i am in the market to buy a new computer and i am seriously thinking of getting the new MAC with the INtel processor. anyone recently made the same switch, how is it? running programs, rhino, autocad, 3d studio max, etc.?
I am sick of all the issues i have with my PC....!!
thanks for advice, by the way how much did you pay for yours?
H
My PC died unexpectedly in June and I made the switch on a whim. I have absolutely no regrets. At first I was like, wait, I can't run AutoCad, and then I remembered that I could either A) run Bootcamp, or B) just not care because I couldn't actually remember the last time I HAD to use AutoCad at home.
I love my MacBook Pro. I paid maybe 10% less than the average person will because I got a discount through a friend. My only regret is that I didn't get the largest possible hard drive. Go for the 120 GB, definitely.
My roommate got a new MacBook Pro a few months after me and ran benchmarks against his PC.....his Mac laptop actually ran more than twice as fast as his PC did. Granted he got the fastest processor, but still. Not bad, eh?
I'll be in the same boat in a few months when I start shopping for a laptop to use for grad school. I'm seriously considering getting a MacBook Pro and then installing Parallels for my Windows-based applications (primarily AutoCAD).
Of course, this decision will be largely dependent upon the requirements of the particular school I end up going to, but does anybody else have any words of wisdom? What sort of academic discounts are available for Macs compared to PCs? For the amount of money I'd spend on a MacBook Pro I could get a top-of-the-line Dell laptop, so I'm still slightly undecided. I'm leaning heavily toward making the jump to Mac, though.
Any further developments in the longstanding rumor that Autodesk is developing a Mac version of AutoCAD?
I recently bought a Mac Pro and have been very happy with the hardware. If you intend to run Rhino, Autocad and Max you are still going to have to run Windows and you will still have all those issues.
Autodesk could care less about the Mac market. Acad will never run natively on a Mac.
If you need to run any 3D apps you'll have to use bootcamp rather than parallels. Parallels uses emulated graphics which will slow your 3D apps way down. If you are just using it for drafting in Acad then its fine.
Academic discounts are very easy to get with Mac, it seems they don't ask for your student ID when you purchase online.
i don't understand what people do to their computers (PCs)... I've my ASUS laptop for 2.5 years. Windows has never crashed. Never had any hardware problem. Still runs fast, and can render with brazil all night long with its "single core" centrino processor.
Yeah, I've always thought that once you toss on Windows, all benefits of the Mac are gone. Don't you open yourself to the crashes and viruses? I thought all the benefits came in the OS. Cause you can get Core Duos on tons of PCs now.
Working on a mac was a terrible experiance. You must learn from your own mistakes, not mine. Granted it seemed to be smoother interface at first, it crashed more and was slower than any PC environment Ive been in. Plus they're totally gay.
One of the things that bothers me about Macs isn't so much the Mac, but rather the Mac user. The idea that because they are the underdog (as far as PCs), they are special. There was a time in history when Mac and Windows were struggling it out and Billy just did something better. Some say it was shady, but whatever happened, dude made a good move. Mac could have just as easily beat MS to the punch, but they didn't make the move and now have what 4% of the PC market? Would all the hipsters with their black painters caps cocked sideways whilst weaving their fixies through traffic use a Windows machine if Mac won?
Macs are great in that they work nicely because Mac only gives you a handful of hardware configurations. Maybe things will change now that they use PC parts, but I really like the flexibility I have to tweak and customize my PC with thousands of different components, shop prices. The WORST problem I ever had with my computer was a conflict between the videocard and my motherboard which wasn't too big of a problem. Oh, one time my harddrive shit, but it was IBM anyway, and I'm pretty sure they are used in both. But because of that flexibility I've extended the life of my old PC for about 8 years. My parents use it now, but if I left it with the original configuration, it would be useless 4 years ago. But it's still kickin and that is a big benefit in my eyes.
I guess maybe the lack of viruses on the Mac is good for looking at porn? All the 'iStuff' isn't a selling point for me because I use higher end stuff anyway, other than the one time I used iDVD I think, which was really easy. I've just never understood all the dancing around to rig up something that already works elsewhere when there is no monitary savings or real performance boost.
I've sold MACS and PCs for years, and my experience is that Apple products are 10 times more reliable than PC products (thats software, hardware, and support). You'll have issues with MACs still just as you have with PC. There are still DOAs with Macs, crashes, lemon computers, but the percentage compared to PCs is significantly low. It may take a few weeks to get used to the Mac interface, but it is certainly much more stable, customizable, and friendly than XP (haven't used Vista yet, so I couldn't compare). The Mac computers are also much more stylish and have many new hardware features built in that are really quite handy and functional (such as the remote and built in camera and mic which work quite well). They include Firewire 800 now and the laptops use the new pcexpress slot rather than the standard PCICMA that most laptops use (they're looking ahead to the new technology form).
