With all this talk about why we hate people screwing up our drawings... specifically in the "Open Letter to the Interns..." thread... let's throw some love at this community of people still learning the ropes but are good enough to alleviate us from all the mundane, boring, time consuming, brainless tasks that without them we'd be doing. Also, feel free to commend an intern on going above and beyond yours or someone elses expectations.
So I offer this letter...
Dear Exploding Hatch Girl,
Though your poor CAD form has frustrated me on many days, thank you for actually happily accepting the CA work that I might have been roped into for the next year. You will be gaining valuable experience over the next two years visiting the job site and getting buried in submittals. I'll be free to travel to better job sites more frequently and work on interesting projects and not be held back by an 800k sq. ft. warehouse. And please, heed my warning about keeping hatches intact. we must anticipate change every step of the way as you will no doubt learn by being beatup and pushed around by contractors till 2008.
I would like to take this opportunity to let you know how much I appreciate what you do. I understand that on top of working 40+ hours a week, you attend classes an additional 14 hours a week, and volunteer another 8 hours a week helping build a strong community. You sure are a swell guy. I know that sitting in front of a computer for 8 hours a day sometimes (all of the time) leaves you with a migrane at the end of the day and hardly enough energy to take your shoes off before you fall into bed. I understand that 5 hours a sleep are not enough to go on, but you pull it off just fine. By the way, how is your carpal tunnel today? Please understand that when I ask you to get me coffee with cream and sugar, and then spend the remainder of the morning bitching at you because there is sugar in my coffee (you moron) I am just testing you.
In the future, I will try to give you a lunch break at least twice a week, and I promise to give you at least one Sunday a month off. I would like you to know we are currently in the process of updating your Commodore 64 to a new (new to you, anyway) Digital desktop (we know Digital hasn't been around for years) and upgrading you to the newest version of Windows 95. As far as the missing keys on your keyboard, we've determined they shouldn't hinder your ability to create toilet and stair details whatsoever (by the way, I expect those by the end of the day).
In closing, thank you for being such a great employee, and we promise to get your last 5 paychecks out to you just as soon as we fix that glitch in the accounting software.
how about a "principal appreciation" thread -- after all, we take your lame ass in from college and provide you a paycheck every week, whether you really do any productive work or not -- we give you a computer with a fast internet connection, so you can spend half the day surfing and the other half posting on archinect. we give you an opportunity to learn how buildings go together and we teach you how drawing sets are assembled. we take you out to the job site and train you to work with contractors and consultants. we provide you a full benefits package (at great cost) and nice working conditions and we treat you with respect. then, just when you start really knowing how to do something interesting, you claim you're bored and leave us for another firm, where you do almost exactly the same kind of work.
cos i've yet to find a principal stateside that wasn't a total narcissitic prick. i especially love it when i get harassed about crap beyond my control - yelling at me to find drawings some other disrespected lacky (that left because of the hostile environment) misplaced 5 years before i even started school - doesn't help the situation.
i pumped out that construction set @ under 19 hours a sheet because i busted my ass off efficiently, and your thanks was a $5 business card holder AND the recommendation that i tighten up my drawings.
do i use osnap? b*tch I've been using cad so long, i SUGGESTED osnap. get off my case already. no wonder you got passed over for that promotion.
quit looking at porn - come answer these questions we have, cos we might be quick on our feet, but i can't guess what ridiculously ugly tile you'll want to spec this time. the last time i tried, you got bent out of shape. therefore since i'm "clueless", i'll just let you do it, your holiness.
that's nice you went to an ivy league school, but why can't you correctly detail the waterproofing on that parapet? that project was built long before i got here, how's it my fault it's leaking, exactly?
what's that? you wanted me to spec seagull lighting fixtures? then why'd you throw the prandina binder at me instead of laying it on my desk?
and no, i won't call all your friends to make sure they got the party invitation.
where in the little handbook of architecture does it say, i got treated like a piece of sh*t when i was an intern, so i'm going to treat my interns like the pieces of crap they are.
some of us worked our butts off in school, might actually have some construction experience, and might be able to detail a building or run through a permit set with just a touch of help.
disrespect only begets disrespect.
nurture the skills, promote learning, create an environment conducive to productivity, don't talk down to people. accusing people of stupid, petty things especially if the fault lies elsewhere is such a terrible way to lead. EVERYONE stops listening, work slows dramatically. it seems like 80% of problems are because architects know little about management/hr. sure, they have the legal stuff down. we're great about covering our butts. i don't care if i have to work long hours or work on some crappy project picked up as a favor to a friend. i'll deal with it, that's why i drink hard and enter competitions to keep my sanity. i want to work efficiently, i want to be good. i'm willing to go the extra mile. just don't treat me like sh*t.
amen holz.box, I'd just like to add, where does it say - I earned shit as an intern so that gives me a right to pay you shit while I spend what would be your salary on a country club membership?
eh nice catch vado
banzai is a japanese term for the last ditch suicidal charge in the face of defeat.
one of my co-workers is always mumbling it when losing an argument.
