Give the work to an American:
SimplyCAD.com
Tell Chris a Paesan referred you.
The overseas drafting is well underway and might possibly ruin chances for future interns getting a decent apprenticeship.

Yes, be very very careful what you wish for. It is being done (HLW I believe, for one). The free market would dictate that it would not leave more time for design. The firm down the street would use the lower cost to undercut your proposal.

And don't underestimate the value of this tedious stuff for new graduates.

I know of some firms that outsource. It's reasonable and keeps the firm's size steady (where other firms that handle 50 million + buildings will hire and fire).
There will be more and more of it as there is very little skill involved with putting them together, so no reason to pay someone for it. It works for me, as I'd rather be designing than drawing CAD files. This also can open the door for architects to actually make some money for design work.

There are too many architects, anyway. ;-)

ArchAngel, I'm all for keeping it in the states but lets face it, if I don't do it someone else is. I checked out simplycad.com and just from my initial impression of thier website they are going to overcharge for the work I am talking about doing.

Part of the reason that the outsourcing of web work is going overseas is because it is cheaping and a better product. Cheaper because of lower wages and a better product because this is the only skill the focus on from a younger age. Instead getting a education in all the 'basics' highschool years they go to 'web' school. At least this is my understanding of how and way it works so well.

mbr hints on the idea that I am talking about. Does anyone know more details about companies (or work?) that employes this technique?

I think this touches on a bigger issue than autocad outsourcing. Its starting to happen or already happening as we know in other prof. fields. Dont be mislead and think that you will get more time for design, the opposite will happen as ALDOROSSI pointed out. It will become a battle of who has the fastest sweatshop adn who can produce the drawings faster. The other side effect is even more jobless new architects, high undemployment leads to bad economy, bad economy leads to no "design commissions"

MBR-"There will be more and more of it as there is very little skill involved with putting them together, so no reason to pay someone for it".

-NO SKILL?NO REASON TO PAY SOMEONE FOR IT?
MBR, have you ever drawn a set of construction drawings? Doing construction drawings is half the creativity, do you think Ghery can build Bilbao with just his doodles, it takes someone equally creative to draw a set that can communicate your design to a builder.

eVERYBODY is thinking about the quick fix here and not the long term implications, i mean when does it stop? Pretty soon there will be one principal at SOM with an army in China! It starts with the drafters but everybody is expendable, even you precious designers who think that the Chinese or the Indians could never be creative.

It may not be great for American companies to outsource, at least for American employees, but it's also not good to hire/fire as subtle swings in the economy and with projects occur. This happens all the time with architecture, so if you can outsource and keep things stable, that seems far better.

Architects also make next to nothing, so if there is a way to cut their expenses and profit more, that can only help the profession in the long run.

The reason designers will be more valuable is because they interact with the client and create unique solutions based on each situation, not a set of plans after it's designed. This interaction cannot be done over the phone or across continents. Just look at web design, it's easy to outsource the backend and programming, but you can't design something for a client if you can't understand their needs.

I worked for a large firm that started outsourcing some CAD to India and China 4 or 5 years ago. They tried a number of different companies but ultimately were never happy with the quality and especially the coordination of the work. It's difficult to communicate changes quickly, and there also turned out to be a lot of time involved in communication since most of it had to be in written form. When your drafters are in-house you can talk to them, as well as guage whether they're following you. When they're overseas you end up sending email transmittals to their supervisor, who may or may not be understanding you completely and/or may or may not be passing on the info to his staff clearly and quickly...
In the end this firm stopped outsourcing most construction drawing work overseas due to these hassles, though they've recently been having some 3D modeling and rendering done in China. They do occasionally use a local CAD firm if there are major deadline issues with the CD set - but this is usually done by sending a project manager to the CAD firm on a daily basis to coordinate.

out sourcing would drive down the (already lower than average professional) wages of architects!

Instead of charging the same fees and spend more time and hiring more architects for design work..... what would probably happen is that frims would just offer clients lower rates just to get the job.