The design and compatibility with fellow mac products is a plus, and Apple does more than any other computer company at pushing the envelope. Now I don't know what evilplatypus is talking about, but i have never seen two Macs of the same sex having intercourse with one another, so I'm pretty sure they're not gay.
And if you still need windows, it works flawlessly on a dual boot. Any driver issues should be released with the new Mac OS coming out shortly, but I haven't experienced them. Having just read reviews, Parallels for mac is a great replacement to Virtual PC. It's rather fast and stable. However, you will not got full CPU computing out of it, and it does not have the ability to run accelerated 3D graphics. There are also several hardware issues (scanner, printers, communication devices) that you may have trouble working with. However it does allow you to quickly switch to with out rebooting. If you do have issues, or you need that graphic power, Boot Camp will solve them.
I've been a PC guy for the last 15+ years, and I have now given up all my PC desktops in replace for my macbook pro.
When using Boot Camp, how difficult is it to share files between your Mac-based apps and your Windows-based apps? I usually set up a seperate partition on the HD for all my data files. Is it possible to set up such a partition so that it can be used by both Mac and Windows apps?
Also, how well do Windows-based applications perform under Boot Camp compared to the same applications performing on comparible hardware on a PC?
FOG- what level of discount do you get through the 'academic discount'? I've looked at the academic section of the apple website, and it says lots of nice things, but nothing about the $$$ factor.
I killed my pc last month and am looking at getting a nice little 13.3" MacBook as a replacement.
evilp, I'm not looking to prove anything. history asked a question and we're trying to give him an answer. I have personally had a great experience with mine and was showing some enthusisam.
LIG - Using Boot Camp is just like making your Mac a PC, 100%. There is no performance loss, in fact you may notice an increase since the Macs tend to have faster components than many computers out there (not to say there aren't PCs that are just as fast if not faster).
Rationalist- The discount factor depends on the price of the Mac. For the lower end laptops expect around 150 or so, higher ends can be 200+. Your university may also offer and additional discount. The warranties are also discounted.
use Apple's Education store to find your school and the price associated.
I remembered that you were poo-pooing the Mac at the Rodan event...
Welcome to the Dark Side ;-)
In order to find best deal, I would check Amazon as they don't charge sales tax. It'll be a few dollars cheaper than the Apple Store for Education because the Apple Store charges sales tax.
Also, I bought the last generation MacBook Pro at SmallDog. it was a refurb and was $1350. There was no sales tax. It has a video card.
Do NOT buy the cheaper MacBook because it has integrated graphics. It won't serve you well.
MAC rules! AutoCAD and 3D Max work just as fast as on PC, you will get all the glitches and crashes on the PC side of the computer just as on regular PC,
but OS X will be as stable as always is.
did you mean G's or G'z? cause real G'z are idiots. get the mac, you won't regret it. Especially now that it can run windows natively. The mac is a more solid ship and nobody can argue that. However, in the end they both do the same thing.
platypus - Why are you so against the mac? it just seems a bit irrational and silly to me. You don't have to use one but if you know anything about computers, which I assume you do, then I don't see how you can be so opposed to them. They are not defined by there users, which is what you seem to dislike more than the machine itself. The fact of the matter is, they are built better and run more smoothly than a PC. Not to say that PC's are inferior but there is a lot of work you must continue to do in order for a PC to work well.
to share files between two sides you will have to store them in one of the PC's folder. PC drive can be reached from Mac side, while PC absolutely does not see Mac. mind- it's only beta version. besides- your clocks will be constantly screwed up on both sides.
Cp- ur right - I havent used mac in 3 years. But Every argument i see here is just false from the machine i was on.
OS was not as stable. Just as easily crashed - and when it did it was more disasterous. This is the most persistant myth going.
It was slow - running archicad - and regenerated terribly
Web pages didnt always display right
The jelly button interface was rather annoying
I just never saw these advantages to justify the cost - esp when a PC is like a kit of interchangeable parts. Parts that are competetively produced all over the world, spreading economic prosperity. My PC is fucking evolving, right there on my desk.
Steve Jobs and his "vision" are really the uber controling facist like entity the mac was claiming to be breaking in their famous 1985 commercial. The PC is about competition and economic reality versus propaganda marketing.
Still have to use a PC at work so.
(Luckilly there are admins who help.)
