do with your education - I mean every little detail. Architects have to be actual MASTERS of detail, and unfortunately it takes a long long time to get to that point. If you're lucky (and I was) you have a forgiving employer who understands the process and actively guides you through it, helping you to remember things and teaching you tips and tricks along the way. Also, it helps if you don't actually make any REAL big mistakes - like things that would actually harm the people in the building or, less important of course, the overall design aesthetic. Thankfully I wasn't in that territory - they were just small mistakes, and hopefully you're in the same point.
The other thing I'll tell you is: take copious notes, and arrange them in a form that you can reference later. I started building my own personal "reference file" and have added to it ever since - to this day, even. Plus I started building checklists and have completely converted to a believe in their power. Checklists are a huge necessity. Write down every step of everything you need to check over in your drawing set before it goes out the door. Write up a list of everything you need to check at the job site on any given visit during a given stage of construction. Write up checklists for client interaction: did I send a reminder? did I send a thank you? did I send the bill? And then input all this into your calendars, so you have actual bells dinging to remind you to do things. All this will help, along with your copious reference notes. And DO NOT HESITATE to lean on older architects. The only way you learn is by asking so many questions you feel like you're driving everyone nuts. But - as long as you PAY ATTENTION to the answers and don't ask the same question over and over again! - people understand that you need to do that to learn, and they won't get mad at you. Better to ask the question before-hand than to make the mistake because you didn't ask!
Also I agree with Steven Ward. Most firms I've been in were, sadly, lacking egregiously in quality control checks. I've seen so many sets walk out the door that the stamping principal hadn't even looked at since Design Development... no joke. (Due to their own desire not to bother.) If you're in THIS situation, then you may need to talk to your boss.
Also, beware the "rush rush rush we have to get this out the door!" issue. If you feel you're being pushed too fast to do a good job, stop right away and go talk to your Project Manager. I was lucky and worked for an extremely nurturing firm and a caring set of principals who truly wanted me to take the time to learn - which I've since realized is pretty rare in this field - so the situation I'm describing from my own history might be different from yours. But you do need to realize you have a responsibility to your clients as well as yourself to put the brakes on if you feel like you're being pushed into something too quickly to do a good job.
If you are in a panic mode and you are "forced to submit" and there are errors and the PA fails to redline it during the final check set review - you will be held responsible by your PA
Wow xenakis you must have worked for a supremely shitty place. Any mistake made by someone working under the PA is the PA's responsibility - that's how leadership works. The higher you rise, the more responsible you are for the folks underneath you. If your firm didn't follow that then it was not worth working for. (Sadly I know there are lots of crappy, poorly managed architecture firms out there...)
You should always strive for zero mistakes, but hold yourself accountable for the ones you do make. You may make a mistake that costs your firm $3000, but if you made them $20k on the project and maintained a good client relationship, they're still ahead of the game.
One other thought is that people remember what you've done lately. If you make a mistake, they won't like it, but if you take accountability to fix it, that's a big positive, and their most recent memory will be "that's the guy that fixed the problem". Avoiding responsibility and passing blame is one of the most common ways we waste time & money in our industry.
to the OP: I understand you.. I've worked for a few firms now and always feel they'd axe me without any hesitation. The pressure to perform, meet deadlines, learn new protocols/software, new to the work industry etc - All contribute to one making some mistakes. School and a real job can be quite different. My advice is to slow down in whatever you do, and take more time to think. A good advice one of my first mentors I worked with is, "Every line you draw matters, so think about what you're putting in or removing. Its better to have employees who work slowly and are thoughtful, than ones who rush things and end up doing sloppy work."
From personal experience, I've felt that PA's are usually understanding and eager to teach and guide a new employee. Its the other senior employees working under the PA, those who've been given some responsibility to take care of the new employee, that are out to eat you. Most care about their ass and are trying to work up the ladder. They wouldn't hesitate to throw one under the bus, especially if its a new employee, if it means saving or making themselves look good.
to Mantaray: Yes, ofcourse any mistake made by someone working under the PA is the PA's responsibility. However, on any big project a PA has a lot to deal with and he/she depends and counts on competent workers under his/her belt to get certain tasks right, especially if they aren't major issues that require his verification. If a worker can't do that much, you bet he/she is going to give in a poor review or even axe the employee when time comes.
