NOTHING makes me want to write angry letters like this article. It's totally disgusting.
The synopsis is that basically the DePauw chapter of the Delta Zeta sorority thought it wasn't doing enough to increase membership, so it interviewed all 35 chapter members about their "commitment" to recruitment - and promptly evicted the 23 girls who didn't fit the "sorority archetype". Many of them were math and science majors.
I mean, no wonder young women are still intimidated to enter the math and science fields...... if people are treating women like this in the 21st century?
An excerpt from the article:
'The 23 members included every woman who was overweight. They also included the only black, Korean and Vietnamese members. The dozen students allowed to stay were slender and popular with fraternity men — conventionally pretty women the sorority hoped could attract new recruits. Six of the 12 were so infuriated they quit.
“Virtually everyone who didn’t fit a certain sorority member archetype was told to leave,” said Kate Holloway, a senior who withdrew from the chapter during its reorganization.'
*I have no use for the Greek system whatsoever. The only reason I like APX is because it's co-ed. Does it really have any use anymore?
Typical. I agree that the Greek system is seriously flawed. It surprisingly came in handy when employed by or meeting former house members.. but these guys were old school.. from the golden age.... wheni would have to think there was still some decorum in the greek system. They were all decent people. I cant imagine the same class of people coming from the current greek system. Only type of people coming out now are those you see on all the shit dating shows.
I was kicked out of my fraternity after a "weeding out" process consisting of interviews with all the members. I got the pink slip even though in my meeting i was commended for:
1. Always paying my dues and rent on time.
2. Not doing drugs in the house or at any other fraternity house.
3. Not breaking anything in the house ( a common problem in a house full of meatheads)
4. Having one of the highest GPA's of the entire house.
I guess they didnt like the fact that i never came to the weekly meetings since i was always in studio.
I am still weeping to this day. No.. wait... just stopped.
Wow OF, you are old school and that, despite the cruelty is totally awesome. Wish we could do stuff like that at my school, maybe I should go to grad school at proper state school where stuff like that can happen.
As far as the greek system is concerned, as a former member of it I have to say it isn't all it made out to be.
"The dozen students allowed to stay were slender and popular with fraternity men..."
hmmm...do we have to guess what "...popular with the fraternity men..." means?
i say the ones that were booted actually got the better end of the deal. now they don't have to waste their time with such shit hole institutions and can get back to studying and saving the world. besides bing drinking and eating is soooo 1994.
OldFogey, that reminds me of my "water balloon sling shot" story I told a while back. Except we were equal opportunity attackers and our targets involved party goers on a Friday night as well as freshmen architecture students.
But I digress.
monkeyboy, I didn't remember that you were in a fraternity. I guess these Greek people will come up with any reason under the sun to exclude people. The Delta Zeta women didn't even try to disguise their reasoning.....good luck to them on not getting sued. I hope they get shut down.
i only knew about 10 people in a frat while in arch school...... to each his own but we had a crew anyways and didnt need the rental buddy system.......
I've never understood the appeal of the Greek system. It's a mystery to me... I mean, I don't hate it, my school didn't have it, always did fine without it. I can understand wanting to be a member if you got cheaper housing, but not if that's negated by dues!
That said, it also seems that belonging to a sorority/fraternity is not a human right or a civil right. They are exclusionary by nature and I don't see why intelligent women - genuinely intelligent women with their priorities straight - would be put off of math, science, or anything else they liked, just because they're excluded from a sorority. Maybe it's a part of campus culture I simply don't understand, though. I do agree that if they're subsidized by the school itself, especially a public school, these groups should have to adhere to the standard nondiscrimination policies. It just seems like that would be an impossible thing to regulate.
Yes, there is nothing that gives you the right to belong to a sorority or fraternity, except their invitation to bid, completion of the pledge process and their initiation. Once you have been initiated, unless you fuck up in some big way (1.8 GPA, complete lack of participation, fights, law breaking), that's it. You're in. This stuff pisses me off. I don't see what gives them the right to kick out girls that have done nothing wrong, who are initiated members. Anyway, do you think that looks great to recruits? My reaction would be that I wouldn't want to be a part of that house because they might just go and kick me out after a couple of years for no reason.
I've got to come clean here than I'm an Archi (APX), so I have strong feelings about brotherhood. Thank you, DubK, for excluding us from your rant.