But I never ever want to care about drivers and where to set the right mark to get some app. running in my free time.
that was the functional reason why I prefer the mac
the architectural reason: they just look nicer...
we are architects and so we like macs:
one design - one system.
if you think your PC is evolving on your desktop, this is as if you would think some macmansion :-) would evolve with the help of home depot and the skill of some do-it-yourself-guy into something like architecture...
if you say this is a facist way to think, I wonder how how you deal with your clients.
platypus - Your argument is very justified. The only problem though when so many people make parts for a PC is that a lot of the time you are gonna purchase something that has horribly written software and it will fail you or give you problems, unless you know what you are doing and can deal with it. You can upgrade a mac as well but there is no shopping for parts as you only have one option. I agree that this is a bit of a drawback as well as expensive, but the good thing about it is that it is guaranteed to work properly. I still like PC's for the very reasons you just described but for me the mac is a better choice.
Apple has always been a company with an idenity crisis, right from the start. The problem is they don't know if they want to be a hardware company or a software company or a pherperial company.
No doubt they had a commanding lead in the software race. If Steve Jobs was a business man there would be no Microsoft today, none. Apple had the Mac OS running on intel chips way back before Windows 3.1 came out. They scrapped that program because hardware was in a fight with software. Internal babbling at a time when they could've focused on eliminating what today is the bar-none most influential software company in the world. Apple lost, it's too late.
Everyone knew the Mac OS was better, but it was limited to Apple's proprietary and expensive hardware. Bad move on their part, but Apple seems to like being a cult group.
Another terrible move was Job's selecting Sculley to take over as CEO in the 80's. What a former boss of PepsiCo knows about computers is beyond me. I expect similar bone headed moves in the future. Eventually all things get topped, even the Ipod will.
Those are examples why I'm not a Mac user. I don't doubt they are good machines. I just know they'll never be mainstream. Integrate them as much as you like, they are still way too propietary and expensive. I've used shitty shitty Dell, Compaq and HP computers running Windows with zero problems. Currently have a 6 year old Toshiba laptop running like a top. Why switch? I cannot find a reason to.
urbanisto- I don't see it that way. I see it as getting your home remodeled instead of tearing it down and building a new one. Why tear your house down so that you can have a bigger kitchen?/Why buy a new computer when all you need is more RAM and a better graphics card?
good point rationalist
and I myself used to upgrade and change bits abd pieces of my PC.
But as I simply don't have the time now or the nerves (I had somehow while at university), I spend the extra money.(that's true unfortunately)
But Iwould still doubt that many people change the graphics card on their laptop insted of buying an new Dell or whatever. (adding more RAM I've been told, is quite easy with a mac)
So everybody feel free to remodel your homes, I just hope the look of the "case" is worth the money you spend on the inside...
I just bought a macpro this past Friday, upgrading from my alienware laptop (which can not be upgraded) that I used during thesis. I look at switching as having the ability to work in both worlds and dealing with the best and worst each has to offer.
Some of the software (maxwell, PS, AI, IND) I use works on both platforms and I've seen benchmarks that show the PC version runs faster on a bootcamp MAC than it does on a PC with the same processors (maxwell in particular). Add to that the fact that it was actually going to be cheaper to buy a Mac instead of a similarly tricked out Dell or Boxx…I couldn't pass it up. I'm very impressed with how well thought out the design of the tower is (and the packaging for that matter)--even the insides look nice which can't alway be said for a PC…
why can't we all just be bi- and tri-lingual? i've always hated this argument, and i don't know why i'm reading it. it comes up every other week.
i run macs at work, pc's at home. i'll let my bosses float the $$ for the nice, cushy iMac's but for what i need to do at home, my toshiba is plenty good. and when i get around to it, i'll get a beater pc with some bomb-a$$ new components in it and run it as my home based web-server using linux/apache/etc. and get sick run-time.
though i will say evilp, webpages not displaying correctly on a mac circa 2003 has way more to do with bad developers not adhering to good web standards and the use of cascading style sheets, etc etc, than it did with the mac. imho.
and c'mon, you know you want the iPhone!
anyone else out there get there computer start on a franklin ace?? it was the old macintosh clone back when people still made those...circa 1984. still had a tape drive using regular audio cassettes. that and an ibm clone xt086 with a ten meg hardrive. we upgraded to a 20 meg drive and i thought i would never fill it up!
it's hard to get too excited about this discussion since it's been so played out here and everywhere else, especially since this is a personal decision based on individual value judgments.
like others here i grew up with PCs, built my own PCs, upgraded PCs, still use a PC. but i also own a mac and generally prefer it for day-to-day use.
it's the true double-edged sword scenario. each pro is also a con depending on how you look at it and what's important to you.
as much fun as i had building PCs, eventually the H/W and S/W compatibility, configuration, and third-party quality control issues drove me f**king crazy.
sure, the look and feel of OSX appeals to me, but that's an aesthetic preference. performance-wise, my macs have been rock-solid. software installs easily. everything is plug 'n' play. on the other hand, apple's reputation for completely eliminating support for legacy products once a new version is released is downright criminal.
personally, i like being equally adept with both mac and pc. why should one need to be on one side of the fence or the other? there are cogent objective and subjective arguments in favor of each, so why not get the best of both worlds? find out what you prefer about each and sculpt your work(play)flow accordingly.
history -- you sound like you've already made up your mind to get a mac and are just looking for some affirmation. i say go for it! the only way to to know for sure is to live on both sides of the street for a while.