Wow, mine too. I get bored with the work I do, its pretty bland stuff, but at least I get off at 5, and don't have to work weekends. I KNEW there was a reason I liked Texas.
You know that clearing the loose paper from the plotter is very mundane, so is going downstairs to pick up a few extra reems of paper at 10lb each....thanks
I'll never ask you to make me coffee...you might poison me (much less i'm not sure you know what coffee is supposed to taste like)
I don't think i'll bring you out on a job site because you spend too much time chatting with the workers hitting on you
But hey you ditching me after lunch when i really need you to pump some cad - adjustments from our site visits...you owe me
holz.box, you friggin nailed it...i would suggest an intern revolution if i wasn't so swamped in student loan debt and needed my job. but i guess i could hang drywall...i think "banzai" would actually be correct in that case..."TEN THOUSAND YEARS!"
there are a lot of generalities and stereotypes being bandied around in this thread that, in my experience, don't hold up in day-to-day practice. i've been doing this for a while and, imho, there are some interns and some principals who demonstrate the bad behavior described herein.
however, i don't find this to be the norm. most of the design professionals i've met, at all levels, are serious, professional people. they conduct themselves, day-in and day-out, in an appropriate manner.
this is not to say that the stereotypes don't exist - they do. but, in my world at least, they are atypical.
what's important is how the firm addresses these issues -- if the firm looks the other way and sweeps the problems under the carpet, then the bad behavior is much more likely to take root and become the norm in that particular culture. but, if the firm has the backbone to address the bad behaviour in a swift and direct manner, then the firm will have a much more professional, respectful mode of operation.
I'm not gonna read most of this whiny stuff, but I would like to say:
I have had two interns--one especially--be an incredible help to me in the past couple weeks, letting me constantly interrupt what they're doing and add more work to their plates, staying late, extending their hours to help me get something done in crunch time, and being really smart and intuitive about what needs to get done. I am very thankful to our interns!!! They are wonderful people and will do fantastically in the future.
I am an intern and can not complain about my job at all. These posts make me thankful to have my job.
Working late with average pay is to be expected. Being yelled at and abused should not. Get a new job and feel better about yourself.
i will start by saying i think you are a wonderful person and i think mean well with the work you do, but i really wish you had just a little more experience and awareness and when i try to teach you something about drawing would perhaps trust me and try it. since you do not, i'm sitting here at 12:40 am on a sunday/monday and i'm moving bits and pieces of a building 5/16 9/16 1/8 3/8 5/8 of an inch and i'm wondering how in gosh's name you ever were able to accomplish these dimensions. i know i've shown you offset, i know i've shown you how to stretch using keyed in numbers such as "36" so everything lines up how it should. i know i've repeatedly requested you NOT use the "aligned" dimensions but instead use the "linear" dimension and for some reason you continue to ignore me when dimensioning. when you tell me it's b/c the "linear" dimensions "don't always work" please hear the words that are coming out of my mouth when i say "they're 'not working' b/c you're drawing is off, try again using the stretch command and keying in the distance you need, or offsetting, again, keying in the distance you need."
additionally, construction lines are good, so is m2p (mid-two-points), drawing lines to "line things up" is bad. why you ask? b/c these lines are often forgetten about and become ghosts in the drawing, sitting 2 or 3 deep and throwing things off, like midpoints, or when filleting (that is something we'll be covering AGAIN soon, b/c really, it IS important that lines meet and when you drag points around your lines tend to get crooked and hence another reason i'm sitting here at 12:47 am when i REALLY want to be sleeping b/c i know tomorrow is going to be a rough day w/ the boss yelling at me and all saying "when are the drawings going to be done, when are the drawings going to be done" and i still have to figure out the stairs that are not lining up and then line up the other 4 floors which i haven't been able to get to b/c i've spent the last 8 hours evening out dimensions) polylines creating multiple sets of polylines that ultimately don't connect and also overlap. you remember the polyline lesson right? i know we covered that a couple of weeks ago but again, please trust me, when things work as a whole it makes drawing alot faster and changes alot easier, i swear, i wouldn't lie to you. do you know why i wouldn't lie to you? i wouldn't lie to you b/c we already won't make much on the project and the faster you and i can both get things done the better off both of our lives will be and the less chance i'll be sitting here at 12:51 am writing you this letter on archinect b/c i'm so frustrated i'd really like to yell at you right now but i keep reminding myself that we all have to learn and i'll just keep trying to teach you but boy i'm just really not a patient person and while i may seem like i am on the outside i'm smoking twice as much as i did a few weeks ago and i've actually started drinking again b/c i'm so wound up. but i digress.