Thanks everyone for all the support. I put together a spreadsheet of all of the tasks associated with every job, including dates the tasks were accomplished and the method of distribution, deadlines, that kind of thing. I included hyperlinks to open associated documents right from the spreadsheet so everything is in one place. It has already helped a lot in just one day (at the very least, it made me feel a lot more in control and sure of the information). The mistakes have not been major and I have been able to come up with new solutions to a lot of them, I just sometimes feel like I should know how to prevent this kind of thing by now, but that's pretty unrealistic as I'm learning from everyone's posts. It's nice to know that others have had the same experience and I'm feeling good about where I'm at right now in my career. :D
Vivaliv... Don't be too hard on yourself. It is always more demanding and challenging working for a small firm than a large firm where everything seems to be organized and there are different people and departments that specialize in different stages of a project. Just stick with it. You are in a better situation to learn much more working for a small firm because you have the responsibility to do almost every task. During my school internships, many students tried to seek out jobs with small firms, some ranging from anywhere between 3 to 7 people at most, so they'd get more responsibiilities.
And you're doing well already by making a list of all your required tasks. Always update them daily, prioritize which tasks need to be done first, which ones can wait.. Use that notebook to write down comments/requests from PA/to do lists and anything else you can. One can only remember so much with their own mind before reaching burnout. Save that little brain power you have each day to do the thinking tasks and drawing etc. Leave others in your spreadsheet/list.
QC is really important. we had same system at my first office and try to do the same now i am in charge of own small firm, but i admit it is not easy when we are busy. But it has to be done. try to make the time to do reviews of drawings, schedules and so on. Usually if its just one person checking things will get through.
as long as you are learning from your mistakes and they are not overly large i think it is a normal part of the process.
what xenaxis describes is ridiculous. The PA is in charge and it is the PA's job to organize the project so that errors are caught and managed, before during and after. That is the job description. Personal empowerment from some self-help prickster is not a substitute for personal (and more importantly, Professional) responsibility.
I wish project architects looked over projects! They simply don't. Early in my career I a lot of responsibility and little to no oversight, which resulted in the collapse of a non-structural component (no one was hurt) and a major in-wall moisture problem among other things. I became overly cautious because of it, and can be quite diligent which is good.
One last thought I had: In my early career, I actually left a couple of firms because I did not feel they adequately supported my growth and development. If you feel like you're getting the room you need to learn by doing, and the support structure is in place to catch any of your mistakes and help you learn from them, then you're in a good place. But I also needed to talk with my superiors in certain instances and express what I hoped they would help me with, AND how I was working toward accomplishing it. That is to say: this conversation that we're having here in this thread, you might want to think about having with your PM. Acknowledging that you're making mistakes but at the same time demonstrating how you're learning from them and how you're adapting yourself so that fewer mistakes will be made in the future is a positive thing, and shows that you're a good, young employee. If the PM values you, they can then chime in with their own suggestions for you - and also, it's best for your PM to be aware that you're feeling this way, and you're working on it - so they can adjust accordingly (give you extra help and/or extra QC, etc.)
I'd be careful when going to your boss - good bosses will help you with making sure you're covering everything and meeting your deadlines - bad bosses, upon hearing your concerns, will give you smaller and smaller chunks and tell you exactly how long something is supposed to take. Sadly - most people in this profession veer toward the latter - but it sounds like you're working for someone who is giving you a lot of leeway.
Jul 13, 12 9:24 am ·
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Question of Competency
Hi All,
I am currently lucky enough to be working my dream job at an amazing architecture firm in my small town and feel a million times blessed to have it, especially being it is a small firm in a small time in these hard times. I have been working here for 6 months now and am questioning my competency in regards to architecture and want to feel out how everyone else may have felt when they were fairly new to the real world of architecture.
I received my Master's of Architecture in 2008 and worked for a year and a half at a large firm in a big city before I left to live where I wanted to live. While I was working there, at times I felt a little unprepared or at minimum unqualified, but after a little less than a year, I felt I had it down and could handle everything pretty well.
After I moved, I worked doing whatever I could for a couple of years (some small architecture jobs, landscaping, etc) until I found Dream Job and felt I was fairly capable doing other work. I don't know if it is just high personal expectations or what, but I feel everything I have touched so far has had major issues or forgotten items, most of which I should have caught or prevented. I feel after finally getting up to par at my first job, I should have been able to learn the new standards, expectations, duties and requirements by now and I'm worried I'm going to get canned or that maybe I picked the wrong profession.
I am currently putting together tools to help me stay organized and keep my responsibilities organized and checked. I haven't been reprimanded or even had these things discussed yet, but I don't know what the standard protocol for these things in small firms is. My boss is a great guy and I feel I have a good relationship with him but I also feel one of the partners may be frustrated with my mistakes.
Anyone have thoughts on how long new people are expected to get up to snuff at a new job or if I might have chosen the wrong path? All help, experiences or thoughts are appreciated.