Great to hear, I have a powerbook now, and am thinking about upgrading when i start gradschool next fall. I was worried that i would have to switch back to a PC.
By the way, no one has mentioned the fact that there are some great only Mac programs out there. I have Apature, and will say that its one of the best Photography programs i have ever used, it does not replace photoshop either.
I bought a Macbook Pro recently. I'm a Mac user, but I had come to love using Rhino, and also found that I preferred Autocad over Vectorworks.
So I installed Boot Camp and WinXP, then Rhino and Autocad on the Windows partition. I don't use the Internet when I'm in Windows--I disabled wireless on that side--so no virus issues. I have an external USB drive where I share files.
I don't use Parallels because I need the 3d acceleration for Rhino. At some point Parallels will support my graphics card and OpenGL, then maybe I'll use it.
It actually makes me more productive when modeling knowing that I can't browse the web every ten minutes. I get email on my Blackberry.
If anyone has a secondary computer they use for music/movies/internet (anything other than graphics), I'd seriously recommend you check out Ubuntu, the best linux desktop operating system. It's free, along with the thousands of software apps that come with it.
Okay, bumping this thread for another Boot Camp partition question. In a perfect world, this is how I'd see my MacBook Pro configured:
Partition 1: This would be where the Mac OS and all the Mac-based applications live. Windows wouldn't be able to see or touch this partition.
Partition 2: This is where Windows XP and the Windows applications would live, comparible to the C: drive on a typical PC. Mac OS wouldn't see or touch this partition.
Partition 3: This is where all my data files would live. Windows would see this as the "My Documents" section, and Mac OS would see this as whatever the Mac counterpart to My Documents is. Both Mac OS and Windows would need to be able to read this partition. This partition may or may not be a separate external hard drive. Also, I would need some way of easily synching this partition with the data partition on my Dell desktop at home, which I have no plans to get rid of.
Does this setup make sense, and would Boot Camp allow me to do this?
Also: I understand Apple is launching a new version of Mac OS in the spring. I probably won't be able to afford a MacBook until then anyway, but just in case I'm able to buy one sooner, would it make sense to just wait until the new OS is out, or is it an easy upgrade? How expensive and painful is a typical Mac OS upgrade?
LiG -- Your set up seems to make logical sense. The external version of partition #3 is probably the one I would personally prefer since it would nullify the possibility of permissions issues (if any) between operating systems. May not be an issue though...
It's really up to you as to whether you want to wait or buy now. I don't see much difference since the new OS won't affect the price of the hardware. Only consideration I see is that the latest version of OS has been through the bug phase already and the new one will still have those bumps ahead of it.
btw, I've upgraded my OS a couple of times and it's been quick, easy, and transparent. Upgrade cost is usually anywhere from $75-$150 depending on the scope of the upgrade.
I would wait to buy one until you really need it. The longer you wait the better the hardware will be and the more you will get for your money. I know this is pretty obvious but sometimes the excitement of getting a new computer can make you just want to go get it.
I'll second what broccolijet said, OS upgrades are quick and esay and pretty affordable.
just make sure that the 3rd partition is FAT file format, not NTFS--OSX can't read NTFS right now (though who knows what bootcamp will be able to do once it's out of beta) unfortunately you'll be limited to 32GB, but for what will essentially be a swap space, 32GB should be plenty
switching to MAC from PC, your thoughts??
Ok i know this is a heated debate.
BUT.
i am in the market to buy a new computer and i am seriously thinking of getting the new MAC with the INtel processor. anyone recently made the same switch, how is it? running programs, rhino, autocad, 3d studio max, etc.?
I am sick of all the issues i have with my PC....!!
thanks for advice, by the way how much did you pay for yours?
H
you are not your computer
My PC died unexpectedly in June and I made the switch on a whim. I have absolutely no regrets. At first I was like, wait, I can't run AutoCad, and then I remembered that I could either A) run Bootcamp, or B) just not care because I couldn't actually remember the last time I HAD to use AutoCad at home.
I love my MacBook Pro. I paid maybe 10% less than the average person will because I got a discount through a friend. My only regret is that I didn't get the largest possible hard drive. Go for the 120 GB, definitely.
My roommate got a new MacBook Pro a few months after me and ran benchmarks against his PC.....his Mac laptop actually ran more than twice as fast as his PC did. Granted he got the fastest processor, but still. Not bad, eh?