i'm not unhappy with you per say, what i'd really like to see is for you to take a little bit of initiative. i've asked you if you just want me to redline stuff for you and you can be a cad monkey, or if you'd like me to let you take some responsibility for the buildings and the drawings, which btw would be great for your resume for the next job you'll apply for and also will get you a glowing reference from me rather than a "yes, he was fine to work with" reference. you tell me you don't care so i'm trying to give you responsibility b/c you're going to have to learn these things if you ever want to work in a firm and be something more than a cad monkey. please retain what i tell you, please do some thinking for yourself. when you make a change to a drawing stop yourself and think..."what else might this affect? perhaps the corridor dimension? perhaps the bathroom on the 5th floor that is slightly different? i bet i'll have to change the section too, and OH! i moved that window 8 inches, i'd better check the elevations!
thank you for this time. if you help me i'll teach you everything i know (even though it may not be much) and make sure you get the opportunities to experience as an intern the things i never got to do but really wanted to.
Intern Appreciation Thread
With all this talk about why we hate people screwing up our drawings... specifically in the "Open Letter to the Interns..." thread... let's throw some love at this community of people still learning the ropes but are good enough to alleviate us from all the mundane, boring, time consuming, brainless tasks that without them we'd be doing. Also, feel free to commend an intern on going above and beyond yours or someone elses expectations.
So I offer this letter...
Dear Exploding Hatch Girl,
Though your poor CAD form has frustrated me on many days, thank you for actually happily accepting the CA work that I might have been roped into for the next year. You will be gaining valuable experience over the next two years visiting the job site and getting buried in submittals. I'll be free to travel to better job sites more frequently and work on interesting projects and not be held back by an 800k sq. ft. warehouse. And please, heed my warning about keeping hatches intact. we must anticipate change every step of the way as you will no doubt learn by being beatup and pushed around by contractors till 2008.
You loving neighbor,
-Postal
Dear Chili Davis,
I would like to take this opportunity to let you know how much I appreciate what you do. I understand that on top of working 40+ hours a week, you attend classes an additional 14 hours a week, and volunteer another 8 hours a week helping build a strong community. You sure are a swell guy. I know that sitting in front of a computer for 8 hours a day sometimes (all of the time) leaves you with a migrane at the end of the day and hardly enough energy to take your shoes off before you fall into bed. I understand that 5 hours a sleep are not enough to go on, but you pull it off just fine. By the way, how is your carpal tunnel today? Please understand that when I ask you to get me coffee with cream and sugar, and then spend the remainder of the morning bitching at you because there is sugar in my coffee (you moron) I am just testing you.
In the future, I will try to give you a lunch break at least twice a week, and I promise to give you at least one Sunday a month off. I would like you to know we are currently in the process of updating your Commodore 64 to a new (new to you, anyway) Digital desktop (we know Digital hasn't been around for years) and upgrading you to the newest version of Windows 95. As far as the missing keys on your keyboard, we've determined they shouldn't hinder your ability to create toilet and stair details whatsoever (by the way, I expect those by the end of the day).
In closing, thank you for being such a great employee, and we promise to get your last 5 paychecks out to you just as soon as we fix that glitch in the accounting software.