We all make (what later appear to be silly) mistakes during the early stages our careers -- the trick is to learn from your errors and not keep making the same mistake(s) over and over again.
It's called "practice" for a reason !
We make mistakes in the later part of our careers too :)
I think the fact you feel bad about making mistakes and want to fix them and do better is a good thing. Just slow down if you have to, double check what you're doing, and do your best to learn from what you've missed. Tools and organizing and such to do better is a good idea. I would think as long as you do your best to identify and fix whatever you're doing wrong, you'll be fine.
good luck.
@curt: "We make mistakes in the later part of our careers too :)"
True -- but hopefully they're not basic mistakes arising from inexperience.
if you're in a small firm, it may be that things you do are not getting checked well enough by others. in larger firms, it's easier to have the QC layers that smaller firms often can't afford. so, don't think of it as just you: your office needs to provide appropriate checking/quality control processes. you may make mistakes; you may catch mistakes of others.
I mad tons of mistakes for years - honestly I think it's probably the only way to learn, in this profession. There are so incredibly many things that go into a drawing set that have nothing to do with your education - I mean every little detail. Architects have to be actual MASTERS of detail, and unfortunately it takes a long long time to get to that point. If you're lucky (and I was) you have a forgiving employer who understands the process and actively guides you through it, helping you to remember things and teaching you tips and tricks along the way. Also, it helps if you don't actually make any REAL big mistakes - like things that would actually harm the people in the building or, less important of course, the overall design aesthetic. Thankfully I wasn't in that territory - they were just small mistakes, and hopefully you're in the same point.
The other thing I'll tell you is: take copious notes, and arrange them in a form that you can reference later. I started building my own personal "reference file" and have added to it ever since - to this day, even. Plus I started building checklists and have completely converted to a believe in their power. Checklists are a huge necessity. Write down every step of everything you need to check over in your drawing set before it goes out the door. Write up a list of everything you need to check at the job site on any given visit during a given stage of construction. Write up checklists for client interaction: did I send a reminder? did I send a thank you? did I send the bill? And then input all this into your calendars, so you have actual bells dinging to remind you to do things. All this will help, along with your copious reference notes. And DO NOT HESITATE to lean on older architects. The only way you learn is by asking so many questions you feel like you're driving everyone nuts. But - as long as you PAY ATTENTION to the answers and don't ask the same question over and over again! - people understand that you need to do that to learn, and they won't get mad at you. Better to ask the question before-hand than to make the mistake because you didn't ask!
In my first job they had a 3 strikes rule - three mistakes and your's out - I lasted 4 months
Also I agree with Steven Ward. Most firms I've been in were, sadly, lacking egregiously in quality control checks. I've seen so many sets walk out the door that the stamping principal hadn't even looked at since Design Development... no joke. (Due to their own desire not to bother.) If you're in THIS situation, then you may need to talk to your boss.
Also, beware the "rush rush rush we have to get this out the door!" issue. If you feel you're being pushed too fast to do a good job, stop right away and go talk to your Project Manager. I was lucky and worked for an extremely nurturing firm and a caring set of principals who truly wanted me to take the time to learn - which I've since realized is pretty rare in this field - so the situation I'm describing from my own history might be different from yours. But you do need to realize you have a responsibility to your clients as well as yourself to put the brakes on if you feel like you're being pushed into something too quickly to do a good job.
Ha, I love how I rushed through my previous answer and made a bunch of typos. Nice job mantaray.
If you are in a panic mode and you are "forced to submit" and there are errors and the PA fails to redline it during the final check set review - you will be held responsible by your PA
"why didn't you notice it - you lack awareness"
ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION
Wow xenakis you must have worked for a supremely shitty place. Any mistake made by someone working under the PA is the PA's responsibility - that's how leadership works. The higher you rise, the more responsible you are for the folks underneath you. If your firm didn't follow that then it was not worth working for. (Sadly I know there are lots of crappy, poorly managed architecture firms out there...)
You should always strive for zero mistakes, but hold yourself accountable for the ones you do make. You may make a mistake that costs your firm $3000, but if you made them $20k on the project and maintained a good client relationship, they're still ahead of the game.
One other thought is that people remember what you've done lately. If you make a mistake, they won't like it, but if you take accountability to fix it, that's a big positive, and their most recent memory will be "that's the guy that fixed the problem". Avoiding responsibility and passing blame is one of the most common ways we waste time & money in our industry.
mantaray
we could see Tony Robbins house from out the window - an my PA told me to read his books and listen to his CDs - bought a whole box of them
to the OP: I understand you.. I've worked for a few firms now and always feel they'd axe me without any hesitation. The pressure to perform, meet deadlines, learn new protocols/software, new to the work industry etc - All contribute to one making some mistakes. School and a real job can be quite different. My advice is to slow down in whatever you do, and take more time to think. A good advice one of my first mentors I worked with is, "Every line you draw matters, so think about what you're putting in or removing. Its better to have employees who work slowly and are thoughtful, than ones who rush things and end up doing sloppy work."