I'll be in the same boat in a few months when I start shopping for a laptop to use for grad school. I'm seriously considering getting a MacBook Pro and then installing Parallels for my Windows-based applications (primarily AutoCAD).
Of course, this decision will be largely dependent upon the requirements of the particular school I end up going to, but does anybody else have any words of wisdom? What sort of academic discounts are available for Macs compared to PCs? For the amount of money I'd spend on a MacBook Pro I could get a top-of-the-line Dell laptop, so I'm still slightly undecided. I'm leaning heavily toward making the jump to Mac, though.
Any further developments in the longstanding rumor that Autodesk is developing a Mac version of AutoCAD?
I recently bought a Mac Pro and have been very happy with the hardware. If you intend to run Rhino, Autocad and Max you are still going to have to run Windows and you will still have all those issues.
Autodesk could care less about the Mac market. Acad will never run natively on a Mac.
If you need to run any 3D apps you'll have to use bootcamp rather than parallels. Parallels uses emulated graphics which will slow your 3D apps way down. If you are just using it for drafting in Acad then its fine.
Academic discounts are very easy to get with Mac, it seems they don't ask for your student ID when you purchase online.
yeah autodesk doesn't care about macs at all.
that's why we'll never have a maya universal binary....
oh wait... we got one last week... oops.
;-)
</end highly sarcastic post>
i don't understand what people do to their computers (PCs)... I've my ASUS laptop for 2.5 years. Windows has never crashed. Never had any hardware problem. Still runs fast, and can render with brazil all night long with its "single core" centrino processor.
make the switch if you have money.
Yeah, I've always thought that once you toss on Windows, all benefits of the Mac are gone. Don't you open yourself to the crashes and viruses? I thought all the benefits came in the OS. Cause you can get Core Duos on tons of PCs now.
Working on a mac was a terrible experiance. You must learn from your own mistakes, not mine. Granted it seemed to be smoother interface at first, it crashed more and was slower than any PC environment Ive been in. Plus they're totally gay.
One of the things that bothers me about Macs isn't so much the Mac, but rather the Mac user. The idea that because they are the underdog (as far as PCs), they are special. There was a time in history when Mac and Windows were struggling it out and Billy just did something better. Some say it was shady, but whatever happened, dude made a good move. Mac could have just as easily beat MS to the punch, but they didn't make the move and now have what 4% of the PC market? Would all the hipsters with their black painters caps cocked sideways whilst weaving their fixies through traffic use a Windows machine if Mac won?
Macs are great in that they work nicely because Mac only gives you a handful of hardware configurations. Maybe things will change now that they use PC parts, but I really like the flexibility I have to tweak and customize my PC with thousands of different components, shop prices. The WORST problem I ever had with my computer was a conflict between the videocard and my motherboard which wasn't too big of a problem. Oh, one time my harddrive shit, but it was IBM anyway, and I'm pretty sure they are used in both. But because of that flexibility I've extended the life of my old PC for about 8 years. My parents use it now, but if I left it with the original configuration, it would be useless 4 years ago. But it's still kickin and that is a big benefit in my eyes.
I guess maybe the lack of viruses on the Mac is good for looking at porn? All the 'iStuff' isn't a selling point for me because I use higher end stuff anyway, other than the one time I used iDVD I think, which was really easy. I've just never understood all the dancing around to rig up something that already works elsewhere when there is no monitary savings or real performance boost.
I've sold MACS and PCs for years, and my experience is that Apple products are 10 times more reliable than PC products (thats software, hardware, and support). You'll have issues with MACs still just as you have with PC. There are still DOAs with Macs, crashes, lemon computers, but the percentage compared to PCs is significantly low. It may take a few weeks to get used to the Mac interface, but it is certainly much more stable, customizable, and friendly than XP (haven't used Vista yet, so I couldn't compare). The Mac computers are also much more stylish and have many new hardware features built in that are really quite handy and functional (such as the remote and built in camera and mic which work quite well). They include Firewire 800 now and the laptops use the new pcexpress slot rather than the standard PCICMA that most laptops use (they're looking ahead to the new technology form).
The design and compatibility with fellow mac products is a plus, and Apple does more than any other computer company at pushing the envelope. Now I don't know what evilplatypus is talking about, but i have never seen two Macs of the same sex having intercourse with one another, so I'm pretty sure they're not gay.
And if you still need windows, it works flawlessly on a dual boot. Any driver issues should be released with the new Mac OS coming out shortly, but I haven't experienced them. Having just read reviews, Parallels for mac is a great replacement to Virtual PC. It's rather fast and stable. However, you will not got full CPU computing out of it, and it does not have the ability to run accelerated 3D graphics. There are also several hardware issues (scanner, printers, communication devices) that you may have trouble working with. However it does allow you to quickly switch to with out rebooting. If you do have issues, or you need that graphic power, Boot Camp will solve them.