Sincerely,
The Man
how about a "principal appreciation" thread -- after all, we take your lame ass in from college and provide you a paycheck every week, whether you really do any productive work or not -- we give you a computer with a fast internet connection, so you can spend half the day surfing and the other half posting on archinect. we give you an opportunity to learn how buildings go together and we teach you how drawing sets are assembled. we take you out to the job site and train you to work with contractors and consultants. we provide you a full benefits package (at great cost) and nice working conditions and we treat you with respect. then, just when you start really knowing how to do something interesting, you claim you're bored and leave us for another firm, where you do almost exactly the same kind of work.
whoa, respect? can i work for you?
cos i've yet to find a principal stateside that wasn't a total narcissitic prick. i especially love it when i get harassed about crap beyond my control - yelling at me to find drawings some other disrespected lacky (that left because of the hostile environment) misplaced 5 years before i even started school - doesn't help the situation.
i pumped out that construction set @ under 19 hours a sheet because i busted my ass off efficiently, and your thanks was a $5 business card holder AND the recommendation that i tighten up my drawings.
do i use osnap? b*tch I've been using cad so long, i SUGGESTED osnap. get off my case already. no wonder you got passed over for that promotion.
quit looking at porn - come answer these questions we have, cos we might be quick on our feet, but i can't guess what ridiculously ugly tile you'll want to spec this time. the last time i tried, you got bent out of shape. therefore since i'm "clueless", i'll just let you do it, your holiness.
that's nice you went to an ivy league school, but why can't you correctly detail the waterproofing on that parapet? that project was built long before i got here, how's it my fault it's leaking, exactly?
what's that? you wanted me to spec seagull lighting fixtures? then why'd you throw the prandina binder at me instead of laying it on my desk?
and no, i won't call all your friends to make sure they got the party invitation.
wow.
that looks bad. i really need to get a new job.
"b*tch I've been using cad so long, i SUGGESTED osnap"
im getting that tatoo
... and so ... where do principal's come from ?
all these 'narcissitic pricks' once were interns.
box must work in the cubicle next to me...
where in the little handbook of architecture does it say, i got treated like a piece of sh*t when i was an intern, so i'm going to treat my interns like the pieces of crap they are.
some of us worked our butts off in school, might actually have some construction experience, and might be able to detail a building or run through a permit set with just a touch of help.
disrespect only begets disrespect.
nurture the skills, promote learning, create an environment conducive to productivity, don't talk down to people. accusing people of stupid, petty things especially if the fault lies elsewhere is such a terrible way to lead. EVERYONE stops listening, work slows dramatically. it seems like 80% of problems are because architects know little about management/hr. sure, they have the legal stuff down. we're great about covering our butts. i don't care if i have to work long hours or work on some crappy project picked up as a favor to a friend. i'll deal with it, that's why i drink hard and enter competitions to keep my sanity. i want to work efficiently, i want to be good. i'm willing to go the extra mile. just don't treat me like sh*t.
it's like a banzai tree.
when you mistreat banzai, banzai die!!
amen holz.box, I'd just like to add, where does it say - I earned shit as an intern so that gives me a right to pay you shit while I spend what would be your salary on a country club membership?
i believe that's Bonsai. not banzai.
eh nice catch vado
banzai is a japanese term for the last ditch suicidal charge in the face of defeat.
one of my co-workers is always mumbling it when losing an argument.
I'd just like to say, my bosses must be a lot better than I thought. And the open letter to interns thread was a little offensive, though funny.
Wow, mine too. I get bored with the work I do, its pretty bland stuff, but at least I get off at 5, and don't have to work weekends. I KNEW there was a reason I liked Texas.
banzi boszi
potato tater
banana nana
moma yo mama
You know that clearing the loose paper from the plotter is very mundane, so is going downstairs to pick up a few extra reems of paper at 10lb each....thanks
I'll never ask you to make me coffee...you might poison me (much less i'm not sure you know what coffee is supposed to taste like)
I don't think i'll bring you out on a job site because you spend too much time chatting with the workers hitting on you
But hey you ditching me after lunch when i really need you to pump some cad - adjustments from our site visits...you owe me
but i still love|loath you
holz.box, you friggin nailed it...i would suggest an intern revolution if i wasn't so swamped in student loan debt and needed my job. but i guess i could hang drywall...i think "banzai" would actually be correct in that case..."TEN THOUSAND YEARS!"
there are a lot of generalities and stereotypes being bandied around in this thread that, in my experience, don't hold up in day-to-day practice. i've been doing this for a while and, imho, there are some interns and some principals who demonstrate the bad behavior described herein.
however, i don't find this to be the norm. most of the design professionals i've met, at all levels, are serious, professional people. they conduct themselves, day-in and day-out, in an appropriate manner.
this is not to say that the stereotypes don't exist - they do. but, in my world at least, they are atypical.
what's important is how the firm addresses these issues -- if the firm looks the other way and sweeps the problems under the carpet, then the bad behavior is much more likely to take root and become the norm in that particular culture. but, if the firm has the backbone to address the bad behaviour in a swift and direct manner, then the firm will have a much more professional, respectful mode of operation.