From personal experience, I've felt that PA's are usually understanding and eager to teach and guide a new employee. Its the other senior employees working under the PA, those who've been given some responsibility to take care of the new employee, that are out to eat you. Most care about their ass and are trying to work up the ladder. They wouldn't hesitate to throw one under the bus, especially if its a new employee, if it means saving or making themselves look good.
to Mantaray: Yes, ofcourse any mistake made by someone working under the PA is the PA's responsibility. However, on any big project a PA has a lot to deal with and he/she depends and counts on competent workers under his/her belt to get certain tasks right, especially if they aren't major issues that require his verification. If a worker can't do that much, you bet he/she is going to give in a poor review or even axe the employee when time comes.
Thanks everyone for all the support. I put together a spreadsheet of all of the tasks associated with every job, including dates the tasks were accomplished and the method of distribution, deadlines, that kind of thing. I included hyperlinks to open associated documents right from the spreadsheet so everything is in one place. It has already helped a lot in just one day (at the very least, it made me feel a lot more in control and sure of the information). The mistakes have not been major and I have been able to come up with new solutions to a lot of them, I just sometimes feel like I should know how to prevent this kind of thing by now, but that's pretty unrealistic as I'm learning from everyone's posts. It's nice to know that others have had the same experience and I'm feeling good about where I'm at right now in my career. :D
Vivaliv... Don't be too hard on yourself. It is always more demanding and challenging working for a small firm than a large firm where everything seems to be organized and there are different people and departments that specialize in different stages of a project. Just stick with it. You are in a better situation to learn much more working for a small firm because you have the responsibility to do almost every task. During my school internships, many students tried to seek out jobs with small firms, some ranging from anywhere between 3 to 7 people at most, so they'd get more responsibiilities.
And you're doing well already by making a list of all your required tasks. Always update them daily, prioritize which tasks need to be done first, which ones can wait.. Use that notebook to write down comments/requests from PA/to do lists and anything else you can. One can only remember so much with their own mind before reaching burnout. Save that little brain power you have each day to do the thinking tasks and drawing etc. Leave others in your spreadsheet/list.
QC is really important. we had same system at my first office and try to do the same now i am in charge of own small firm, but i admit it is not easy when we are busy. But it has to be done. try to make the time to do reviews of drawings, schedules and so on. Usually if its just one person checking things will get through.
as long as you are learning from your mistakes and they are not overly large i think it is a normal part of the process.
what xenaxis describes is ridiculous. The PA is in charge and it is the PA's job to organize the project so that errors are caught and managed, before during and after. That is the job description. Personal empowerment from some self-help prickster is not a substitute for personal (and more importantly, Professional) responsibility.
People make mistakes
I wish project architects looked over projects! They simply don't. Early in my career I a lot of responsibility and little to no oversight, which resulted in the collapse of a non-structural component (no one was hurt) and a major in-wall moisture problem among other things. I became overly cautious because of it, and can be quite diligent which is good.
Wow, there is no there - scary. I am always aghast at how many firms don't check over their employees' work.
accesskb, I agree.
Copious to-do lists are definitely a necessity.
One last thought I had: In my early career, I actually left a couple of firms because I did not feel they adequately supported my growth and development. If you feel like you're getting the room you need to learn by doing, and the support structure is in place to catch any of your mistakes and help you learn from them, then you're in a good place. But I also needed to talk with my superiors in certain instances and express what I hoped they would help me with, AND how I was working toward accomplishing it. That is to say: this conversation that we're having here in this thread, you might want to think about having with your PM. Acknowledging that you're making mistakes but at the same time demonstrating how you're learning from them and how you're adapting yourself so that fewer mistakes will be made in the future is a positive thing, and shows that you're a good, young employee. If the PM values you, they can then chime in with their own suggestions for you - and also, it's best for your PM to be aware that you're feeling this way, and you're working on it - so they can adjust accordingly (give you extra help and/or extra QC, etc.)
I'd be careful when going to your boss - good bosses will help you with making sure you're covering everything and meeting your deadlines - bad bosses, upon hearing your concerns, will give you smaller and smaller chunks and tell you exactly how long something is supposed to take. Sadly - most people in this profession veer toward the latter - but it sounds like you're working for someone who is giving you a lot of leeway.
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