I've been a PC guy for the last 15+ years, and I have now given up all my PC desktops in replace for my macbook pro.
congrats. now you can get a job at Starbucks, grow sideburns, and talk about noam chompsky while pouring lattes and sticking to the man.
I havent had my coffee and Im irritable. Nothing gets me mad like mac people. What do you all think you need to prove?
When using Boot Camp, how difficult is it to share files between your Mac-based apps and your Windows-based apps? I usually set up a seperate partition on the HD for all my data files. Is it possible to set up such a partition so that it can be used by both Mac and Windows apps?
Also, how well do Windows-based applications perform under Boot Camp compared to the same applications performing on comparible hardware on a PC?
FOG- what level of discount do you get through the 'academic discount'? I've looked at the academic section of the apple website, and it says lots of nice things, but nothing about the $$$ factor.
I killed my pc last month and am looking at getting a nice little 13.3" MacBook as a replacement.
evilp, I'm not looking to prove anything. history asked a question and we're trying to give him an answer. I have personally had a great experience with mine and was showing some enthusisam.
You should probably go get some coffee now.
LIG - Using Boot Camp is just like making your Mac a PC, 100%. There is no performance loss, in fact you may notice an increase since the Macs tend to have faster components than many computers out there (not to say there aren't PCs that are just as fast if not faster).
Rationalist- The discount factor depends on the price of the Mac. For the lower end laptops expect around 150 or so, higher ends can be 200+. Your university may also offer and additional discount. The warranties are also discounted.
use Apple's Education store to find your school and the price associated.
Living in Gin,
I remembered that you were poo-pooing the Mac at the Rodan event...
Welcome to the Dark Side ;-)
In order to find best deal, I would check Amazon as they don't charge sales tax. It'll be a few dollars cheaper than the Apple Store for Education because the Apple Store charges sales tax.
Also, I bought the last generation MacBook Pro at SmallDog. it was a refurb and was $1350. There was no sales tax. It has a video card.
Do NOT buy the cheaper MacBook because it has integrated graphics. It won't serve you well.
Just a few tips to save some money!
And let me find out about the partition question.
Cheers,
make
screw the mac - real G's use Linux anyways
MAC rules! AutoCAD and 3D Max work just as fast as on PC, you will get all the glitches and crashes on the PC side of the computer just as on regular PC,
but OS X will be as stable as always is.
did you mean G's or G'z? cause real G'z are idiots. get the mac, you won't regret it. Especially now that it can run windows natively. The mac is a more solid ship and nobody can argue that. However, in the end they both do the same thing.
platypus - Why are you so against the mac? it just seems a bit irrational and silly to me. You don't have to use one but if you know anything about computers, which I assume you do, then I don't see how you can be so opposed to them. They are not defined by there users, which is what you seem to dislike more than the machine itself. The fact of the matter is, they are built better and run more smoothly than a PC. Not to say that PC's are inferior but there is a lot of work you must continue to do in order for a PC to work well.
to share files between two sides you will have to store them in one of the PC's folder. PC drive can be reached from Mac side, while PC absolutely does not see Mac. mind- it's only beta version. besides- your clocks will be constantly screwed up on both sides.
Cp- ur right - I havent used mac in 3 years. But Every argument i see here is just false from the machine i was on.
OS was not as stable. Just as easily crashed - and when it did it was more disasterous. This is the most persistant myth going.
It was slow - running archicad - and regenerated terribly
Web pages didnt always display right
The jelly button interface was rather annoying
I just never saw these advantages to justify the cost - esp when a PC is like a kit of interchangeable parts. Parts that are competetively produced all over the world, spreading economic prosperity. My PC is fucking evolving, right there on my desk.
Steve Jobs and his "vision" are really the uber controling facist like entity the mac was claiming to be breaking in their famous 1985 commercial. The PC is about competition and economic reality versus propaganda marketing.
[url=http://www.wired.com/news/columns/0,70072-0.html
]BlowJobs[/url]
I switched two month ago.
Never regreted it.
Still have to use a PC at work so.
(Luckilly there are admins who help.)