C'mon it's college and college kids are known to do stupid, ignorant crap like this. It's not like you're obligated to be in a frat/sorority.
Frats/sororities are simply social clicks with agendas, and while some are honorable and have long traditions, some may well be all about looks and sex. They have all the right to do that if they want. If you have a problem with certain greek houses, you ignore them. I got through college fine without any association with any frat. Greek houses are kids' last chance at just being young, stupid kids. Let them be.
betadinesutures,
I totally see where you're coming from. However, a frat/sorority that is sexist/racist? Sounds kinda redundant to me. Once again, that's why they exist. You have no "right" to be in any of these groups. There is no law that says those Asian thugs standing around the curb in their wife-beaters next to their souped up civics are required to accept you as their friend.
nope, you don't have a right, but once accepted i think there maybe issues and keep in mind they cannot have discriminatory policies in a frat/sorority at a public university. you might say well that is the nature of those institutions, but i will claim they can allow or dis-allow whomever they want, barring racist/sexist/homophobic exclusions.
Most Universities have a very clear arms length relationship with greek organizations to distance themselves from liability for the alchohol and hazing problems which peaked in the 80's and early 90's. Since in most cases Universities don't subsidize or fund the groups, but only allow them to use campus facilities (much like other non-university community organizations) it would likely be very difficult for them to impose their (quite just) anti-discrimination policies on offending organizations.
Each organization needs to be judged on its own merits - allegations of discrimination have been levelled at quite a few univeristy sponsored student Marching Bands and religious organizations on college campuses over the years as well. Any organization made up of 80 twenty-year olds has the ample opportunity to behave like jerks.
yes, but if their facilities are on campus, they may have to relocate off campus. that and if they hope to utilize the campus facilities for any activities they'd be denied.
Interestingly enough, it looks like the national DZ people aren't particularly pleased either - a letter from the Depauw president to the national officials indicates that the DZ folks may be considering disbanding the chapter and recolonizing it. Seems fair enough.
But it was the national DZ officers that did the damage to begin with....and the damage is already done. Recolonizing would just give them the opportunity to start fresh with a new batch of fembots. The only thing that will work at this point is for the college community at large to shame the chapter into shutting down, if they aren't already on their way there through a lack of new recruits.
Also, if this sorority actually has physical/racial/weight requirements written into their membership (if they've gotten around all the university red tape and what not), doesn't this put them at the same level as, say, the KKK? And if they don't, well, then the girls could sue, i would say. I'm not naturally a litigious person but this sounds like a fun group to try to take money from.....
Nor alcohol at all. After all, it's a Quaker school.
Any way, back to the DZ business, I think shame is the best way to deal with this. An institution who thinks about doing things like this can't be regarded very highly in the community - one that does it may as well just do themselves in.
it's things like this that make me reluctant to be a founder of my sorority at my school. we're nothing like the stereotypical sorority but i feel like people assume things about me just because i wear greek letters.
I would just like to know if any of you are women. Sounds like you are all ex-frat guys into the voyeurism of it all.
Not even sure why I'm joining this thread, just wanted to put out my 2 cents that first of all, these women were stupid to ever think of joining a sorority, yes the need to conform looms large but really, why?
and second they really should have had some idea what they were getting into if they really were smart "math and science" majors. The world of sororities seems to fit the stereotype to a T, nothing has changed, what did they expect?
And is anyone surprised?
Arcanna- as mentioned above, I am a fraternity member, but I am a woman. There are a very small amount of co-ed professional fraternities out there, including one for archi-interns. We had a house on fraternity row, but guys & girls both lived there, and we generally had a good time laughing at the antics the rest of the row got up too.
I am definitely a woman, and I'd have to say I really disagree with Arcanna. My sorority happens to be a professional/social sorority for engineering and technical sciences. Joining was not about conforming at all, but more about being part of a group where I gained lots of opportunities and positive experiences. There are sororities out there that do fit the stereotype, but not all of them do, so to claim that the women were stupid to consider joining a sorority doesn't really seem fair to me.
i'm sorry, but arcana you're a dope. they should have known what they were getting in to? if they'd had known what they were getting in to, would they have been allowed to join anyway? the girls club changed the rules AFTER they became members and not before. what surprises me is how stupid that girls club home office was, why could they not figure out a way to leverage the strengths of this chapter like these guys could?