I'm not gonna read most of this whiny stuff, but I would like to say:
I have had two interns--one especially--be an incredible help to me in the past couple weeks, letting me constantly interrupt what they're doing and add more work to their plates, staying late, extending their hours to help me get something done in crunch time, and being really smart and intuitive about what needs to get done. I am very thankful to our interns!!! They are wonderful people and will do fantastically in the future.
Is the IAT required to get licensed in CA?
I am an intern and can not complain about my job at all. These posts make me thankful to have my job.
Working late with average pay is to be expected. Being yelled at and abused should not. Get a new job and feel better about yourself.
dear intern,
i will start by saying i think you are a wonderful person and i think mean well with the work you do, but i really wish you had just a little more experience and awareness and when i try to teach you something about drawing would perhaps trust me and try it. since you do not, i'm sitting here at 12:40 am on a sunday/monday and i'm moving bits and pieces of a building 5/16 9/16 1/8 3/8 5/8 of an inch and i'm wondering how in gosh's name you ever were able to accomplish these dimensions. i know i've shown you offset, i know i've shown you how to stretch using keyed in numbers such as "36" so everything lines up how it should. i know i've repeatedly requested you NOT use the "aligned" dimensions but instead use the "linear" dimension and for some reason you continue to ignore me when dimensioning. when you tell me it's b/c the "linear" dimensions "don't always work" please hear the words that are coming out of my mouth when i say "they're 'not working' b/c you're drawing is off, try again using the stretch command and keying in the distance you need, or offsetting, again, keying in the distance you need."
additionally, construction lines are good, so is m2p (mid-two-points), drawing lines to "line things up" is bad. why you ask? b/c these lines are often forgetten about and become ghosts in the drawing, sitting 2 or 3 deep and throwing things off, like midpoints, or when filleting (that is something we'll be covering AGAIN soon, b/c really, it IS important that lines meet and when you drag points around your lines tend to get crooked and hence another reason i'm sitting here at 12:47 am when i REALLY want to be sleeping b/c i know tomorrow is going to be a rough day w/ the boss yelling at me and all saying "when are the drawings going to be done, when are the drawings going to be done" and i still have to figure out the stairs that are not lining up and then line up the other 4 floors which i haven't been able to get to b/c i've spent the last 8 hours evening out dimensions) polylines creating multiple sets of polylines that ultimately don't connect and also overlap. you remember the polyline lesson right? i know we covered that a couple of weeks ago but again, please trust me, when things work as a whole it makes drawing alot faster and changes alot easier, i swear, i wouldn't lie to you. do you know why i wouldn't lie to you? i wouldn't lie to you b/c we already won't make much on the project and the faster you and i can both get things done the better off both of our lives will be and the less chance i'll be sitting here at 12:51 am writing you this letter on archinect b/c i'm so frustrated i'd really like to yell at you right now but i keep reminding myself that we all have to learn and i'll just keep trying to teach you but boy i'm just really not a patient person and while i may seem like i am on the outside i'm smoking twice as much as i did a few weeks ago and i've actually started drinking again b/c i'm so wound up. but i digress.
i'm not unhappy with you per say, what i'd really like to see is for you to take a little bit of initiative. i've asked you if you just want me to redline stuff for you and you can be a cad monkey, or if you'd like me to let you take some responsibility for the buildings and the drawings, which btw would be great for your resume for the next job you'll apply for and also will get you a glowing reference from me rather than a "yes, he was fine to work with" reference. you tell me you don't care so i'm trying to give you responsibility b/c you're going to have to learn these things if you ever want to work in a firm and be something more than a cad monkey. please retain what i tell you, please do some thinking for yourself. when you make a change to a drawing stop yourself and think..."what else might this affect? perhaps the corridor dimension? perhaps the bathroom on the 5th floor that is slightly different? i bet i'll have to change the section too, and OH! i moved that window 8 inches, i'd better check the elevations!
thank you for this time. if you help me i'll teach you everything i know (even though it may not be much) and make sure you get the opportunities to experience as an intern the things i never got to do but really wanted to.
sincerely,
me
12:58 am
i guess that was important. i feel better now. i'll go have a smoke.
It sucks, eh? Good luck getting some sleep tonight, ChAOS.
thank lb :) it takes ALL of us time to learn yes:)
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