But I never ever want to care about drivers and where to set the right mark to get some app. running in my free time.
that was the functional reason why I prefer the mac
the architectural reason: they just look nicer...
wow evilplatypus what a rant...
we are architects and so we like macs:
one design - one system.
if you think your PC is evolving on your desktop, this is as if you would think some macmansion :-) would evolve with the help of home depot and the skill of some do-it-yourself-guy into something like architecture...
if you say this is a facist way to think, I wonder how how you deal with your clients.
platypus - Your argument is very justified. The only problem though when so many people make parts for a PC is that a lot of the time you are gonna purchase something that has horribly written software and it will fail you or give you problems, unless you know what you are doing and can deal with it. You can upgrade a mac as well but there is no shopping for parts as you only have one option. I agree that this is a bit of a drawback as well as expensive, but the good thing about it is that it is guaranteed to work properly. I still like PC's for the very reasons you just described but for me the mac is a better choice.
urbanisto- dont even bring architecture into this
Apple has always been a company with an idenity crisis, right from the start. The problem is they don't know if they want to be a hardware company or a software company or a pherperial company.
No doubt they had a commanding lead in the software race. If Steve Jobs was a business man there would be no Microsoft today, none. Apple had the Mac OS running on intel chips way back before Windows 3.1 came out. They scrapped that program because hardware was in a fight with software. Internal babbling at a time when they could've focused on eliminating what today is the bar-none most influential software company in the world. Apple lost, it's too late.
Everyone knew the Mac OS was better, but it was limited to Apple's proprietary and expensive hardware. Bad move on their part, but Apple seems to like being a cult group.
Another terrible move was Job's selecting Sculley to take over as CEO in the 80's. What a former boss of PepsiCo knows about computers is beyond me. I expect similar bone headed moves in the future. Eventually all things get topped, even the Ipod will.
Those are examples why I'm not a Mac user. I don't doubt they are good machines. I just know they'll never be mainstream. Integrate them as much as you like, they are still way too propietary and expensive. I've used shitty shitty Dell, Compaq and HP computers running Windows with zero problems. Currently have a 6 year old Toshiba laptop running like a top. Why switch? I cannot find a reason to.
urbanisto- I don't see it that way. I see it as getting your home remodeled instead of tearing it down and building a new one. Why tear your house down so that you can have a bigger kitchen?/Why buy a new computer when all you need is more RAM and a better graphics card?
good point rationalist
and I myself used to upgrade and change bits abd pieces of my PC.
But as I simply don't have the time now or the nerves (I had somehow while at university), I spend the extra money.(that's true unfortunately)
But Iwould still doubt that many people change the graphics card on their laptop insted of buying an new Dell or whatever. (adding more RAM I've been told, is quite easy with a mac)
So everybody feel free to remodel your homes, I just hope the look of the "case" is worth the money you spend on the inside...
case modelling someone:
I just bought a macpro this past Friday, upgrading from my alienware laptop (which can not be upgraded) that I used during thesis. I look at switching as having the ability to work in both worlds and dealing with the best and worst each has to offer.
Some of the software (maxwell, PS, AI, IND) I use works on both platforms and I've seen benchmarks that show the PC version runs faster on a bootcamp MAC than it does on a PC with the same processors (maxwell in particular). Add to that the fact that it was actually going to be cheaper to buy a Mac instead of a similarly tricked out Dell or Boxx…I couldn't pass it up. I'm very impressed with how well thought out the design of the tower is (and the packaging for that matter)--even the insides look nice which can't alway be said for a PC…
Does any one have any experience modeling and rendering with Rhino on a one of the new Intel Macs using bootcamp?
why can't we all just be bi- and tri-lingual? i've always hated this argument, and i don't know why i'm reading it. it comes up every other week.
i run macs at work, pc's at home. i'll let my bosses float the $$ for the nice, cushy iMac's but for what i need to do at home, my toshiba is plenty good. and when i get around to it, i'll get a beater pc with some bomb-a$$ new components in it and run it as my home based web-server using linux/apache/etc. and get sick run-time.
though i will say evilp, webpages not displaying correctly on a mac circa 2003 has way more to do with bad developers not adhering to good web standards and the use of cascading style sheets, etc etc, than it did with the mac. imho.
and c'mon, you know you want the iPhone!
anyone else out there get there computer start on a franklin ace?? it was the old macintosh clone back when people still made those...circa 1984. still had a tape drive using regular audio cassettes. that and an ibm clone xt086 with a ten meg hardrive. we upgraded to a 20 meg drive and i thought i would never fill it up!
-ml
good points all around.
it's hard to get too excited about this discussion since it's been so played out here and everywhere else, especially since this is a personal decision based on individual value judgments.
like others here i grew up with PCs, built my own PCs, upgraded PCs, still use a PC. but i also own a mac and generally prefer it for day-to-day use.
it's the true double-edged sword scenario. each pro is also a con depending on how you look at it and what's important to you.
as much fun as i had building PCs, eventually the H/W and S/W compatibility, configuration, and third-party quality control issues drove me f**king crazy.
sure, the look and feel of OSX appeals to me, but that's an aesthetic preference. performance-wise, my macs have been rock-solid. software installs easily. everything is plug 'n' play. on the other hand, apple's reputation for completely eliminating support for legacy products once a new version is released is downright criminal.
personally, i like being equally adept with both mac and pc. why should one need to be on one side of the fence or the other? there are cogent objective and subjective arguments in favor of each, so why not get the best of both worlds? find out what you prefer about each and sculpt your work(play)flow accordingly.
history -- you sound like you've already made up your mind to get a mac and are just looking for some affirmation. i say go for it! the only way to to know for sure is to live on both sides of the street for a while.
mctwist6576-
I model and render with Rhino on my Mac Pro using Bootcamp and it's a delight. no issues what-so-ever.