I was being sarcastic - geez. Then again, I don't disagree with their ability to do this. They are a private organization and should be free to discriminate. If their image of a sorority is a flock of groupthink hotties, so be it. As people have already said, the excluded girls are probably better off.
I've been laughing about this all morning mostly because there was a DZ chapter at a nearby college in the same town as my undergrad alma. We joked about that chapter back then because they were a group of fat cows and quite loose with their morals. Everyone knew that if you struck out with the good looking women at the bars there'd always be a Delta Zeta to take home. Their chapter never got the shake-up probably because being bar whores made them popular and made up for their lack of beauty.
I DO disagree with their right to discriminate, at least at the time they chose to do so. Any discrimination should be conducted at or prior to the time of bidding and pledging the girls. Once someone is initiated as a sister or brother of DZ, DDD, SAE, SigEp, TKE, or whatever, if they are not breaking any rules, then how can you kick them out? To my mind, once they're in they're in until they fuck it up. You shouldn't just be able to turn around once they've paid thousands of dollars (and yes, most of the big sororities have dues in the thousands per semester), and say "hmmm, we've changed our mind. You're just not DZ material."
I saw Frank Zappa at Smith College back in the 70's. Now that was some concert. I was surprised he wasn't tossed off the stage during his performance. It was a Zappa Crappa of a concert.
i was almost killed with five of my friends going to see zappa at the morris civic auditorium in south bend in 1976. we were driving on a two lane highway and the asshole that was driving almost rearended a car that was turning left instead he slammed on the breaks swerved into a gravel parking lot of some store went back onto the highway into the opposing lane and then into the shoulder of the opposing lane and then regained control and drove to the concert. yes, i was driving.
this is messed up. i'm speechless, but remember my own experiences with rush - something i did because a few of my cousins were in sororities and i didn't really know what i was getting into and just thought i'd try it out. I dropped out after a few days when i realized it wasn't for me.
BUT the house that I remember the best WAS the delta zeta - they were the nicest, most sincere (probably not the skinniest or blondest) and they were one of 3 that asked me to join. The talks I had with the DZ girls during rush weren't about how the frat boys would come by and serenade them (gag) or how they could trade clothes with their sisters and would go to the mall together (who cares?) or that they had the best homecoming float 5 years running etc, but instead we had real conversations about academics, interests, what being in the house could do for me (besides get me drunk). So for me, we actually HAD a conversation instead of me sitting there going "OMIGOSH, get away from me you dumb broad" like I did at most houses. Wow, I can picutre myself sitting on the DZ couch right now, thinking, if i DID join a sorority, this would be it. So glad I didn't. This is embarrassing. Will it spread to other chapters? Why just this school? Congrats to the 6 girls who left on their own.
but rationalist...they did fuck it up. Those girls were too fat, too ugly or too smart. All obviously grounds for expulsion from DZ. How dare they think of joining a sorority for anything other than being a peice of meat for the local fraternity guys.
We will give nothing back to the academic community. As well as provide no public service of any kind. This much I promise you.
They were smart and/or ugly when they were bid. Fat is something that could have developed afterwards, but I would much rather see the sisters of DZ commit to helping their heftier sister live more healthfully than kick them out when they already have a problem.
betadinesutures-
I'm sorry, but I'm a dope? No, if they knew what they were getting into, they would have had no motivation to join. What are you talking about, "the girls club changed the rules AFTER they became members and not before." What rules? the rules that you have to be a sex object? Those were always in place.
This is really a feminist issue about society forcing women to be sex objects, I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not they were smart or recruiting new members.
And none of them looked fat to me.
Glad to see there are other women in this discussion however I am not convinced there are any redeeming qualities in the Greek system whatsoever.
why is being "heftier" a problem? it's only a problem if there is a health problem, and you can be "hefty" and still be healthy.
these women are the winners in this situation. they'll never get back in to the sorority, and that's OK, because unlike other instances of discrimination...this one is happening in the age of the internet, and the sorority in question will die out, surely.
hopefully what this does is put into relief the sheer stupidity of the greek system, and perhaps commence its demise.
arcanna, if the rules were already in place, then pray tell, how the fuck did they get in?
hey, i am no fan of any organization that endorses date rape, binge drinking and other bs, but i do take note that there are greek societies - typically co-ed - that are above this kind of horseshit.
the rules evidently were implemented and thus they were asked to leave. again after they'd already been members.
why is this RonJon allowed to post here? go away shit stirrer.