Hi

Now there also are some difference between a rendering job and projecting. Focus for many years been on the renderings and presentations but to do those you do not use the floor plans if you know what I mean.
For many years I seen the thing as a lame mean to press down cost, but the only things that happen is that fewer will work with actural CAD projecting and then it end up so, that the CAD drawings be made after the house are build. I se no reason not to have the renderings done elsewhere but the actural 3D model and develobment of new rutines and new manufactoring methods shuld not, beside these are two different things, ---- I just wonder why they are confused and mixed together again and again.

Per, some firms use 3D models throughout the design of the project and derive their construction drawings from these models. In that case I'd agree that outsourcing would be very risky, not to mention inefficient. I've worked for firms that do use the 3D model to generate CDs, but the majority of firms still do not use this approach on most projects.
In my post about having 3D models and renderings outsourced internationally I was referring to a firm that usually creates 3D models AFTER plans, sections and elevations are fairly well developed. These models are usually used solely for the purpose of generating renderings for publication, marketing, and award submissions after the design development phase but before the completion of construction (at which point there would be actual photos of the building, superceding the renderings.) For this reason, the 3D models and renderings are "mixed togethe" - i.e. the sole reason for the existence of these models is for generating renderings of them. In this situation I feel it's usually desirable to have the model and renderings completed by the same entity.

trace-

first of all outsourcing is an even worst form of hire and fire. Wake up and smell the coffee as interaction over the phone or online have been happening for a long time now. I worked for a firm that did mostly overseas projects and do you want to know how many meetings on average the principals met in lets say 2 years schedule of design and construction-4 times, the rest over the phone, email and videoconferencing!

Dont think that just becasue you think you can design means you are safe from being replaced by a talented chinese or indian. In fact with more and more of them attending our universities, they are quickly catching up. Do you really think that because you can outsource your drawings the client is all of a sudden going to think your design and ideas are worth more and pay more? dream on. The way to get more pay for design is to increase the awareness and knowledge level of the public in the value of design and how it affects their world.

I think what you are hinting at as far as interaction is actually "people skills" and establishing a relationship with the client. But for this you need one person in the firm, the man at the top, the only beneficiary of outsourcing.

Hi

I know that great works are made rendering projects, that this often sell a concept, but the real challance is to make all parties work from the same basic 3D drawing. Different rutines and often in house develobed way\s to maneage ,different way\s to add changes to the drawing and having this updated ,just the mess about what format file you use for that , just to provide a basic plan that realy can be used by all specific crafts involved ------ rules regulations code books, is realy hell manifest in real, no resonto go there it\s already here.

I say so as I years ago joined a network where the danish state posted hundred of millions into somthing that in the end could mean that you need to be a bookkeper rather than a designer to participate a simple contest, ---- some year ago as being one of the few who could be thought to solve a difficult 3D puzzle, I recived drawings of a bulding, where the core problem was, that the drawings was made _after_ the building was made, and ontop these "drawings" was just plain 2D sections , 17 of them even aranged in a way you usealy don't use, but this was the only way to follow some rules and draw a round structure. ------- Now computers was made to make it simpler right ;))

aluminate -

your point about outsourcing hits the nail on the head and is exactly what i figured, without any personal experience.

"The way to get more pay for design is to increase the awareness and knowledge level of the public in the value of design and how it affects their world.
" - pogo

I couldn't agree more. This is the area I think that is neglected the most with regards to public marketing, most likely because most architects are not good designers. I don't doubt that their will be figures emerging from overseas with talent, large projects, etc. I would even suggest that the next Morphosis will not come from LA or New York, or at least the people pushing their ideas forward will not be from the US or Europe. Only time will tell.
Outsourcing WILL happen, and the only way to thrive in this global environment is to demonstrate what you have to offer that others don't, regardless of price.

If the pricnipals are making money, it keeps the business alive, if they don't make money, it dies. I'd rather see an employer stay in business than go bankrupt.