And it is wicked, wicked fast. Renderings that I used to have to let go overnight are done within the hour.
Like what?
I cannot think of anything.
The emulation program that runs PPC programs on MacIntel hardware is completely invisible and amazing!!! And fast! You don't know it's even there!
And it's the second time that Apple has made the transition from on chip architecture to another.
It's a tool.
Enjoy your tools! Whatever they are
It's key when you're plugged into it all day...
Cheers!
Great to hear, I have a powerbook now, and am thinking about upgrading when i start gradschool next fall. I was worried that i would have to switch back to a PC.
By the way, no one has mentioned the fact that there are some great only Mac programs out there. I have Apature, and will say that its one of the best Photography programs i have ever used, it does not replace photoshop either.
Check out Omni group Software...
They have a program called OmniOutliner Pro that's brilliant when putting together a brief for a project:
http://www.omnigroup.com/
http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnioutliner/
The software works as good as it looks!
stick your iphone up your ass
I bought a Macbook Pro recently. I'm a Mac user, but I had come to love using Rhino, and also found that I preferred Autocad over Vectorworks.
So I installed Boot Camp and WinXP, then Rhino and Autocad on the Windows partition. I don't use the Internet when I'm in Windows--I disabled wireless on that side--so no virus issues. I have an external USB drive where I share files.
I don't use Parallels because I need the 3d acceleration for Rhino. At some point Parallels will support my graphics card and OpenGL, then maybe I'll use it.
It actually makes me more productive when modeling knowing that I can't browse the web every ten minutes. I get email on my Blackberry.
Works like a charm!
Graham
If anyone has a secondary computer they use for music/movies/internet (anything other than graphics), I'd seriously recommend you check out Ubuntu, the best linux desktop operating system. It's free, along with the thousands of software apps that come with it.
I agree about ubuntu--I've got an old gateway P3 800 running it and it works like a charm.
Recently joined the Mac camp and love it. I'm now trying to figure out how to install OX on my PC. ha.
Okay, bumping this thread for another Boot Camp partition question. In a perfect world, this is how I'd see my MacBook Pro configured:
Partition 1: This would be where the Mac OS and all the Mac-based applications live. Windows wouldn't be able to see or touch this partition.
Partition 2: This is where Windows XP and the Windows applications would live, comparible to the C: drive on a typical PC. Mac OS wouldn't see or touch this partition.
Partition 3: This is where all my data files would live. Windows would see this as the "My Documents" section, and Mac OS would see this as whatever the Mac counterpart to My Documents is. Both Mac OS and Windows would need to be able to read this partition. This partition may or may not be a separate external hard drive. Also, I would need some way of easily synching this partition with the data partition on my Dell desktop at home, which I have no plans to get rid of.
Does this setup make sense, and would Boot Camp allow me to do this?
Also: I understand Apple is launching a new version of Mac OS in the spring. I probably won't be able to afford a MacBook until then anyway, but just in case I'm able to buy one sooner, would it make sense to just wait until the new OS is out, or is it an easy upgrade? How expensive and painful is a typical Mac OS upgrade?
Thanks...
LiG -- Your set up seems to make logical sense. The external version of partition #3 is probably the one I would personally prefer since it would nullify the possibility of permissions issues (if any) between operating systems. May not be an issue though...
It's really up to you as to whether you want to wait or buy now. I don't see much difference since the new OS won't affect the price of the hardware. Only consideration I see is that the latest version of OS has been through the bug phase already and the new one will still have those bumps ahead of it.
btw, I've upgraded my OS a couple of times and it's been quick, easy, and transparent. Upgrade cost is usually anywhere from $75-$150 depending on the scope of the upgrade.
I would wait to buy one until you really need it. The longer you wait the better the hardware will be and the more you will get for your money. I know this is pretty obvious but sometimes the excitement of getting a new computer can make you just want to go get it.
I'll second what broccolijet said, OS upgrades are quick and esay and pretty affordable.
just make sure that the 3rd partition is FAT file format, not NTFS--OSX can't read NTFS right now (though who knows what bootcamp will be able to do once it's out of beta) unfortunately you'll be limited to 32GB, but for what will essentially be a swap space, 32GB should be plenty
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