Honestly, I would have gotten rid of the dumbass long ago. It's not a open community, no one's entitled to fairness on a chat board.
While at the University I took an economics class. It was a basic one but the teacher was very demanding so He tells the call we are allowed to toss out one exam with a low grade at the end of the semester. So Here I am reading all the material and attending all the classes and when the grades go up wondering what the heck is going on. About half way thru the semester I discover this group of guys sitting behind me are all frat boys, and low an behold they unvail that they have every exam given in this class for the past years. So they just go over the exams and well as much as the proffessor mixes it up over the years it is usually just the order of the questions. So here they are all screaming along in the class and the proffessor decides he is going to be giving an exam just before a holiday and of course....everyone of these guys says well we will just skip the exam and toss the grade. Well I show up and this other older woman student and a few other isolated students, but the room is almost empty. The professor starts the hour with the statement, I didn't tell people they could skip the class and not take the exam and get it tossed. I said you can take the exams and toss your lowest score. He proceeded to take roll of everyone in the class, and all of a sudden all of our grades looked a hell of a lot better when you took the averages.
Ochana- that's why I chose to use the words "I would much rather see the sisters of DZ commit to helping their heftier sister live more healthfully". If more healthful living leads to slimness, so be it. If not, then they at least know that their sister is doing what she can to be healthy, and they haven't hurt her self-image by kicking her out for her weight, but instead actually shown that they were there for her.
Delta Zeta: The sorority that has no use for smart girls....
With "sisters" like these, who needs enemies?*
Sorority Evictions Raise Issue of Looks and Bias
NOTHING makes me want to write angry letters like this article. It's totally disgusting.
The synopsis is that basically the DePauw chapter of the Delta Zeta sorority thought it wasn't doing enough to increase membership, so it interviewed all 35 chapter members about their "commitment" to recruitment - and promptly evicted the 23 girls who didn't fit the "sorority archetype". Many of them were math and science majors.
I mean, no wonder young women are still intimidated to enter the math and science fields...... if people are treating women like this in the 21st century?
An excerpt from the article:
'The 23 members included every woman who was overweight. They also included the only black, Korean and Vietnamese members. The dozen students allowed to stay were slender and popular with fraternity men — conventionally pretty women the sorority hoped could attract new recruits. Six of the 12 were so infuriated they quit.
“Virtually everyone who didn’t fit a certain sorority member archetype was told to leave,” said Kate Holloway, a senior who withdrew from the chapter during its reorganization.'
*I have no use for the Greek system whatsoever. The only reason I like APX is because it's co-ed. Does it really have any use anymore?
Typical. I agree that the Greek system is seriously flawed. It surprisingly came in handy when employed by or meeting former house members.. but these guys were old school.. from the golden age.... wheni would have to think there was still some decorum in the greek system. They were all decent people. I cant imagine the same class of people coming from the current greek system. Only type of people coming out now are those you see on all the shit dating shows.
I was kicked out of my fraternity after a "weeding out" process consisting of interviews with all the members. I got the pink slip even though in my meeting i was commended for:
1. Always paying my dues and rent on time.
2. Not doing drugs in the house or at any other fraternity house.
3. Not breaking anything in the house ( a common problem in a house full of meatheads)
4. Having one of the highest GPA's of the entire house.
I guess they didnt like the fact that i never came to the weekly meetings since i was always in studio.
I am still weeping to this day. No.. wait... just stopped.
those 23 girls should say "fuck you then!"...
Wow OF, you are old school and that, despite the cruelty is totally awesome. Wish we could do stuff like that at my school, maybe I should go to grad school at proper state school where stuff like that can happen.
As far as the greek system is concerned, as a former member of it I have to say it isn't all it made out to be.
"The dozen students allowed to stay were slender and popular with fraternity men..."
hmmm...do we have to guess what "...popular with the fraternity men..." means?
i say the ones that were booted actually got the better end of the deal. now they don't have to waste their time with such shit hole institutions and can get back to studying and saving the world. besides bing drinking and eating is soooo 1994.
OldFogey, that reminds me of my "water balloon sling shot" story I told a while back. Except we were equal opportunity attackers and our targets involved party goers on a Friday night as well as freshmen architecture students.
But I digress.
monkeyboy, I didn't remember that you were in a fraternity. I guess these Greek people will come up with any reason under the sun to exclude people. The Delta Zeta women didn't even try to disguise their reasoning.....good luck to them on not getting sued. I hope they get shut down.
i only knew about 10 people in a frat while in arch school...... to each his own but we had a crew anyways and didnt need the rental buddy system.......
shorty crew....... arhhh arghhhhhhh.....
I've never understood the appeal of the Greek system. It's a mystery to me... I mean, I don't hate it, my school didn't have it, always did fine without it. I can understand wanting to be a member if you got cheaper housing, but not if that's negated by dues!
That said, it also seems that belonging to a sorority/fraternity is not a human right or a civil right. They are exclusionary by nature and I don't see why intelligent women - genuinely intelligent women with their priorities straight - would be put off of math, science, or anything else they liked, just because they're excluded from a sorority. Maybe it's a part of campus culture I simply don't understand, though. I do agree that if they're subsidized by the school itself, especially a public school, these groups should have to adhere to the standard nondiscrimination policies. It just seems like that would be an impossible thing to regulate.
Yes, there is nothing that gives you the right to belong to a sorority or fraternity, except their invitation to bid, completion of the pledge process and their initiation. Once you have been initiated, unless you fuck up in some big way (1.8 GPA, complete lack of participation, fights, law breaking), that's it. You're in. This stuff pisses me off. I don't see what gives them the right to kick out girls that have done nothing wrong, who are initiated members. Anyway, do you think that looks great to recruits? My reaction would be that I wouldn't want to be a part of that house because they might just go and kick me out after a couple of years for no reason.
I've got to come clean here than I'm an Archi (APX), so I have strong feelings about brotherhood. Thank you, DubK, for excluding us from your rant.
this college is in indiana and therefore not important, as it is in both a flyover state and a cowtown.
C'mon it's college and college kids are known to do stupid, ignorant crap like this. It's not like you're obligated to be in a frat/sorority.
Frats/sororities are simply social clicks with agendas, and while some are honorable and have long traditions, some may well be all about looks and sex. They have all the right to do that if they want. If you have a problem with certain greek houses, you ignore them. I got through college fine without any association with any frat. Greek houses are kids' last chance at just being young, stupid kids. Let them be.
sorry standaman, it's not kids, but the national chapter stepping in, adults acting like racist/sexist discriminatory children...way to go DZ!
maybe its cuz they were in this video. or maybe cuz they wuznt
^
^
betadinesutures,
I totally see where you're coming from. However, a frat/sorority that is sexist/racist? Sounds kinda redundant to me. Once again, that's why they exist. You have no "right" to be in any of these groups. There is no law that says those Asian thugs standing around the curb in their wife-beaters next to their souped up civics are required to accept you as their friend.
nope, you don't have a right, but once accepted i think there maybe issues and keep in mind they cannot have discriminatory policies in a frat/sorority at a public university. you might say well that is the nature of those institutions, but i will claim they can allow or dis-allow whomever they want, barring racist/sexist/homophobic exclusions.
Most Universities have a very clear arms length relationship with greek organizations to distance themselves from liability for the alchohol and hazing problems which peaked in the 80's and early 90's. Since in most cases Universities don't subsidize or fund the groups, but only allow them to use campus facilities (much like other non-university community organizations) it would likely be very difficult for them to impose their (quite just) anti-discrimination policies on offending organizations.
Each organization needs to be judged on its own merits - allegations of discrimination have been levelled at quite a few univeristy sponsored student Marching Bands and religious organizations on college campuses over the years as well. Any organization made up of 80 twenty-year olds has the ample opportunity to behave like jerks.
yes, but if their facilities are on campus, they may have to relocate off campus. that and if they hope to utilize the campus facilities for any activities they'd be denied.
Interestingly enough, it looks like the national DZ people aren't particularly pleased either - a letter from the Depauw president to the national officials indicates that the DZ folks may be considering disbanding the chapter and recolonizing it. Seems fair enough.
But it was the national DZ officers that did the damage to begin with....and the damage is already done. Recolonizing would just give them the opportunity to start fresh with a new batch of fembots. The only thing that will work at this point is for the college community at large to shame the chapter into shutting down, if they aren't already on their way there through a lack of new recruits.
Also, if this sorority actually has physical/racial/weight requirements written into their membership (if they've gotten around all the university red tape and what not), doesn't this put them at the same level as, say, the KKK? And if they don't, well, then the girls could sue, i would say. I'm not naturally a litigious person but this sounds like a fun group to try to take money from.....
earlham college also in flyover cowtown indiana does not have any greekness at their uni.
Nor alcohol at all. After all, it's a Quaker school.
Any way, back to the DZ business, I think shame is the best way to deal with this. An institution who thinks about doing things like this can't be regarded very highly in the community - one that does it may as well just do themselves in.
it's things like this that make me reluctant to be a founder of my sorority at my school. we're nothing like the stereotypical sorority but i feel like people assume things about me just because i wear greek letters.
blah. girls can be so dumb sometimes.
that redhead is cute...
A few of them are sporting cutey designer frames. I would hang out with them.
I just can't belive there all quakers......they look nothing like the guy on the oatmeal box.
the twins are cute too...
she can be in my zeta house...
I would just like to know if any of you are women. Sounds like you are all ex-frat guys into the voyeurism of it all.
Not even sure why I'm joining this thread, just wanted to put out my 2 cents that first of all, these women were stupid to ever think of joining a sorority, yes the need to conform looms large but really, why?
and second they really should have had some idea what they were getting into if they really were smart "math and science" majors. The world of sororities seems to fit the stereotype to a T, nothing has changed, what did they expect?
And is anyone surprised?
i am an ex frat guy and a woman. how's that for speaking from experience!!!
Stereotypes are for lazy minds that prefer broad generalizations to the diverse experience of real life.
And since urbanemaan suggested that s/he founded a chapter at her school, I suspect that she is a woman.
Arcanna- as mentioned above, I am a fraternity member, but I am a woman. There are a very small amount of co-ed professional fraternities out there, including one for archi-interns. We had a house on fraternity row, but guys & girls both lived there, and we generally had a good time laughing at the antics the rest of the row got up too.
I am a woman, and I don't go running around after sorority members. However, sorority membership is not a dealbreaker death-knell, either.
I am definitely a woman, and I'd have to say I really disagree with Arcanna. My sorority happens to be a professional/social sorority for engineering and technical sciences. Joining was not about conforming at all, but more about being part of a group where I gained lots of opportunities and positive experiences. There are sororities out there that do fit the stereotype, but not all of them do, so to claim that the women were stupid to consider joining a sorority doesn't really seem fair to me.
i'm sorry, but arcana you're a dope. they should have known what they were getting in to? if they'd had known what they were getting in to, would they have been allowed to join anyway? the girls club changed the rules AFTER they became members and not before. what surprises me is how stupid that girls club home office was, why could they not figure out a way to leverage the strengths of this chapter like these guys could
?
What's the big deal? Isn't the greek system elitist? Don't people want to join just to feel they are better than other people.
Well, the people they kicked out obviously weren't better...
You could say the same thing about Universites - but it wouldn't make it true.
I was being sarcastic - geez. Then again, I don't disagree with their ability to do this. They are a private organization and should be free to discriminate. If their image of a sorority is a flock of groupthink hotties, so be it. As people have already said, the excluded girls are probably better off.
I've been laughing about this all morning mostly because there was a DZ chapter at a nearby college in the same town as my undergrad alma. We joked about that chapter back then because they were a group of fat cows and quite loose with their morals. Everyone knew that if you struck out with the good looking women at the bars there'd always be a Delta Zeta to take home. Their chapter never got the shake-up probably because being bar whores made them popular and made up for their lack of beauty.
I DO disagree with their right to discriminate, at least at the time they chose to do so. Any discrimination should be conducted at or prior to the time of bidding and pledging the girls. Once someone is initiated as a sister or brother of DZ, DDD, SAE, SigEp, TKE, or whatever, if they are not breaking any rules, then how can you kick them out? To my mind, once they're in they're in until they fuck it up. You shouldn't just be able to turn around once they've paid thousands of dollars (and yes, most of the big sororities have dues in the thousands per semester), and say "hmmm, we've changed our mind. You're just not DZ material."
I saw Frank Zappa at Smith College back in the 70's. Now that was some concert. I was surprised he wasn't tossed off the stage during his performance. It was a Zappa Crappa of a concert.
i was almost killed with five of my friends going to see zappa at the morris civic auditorium in south bend in 1976. we were driving on a two lane highway and the asshole that was driving almost rearended a car that was turning left instead he slammed on the breaks swerved into a gravel parking lot of some store went back onto the highway into the opposing lane and then into the shoulder of the opposing lane and then regained control and drove to the concert. yes, i was driving.
this is messed up. i'm speechless, but remember my own experiences with rush - something i did because a few of my cousins were in sororities and i didn't really know what i was getting into and just thought i'd try it out. I dropped out after a few days when i realized it wasn't for me.
BUT the house that I remember the best WAS the delta zeta - they were the nicest, most sincere (probably not the skinniest or blondest) and they were one of 3 that asked me to join. The talks I had with the DZ girls during rush weren't about how the frat boys would come by and serenade them (gag) or how they could trade clothes with their sisters and would go to the mall together (who cares?) or that they had the best homecoming float 5 years running etc, but instead we had real conversations about academics, interests, what being in the house could do for me (besides get me drunk). So for me, we actually HAD a conversation instead of me sitting there going "OMIGOSH, get away from me you dumb broad" like I did at most houses. Wow, I can picutre myself sitting on the DZ couch right now, thinking, if i DID join a sorority, this would be it. So glad I didn't. This is embarrassing. Will it spread to other chapters? Why just this school? Congrats to the 6 girls who left on their own.
but rationalist...they did fuck it up. Those girls were too fat, too ugly or too smart. All obviously grounds for expulsion from DZ. How dare they think of joining a sorority for anything other than being a peice of meat for the local fraternity guys.
We will give nothing back to the academic community. As well as provide no public service of any kind. This much I promise you.
They were smart and/or ugly when they were bid. Fat is something that could have developed afterwards, but I would much rather see the sisters of DZ commit to helping their heftier sister live more healthfully than kick them out when they already have a problem.
i allways thought frats and sorority existed only in the movies
betadinesutures-
I'm sorry, but I'm a dope? No, if they knew what they were getting into, they would have had no motivation to join. What are you talking about, "the girls club changed the rules AFTER they became members and not before." What rules? the rules that you have to be a sex object? Those were always in place.
This is really a feminist issue about society forcing women to be sex objects, I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not they were smart or recruiting new members.
And none of them looked fat to me.
Glad to see there are other women in this discussion however I am not convinced there are any redeeming qualities in the Greek system whatsoever.
Honestly, I would have gotten rid of the fat and ugly ones too. It's a sorority, no one's entitled to fairness in a sorority.
why is being "heftier" a problem? it's only a problem if there is a health problem, and you can be "hefty" and still be healthy.
these women are the winners in this situation. they'll never get back in to the sorority, and that's OK, because unlike other instances of discrimination...this one is happening in the age of the internet, and the sorority in question will die out, surely.
hopefully what this does is put into relief the sheer stupidity of the greek system, and perhaps commence its demise.
arcanna, if the rules were already in place, then pray tell, how the fuck did they get in?
hey, i am no fan of any organization that endorses date rape, binge drinking and other bs, but i do take note that there are greek societies - typically co-ed - that are above this kind of horseshit.
the rules evidently were implemented and thus they were asked to leave. again after they'd already been members.
why is this RonJon allowed to post here? go away shit stirrer.
Honestly, I would have gotten rid of the dumbass long ago. It's not a open community, no one's entitled to fairness on a chat board.
While at the University I took an economics class. It was a basic one but the teacher was very demanding so He tells the call we are allowed to toss out one exam with a low grade at the end of the semester. So Here I am reading all the material and attending all the classes and when the grades go up wondering what the heck is going on. About half way thru the semester I discover this group of guys sitting behind me are all frat boys, and low an behold they unvail that they have every exam given in this class for the past years. So they just go over the exams and well as much as the proffessor mixes it up over the years it is usually just the order of the questions. So here they are all screaming along in the class and the proffessor decides he is going to be giving an exam just before a holiday and of course....everyone of these guys says well we will just skip the exam and toss the grade. Well I show up and this other older woman student and a few other isolated students, but the room is almost empty. The professor starts the hour with the statement, I didn't tell people they could skip the class and not take the exam and get it tossed. I said you can take the exams and toss your lowest score. He proceeded to take roll of everyone in the class, and all of a sudden all of our grades looked a hell of a lot better when you took the averages.
Ochana- that's why I chose to use the words "I would much rather see the sisters of DZ commit to helping their heftier sister live more healthfully". If more healthful living leads to slimness, so be it. If not, then they at least know that their sister is doing what she can to be healthy, and they haven't hurt her self-image by kicking her out for her weight, but instead actually shown that they were there for her.
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